387 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

Wow, now I'm going to get downbombed by the fanatical believers in ScienceGuy. So be it, lol.

You guys know he personally sent me a PM to downrate posts, as to many other users, made by IrishMD some time ago. This tells a lot about a person.

Edited by yadayada, 08 October 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

OK, I just returned home to post details of some reputable labs for you YADAYADA and... WOW! Feel better?

Seriously, are you having a bad day or something? I don't know what's got your goat but I am not 'the enemy', nor is anything you just slung at me in any regard warranted... I am not going to get into a fight with you... all I will say is that ACTIONS tell the most about a person my friend; wherein mine to date on this forum have been nothing but ALTRUISTIC... To reiterate I have never profited from any of the GROUP BUYS that I have been involved in; in fact, I have lost money

For what it is worth, I agree with you that I am being involved far too much in too many GROUP BUYS; wherein, if it appears that I am in any regard 'monopolizing' GROUP BUYS then it is most definitely time for me to step aside and let other fine gentlemen such as your good self lead the way with regards to these... seriously, no hard feelings whatsoever OK?

My other reason for needing to step back somewhat is due to my quite simply not having sufficient available free time to be so involved in multiple GROUP BUYS concurrently...

As promised, here are the details of a reputable third party whom can do both CUSTOM SYNTHESIS and CHEMICAL ANALYSIS: TOCRIS BIOSCIENCE

They are UK based and they were one of the labs who I obtained quotes from (and confirmation they could do the synthesis) for COLURACETAM... They will be more expensive than CHINESE manufacturers, but you can be sure that the PURITY will be as it should be and most importantly they are reputable

Now before you blow a gasket again, please kindly note that I am NOT saying that your HONG KONG LAB is not reputable or trustworthy... wherein, it sounds very much like they fall into the category of BONA FIDE given you have dealt with them previously and with good results... If you have confidence in them then I would very much recommend proceeding with using your HONG KONG LAB and consider using TOCRIS (or someone similar) for third party analysis; wherein, there will be a charge for this (I have absorbed this cost myself previously, but I am sure that everyone would be agreeable to contributing towards the cost of this for you).

Also, please note that I have indeed had many bad experiences with CHINESE manufacturers; and this has included many instances of bogus material, fake certificates of analysis, etc. etc. wherein I reiterate this does NOT mean ALL Chinese manufacturers are crooked; but in my professional experience to date a significant percentage of them are indeed so... It is a sad and sorry situation, but unfortunately true... Even so, please do not misconstrue my meaning regarding this... I reiterate that I am simply urging caution to deal only with CHINESE manufacturers whom have an established track record of being BONA FIDE; and it sounds like your HONG KONG LAB is one of these if you have tested them out prevously.

If you want me to recommend other LABS then let me know and I will be happy to help

EDIT: I should add that YADAYADA does not owe me an apology; and he should be commended for spearheading this GROUP BUY for BPAP

Edited by ScienceGuy, 08 October 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

I hope you don't change your mind now about ISRIB.

To confirm, I am still very happy to assist with regards to the SHIPPING of the ISRIB GROUP BUY; but given your feelings towards me and obvious trust issues I would fully understand if you would not wish me to do so... Anyway, the offer is there still if you want my help (I will post a message about this on the ISRIB thread)

Edited by ScienceGuy, 08 October 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

I hope you don't change your mind now about ISRIB.

To confirm, I am still very happy to assist with regards to the SHIPPING of the ISRIB GROUP BUY; but given your feelings towards me and obvious trust issues I would fully understand if you would not wish me to do so... Anyway, the offer is there still if you want my help (I will post a message about this on the ISRIB thread)

Thank you.

The supplier is still willing to send a HCL 1g sample (albeit this is a tremendous amount for testing purposes from what I've been told.)

If you are OK with this please let me know, and please include any specific instructions you want on the shipping label.

I'd be glad to hand over the payments that have been made to me for the ISRIB group buy to you. I have your paypal, should I send it over? It's around 900 USD. Not that much compared to what I make from my sources of income...

I also sent you a payment a couple days back for the 5 g of NSI-189 and haven't gotten word of it being shipped or anything. I'd appreciate some word in regards to that also, thank you.

