118 replies to this topic

[Tomas60]

http://journals.camb...nline&aid=73851

It seems that tobacco is a MAO inhibitor but not nicotine. I mean that tobacco has other MAOI substance(s), while Nicotine is not MAOI.
That explains why people can use Nicotine, but I wonder if anybody smokes cigarettes with suni...

[dereknel]

what is in tobacco that causes the mao inhibitor?

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Harman and Norharman.

[Potent]

I get massively massively depressed with 10 mg oral dose of Sunifiram, after about 4 hours, when it's stimulatory effects have worn off. It's funny because my depressive habits surface for no reason - overeating, no motivation, don't even want to get up and move. Reminds me of the depression post stimulant binge. I am not depressed currently, and it always happens after a Suni dose. To the point where if Sunifiram was taken, I would have to dose all day just to mitigate depression. Tossed Suni. I'm surprised more people don't find depression as a side effect.

[xsiv1]

I get massively massively depressed with 10 mg oral dose of Sunifiram, after about 4 hours, when it's stimulatory effects have worn off. It's funny because my depressive habits surface for no reason - overeating, no motivation, don't even want to get up and move. Reminds me of the depression post stimulant binge. I am not depressed currently, and it always happens after a Suni dose. To the point where if Sunifiram was taken, I would have to dose all day just to mitigate depression. Tossed Suni. I'm surprised more people don't find depression as a side effect.

Sounds like a symptom of excess Acetylcholine. Too much is known to play a significant role in depression.

[owtsgmi]

I get massively massively depressed with 10 mg oral dose of Sunifiram, after about 4 hours, when it's stimulatory effects have worn off. It's funny because my depressive habits surface for no reason - overeating, no motivation, don't even want to get up and move. Reminds me of the depression post stimulant binge. I am not depressed currently, and it always happens after a Suni dose. To the point where if Sunifiram was taken, I would have to dose all day just to mitigate depression. Tossed Suni. I'm surprised more people don't find depression as a side effect.

Sounds like a symptom of excess Acetylcholine. Too much is known to play a significant role in depression.

Seems like it would be too little acetylcholine. I was under the impression (no sources) that sunifiram burned through acetylcholine. Is this not the case?

[xsiv1]

I get massively massively depressed with 10 mg oral dose of Sunifiram, after about 4 hours, when it's stimulatory effects have worn off. It's funny because my depressive habits surface for no reason - overeating, no motivation, don't even want to get up and move. Reminds me of the depression post stimulant binge. I am not depressed currently, and it always happens after a Suni dose. To the point where if Sunifiram was taken, I would have to dose all day just to mitigate depression. Tossed Suni. I'm surprised more people don't find depression as a side effect.

Sounds like a symptom of excess Acetylcholine. Too much is known to play a significant role in depression.

Seems like it would be too little acetylcholine. I was under the impression (no sources) that sunifiram burned through acetylcholine. Is this not the case?

Not positive but that very debate is still occurring with regular racetams...that it burns through it so that choline supplementation is a necessity. Others, like myself, respond better to the racetams without supplementing each dose with a choline source. In fact, lately, I've never exceeded 300mgs of CDP per day but I do get at least 3 grams of EFAs per day. I'm not exactly sure what's working for me here lol. When I was using a choline source more often, it just clouded things up more and I felt fatigued later in the afternoon.

As an aside, too much glutamate?

[owtsgmi]

I get massively massively depressed with 10 mg oral dose of Sunifiram, after about 4 hours, when it's stimulatory effects have worn off. It's funny because my depressive habits surface for no reason - overeating, no motivation, don't even want to get up and move. Reminds me of the depression post stimulant binge. I am not depressed currently, and it always happens after a Suni dose. To the point where if Sunifiram was taken, I would have to dose all day just to mitigate depression. Tossed Suni. I'm surprised more people don't find depression as a side effect.

Sounds like a symptom of excess Acetylcholine. Too much is known to play a significant role in depression.

Seems like it would be too little acetylcholine. I was under the impression (no sources) that sunifiram burned through acetylcholine. Is this not the case?

