387 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

Its starting to become obvious what a huge disappointment this whole BPAP venture really is. First of all, how many times do people here need ask the correct potency of this solution before it dawns on all of you that this should not be a question that needs to be resolved to begin with, and it shouldn't be this hard to get a straight answer, regardless of whether or not it eventually does become answered. How is no one sure of what they're getting for gods sakes?

Second, how many times does it have to be asked why is this drug being delivered in a liquid solution before before you all can accept that this is a legitimate question? And why DMSO? There's no benefit to using DMSO in this case, just a bunch of negatives. The BPAP could have just as easily been diluted with a filler powder, such as maltodextrin or what have you, that you guys could have weighed out doses with your scales. Or they could have simply delivered you the pure product, which the end user could have then diluted themselves to make it easier to measure. Instead, what you've gotton is a reeking, leaking, freezing mess.

And finally, the only experience reports posted so far describe a very underwhelming effect. Sleepy??? Did that guy say it made him SLEEPY??? "a big increase in laziness and procrastination, possibly partly due to the holidays". Wow. Its not product degradation dude, I'm sorry. The most glowing review (from datrat),"-I'm not sure if it's just a placebo effect, but regardless, it's pretty nice". That whole paragraph describes an effect that's meh, and probably only that good because of a placebo effect. What you guys are describing makes it a strong probability that what you actually have is some sort of serotonergic, such as methylone. And that this whole DMSO business is probably to deter any attempt at lab testing the contents.

So either BPAP sucks or this venture was a scam. Oh, can anybody point me to some experience reports of BPAP by Wakfer, because I can't find any.

lol, time to burn the straw man down:

The solution has potency of 300mcg per ml.

The reason why nobody got 1g was because the yields were poor and making BPAP was much harder than anticipated.

The solution was made so that it could be possible to measure out 100mcg. That is the active dose, 100 micrograms. Try measuring that out with whatever commerically available instrument you can get.

DMSO was the solution because BPAP would not dissolve in water and the supplier woulnd'y use alcohol based solvent either in regards to issues with degradation. DMSO is an aprotic solvent which should maximize BPAP's shelf-life, so that is what the supplier went with.

If anyone is unhappy my supplier has requested that you contact me for further details. I'm still happy I got a viable route for BPAP done. All that can be done now is figuring out the best possible formulation for BPAP as to preserve it and maybe even try and make some analogues that aren't susceptible to degradation.

[chemicalambrosia]

Its starting to become obvious what a huge disappointment this whole BPAP venture really is. First of all, how many times do people here need ask the correct potency of this solution before it dawns on all of you that this should not be a question that needs to be resolved to begin with, and it shouldn't be this hard to get a straight answer, regardless of whether or not it eventually does become answered. How is no one sure of what they're getting for gods sakes?

Well, equally bad as the concentration of this being an open question is that without knowing the concentration people are dosing it blindly. It supposedly had a u-shaped dosing curve, so that probably isn't good.

Second, how many times does it have to be asked why is this drug being delivered in a liquid solution before before you all can accept that this is a legitimate question? And why DMSO? There's no benefit to using DMSO in this case, just a bunch of negatives. The BPAP could have just as easily been diluted with a filler powder, such as maltodextrin or what have you, that you guys could have weighed out doses with your scales. Or they could have simply delivered you the pure product, which the end user could have then diluted themselves to make it easier to measure. Instead, what you've gotton is a reeking, leaking, freezing mess.

http://www.longecity...150#entry624985

And finally, the only experience reports posted so far describe a very underwhelming effect. Sleepy??? Did that guy say it made him SLEEPY??? "a big increase in laziness and procrastination, possibly partly due to the holidays". Wow. Its not product degradation dude, I'm sorry. The most glowing review (from datrat),"-I'm not sure if it's just a placebo effect, but regardless, it's pretty nice". That whole paragraph describes an effect that's meh, and probably only that good because of a placebo effect. What you guys are describing makes it a strong probability that what you actually have is some sort of serotonergic, such as methylone. And that this whole DMSO business is probably to deter any attempt at lab testing the contents.

