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Pycnogenol: Stiff neck gone!

pycnogenol stiff neck joints muscles muscle joint

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#1 NFP

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:28 PM


So I tried Pycnogenol today, 100mg of the Source Natural Brand, and my neck feels brand new! After years of having my neck massaged and stretched on a constant basis, you cant believe how much of a relief this is. My neck would be constantly stiff and would crack everytime i rotated my head. After I took Pycnogenol i slowly started to feel my neck loosen up. it feels like my necks been lubricated and is working perfectly now! I rotate my head and no cracks! Absolutely no stiffness! Has anyone else noticed any similar benefits from taking it?

Edited by mastermind57, 27 May 2013 - 05:38 PM.


#2 nameless

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 07:05 PM

You got that from a single dose? Using it for a couple of weeks would make more sense than a single dosing showing any real benefit.

I used to use pycnogenol for allergies/asthma, but ended up stopping primarily because the stuff is so expensive... that, and the benefit was relatively minor. Healthy Origins (from iHerb) was the most cost effective brand back when I used it -- just mentioning it, if the Source Natural version is pricey and you eventually need to restock.



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#3 NFP

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 08:25 PM

Yeah, I noticed this on my first dose on a empty stomach. It cost me $10 dollars for 30 50MG tablets on amazon. Thanks for suggestion. I looked on iHerb and the Healthy Origins brand is about $6 dollars cheaper than the Natural Sources Brand on Amazon (both 60 100MG tablets), BUT amazon offers free 2 day shipping so it pretty much evens the cost out.

in my opinion its a bargain if its ridding me of my stiff neck for about a dollar a day.

Edited by mastermind57, 27 May 2013 - 08:27 PM.


#4 blood

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:02 PM

I get a similar effect from Pycnogenol - my entire body feels more limber and flexible, somehow. It happens within 30 min of taking a dose.

I found that a particular grape seed extract - "mega-natural bp" - which is marketed as something you take for high blood pressure, has an even stronger effect than pycnogenol in this regard. 30 min after my first dose, a delicious sensation came over my body... an urge to stretch, and a feeling of flexibility in my joints... I found myself sitting cross-legged on the floor... something I couldn't remember doing since I was a kid. Other grape seed extracts don't do this for me - only the mega-natural bp product.

#5 NFP

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:47 PM

I get a similar effect from Pycnogenol - my entire body feels more limber and flexible, somehow. It happens within 30 min of taking a dose.

I found that a particular grape seed extract - "mega-natural bp" - which is marketed as something you take for high blood pressure, has an even stronger effect than pycnogenol in this regard. 30 min after my first dose, a delicious sensation came over my body... an urge to stretch, and a feeling of flexibility in my joints... I found myself sitting cross-legged on the floor... something I couldn't remember doing since I was a kid. Other grape seed extracts don't do this for me - only the mega-natural bp product.


have you tried taking both at the same time?

#6 niner

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:39 AM

Wow, I wish my pycnogenol worked that well! What sorts of pharmaceutical anti-inflammatories have you tried? Any remotely similar results?

Pycnogenol is insanely expensive as supplements go. It's a "name brand" pine bark extract, and there are a number of generic pine bark extracts that don't cost much. I've used both pycno and generic pine bark extract from Swanson. I've not done a careful comparison between the two, but my sense is that the cheap stuff also works. It wouldn't surprise me if pycno was a little more potent, but you can always take more of the cheap stuff.

#7 NFP

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:52 AM

The closest thing Ive taken to a anti inflammatory is Quercetin but it had no noticeable effect on me. I didnt take Pycnogenol for inflammatory purposes, I didnt even know it was an anti inflammatory. I bought it for cognitive benefits. I do feel more alert but maybe its just because my neck feels so damn good.

#8 blood

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:34 AM

I get a similar effect from Pycnogenol - my entire body feels more limber and flexible, somehow. It happens within 30 min of taking a dose.

I found that a particular grape seed extract - "mega-natural bp" - which is marketed as something you take for high blood pressure, has an even stronger effect than pycnogenol in this regard. 30 min after my first dose, a delicious sensation came over my body... an urge to stretch, and a feeling of flexibility in my joints... I found myself sitting cross-legged on the floor... something I couldn't remember doing since I was a kid. Other grape seed extracts don't do this for me - only the mega-natural bp product.


have you tried taking both at the same time?


I have taken it at the same time as the meganatural BP. I'm not entirely certain that it adds anything. Then again, I haven't gone above 100 mg of pycnogenol at a time due to it's expense.

Currently I take
- morning - 300 mg of the meganatural BP grape seed extract (Healthy Origins)
- afternoon - 100 mg pycnogenol (Healthy Origins)
- before bed - 400 mg "powergrape" grape seed extract (Swansons)

I also have generic grape seed extract and pine bark extract, from BAC, which I occasionally mix into a polyphenol drink (with pomegranate juice, and chilled red bush tea and green tea).