For the matter, I've been pushing hard to get all these group buys going and would love to see other members taking the initiative with starting their own group buys.

So, far I've completed a uridine group buy, helped jump-start the PRL group buy with Q did it! as he might tell you, BPAP (which is taking some time due to the difficulty of making it), 7,8-dihydroxyflavone of which I'm trying to get a herbal extract, IDRA-21 which you tested yourself, Pitolisant, NSI-189 which I was totally in for and threw in my time and effort getting some interest in it, ISRIB, and a few other compounds I haven't even mentioned anywhere. Hell, I probably forgot all the compounds I've been trying to get done, there are so many of them!!!

Please don't take offense; but, when you tell me my supplier is untrustworthy its a bit of a slap in the face for all this hard work. Thank you!

Edited by yadayada, 08 October 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

...Please don't take offense; but, when you tell me my supplier is untrustworthy its a bit of a slap in the face for all this hard work. Thank you!

Look seriously I meant no insult... I simply reported the facts as they have transpired... We received a package with an EMPTY 5ML GLASS VIAL and it was as it happens also labelled as "EMPTY 5ML GLASS VIAL". I wish this had not happened... but it did.

And for what it is worth I was going to suggest you get a quote from TOCRIS BIOSCIENCE as I know GOOGOLTARIAN is way too busy to take this on at the moment on top of everything else...

Anyway, because there are clearly some trust issues here I really think it is best if you get your BPAP analyzed by a third party without me being involved... this is the only way you are going to have absolute confidence that there is no 'funny business' going on

TOCRIS should be able to do this for you; but you might also want to check out THE CHEMISTRY RESEARCH SOLUTION who are based in the US... they are set up to do analysis via BRUKER NMR SPECTROMETER which is what you want really (HPLC is also useful but it doesn't show up everything)

I also sent you a payment a couple days back for the 5 g of NSI-189 and haven't gotten word of it being shipped or anything. I'd appreciate some word in regards to that also, thank you

I did mention that I would need to wait to receive payment from everyone and I would then be mailing everyone's packages ASAP following this... wherein, I am still waiting to receive payment from two people, but I will be mailing everyone's packages except these two the day after tomorrow (THURSDAY) as it is not fair on everyone else to delay any longer

Edited by ScienceGuy, 08 October 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[ricko321]

Hi can we buy stuff from tocris without special privileges

[ScienceGuy]

Hi can we buy stuff from tocris without special privileges

TOCRIS will only deal with COMPANIES and will only provide material for RESEARCH PURPOSES... you will find that this is typical

So you will need to tick both those boxes if you want them to deal with you

[Reformed-Redan]

...Please don't take offense; but, when you tell me my supplier is untrustworthy its a bit of a slap in the face for all this hard work. Thank you!

Look seriously I meant no insult... I simply reported the facts as they have transpired... We received a package with an EMPTY 5ML GLASS VIAL and it was as it happens also labelled as "EMPTY 5ML GLASS VIAL". I wish this had not happened... but it did.

And for what it is worth I was going to suggest you get a quote from TOCRIS BIOSCIENCE as I know GOOGOLTARIAN is way too busy to take this on at the moment on top of everything else...

Anyway, because there are clearly some trust issues here I really think it is best if you get your BPAP analyzed by a third party without me being involved... this is the only way you are going to have absolute confidence that there is no 'funny business' going on

TOCRIS should be able to do this for you; but you might also want to check out THE CHEMISTRY RESEARCH SOLUTION who are based in the US... they are set up to do analysis via BRUKER NMR SPECTROMETER which is what you want really (HPLC is also useful but it doesn't show up everything)

I also sent you a payment a couple days back for the 5 g of NSI-189 and haven't gotten word of it being shipped or anything. I'd appreciate some word in regards to that also, thank you

I did mention that I would need to wait to receive payment from everyone and I would then be mailing everyone's packages ASAP following this... wherein, I am still waiting to receive payment from two people, but I will be mailing everyone's packages except these two the day after tomorrow (THURSDAY) as it is not fair on everyone else to delay any longer

Great! I have already requested that the supplier send the sample to Tocris. I'll pay for the analysis out of pocket if I have to. Thank you for all your time ScienceGuy. I'll post the results from the BPAP analysis ASAP.