So wait, do you think its placebo or an illegal recreational drug(looked up methylone btw, we're talking active dose of 100mcg or 1mg for BPAP, methylone was 100mg... 6 drops probably wouldn't do much)? Hey, lets just start throwing random shit out there. There was too much clarity here Billy, thanks for the help.

So either BPAP sucks or this venture was a scam. Oh, can anybody point me to some experience reports of BPAP by Wakfer, because I can't find any.

This hasn't turned out as planned, but it doesn't fit as a scam(why wait forever to send out bottles of solution? The only reason would be if there was trouble with the synthesis, which certainly fits if you look at the post I linked to.) Though I haven't tried it yet, its too early to say whether bpap sucks or not. Once I become somewhat reasonably comfortable with how much each BPAP each ml of DMSO solution may or might contain I'll probably give it a try. I'm not much of one for placebo effect, but after how much I paid for this I might hop on the placebo bandwagon.

Anyways, if more background research had been done before we commissioned this group buy we could have prevented a lot of headache. We didn't do that though, and yadayada and his supplier did their best. Thanks to yadayada and Q did it. We can all share in the blame of getting into this without knowing more of what we were doing here.

[sparkk51]

So 6.66 drops is the dose.

[Reformed-Redan]

So 6.66 drops is the dose.

Yes. I tried with 6 and felt fine.

[xks201]

i have BPAP from another source. It is mildly stimulating. Sort of an introverted extremely mild high. It seems to last a few hours with lingering effects for several hours after that. Mine came in a powder and liquid mix. There was no DMSO, but I imagine the DMSO would only enhance absorption.

Edited by xks201, 05 January 2014 - 02:21 AM.

[uralsky]

The solution has potency of 300mcg per ml.

The reason why nobody got 1g was because the yields were poor and making BPAP was much harder than anticipated.

The solution was made so that it could be possible to measure out 100mcg. That is the active dose, 100 micrograms.

Fair enough. Just to confirm that we get not 1g, not 100 mg, but 10mg of staff total, at a price of $20,000 per g. Are you sure you have your 1 g sample?

I understand that DMSO had some benefits for chemists. My personal experience after the first dose was three days of DMSO smelly fart. Planning to dry it out. Yes, it is possible, drop at a time.

[Reformed-Redan]

The solution has potency of 300mcg per ml.

The reason why nobody got 1g was because the yields were poor and making BPAP was much harder than anticipated.

The solution was made so that it could be possible to measure out 100mcg. That is the active dose, 100 micrograms.

Fair enough. Just to confirm that we get not 1g, not 100 mg, but 10mg of staff total, at a price of $20,000 per g. Are you sure you have your 1 g sample?

I understand that DMSO had some benefits for chemists. My personal experience after the first dose was three days of DMSO smelly fart. Planning to dry it out. Yes, it is possible, drop at a time.

Well the yields were not very promising. 1g would be useless. You'd at most consume 1/1000 of it before the compound degraded. I didn;t have knowledge in advance about how the synthesis would go or such and such. Payments were made, the compound synthesized and you dont exactly get what you paid for; but, you do get the opportunnity to try something almost untested so far. Personally the effects are very positive IMHO. It might be the taste of the DMSO that is a turnoff; but, idc. As long as the compound works. xks description is pretty close. It's like an internal sense of happiness. Like you want to shout or scream or something, lol.

[phil8462643]

20,000 a gram! WOW! That's expensive! Chinese too!
Paul Wakfer sells it for half that!
We got ripped off.
I want the contact details of this lab.
Yadayada, I want the contact details of this lab.
What is the name of the lab?

Edited by phil8462643, 05 January 2014 - 04:25 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

I've contacted the lab. The supplier indicated that he can send out 2-3 vials of (-)-BPAP to everyone who participated in the group buy since he improved the yields. I will be going over the address list for you guys so that he can send it out to you all.

BTW, I have no idea where to send the BPAP to you phil. Where are you at after all?

Edited by yadayada, 05 January 2014 - 05:12 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

The solution has potency of 300mcg per ml.

The reason why nobody got 1g was because the yields were poor and making BPAP was much harder than anticipated.