Finally, I have some "leucoselect" grape seed phytosome (Swansons) - which I haven't tried yet.

My favorite of all of these is the meganatural BP. It seems to have a certain magic, that the others don't have. On the polyphenolics.com web site, the manufacturer says it has "a higher percentage of lower molecular weight polyphenols" than other grape seed extracts. Fortunately, it's not too expensive.

Supposedly pycnogenol also has a high proportion of low molecular weight polyphenols. Pycnogenol is too expensive for my tastes and budget. Once my current bottle runs out, I don't think I will keep taking it.

Powergrape is supposedly clinically proven to improve athletic endurance at 400 mg/day. I haven't been jogging recently & so haven't been able to check for improvements in endurance.

I thought your comment about being more alert was interesting. I've noticed this as well (with both pycnogenol, and grape seed extracts - more alertness, and mental stamina). I'm surprised they aren't marketed as a "nootropic".

Edited by blood, 28 May 2013 - 08:39 AM.


#9 nameless

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:03 AM

Wow, I wish my pycnogenol worked that well! What sorts of pharmaceutical anti-inflammatories have you tried? Any remotely similar results?

Pycnogenol is insanely expensive as supplements go. It's a "name brand" pine bark extract, and there are a number of generic pine bark extracts that don't cost much. I've used both pycno and generic pine bark extract from Swanson. I've not done a careful comparison between the two, but my sense is that the cheap stuff also works. It wouldn't surprise me if pycno was a little more potent, but you can always take more of the cheap stuff.


Yeah, when I took it I never noticed anything that dramatic. And especially not after a single dose.

Generic pine barks scare me... it's usually not even the same species of pine tree as pycnogenol and quite often sourced from China. And their air quality isn't exactly known for being the greatest.

I've also tried polphenolics grapeseed (same source as meganaturals BP, although not the BP branded variety) and never really noticed anything regarding joint flexibility. When I did take pycnogenol I noticed my asthma was slightly better, and perhaps I was more alert ... which could have been related to improved breathing. But it wasn't a major improvement, if an improvement at all (I don't rule out coincidence). One day I may try it again, if I could ever find it cheaper. Or I guess I could try a baby dose at 30mg, which is about the only size dose that is affordable -- but I expect it's too low an amount to do much of anything.

#10 blood

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:28 AM

Flexibility seems to be linked to arterial health in some way. Poor flexibility appears to be a sign of poor arterial/ cardiovascular heath. Also, stretching exercises seem to improve arterial health. Perhaps the relationship works in reverse - maybe substances that improve the status of capillaries (strengthen them, cause them to dilate) improve flexibility.

Regarding Polyphenolics products, I don't think their "meganatural gold" is as good as the BP product. They separate out the precious low molecular weight polyphenols (which appear to be the best absorbed and have the most influence on capillary health) and put most of them in the BP product.


http://ajpheart.phys...97/4/H1314.full

Poor trunk flexibility is associated with arterial stiffening

Kenta Yamamoto1,2,3, Hiroshi Kawano2, Yuko Gando2, Motoyuki Iemitsu5, Haruka Murakami1, Kiyoshi Sanada2,4, Michiya Tanimoto1, Yumi Ohmori1, Mitsuru Higuchi1, Izumi Tabata1, and Motohiko Miyachi1

Submitted 16 January 2009. accepted in final form 3 August 2009.

Abstract

Flexibility is one of the components of physical fitness as well as cardiorespiratory fitness and muscular strength and endurance. Flexibility has long been considered a major component in the preventive treatment of musculotendinous strains. The present study investigated a new aspect of flexibility. Using a cross-sectional study design, we tested the hypothesis that a less flexible body would have arterial stiffening. A total of 526 adults, 20 to 39 yr of age (young), 40 to 59 yr of age (middle-aged), and 60 to 83 yr of age (older), participated in this study. Subjects in each age category were divided into either poor- or high-flexibility groups on the basis of a sit-and-reach test. Arterial stiffness was assessed by brachial-ankle pulse wave velocity (baPWV). Two-way ANOVA indicated a significant interaction between age and flexibility in determining baPWV (P < 0.01). In middle-aged and older subjects, baPWV was higher in poor-flexibility than in high-flexibility groups (middle-aged, 1,260 ± 141 vs. 1,200 ± 124 cm/s, P < 0.01; and older, 1,485 ± 224 vs. 1,384 ± 199 cm/s, P < 0.01). In young subjects, there was no significant difference between the two flexibility groups. A stepwise multiple-regression analysis (n = 316) revealed that among the components of fitness (cardiorespiratory fitness, muscular strength, and flexibility) and age, all components and age were independent correlates of baPWV. These findings suggest that flexibility may be a predictor of arterial stiffening, independent of other components of fitness.


http://www.wellnessr...ial_stiffening/

From press release:

How far you can reach beyond your toes from a sitting position – normally used to define the flexibility of a person’s body – may be an indicator of how stiff your arteries are.