[ScienceGuy]

I'd be glad to hand over the payments that have been made to me for the ISRIB group buy to you. I have your paypal, should I send it over? It's around 900 USD.

I have answered this on the ISRIB GROUP BUY THREAD for you

[Reformed-Redan]

So, looking at analytical labs I see that the major firms involved in this cost around 2k to make a custom analysis of this product. I TRULY believe that ScienceGuy, you, have a strong material interest vested in holding onto some sort of leverage or dominance in the nootropic area. The might be unfounded suspicions; but, I'd rather throw them out there. If the group is interested in collecting 2k in funds to do an independent 3'rd party test, then I'm all ears. However, if ScienceGuy decides to assist us with the analysis, then that's good too. Your shot ScienceGuy.

[ScienceGuy]

So, looking at analytical labs I see that the major firms involved in this cost around 2k to make a custom analysis of this product. I TRULY believe that ScienceGuy, you, have a strong material interest vested in holding onto some sort of leverage or dominance in the nootropic area. The might be unfounded suspicions; but, I'd rather throw them out there. If the group is interested in collecting 2k in funds to do an independent 3'rd party test, then I'm all ears. However, if ScienceGuy decides to assist us with the analysis, then that's good too. Your shot ScienceGuy.

Oh for heaven's sake... YADAYADA, seriously what the hell is your problem? Aside from the fact you need to seriously work on your PR SKILLS, just THINK through what you are accusing me of properly will you?

I TRULY believe that ScienceGuy, you, have a strong material interest vested in holding onto some sort of leverage or dominance in the nootropic area.

How in any regard whatsoever does my involvement in GROUP BUYS at A LOSS, ZERO PROFIT and ZERO REWARD qualify as a "strong material interest"?

And how exactly does my stepping back my involvement in GROUP BUYS in any regard enable me to obtain "dominance in the nootropic area"?

For what it is worth, I am going to carry out my existing commitment with regards to managing the SHIPPING on individual participant quantities for the ISRIB GROUP BUY and PRL-5-83; then I am going to cease my involvement in GROUP BUYS entirely.

And BTW you should spend a bit more time obtaining MULTIPLE QUOTES for ANALYSIS if you have been quoted 2K... You will find that the price will vary considerably according to how busy they are, what is your total business relationship with them and of course how nicely you ask them, wherein please don't blow a gasket again but your PR SKILLS could do with a bit of improving... Although you seem to think to the contrary, I really do NOT have absolute control over all labs and the pricing they quote you... Shop around... you should be able to get this analysis done for a few hundred bucks

Edited by ScienceGuy, 09 October 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[Artificiality]

Scienceguy, please don't take his accusations to heart. I'm quite confident that the vast majority of the members are aware of how much time and money you have invested into these group buys. It is quite clear to me from your previous involvements that you have in fact ended up SPENDING a good sum of money for the benefit of this community; I have to admit I have been somewhat at awe of how selfless you are with your involvement in these group buys and sincerely appreciate all that you have done.
Please don't let one bad egg on this forum stop your involvement in future group buys.

[typ3z3r0]

Perhaps you could get a quote from Colmaric Analyticals too. MisterYouAreSoDumb from /r/nootropics has used them to analyse Cerebral Health's choline bitartrate and pyritinol.

[Reformed-Redan]

Scienceguy, please don't take his accusations to heart. I'm quite confident that the vast majority of the members are aware of how much time and money you have invested into these group buys. It is quite clear to me from your previous involvements that you have in fact ended up SPENDING a good sum of money for the benefit of this community; I have to admit I have been somewhat at awe of how selfless you are with your involvement in these group buys and sincerely appreciate all that you have done.
Please don't let one bad egg on this forum stop your involvement in future group buys.

