387 replies to this topic

[sparkk51]

Guys, I left the BPAP in the refrigerator last night. I took it out just now and it's frozen. I am no chemistry student, but should this stuff freeze in the average refrigerator? I can't tell the temperature it's set at but the other liquids aren't frozen ><.

Different liquids have different freezing points.

Yes, but it still seems very strange to me that it froze. I guess I am just too unfamiliar with DMSO.

[sparkk51]

Anyway, how would you guys suggest I proceed?

Edit: Guys is it possible that I'm ingesting dissolved rubber from the cap? Getting a strong fear that's where the taste is coming from.

Edited by sparkk51, 02 January 2014 - 03:41 PM.

[Nattzor]

Yes, but it still seems very strange to me that it froze. I guess I am just too unfamiliar with DMSO.

From wiki:

"The relatively high freezing point of DMSO, 18.5 °C (65.3 °F), means that at, or just below, room temperature it is a solid, which can limit its utility in some chemical processes (e.g. crystallization with cooling)."

[sparkk51]

Can any of you report the same? I genuinely believe my DMSO is contaminated with dissolved rubber and I think it may be from the balloon. Of course, it could also be from the dropper, but the taste distinctly reminds me of the balloon rubber.

[Reformed-Redan]

Can any of you report the same? I genuinely believe my DMSO is contaminated with dissolved rubber and I think it may be from the balloon. Of course, it could also be from the dropper, but the taste distinctly reminds me of the balloon rubber.

No, that's just the taste of DMSO. It isn't really that nice to the taste buds.

[phil8462643]

Hey. How much bpap are we getting? 100mg?

[MizTen]

Kudus to yadayada and Q-did-it! for putting this buy together. From the looks of things, it must have been quite a task. So thanks for the time and focus it took to make this happen.

My next comments have no bearing on the people involved, so please don't anyone take this personally. My observations are mostly about the drug and the nature of group buys. Yes, it does get funnier...

Mine came around Christmas. It was frozen and the rubber dropper cap was swollen and leaking, valiantly wrapped with a deflated white party balloon to keep it from leaking more. The bottle had 27 ml when it arrived.

It wasn't clear to me at first that it should be refrigerated, but I didn't know it would freeze again when I did. So the dropper cap again expanded with some leaking even though it was upright. I also didn't know about keeping out of the light. So it spent about 2 days incorrectly stored before I fixed that.

I initially took 6 drops with some result. After measuring the drops, there was clearly a lot of variability in the size of the drops so I used the dropper (marked) to measure .5 ml. This was only a little more than 6 drops. By the third day, I switched to 1 ml. This is the dose I stayed with. My research sample may have degraded due to probably several freeze/thaw cycles as well as the light exposure, so my dose may have needed to be higher. At this dosage, if I hadn't lost some due to transferring to smaller containers, I would have had 27 doses at 1 ml.

Sublinguial I tried only once. Though very effective, the taste and odor lingered so persistently in my mouth that I spent the entire New Year's Eve holiday trying to purge the taste and smell. The effect is interesting, once you calm down from the feeling that you may have just consumed antifreeze.

Next, I figured that since DMSO is usually used as a topical carrier for drugs it should work pretty well that way and applied to my ankles, figuring that was far enough away from my nose and everyone else's that I should be socially acceptable. Not the case, the odor seemed to spread even more, permeating the atmophere around me. The effect was still evident, though arriving more slowly and quietly.

The effects for me were:

"warm fuzzy" as someone else mentioned. Just don't be expecting to share those "warm fuzzy" feelings with anyone else, unless they like the scent of dragon breath.
some increase in mental clarity and focus, though I definitely focused on the wrong things
a small increase in cravings and impulses
a big increase in laziness and procrastination, possibly partly due to the holidays
alcohol had zero effect on me. 4 drinks over 3 hours (a lot for me) on New Year's had no effect whatsoever, none. No hangover the following day either.
noticeable body effect, but hard to describe

Half-life seems to be 3-4 hours, there are still some effects 6-8 hours later, though mild.

I fell asleep this morning after taking 1 ml. I rarely, if ever, fall asleep after I wake up. So it's doing something...