The solution was made so that it could be possible to measure out 100mcg. That is the active dose, 100 micrograms.

Fair enough. Just to confirm that we get not 1g, not 100 mg, but 10mg of staff total, at a price of $20,000 per g. Are you sure you have your 1 g sample?

I understand that DMSO had some benefits for chemists. My personal experience after the first dose was three days of DMSO smelly fart. Planning to dry it out. Yes, it is possible, drop at a time.

Where did you come up with the 20000 figure?

[Reformed-Redan]

Also a side note. If any of your rats have a mental illness, like BPD, suicidal tendencies, mania, etc.-I would definitely not take BPAP. I don't want to be held accountable for reckless behavior, not that I would; but, worth putting out there. Poor rats, :D

Edited by yadayada, 05 January 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[lourdaud]

Anyone want to take my share? Still hasn't been sent out to me, hope it'd be ok with yadayada to ship it to you directly in that case.

[Reformed-Redan]

Guys and gals. I don't understand where is all the unhappiness coming from? Were expectations for BPAP really that high? I for one am amazed at getting things this far. From reading a compound on wikipedia and research from Dr. Joseph Knoll to actually having it produced and then obtaining it? Well, that's nothing short of sucess. On the other hand, I'm sorry I'm not God and can't have the effects be as awesome for anyone else apart from myself. I'm also sorry for not being able to change the laws of furanic degradation. Alas, at least we have BPAP! Well, again if anyone has any insurmountable problems strictly related to BPAP, send me a PM and I'll see what we can do.

[Reformed-Redan]

OK, anyone who isnt satisfied with what they got PM me with details of what exactly the problem is. I'm trying to help here. If you got less than expected then I can have the supplier send out 2-3 extra vials and you can keep the extra one's frozen and use 1 at a time. Oh, and "I don't like the effects on my rats" isn't a suffiecient reason.

[Reformed-Redan]

Uralsky, I send you a PM regarding getting the vial with less than expected BPAP. I hope we can sort things out. Thank you.

[Reformed-Redan]

So,
I'll wait till the 10'th of this month untill I get all PM's regarding BPAP. So, now I'm the complaint management center. Bring it ON! lol.

Edited by yadayada, 05 January 2014 - 05:30 PM.

[Hebbeh]

I've contacted the lab. The supplier indicated that he can send out 2-3 vials of (-)-BPAP to everyone who participated in the group buy since he improved the yields. I will be going over the address list for you guys so that he can send it out to you all.

BTW, I have no idea where to send the BPAP to you phil. Where are you at after all?

I'm confused. Is the supplier going to make good and send out additional vials or do we need to pm and request them?

[Reformed-Redan]

I've contacted the lab. The supplier indicated that he can send out 2-3 vials of (-)-BPAP to everyone who participated in the group buy since he improved the yields. I will be going over the address list for you guys so that he can send it out to you all.

BTW, I have no idea where to send the BPAP to you phil. Where are you at after all?

I'm confused. Is the supplier going to make good and send out additional vials or do we need to pm and request them?

Anyone who PM's. I don't know if anyone died since Q did it! send out the vials or since the start of the group buy. Money doesn't grow on trees.

[golden1]

I've contacted the lab. The supplier indicated that he can send out 2-3 vials of (-)-BPAP to everyone who participated in the group buy since he improved the yields. I will be going over the address list for you guys so that he can send it out to you all.

BTW, I have no idea where to send the BPAP to you phil. Where are you at after all?

Lol what an odd thread, why the edit from "he can send out 1g" To "he can send out 2-3vials" isn't that a big difference?

[Reformed-Redan]

I've contacted the lab. The supplier indicated that he can send out 2-3 vials of (-)-BPAP to everyone who participated in the group buy since he improved the yields. I will be going over the address list for you guys so that he can send it out to you all.

BTW, I have no idea where to send the BPAP to you phil. Where are you at after all?

Lol what an odd thread, why the edit from "he can send out 1g" To "he can send out 2-3vials" isn't that a big difference?

Yes, because we don't have confidence that someone might decide to dilute it into DMSO and sell it for themselves. Besides nobody could go through 1g before it degrades let alone dose it properly. 2-3 vials should be enough. Store 2 in a fridge and use 1, repeat for 1-1, then 1.