Not to toot my own horn; but, I've been here for a while and I was the first guy to really push for group buys. It started with 7,8-dihydroxyflavone on which I lost money, you can look it up. Then, I went together with Q did it! and tried to do a group buy for PRL which was eventually taken over by ScienceGuy and Googletarian. Most of the interest in these forums and groups buys were spearheaded by me, and I don't mean to sound egotistical; but, just take a look at the archive of the forums. I never cared about gathering a following. I've rarely profited from any group buys and the prices that are offered by my supplier are drastically lower than what you would have to pay for something that could stand to the rigor of some other members. I'm careful not to just buy compounds off the internet and digest them so I do care about doing independent lab analysis testing. You may also want to look at the history of recent group buys. NSI-189, IDRA-21, PRL, ISRIB all were taken over by ScienceGuy's supplier and he is selflessly doing all the shipping for us.

Anyway, Pitolisant will be ready soon and if my supplier is willing to release a novel compound to the public I would love to share it with you guys; but, we have a pact of confidentiality between us about it.

Perhaps you could get a quote from Colmaric Analyticals too. MisterYouAreSoDumb from /r/nootropics has used them to analyse Cerebral Health's choline bitartrate and pyritinol.

Thanks for that. I'll try and look into it.

[ScienceGuy]

Scienceguy, please don't take his accusations to heart. I'm quite confident that the vast majority of the members are aware of how much time and money you have invested into these group buys...

Thank you for the kind words... but please note that these accusations are in fact NOT the primary reason for my stepping back from participating in GROUP BUYS... my primary reason is lack of sufficient available free time; wherein I was intending to step back anyway, and the accusations have simply made me decide to expedite this... I am not saying I will never assist with GROUP BUYS ever again but I really do need to separate myself from any possible suspicion that I might have any sort of hidden agenda; wherein, in my experience if one person states an accusation, then others must have thought it... and that will not do...

I think it will be a good idea to let others carry the torch with regards to these GROUP BUYS for a while... when the dust settles and it is abundently clear that I am not and have never been seeking to monopolize the GROUP BUYS, as part of an evil plan for world domination, and when I have more freetime available, then perhaps I might get involved again.

Perhaps you could get a quote from Colmaric Analyticals too. MisterYouAreSoDumb from /r/nootropics has used them to analyse Cerebral Health's choline bitartrate and pyritinol.

Good idea. Like I said, shop around and whatever you do DON'T pay £2K for a singular analysis!

[ScienceGuy]

...the prices that are offered by my supplier are drastically lower than what you would have to pay for something that could stand to the rigor of some other members. I'm careful not to just buy compounds off the internet and digest them so I do care about doing independent lab analysis testing...

Just a thought... depending on how well you know and trust your supplier, if you use them for multiple custom syntheses then you would not need to obtain third party analysis in EVERY instance, but simply carry out random batch testing and inform your supplier that you will be doing so... they won't know which batches you will be having tested and hence this would be sufficient to motivate them to ensure that the product is always as it should be.

[phil8462643]

currently wiping the traces of tears off my face, recovering, still a bit of ptsd, LONGECITY is back up and running! PHEW!

[Reformed-Redan]

God I cant wait until I get this compound. I'm tired of reading the wiki page on BPAP.

[xks201]

I think you guys should untwist each others panties and just focus on getting the compounds done. SG and Yada both have value to add to the forum. Just because a supplier screwed you with an empty vial doesn't make you an idiot yada. I would think that a simple non chinese lab recommendation from SG would be all that's needed to proceed.

In any event I have a guy who claims to have bpap at 150 $ for a 3 month supply which I will be ordering when its available in november. I'd be hapy to test it and report back in the event that we still need a supplier by then.

I'm happy to help with group buys. Honestly yada I think trust is everything in this act and that thete is no time to mess around with brand new unestablished suppliers. I'm pretty sure everyone here would rayher pay an extra fifty dollars to know they are getting real product from a lab that has served us before than gamble on a new relationship. Thays just my two cents though.

[phil8462643]

its just a chem. $200 a gram is not such a low price! one might be under the impression that since the dose is so low, it might have to be higher purity, but in reality its just a chem! I am surprised that chemists today have such a problem synth'ing things! we have not actually come very far from the 70s! it seems we have gone backwards!