It seemed to increase anxiety on one of the first doses. Taking rhodiola and then exercising helped tremendously.

I had a prolonged and severe spell of coughing after swallowing it for the first time. It causes a very unpleasant hot sensation.

I really don't know whether or not my sample degraded due to temperature changes and light exposure. A 1 ml dose is probably a bit high even if my sample had been kept stable. So maybe (-)-BPAP has potential if used correctly. As always with the stronger nootropics, what correct usage is for each person may differ considerably, and figuring out how to make the best nootropic use of it always seems to take me a long time.

DMSO as a solvent for research chemicals in group buys is a great vehicle for scams, as the buyer can't determine the true physical characteristics of the drug, (flavor, consistency, color, etc) along with all the other difficulties that DMSO presents: taste, odor, and stability. This group buy was all above board, the drug is clearly present and probably in correct proportion to the solvent. But there is probably a better way. I personally have my doubts about the safety of ingesting DMSO.

Oh, and the irony. I transferred my sample into 1.5 ml bottles intended for perfume samples. Just dab a bit of that behind your ears!

Edited by MizTen, 02 January 2014 - 10:54 PM.

[lourdaud]

I want mine as well!

[Reformed-Redan]

Kudus to yadayada and Q-did-it! for putting this buy together. From the looks of things, it must have been quite a task. So thanks for the time and focus it took to make this happen.

My next comments have no bearing on the people involved, so please don't anyone take this personally. My observations are mostly about the drug and the nature of group buys. Yes, it does get funnier...

Mine came around Christmas. It was frozen and the rubber dropper cap was swollen and leaking, valiantly wrapped with a deflated white party balloon to keep it from leaking more. The bottle had 27 ml when it arrived.

It wasn't clear to me at first that it should be refrigerated, but I didn't know it would freeze again when I did. So the dropper cap again expanded with some leaking even though it was upright. I also didn't know about keeping out of the light. So it spent about 2 days incorrectly stored before I fixed that.

I initially took 6 drops with some result. After measuring the drops, there was clearly a lot of variability in the size of the drops so I used the dropper (marked) to measure .5 ml. This was only a little more than 6 drops. By the third day, I switched to 1 ml. This is the dose I stayed with. My research sample may have degraded due to probably several freeze/thaw cycles as well as the light exposure, so my dose may have needed to be higher. At this dosage, if I hadn't lost some due to transferring to smaller containers, I would have had 27 doses at 1 ml.

Sublinguial I tried only once. Though very effective, the taste and odor lingered so persistently in my mouth that I spent the entire New Year's Eve holiday trying to purge the taste and smell. The effect is interesting, once you calm down from the feeling that you may have just consumed antifreeze.

Next, I figured that since DMSO is usually used as a topical carrier for drugs it should work pretty well that way and applied to my ankles, figuring that was far enough away from my nose and everyone else's that I should be socially acceptable. Not the case, the odor seemed to spread even more, permeating the atmophere around me. The effect was still evident, though arriving more slowly and quietly.

The effects for me were:

"warm fuzzy" as someone else mentioned. Just don't be expecting to share those "warm fuzzy" feelings with anyone else, unless they like the scent of dragon breath.
some increase in mental clarity and focus, though I definitely focused on the wrong things
a small increase in cravings and impulses
a big increase in laziness and procrastination, possibly partly due to the holidays
alcohol had zero effect on me. 4 drinks over 3 hours (a lot for me) on New Year's had no effect whatsoever, none. No hangover the following day either.
noticeable body effect, but hard to describe

Half-life seems to be 3-4 hours, there are still some effects 6-8 hours later, though mild.

I fell asleep this morning after taking 1 ml. I rarely, if ever, fall asleep after I wake up. So it's doing something...

It seemed to increase anxiety on one of the first doses. Taking rhodiola and then exercising helped tremendously.

I had a prolonged and severe spell of coughing after swallowing it for the first time. It causes a very unpleasant hot sensation.

I really don't know whether or not my sample degraded due to temperature changes and light exposure. A 1 ml dose is probably a bit high even if my sample had been kept stable. So maybe (-)-BPAP has potential if used correctly. As always with the stronger nootropics, what correct usage is for each person may differ considerably, and figuring out how to make the best nootropic use of it always seems to take me a long time.