Not positive but that very debate is still occurring with regular racetams...that it burns through it so that choline supplementation is a necessity. Others, like myself, respond better to the racetams without supplementing each dose with a choline source. In fact, lately, I've never exceeded 300mgs of CDP per day but I do get at least 3 grams of EFAs per day. I'm not exactly sure what's working for me here lol. When I was using a choline source more often, it just clouded things up more and I felt fatigued later in the afternoon.

As an aside, too much glutamate?

Yes, I can totally relate to your reasoning. I have taken piracetam for years, but only needed choline supplementation in the beginning several months. I began getting the neck tightness feeling, etc. with too much choline. However, I noticed with the newer noots like sunifiram and nsi-189, supplementing with a little alpha-gpc and/or Phosphatidylcholine is having a positive effect (in the fact that is preventing negative effects, mainly brain fog, I am seeing after a several days usage of aforementioned noots). I'd love to hear other opinions/andecdotes regarding this. Then, again... glutamatergic imbalances could cause brain fog as well.

Edited by owtsgmi, 10 September 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[xsiv1]

I'm just wondering what could be causing the sudden depressive symptoms. Excessive glutamate (as opposed to Gaba) would and could definitely manifest itself as anxiety, but "massively massively depressed". I'm almost wondering if depression wasn't there to begin with and Suni has somehow exacerbated it. I've rarely heard a compound do that except for the likes of MDMA or Cocaine where a person feels very depressed after a binge. I'm sure there's other substances than can cause the blues for someone but it's tough to hear of a supposed nootropic leading to that kind of adverse effect. I wouldn't touch the stuff with a ten foot pole ever again Potent if you know for sure it's Suni causing this to happen to you.

[Nobrainer]

Sunifiram zombifies me. It makes me lethargic and a little sad, otherwise not feeling much at all. Not recommended for a social dinner. I used it for about 5 days and it did not change except for developing a stuffed ears feeling with some tinnitus and then I quit taking it.

Amitriptyline has a similar effect on me, but without the ear symptoms. Choline Bitartrate or Pramiracetam on their own cause the ear symptoms within an hour after taking it and don't zombify me.

I am rem-sleep deprived and have a bunch of symptoms that seem to be related to both low and high ACh, at the same time. Then I did some reading on rem-sleep and ACh and found that it affects the distribution of ACh in the brain, increasing in one area while decreasing in another.


Maybe this is why different racetams have different effects, they may change the general level, but more importantly affect the distribution of Ach, depending on what particular compound you take. Sunifiram may actually both increase and decrease ACh at the same time.

[xsiv1]

Anyone from Canada want to buy some unopened and sealed Suni? lol. At this point, I don't even want to try it and I've had it for nearly a month. I've read enough anecdotal reports to convince me to just stay away from it..at least until it's been studied in humans. It will likely never go through any more clinical testing much less in humans though. I've grown attached to my Piracetam, Aniracetam & Noopept along with the occasional or sporadic use of phenylpiracetam. I do have Oxiracetam and Pramiracetam on hand but haven't had much time to read up on what it stacks well with. I certainly don't want to be any more introverted at work.

[baronjpetor]

Suni is quite tricky for me. Overall, when I'm tired, Suni (10mg) makes me even more tired, a bit depressed and kinda... zombified, as nobrainer coined it. However, when I feel good, Suni gives me some extra energy and a pretty strong sense of self confidence. I stacked it with 200mg Modafinil today and it feels great. Excellent focus, verbal skills and mood. Great stack for my crossfit training too.

[xsiv1]

Suni is quite tricky for me. Overall, when I'm tired, Suni (10mg) makes me even more tired, a bit depressed and kinda... zombified, as nobrainer coined it. However, when I feel good, Suni gives me some extra energy and a pretty strong sense of self confidence. I stacked it with 200mg Modafinil today and it feels great. Excellent focus, verbal skills and mood. Great stack for my crossfit training too.

Oh great. Now you say this and it's piqued my curiosity again. Although 200mgs may be slightly high for me, I do like the effect of "extra energy and a pretty strong sense of self confidence" not to mention that you've found it helpful with your training. I've only done a few crossfit classes after the initial ramp up sessions but I'm training in a similar albeit less intense way at my home gym. The thing I'm worried about is this tired, depressive state. Seems like a crap-shoot element best used sporadically.