I think you guys should untwist each others panties and just focus on getting the compounds done. SG and Yada both have value to add to the forum. Just because a supplier screwed you with an empty vial doesn't make you an idiot yada. I would think that a simple non chinese lab recommendation from SG would be all that's needed to proceed.

In any event I have a guy who claims to have bpap at 150 $ for a 3 month supply which I will be ordering when its available in november. I'd be hapy to test it and report back in the event that we still need a supplier by then.

I'm happy to help with group buys. Honestly yada I think trust is everything in this act and that thete is no time to mess around with brand new unestablished suppliers. I'm pretty sure everyone here would rayher pay an extra fifty dollars to know they are getting real product from a lab that has served us before than gamble on a new relationship. Thays just my two cents though.

morelife?

[Lemon.]

http://en.wikipedia....pylaminopentane
This is excellent, where may I buy it please???

[Lemon.]

what's happening with this?...

[xks201]

What does morelife? Mean?

[unregistered_user]

If this thing is still moving forward and accepting participants, count me in.

[Reformed-Redan]

What does morelife? Mean?

Google is your friend.

If this thing is still moving forward and accepting participants, count me in.

I'm sorry; but, atm I can't accept more participants. There might be a second group buy just for you guys. Let's wait for initial results.

[Lemon.]

May you guys please stop fighting or doing whatever?. Like whatever the issue is, I am sure if you all just shacked each others hands on the forum and said ok, lets start fresh it would be better for everyone and mostly you in every way.

[ScienceGuy]

I think you guys should untwist each others panties and just focus on getting the compounds done. SG and Yada both have value to add to the forum. Just because a supplier screwed you with an empty vial doesn't make you an idiot yada. I would think that a simple non chinese lab recommendation from SG would be all that's needed to proceed... Honestly yada I think trust is everything in this act and that thete is no time to mess around with brand new unestablished suppliers. I'm pretty sure everyone here would rayher pay an extra fifty dollars to know they are getting real product from a lab that has served us before than gamble on a new relationship. Thays just my two cents though.

what's happening with this?... May you guys please stop fighting or doing whatever?. Like whatever the issue is, I am sure if you all just shacked each others hands on the forum and said ok, lets start fresh it would be better for everyone and mostly you in every way.

To clarify:

1) There is no fighting, nor any problem between myself and YADAYADA;

2) This Group Buy for BPAP was commenced by YADAYADA, and is being managed by YAYAYADA; wherein, I have no direct involvement in it;

3) I was asked very late in the Group Buy process by YADAYADA to assist him by getting a sample of BPAP manufactured by his chosen CUSTOM SYNTHESIS LAB tested to confirm its AUTHENTICITY and PURITY are as per the desired SPECIFICATION; wherein, YADAYADA should be commended for wishing to carry out said QUALITY CONTROL PROTOCOL to ensure the product supplied to others is as it should be;

4) The only HICCUP so to speak has occurred as a consequence of my receiving an EMPTY GLASS VIAL from YADAYADA's chosen supplier; following which there has clearly been a breakdown of trust, and accusations that I am somehow seeking to monopolize Group Buys on LONGECITY; which has had the knock on effect of my needing to separate myself from and disperse any such suspicion that I might have some sort of HIDDEN AGENDA in any regard whatsoever (wherein, it should be noted that with respect to the Group Buys for both PRL-5-83 and ISRIB I was in fact REQUESTED to assist with those Group Buys, I did not 'GATECRASH THE PARTY' so to speak)

5) I am happy to help INDIRECTLY with regards to recommending reputable third party ANALYSIS LABS etc. and as such I have already done so.

I reiterate, there is no fighting, nor any problem between myself and YADAYADA. This is his party, he has done ALL the work to date regarding this Group Buy himself, has devoted and, as far as I am aware, is continuing to invest a considerable amount of time in carrying out this Group Buy to fruition; and should be commended for doing so.

YAYAYADA has made clear that he has in fact used this supplier previously and trusts them; and hence IMO they should NOT be perceived or treated as being a BRAND NEW, UNTESTED, SUPPLIER from CHINA. Personally, I consider someone is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and, as I have already stated, it is quite possible that UK CUSTOMS opened the package and emptied the GLASS VIAL of LIQUID in order to test the LIQUID for NARCOTICS; wherein, this would be a perfectly plausible explanation as to HOW and WHY I received an EMPTY GLASS VIAL. In such instance, clearly YADAYADA's supplier would be entirely INNOCENT regarding this...

