387 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

yadayada, how is the shipment going?

It's on its way afaik. Havent gotten tracking yet for the 1g sample. It's a little hazy atm; but, just give it time and all will clear up and be ready. I think, my supplier indicated that he will handle shipping to all participants, which is awesome, including residents of AU, UK, EU, and US. Pretty neat?

Hmm.. almost sounds too good to be true..

Well, once you have the BPAP in your hands and if you so choose to lab analyze it, then I think you'll be satisfied.

[Reformed-Redan]

Guys I'm attaching a HNMR of DMSO BPAP. As you may guess the supplier is still trying to stabalize the BPAP into HCL or Citrate form. I think I will receive a small HCL form. If anyone wants to do independent lab analysis on it I can send it over to you. I just need a quote from a reputable company that you would be sending it for.

http://www.scribd.co...mr-Dmso-Nov2013

Edited by yadayada, 16 November 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[Googoltarian]

Guys I'm attaching a HNMR of DMSO BPAP. As you may guess the supplier is still trying to stabalize the BPAP into HCL or Citrate form.

Free chemistry lesson for your Chinese chemists:

Furan derivatives are highly susceptible to acidic hydrolysis, when some moisture gets to BPAP HCl you will get acidic environment on crystal/powder surface and this starts degradation by ring opening and this starts condensations which are apparent on 1H NMR. Aromatic protons between 6,5 and 8 ppm should give solid 2:2:1 integration, but instead it shows that there is some impurity hidden inside middle multiplet. But its normal that you don't get perfect integration for NH₂⁺ which you see as doublet above 9 ppm.

There is no way they will get stable BPAP HCl. Even citric acid can be too strong.

Solution:
Tell them to try preparing carbonate salt, or better benzoate - first by azeotropic removal of water in toluene or 1,2-dichloroetane solution of BPAP base, when water stops collecting there should be added (still hot solution) 1,05 equivalent of benzoic acid in dry solvent, stirring for some time and slow cooling which should start crystallization.

Hope that helps.

[Reformed-Redan]

Guys I'm attaching a HNMR of DMSO BPAP. As you may guess the supplier is still trying to stabalize the BPAP into HCL or Citrate form.

Free chemistry lesson for your Chinese chemists:

Furan derivatives are highly susceptible to acidic hydrolysis, when some moisture gets to BPAP HCl you will get acidic environment on crystal/powder surface and this starts degradation by ring opening and this starts condensations which are apparent on 1H NMR. Aromatic protons between 6,5 and 8 ppm should give solid 2:2:1 integration, but instead it shows that there is some impurity hidden inside middle multiplet. But its normal that you don't get perfect integration for NH₂⁺ which you see as doublet above 9 ppm.

There is no way they will get stable BPAP HCl. Even citric acid can be too strong.

Solution:
Tell them to try preparing carbonate salt, or better benzoate - first by azeotropic removal of water in toluene or 1,2-dichloroetane solution of BPAP base, when water stops collecting there should be added (still hot solution) 1,05 equivalent of benzoic acid in dry solvent, stirring for some time and slow cooling which should start crystallization.

Hope that helps.

Thank you. I'll be sure to include that in an e-mail.

[sparkk51]

Do you guys think this will have strong antidepressant effects?

Also, what do you guys think about taking the uridine, choline, and fish oil stack at the same time?

[Reformed-Redan]

OK! Time for a reality check everyone.

BPAP was a pain in the ass to make. My supplier had to really toil through this. It took quite a bit of resources from you and especially me (time). I hate that this took so long. In the end you guys will get (-)-BPAP. I already sent out your shipping addresses, a pain to organize when some of you guys keep on switching places.

Anyway, here is what happened. The compound ws way harder to produce than intially anticipated. The supplier burned through all the funds and had to shell out of his own pocket to complete the synthesis. A small batch was made in HCL form. Everyone will be getting 100mg, more than enough to use BPAP. Now, here is the bad news. BPAP in HCL form as mentioned by Googletarian is unstable, so it must be kept in a dry and cool place at all times. The BPAP was produced in HCL form because all patents and research papers on BPAP were performed on HCL form. I haven't seen any papers on BPAP being in carbonate salt, or benzoate. My supplier actually contacted "Fujimoto Pharmaceutical Corporation", which produced the BPAP HCL in the studies conducted by Joseph Knoll. They had little to no information, because it was so long ago. Another problem is that BPAP hydrolyzes in liquid form after a couple of days. Here is the reccomendation by the supplier regarding storage of BPAP:
"Keep as much as you can in its solid state, and in a refrigerator. With the rest, make a DMSO solution at 1mg/ml or 500mcg/ml for storage, and dilute it (1ml insulin needle) prior to use. Two reasons:

-DMSO does not dissociate to form reactive hydrogen or peroxide ions, so it's PH neutral & rather inert compared to water.
-This is how (-)-BPAP was handled in the studies we have.

...It must be further noted that even storage in DMSO solutions is a short-to-medium-term solution. Months, not years. See attached for more details.
If you refrigerate the DMSO solution, it'll freeze. This is a good thing as far as stability is concerned, but an annoyance with respect to convenience."