[baronjpetor]

Suni is quite tricky for me. Overall, when I'm tired, Suni (10mg) makes me even more tired, a bit depressed and kinda... zombified, as nobrainer coined it. However, when I feel good, Suni gives me some extra energy and a pretty strong sense of self confidence. I stacked it with 200mg Modafinil today and it feels great. Excellent focus, verbal skills and mood. Great stack for my crossfit training too.

Oh great. Now you say this and it's piqued my curiosity again. Although 200mgs may be slightly high for me, I do like the effect of "extra energy and a pretty strong sense of self confidence" not to mention that you've found it helpful with your training. I've only done a few crossfit classes after the initial ramp up sessions but I'm training in a similar albeit less intense way at my home gym. The thing I'm worried about is this tired, depressive state. Seems like a crap-shoot element best used sporadically.

Well, to be honest it's the first time I try this stack, so I won't draw any conclusions yet. I'll try it again and let you know how that works.
From my first experiments with Suni, I came to the conclusion that it's not good for me to use it on a daily basis : only when I already feel in a good overall state (after a good night's rest for example) and no more than once a week.
When Suni works, it makes me more confident and more agressive (in a good way : it's not irritability but an overall feeling of "power". It kinda makes me feel more "alpha" :-)
I did not notice any other nootropic effects yet.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Friend reported headaches on a single dose of 16mg. She stopped taking it, and headache did not persist.

[Climactic]

I stacked it with 200mg Modafinil

Thanks for the report. Were you taking any other neurological drugs in addition to sunifiram and modafinil?

[baronjpetor]

I stacked it with 200mg Modafinil

Thanks for the report. Were you taking any other neurological drugs in addition to sunifiram and modafinil?

Don't know if we can speak of neurological drugs but:
-Caffeine (1 expresso ~80mg)
-300 mg N-acetylcysteine (which I take almost daily, sometimes at higher doses)
-One of my pre workout stacks (6mg citrulline malate + 3mg beta alanine)

Last night, my sleep was not very good (slept only 6 hours with annoying dreams and I woke up once in the middle of the night).
Moda alone doesn't lower my sleep quality the way this stack does.

Off topic but the day before, I had incredible results in terms of concentration and focus with another "exotic" combination : 300mg phenylpiracetam in the morning and 2.5 grams Kratom (Maeng Da) in the afternoon : I litterally could not stop working.

[Climactic]

I stacked it with 200mg Modafinil

Thanks for the report. Were you taking any other neurological drugs in addition to sunifiram and modafinil?

Don't know if we can speak of neurological drugs but:
-Caffeine (1 expresso ~80mg)
-300 mg N-acetylcysteine (which I take almost daily, sometimes at higher doses)
-One of my pre workout stacks (6mg citrulline malate + 3mg beta alanine)

Last night, my sleep was not very good (slept only 6 hours with annoying dreams and I woke up once in the middle of the night).
Moda alone doesn't lower my sleep quality the way this stack does.

Off topic but the day before, I had incredible results in terms of concentration and focus with another "exotic" combination : 300mg phenylpiracetam in the morning and 2.5 grams Kratom (Maeng Da) in the afternoon : I litterally could not stop working.

Note that it's the sunifiram+modafinil+phenylpiracetam combination that has screwed me up (when taken approximately together) with chronic and persistent temple headaches. It's good that it didn't do this to you.

[Tomas60]

Ok, case closed. It was lack of choline. I took 350mg phosphatidylcholine and 6mg sunifiram. No headache. The effect is very subtle, though. After 2 hours 10mg suni, 30mg noopept. Very subtle. I'm surprised.

[Murraythemailman]

Good to see someone else taking noots and kratom. I've been doing this for months and was afraid I would be shunned by the community. I'm curious as to how many other members are taking kratom?

[Stormy]

I've tried kratom before, and it proved to be an excellent sleep aid, but not much else. Noots and brain-related stuff I was taking regularly at the time: oxiracetam, pramiracetam, ginkgo, and fish oil.

[Murraythemailman]

I've been taking piracetam aniracetam sulbutiamine alpha gpc multi vitamin and fish oil with the use of kratom for a month or two. Kratom does wonders for anxiety due to stressful job. Kratom seems counterproductive to brain health but I have my reasons.