DMSO as a solvent for research chemicals in group buys is a great vehicle for scams, as the buyer can't determine the true physical characteristics of the drug, (flavor, consistency, color, etc) along with all the other difficulties that DMSO presents: taste, odor, and stability. This group buy was all above board, the drug is clearly present and probably in correct proportion to the solvent. But there is probably a better way. I personally have my doubts about the safety of ingesting DMSO.

Oh, and the irony. I transferred my sample into 1.5 ml bottles intended for perfume samples. Just dab a bit of that behind your ears!

Just try from a range of [1,6] drops sublingual. I think the effects are most pronounced around there.

[Multicultural Harmony]

"Sublinguial I tried only once. Though very effective, the taste and odor lingered so persistently in my mouth that I spent the entire New Year's Eve holiday trying to purge the taste and smell."

LoL!

[uralsky]

Just try from a range of [1,6] drops sublingual. I think the effects are most pronounced around there.

Thanks for the suggestion and for all your hard work. Still, what is the concentration, please?

[Hebbeh]

........unless they like the scent of dragon breath.......

Due to heavy work load, I had planned on postponing testing until the weekend. Fortunately (unfortunately ?) I also have a "first date" lined up for the weekend....and what I'm hearing is this may not be good timing with respect to compatible activities?

Also DMSO seems to be somewhat safe orally. http://www.webmd.com...ETHYLSULFOXIDE)

BTW...thanks for the valuable insight and first hand user experiences MizTen!

[sparkk51]

Personally, I don't notice any bad breath. Although, I haven't been spending any time socially lately.

[chemicalambrosia]

16 drops in a ml roughly. 6000/16 = 375. Either the bottle is 375ml (does not look like it is) or a dose is not 6 drops, or we have not been given 100mg

I'd eyeball that as a typical 50 ml medicine bottle. 375 ml would be like a large bottle of olive oil.

I compared it to a couple 30 ml bottles and they appear to be about the same size as this. It definitely isn't 50 ml.

if these drops are normal size drops, there should be 16 drops in a ml. if there is 1 mg in a ml, then 1 drop should be 62.5mcg! If the info we have been given is correct then a dose should be no more than 2 drops

It is actually serious question.
The bottle has ~ 30 mL of 300 ug/mL solution (as confirmed by yadayada) which makes ~10 mg total. If it is 100 mg: then actual concentration is more like 3 mg/mL?
Can we get a word from the manufacturer what is the concentration?

Hey. How much bpap are we getting? 100mg?

So, what exactly did we get? This question has been asked a number of times, but hasn't been answered.

[Hebbeh]

K, guys first report on BPAP at 100mcg though DMSO solution at 6 drops. Should have been 6.6; but, 6 was sufficient. Initial effects are very interesting. I'm already exchausted and I have a weird woozy feeling. I feel very calm and relaxed. I definitely feel a more focused component. Like I'm in the zone or whatever. It's really nice. I'm following my thoughts pretty clearly and all I can call it is being in the zone. Not like adderall that just drops a hammer on you and you start squuzing your jaws and bending over to write stuff. I'm pretty sure it's too early to tell; but, I live the effects from the normalization of my attention and focus. Anyway, you guys should be getting it soon. 6.6 drops = 100mcg. I did 6 drops. So far so good. No assholeness associated with deprenyl for sure.

[chemicalambrosia]

What you quoted means we were originally told we were getting 1 gram, then 100 mg, and now it appears to be 10mg...The dosages/concentration are clear from that quote, but it doesn't correlate with the 100mg we were told we were getting last(unless I missed another update). It would be nice to have the amount of BPAP in each bottle confirmed again, but it looks like we got 10mg each.

[MizTen]

........unless they like the scent of dragon breath.......

Due to heavy work load, I had planned on postponing testing until the weekend. Fortunately (unfortunately ?) I also have a "first date" lined up for the weekend....and what I'm hearing is this may not be good timing with respect to compatible activities?