A study in the American Journal of Physiology has found that, among people 40 years old and older, performance on the sit-and-reach test could be used to assess the flexibility of the arteries. Because arterial stiffness often precedes cardiovascular disease, the results suggest that this simple test could become a quick measure of an individual’s risk for early mortality from heart attack or stroke.

“Our findings have potentially important clinical implications because trunk flexibility can be easily evaluated,” said one of the authors, Kenta Yamamoto. “This simple test might help to prevent age-related arterial stiffening.”

It is not known why arterial flexibility would be related to the flexibility of the body in middle age and older people. But the authors say that one possibility is that stretching exercises may set into motion physiological reactions that slow down age-related arterial stiffening.

Arteries should be elastic

Healthy blood vessels are elastic, and elasticity helps to moderate blood pressure. Arterial stiffness increases with age and is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease and death. Previous studies have established that physical fitness can delay age-related arterial stiffness, although exactly how that happens is not understood. The authors noted that people who keep themselves in shape often have a more flexible body, and they hypothesized that a flexible body could be a quick way to determine arterial flexibility.

The researchers studied 526 healthy, non-smoking adults, 20 to 83 years old, with a body mass index of less than 30. They wanted to see whether flexibility of the trunk, as measured with the sit and reach test, is associated with arterial stiffness. The researchers divided the participants into three age groups:

•young (20-39 years old)
•middle aged (40-59 years old)
•older (60-83 years old)

The researchers asked participants to perform a sit-and-reach test. The volunteers sat on the floor, back against the wall, legs straight. They slowly reached their arms forward by bending at the waist. Based on how far they could reach, the researchers classified the participants as either poor- or high-flexibility.

The researchers also measured blood pressure and the speed of a pulse of blood as it flowed through the body. They measured how long the pulse takes to travel between the arm and the ankle and between the neck and the leg. They also measured aortic pressure in some participants and tested the participants for cardiorespiratory fitness, muscular strength and endurance.

The study found that trunk flexibility was a good predictor of artery stiffness among middle age and older participants, but not among the younger group. In middle age and older participants, they also found that systolic blood pressure (the peak pressure that occurs as the heart contracts) was higher in poor-flexibility than in high-flexibility groups.

What’s happening?

Why would the flexibility of the body be a good indicator of arterial stiffness? In the study, the authors speculate on why this would be. One possibility is that there is a cause and effect: the stretching exercises that provide flexibility to the body may also slow the age-related stiffening of the arteries. The study found that arterial stiffness among middle age and older people was associated with trunk flexibility but was independent of muscle strength and cardiorespiratory fitness (as measured by performance on an exercycle). In addition, they cited another recent study that found that middle age and older adults who began a regular stretch exercise program significantly improved the flexibility of their carotids, a major artery found in the neck.

“Together with our results, these findings suggest a possibility that improving flexibility induced by the stretching exercise may be capable of modifying age-related arterial stiffening in middle-aged and older adults,” Dr. Yamamoto said. “We believe that flexibility exercise, such as stretching, yoga and Pilates, should be integrated as a new recommendation into the known cardiovascular benefits of regular exercise.”

However, there are other possibilities as to why bodily flexibility should be an indicator of arterial stiffness. One possibility is that it is related to the higher blood pressure that was seen in the poor flexibility group. Another possibility is that the amount of collagen and elastin, which makes the muscles flexible, also makes the arteries flexible. Further research is needed to understand whether there is a cause-effect relationship between flexibility and arterial stiffness, they said.


Edited by blood, 30 May 2013 - 02:20 AM.


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#11 niner

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:00 AM

The closest thing Ive taken to a anti inflammatory is Quercetin but it had no noticeable effect on me. I didnt take Pycnogenol for inflammatory purposes, I didnt even know it was an anti inflammatory. I bought it for cognitive benefits. I do feel more alert but maybe its just because my neck feels so damn good.


A couple experiments that might be interesting: Stop pycnogenol for a while and see if the stiffness returns. Sometimes all you need to do is break the inflammatory cycle and allow yourself to heal. You also might be able to get by with a lower dose, which is helpful considering the high cost. You might consider trying a conventional non-steroidal anti-inflammatory, like ibuprofen (400-600mg) just to see if it has the same effect. I wouldn't stay on either a steroidal or nonsteroidal AI for a long time, since they have various problems. You could stay on pycno for a long time, as long as you don't go overboard on dose.





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