[andrea23]

I took sunifiram 3 months ago and now is like i'm "living" 6 years ago, hard to explain.. the old memories become very vivid, too vivid, On what does it depend? is it reversible?

[Climactic]

I took sunifiram 3 months ago and now is like i'm "living" 6 years ago, hard to explain.. the old memories become very vivid, too vivid, On what does it depend? is it reversible?

Chronic use of long-acting gabaergics or NMDAr antagonists just might be able to reverse it, but I don't know if you really need to reverse it. If that doesn't help, add a chronic long-acting anticholinergic. My suggestion is to just give it time and let your current state normalize.

Edited by Climactic, 30 September 2013 - 05:55 PM.

[andrea23]

I took sunifiram 3 months ago and now is like i'm "living" 6 years ago, hard to explain.. the old memories become very vivid, too vivid, On what does it depend? is it reversible?

Chronic use of long-acting gabaergics or NMDAr antagonists just might be able to reverse it, but I don't know if you really need to reverse it. If that doesn't help, add a chronic long-acting anticholinergic. My suggestion is to just give it time and let your current state normalize.

i got also heavy depressed 2 months ago, is the sunifiram? examples long-acting gabaergics or NMDAr antagonists?

.. maybe is better stop joking with this not tested substances :/

Edited by andrea23, 30 September 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[Climactic]

I took sunifiram 3 months ago and now is like i'm "living" 6 years ago, hard to explain.. the old memories become very vivid, too vivid, On what does it depend? is it reversible?

Chronic use of long-acting gabaergics or NMDAr antagonists just might be able to reverse it, but I don't know if you really need to reverse it. If that doesn't help, add a chronic long-acting anticholinergic. My suggestion is to just give it time and let your current state normalize.

i got also heavy depressed 2 months ago, is the sunifiram? examples long-acting gabaergics or NMDAr antagonists?

.. maybe is better stop joking with this not tested substances :/

It is indeed better to stop taking untested (untrialed) substances such as sunifiram. Having said that, there are various tested and approved long-acting gabaergics and NMDAr antagonists in the market. You might want one which has a side effect of memory loss, and there should exist more than one such drug. I don't know which one to name for you.

NMDA agonism, such as by sunifiram, can lead to potentiation of anxiety, and this might be depotentiated with an antagonist such as memantine. Memantine, however, is much more complicated than that.

You should probably try aerobic+unaerobic exercise five times a week before starting any new drug. It fixes many problems.

Edited by Climactic, 30 September 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[andrea23]

i will try that, thanks

[Babychris]

Everytime I take stuff it make me a bit lethargic, fogged and all the stuff. It makes me over everything yawn a lot.
This happens with the CILTEP Stack, and most of nootropics. At Dual-N back I'm still very good for position but when I take something, it become stupid and can't retain letters. Could this help to explain this phenomenon ?

[8bitmore]

Everytime I take stuff it make me a bit lethargic, fogged and all the stuff. It makes me over everything yawn a lot.
This happens with the CILTEP Stack, and most of nootropics. At Dual-N back I'm still very good for position but when I take something, it become stupid and can't retain letters. Could this help to explain this phenomenon ?

If one of your fundamental axis' are out of wack (i.e. thyroid, testosterone or insulin) then this may well be a part reason - another point could be that your system is just very subtly tuned (i.e. you have good diet and good emotional self-development going on) and that nootropics are too "rough" measures to really give you any meaningful boost (I'm sure you have a sense whether its the one or the other).

[Babychris]

I have I guess too much testosterone (I'm lebanese, and to say the least, my bear is thick haha) it could be thyroid since I'm very prone to depression and anxiety, insulin is possible too since I crave sometimes sugar but I don't have diabete.

MMmm I'm pretty sure I have a very unique system since most people who use to see me was impressed, because I had this "thing", I had so much intensity in my thought and my "waves" that people feels it. But since I take noot and had some traumatising events i'm an other one (or I feel like) and everything I take, eat potentially could affect strongly my perception.
I guess that my best bet is to stop most of noots, but I'm kind of addict to be H lol.