Also DMSO seems to be somewhat safe orally. http://www.webmd.com...ETHYLSULFOXIDE)

BTW...thanks for the valuable insight and first hand user experiences MizTen!

It had a pretty strong "body effect" along with changes in focus and impulses, so with the breath issue, I wouldn't risk it for a first date. Unless your date is very open minded and also takes it...

Then things might get pretty interesting.

Maybe the breath part was worse for me due to my dosage or the fact that I am very sensitive to odors, IDK.

Have fun!

[Hebbeh]

From wiki... 20 drops per milliliter (can vary...quite a bit) http://en.wikipedia....i/Drop_(volume)

Assuming 30ml bottle = 600 drops...

at concentration of 6.6 drops per 100mcg (per yada)

600 drops (30ml bottle) would = 9000 mcg or 9 mg.

Of course this is a lot of assumptions.....

[Hebbeh]

........unless they like the scent of dragon breath.......

Due to heavy work load, I had planned on postponing testing until the weekend. Fortunately (unfortunately ?) I also have a "first date" lined up for the weekend....and what I'm hearing is this may not be good timing with respect to compatible activities?

Also DMSO seems to be somewhat safe orally. http://www.webmd.com...ETHYLSULFOXIDE)

BTW...thanks for the valuable insight and first hand user experiences MizTen!

It had a pretty strong "body effect" along with changes in focus and impulses, so with the breath issue, I wouldn't risk it for a first date. Unless your date is very open minded and also takes it...

Then things might get pretty interesting.

Maybe the breath part was worse for me due to my dosage or the fact that I am very sensitive to odors, IDK.

Have fun!

That sounds more like trouble than fun!!! I better pass for now. That's why I was reluctant to test it around the boss!
Appreciate the valuable insight as always Mizten!

[phil8462643]

yadayada, can you confirm how much bpap we are getting?
is it 10mg
or 100mg
If it is 10mg, why did we pay 200 dollars?
(I paid 240 BTW)
Also did you say they gave you a 1g sample?

[Multicultural Harmony]

Why use DMSO as the solvent?

On a side note, I seriously hate reading. When I find what I'm looking for I won't read another research paper for a very long time.

[golden1]

does it compare well to anything else? been curious about bpap for years, if anyone gets the chance to detail it further I'd be interested in hearing

[Reformed-Redan]

yadayada, can you confirm how much bpap we are getting?
is it 10mg
or 100mg
If it is 10mg, why did we pay 200 dollars?
(I paid 240 BTW)
Also did you say they gave you a 1g sample?

It is 100mg from what I've been told. Also, the initial amount was never written in stone. I don't think you could find BPAP anywhere else for such a price. Anyway, sorry if you're disspointed. I'm certainly not.

[sparkk51]

yadayada, can you confirm how much bpap we are getting?
is it 10mg
or 100mg
If it is 10mg, why did we pay 200 dollars?
(I paid 240 BTW)
Also did you say they gave you a 1g sample?

It is 100mg from what I've been told. Also, the initial amount was never written in stone. I don't think you could find BPAP anywhere else for such a price. Anyway, sorry if you're disspointed. I'm certainly not.

I'm pretty sure we need to know because we want to know how much to dose.

[sparkk51]

My dropper is stuck in the frozen solution after I take it out of the fridge. Is it alright to let this stuff thaw every time I use it? Otherwise, I don't know how to go about this. I could keep the dropper separate from the bottle, but then I'd need to know what I can cover the bottle with in place of it.

[uralsky]

yadayada, can you confirm how much bpap we are getting?
is it 10mg
or 100mg
If it is 10mg, why did we pay 200 dollars?
(I paid 240 BTW)
Also did you say they gave you a 1g sample?

It is 100mg from what I've been told. Also, the initial amount was never written in stone. I don't think you could find BPAP anywhere else for such a price. Anyway, sorry if you're disspointed. I'm certainly not.

so we have 100mg in 30 mL. 6 drops then would be ~1 mg, not 100 ug. And all people now are overdosing 10x over?

[Reformed-Redan]

yadayada, can you confirm how much bpap we are getting?
is it 10mg
or 100mg
If it is 10mg, why did we pay 200 dollars?
(I paid 240 BTW)
Also did you say they gave you a 1g sample?