I bear YADAYADA no ill feeling whatsoever and wish him all the best with regards to this Group Buy and if I can assist indirectly by making further recommendations etc... then I will be very happy to do so.

[Reformed-Redan]

I think you guys should untwist each others panties and just focus on getting the compounds done. SG and Yada both have value to add to the forum. Just because a supplier screwed you with an empty vial doesn't make you an idiot yada. I would think that a simple non chinese lab recommendation from SG would be all that's needed to proceed... Honestly yada I think trust is everything in this act and that thete is no time to mess around with brand new unestablished suppliers. I'm pretty sure everyone here would rayher pay an extra fifty dollars to know they are getting real product from a lab that has served us before than gamble on a new relationship. Thays just my two cents though.

what's happening with this?... May you guys please stop fighting or doing whatever?. Like whatever the issue is, I am sure if you all just shacked each others hands on the forum and said ok, lets start fresh it would be better for everyone and mostly you in every way.

To clarify:

1) There is no fighting, nor any problem between myself and YADAYADA;

2) This Group Buy for BPAP was commenced by YADAYADA, and is being managed by YAYAYADA; wherein, I have no direct involvement in it;

3) I was asked very late in the Group Buy process by YADAYADA to assist him by getting a sample of BPAP manufactured by his chosen CUSTOM SYNTHESIS LAB tested to confirm its AUTHENTICITY and PURITY are as per the desired SPECIFICATION; wherein, YADAYADA should be commended for wishing to carry out said QUALITY CONTROL PROTOCOL to ensure the product supplied to others is as it should be;

4) The only HICCUP so to speak has occurred as a consequence of my receiving an EMPTY GLASS VIAL from YADAYADA's chosen supplier; following which there has clearly been a breakdown of trust, and accusations that I am somehow seeking to monopolize Group Buys on LONGECITY; which has had the knock on effect of my needing to separate myself from and disperse any such suspicion that I might have some sort of HIDDEN AGENDA in any regard whatsoever (wherein, it should be noted that with respect to the Group Buys for both PRL-5-83 and ISRIB I was in fact REQUESTED to assist with those Group Buys, I did not 'GATECRASH THE PARTY' so to speak)

5) I am happy to help INDIRECTLY with regards to recommending reputable third party ANALYSIS LABS etc. and as such I have already done so.

I reiterate, there is no fighting, nor any problem between myself and YADAYADA. This is his party, he has done ALL the work to date regarding this Group Buy himself, has devoted and, as far as I am aware, is continuing to invest a considerable amount of time in carrying out this Group Buy to fruition; and should be commended for doing so.

YAYAYADA has made clear that he has in fact used this supplier previously and trusts them; and hence IMO they should NOT be perceived or treated as being a BRAND NEW, UNTESTED, SUPPLIER from CHINA. Personally, I consider someone is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and, as I have already stated, it is quite possible that UK CUSTOMS opened the package and emptied the GLASS VIAL of LIQUID in order to test the LIQUID for NARCOTICS; wherein, this would be a perfectly plausible explanation as to HOW and WHY I received an EMPTY GLASS VIAL. In such instance, clearly YADAYADA's supplier would be entirely INNOCENT regarding this...

I bear YADAYADA no ill feeling whatsoever and wish him all the best with regards to this Group Buy and if I can assist indirectly by making further recommendations etc... then I will be very happy to do so.

I will make an effort and send you another sample personally if that is what you want to do away with any recent ill conversations. I just need your approval and exact details on how you want to proceed with this since I don't want to repeat what has already happened for that would simply be insane.

[MangekyōPeter]

Is there still room to join this?

[unregistered_user]

What does morelife? Mean?

Google is your friend.

If this thing is still moving forward and accepting participants, count me in.

I'm sorry; but, atm I can't accept more participants. There might be a second group buy just for you guys. Let's wait for initial results.

No problem. I'll stand by for the results. Thanks for getting behind another group buy. We appreciate your effort.