So, yes... BPAP is a tricky compound. However, if results are positive, figuring out ways to preserve BPAP and maybe have a supplier sell in liquid form should not be too hard if there is enough interest because of positive effects. Anyway, take it for what it is. I can;t fight with reality; but, at least you're getting something and will be able to see if it works or not for you.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR PATIENCE. It's been a strain on my supplier and I; but, we're done. Thanks.

Edited by yadayada, 21 November 2013 - 05:49 PM.

[lourdaud]

So you're saying we won't get more than a tenth of the amount we originally paid for?

[Reformed-Redan]

If you're really unhappy then I can send you the 1g sample I'm getting for testing purposes. Though, you'll never get to use that whole amount before degradation.

[ricko321]

will it last more than 1 year

[Reformed-Redan]

The solid form will. Not the DMSO.

[sparkk51]

Is there a chance to one day start another group buy for a larger, more preservable bulk order of BPAP? If this stuff works as well as I hope it will, I plan on using daily to enhance the most fundamentally lacking part of my cognition.

[phil8462643]

Shit that means we only get 3.4 years worth... Well I guess that will have to do! LOL

[Reformed-Redan]

Is there a chance to one day start another group buy for a larger, more preservable bulk order of BPAP? If this stuff works as well as I hope it will, I plan on using daily to enhance the most fundamentally lacking part of my cognition.

Yeah, sure. But please get the intial dosing correct. I don't want people getting mixed results. Selegiline was the best thing I found, and if this is Selegiline 2.0, then I'll be extactic. Please, get the dosing correct, thanks.

Is there a chance to one day start another group buy for a larger, more preservable bulk order of BPAP? If this stuff works as well as I hope it will, I plan on using daily to enhance the most fundamentally lacking part of my cognition.

I don't think there is a greater nootropic than relieving stress induced depression. Ehh, high hopes for this and the next candidate after GLYX-13.

I'm sure we can figure out some method to store and preserve BPAP. Not sure in what form it would be in...

[trip96]

What are the initial doses for bpap? I read in studies they were using the same dose as selegeline but claimed it is far stronger a substance. Apparently it also has a low toxicity. So my question is, what dose are you guys starting with?

Also, Yadayada you never explicitly said anything about shipping to Canada. I just assumed that your supplier is shipping to Canada. Am I right with this assumption?

It's exciting that bpap will be tested by the progressive daring group here at longecity soon! I'm looking forward to this.

[phil8462643]

I am not very daring! We have Jozef Knoll's stamp of approval on this one! This one was not discovered by a no name chemist. Read Jozef Knoll's comments on (-)bpap.

[phil8462643]

glyx-13 is a beautiful looking molecule BTW

[Reformed-Redan]

glyx-13 is a beautiful looking molecule BTW

Very hard to synthesize. Look at the newer compound Naurex made. That's what we'll have our eyes on once we can see the structure.

[sparkk51]

How many of you are going to ingest the substance before seeing the results of the third party chemical test?

If you dare to guinea pig, please report any side effects you have, at least, for the first week.

[Reformed-Redan]

I'll get a 1g sample. If anyone wants I can shave off 800mg. That is 100mg for each person. Just PM me. 1 will go to free for Q did it!

I will never be able to get through 1g anyway, so if anyone can benefit from it, so much the better.

[phil8462643]

I aint tryin it until the results come back! yadayada, Are you getting it tested?

[Ark]

in if room.

[Reformed-Redan]

I aint tryin it until the results come back! yadayada, Are you getting it tested?

Sorry, already went over this a few pages back.

[Reformed-Redan]

I still have some BPAP I can sell off if you guys want any. Effects TBA latter.

[gnappi]

I still have some BPAP I can sell off if you guys want any. Effects TBA latter.

yadayada, can you sell me 50 milligrams? Do you accept payment via paypal?

[phil8462643]

What is the eta for usa?

[sparkk51]

If yada has BPAP, American participants should have theirs already, no?

Edited by sparkk51, 28 November 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[MizTen]

If yada has BPAP, American participants should have theirs already, no?

Not me.

[Reformed-Redan]

I got my sample. I already sent word to the supplier to start sending out the package to everyone. I'll have to do redistribution for US and Cannadian participants once I recieve it.

[phil8462643]

Have you theoretically tried it on your rat yet, yada?

[Reformed-Redan]

K, guys first report on BPAP at 100mcg though DMSO solution at 6 drops. Should have been 6.6; but, 6 was sufficient. Initial effects are very interesting. I'm already exchausted and I have a weird woozy feeling. I feel very calm and relaxed. I definitely feel a more focused component. Like I'm in the zone or whatever. It's really nice. I'm following my thoughts pretty clearly and all I can call it is being in the zone. Not like adderall that just drops a hammer on you and you start squuzing your jaws and bending over to write stuff. I'm pretty sure it's too early to tell; but, I live the effects from the normalization of my attention and focus. Anyway, you guys should be getting it soon. 6.6 drops = 100mcg. I did 6 drops. So far so good. No assholeness associated with deprenyl for sure.