It is 100mg from what I've been told. Also, the initial amount was never written in stone. I don't think you could find BPAP anywhere else for such a price. Anyway, sorry if you're disspointed. I'm certainly not.

so we have 100mg in 30 mL. 6 drops then would be ~1 mg, not 100 ug. And all people now are overdosing 10x over?

Let me find out from the supplier. Just a moment please.

[sparkk51]

I hope 2-3 drops is OD, because at that dose I get insomnia. I take it 12 hours before bed mind you.

[billysundays]

Its starting to become obvious what a huge disappointment this whole BPAP venture really is. First of all, how many times do people here need ask the correct potency of this solution before it dawns on all of you that this should not be a question that needs to be resolved to begin with, and it shouldn't be this hard to get a straight answer, regardless of whether or not it eventually does become answered. How is no one sure of what they're getting for gods sakes?

Second, how many times does it have to be asked why is this drug being delivered in a liquid solution before before you all can accept that this is a legitimate question? And why DMSO? There's no benefit to using DMSO in this case, just a bunch of negatives. The BPAP could have just as easily been diluted with a filler powder, such as maltodextrin or what have you, that you guys could have weighed out doses with your scales. Or they could have simply delivered you the pure product, which the end user could have then diluted themselves to make it easier to measure. Instead, what you've gotton is a reeking, leaking, freezing mess.

And finally, the only experience reports posted so far describe a very underwhelming effect. Sleepy??? Did that guy say it made him SLEEPY??? "a big increase in laziness and procrastination, possibly partly due to the holidays". Wow. Its not product degradation dude, I'm sorry. The most glowing review (from datrat),"-I'm not sure if it's just a placebo effect, but regardless, it's pretty nice". That whole paragraph describes an effect that's meh, and probably only that good because of a placebo effect. What you guys are describing makes it a strong probability that what you actually have is some sort of serotonergic, such as methylone. And that this whole DMSO business is probably to deter any attempt at lab testing the contents.

So either BPAP sucks or this venture was a scam. Oh, can anybody point me to some experience reports of BPAP by Wakfer, because I can't find any.

[sparkk51]

Its starting to become obvious what a huge disappointment this whole BPAP venture really is. First of all, how many times do people here need ask the correct potency of this solution before it dawns on all of you that this should not be a question that needs to be resolved to begin with, and it shouldn't be this hard to get a straight answer, regardless of whether or not it eventually does become answered. How is no one sure of what they're getting for gods sakes?

Second, how many times does it have to be asked why is this drug being delivered in a liquid solution before before you all can accept that this is a legitimate question? And why DMSO? There's no benefit to using DMSO in this case, just a bunch of negatives. The BPAP could have just as easily been diluted with a filler powder, such as maltodextrin or what have you, that you guys could have weighed out doses with your scales. Or they could have simply delivered you the pure product, which the end user could have then diluted themselves to make it easier to measure. Instead, what you've gotton is a reeking, leaking, freezing mess.

And finally, the only experience reports posted so far describe a very underwhelming effect. Sleepy??? Did that guy say it made him SLEEPY??? "a big increase in laziness and procrastination, possibly partly due to the holidays". Wow. Its not product degradation dude, I'm sorry. The most glowing review (from datrat),"-I'm not sure if it's just a placebo effect, but regardless, it's pretty nice". That whole paragraph describes an effect that's meh, and probably only that good because of a placebo effect. What you guys are describing makes it a strong probability that what you actually have is some sort of serotonergic, such as methylone. And that this whole DMSO business is probably to deter any attempt at lab testing the contents.

So either BPAP sucks or this venture was a scam. Oh, can anybody point me to some experience reports of BPAP by Wakfer, because I can't find any.

Being a dumbass when it comes to chemistry, whether we can test this stuff is the question I wondered the most and it seems we wont be able to. If that's the case, how can we know if what we have really is BPAP? It's simple, we can't! Reported experiences with this stuff mean jack shit if we can't be sure what we're getting is the real deal. I really don't want to give up on this drug so I am in for another buy if that ever becomes possible.

Edited by sparkk51, 05 January 2014 - 01:18 AM.