[Reformed-Redan]

If anyone has stable lab rats and wants to see more potent results for ADD or anything else, methinks Selegiline and BPAP can work in a very synergistic effect producing sustained attention and focus along with a nice DA 'high' for quite a while at pennies a day.

[uralsky]

Fair enough. Just to confirm that we get not 1g, not 100 mg, but 10mg of staff total, at a price of $20,000 per g. Are you sure you have your 1 g sample?

Where did you come up with the 20000 figure?

Did not we pay $200 each for 10 mg?

[Reformed-Redan]

Fair enough. Just to confirm that we get not 1g, not 100 mg, but 10mg of staff total, at a price of $20,000 per g. Are you sure you have your 1 g sample?

Where did you come up with the 20000 figure?

Did not we pay $200 each for 10 mg?

Was that written in stone?
No.
Did you sign a contract?
No.
Was it an informal agreement?
Yes.
Did you get the product?
Yes.
Did you get as much as was informally agreed on?
No.
Did I make amends by offering to send out more vials?
Yes.

So, what do you want to complain about now?

[uralsky]

ok
Although it was never explicitly said that the total amount in the bottle was supposed to be 10 mg, it was never denied either.
That means if dosed at 100 mcg a day that would last about 3 month. I recall that the idea to use DMSO was suggested so to improve stability for years. It looks like it is not as much a concern anymore?
People who will receive additional bottles: do we want to discuss in what form we want to get it?
I suggest dried BPAP. Each user can dissolve it upon receiving in a solvent of liking.
It can be DMSO, perhaps less volume. Dilute more in alcohol for short term storage.

Another option is to have it as powder mixed with neutral filler. (may be not possible as pure BPAP could be an oily substance)

Separate question deserves discussion is what is actual stability of BPAP in different solvents.
It is known that furan derivatives can be unstable in presence of acids, oxygen, but is considered to be stable in alkali.
Benzofuran though (as BPAP is derivative of) is more stable generally. It is a component of coal tar.
So perhaps a pinch of baking soda would help to store BPAP in alcohol solvent like vodka? It would also allow to store in a freezer without freezing it.

Anyone has more info on stability?

[uralsky]

Fair enough. Just to confirm that we get not 1g, not 100 mg, but 10mg of staff total, at a price of $20,000 per g. Are you sure you have your 1 g sample?

Where did you come up with the 20000 figure?

Did not we pay $200 each for 10 mg?

Was that written in stone?
No.
Did you sign a contract?
No.
Was it an informal agreement?
Yes.
Did you get the product?
Yes.
Did you get as much as was informally agreed on?
No.
Did I make amends by offering to send out more vials?
Yes.

So, what do you want to complain about now?

Come on yadayada. I just answered your question. Does it look like complaining?
Please understand. After waiting for so long I want to be sure I dose it right.
So far I am not.

[Reformed-Redan]

ok
Although it was never explicitly said that the total amount in the bottle was supposed to be 10 mg, it was never denied either.
That means if dosed at 100 mcg a day that would last about 3 month. I recall that the idea to use DMSO was suggested so to improve stability for years. It looks like it is not as much a concern anymore?
People who will receive additional bottles: do we want to discuss in what form we want to get it?
I suggest dried BPAP. Each user can dissolve it upon receiving in a solvent of liking.
It can be DMSO, perhaps less volume. Dilute more in alcohol for short term storage.

Another option is to have it as powder mixed with neutral filler. (may be not possible as pure BPAP could be an oily substance)

Separate question deserves discussion is what is actual stability of BPAP in different solvents.
It is known that furan derivatives can be unstable in presence of acids, oxygen, but is considered to be stable in alkali.
Benzofuran though (as BPAP is derivative of) is more stable generally. It is a component of coal tar.
So perhaps a pinch of baking soda would help to store BPAP in alcohol solvent like vodka? It would also allow to store in a freezer without freezing it.

Anyone has more info on stability?

Mind you, the supplier burt through all the cash and took out of his own pocket a hefty sum. BPAP was no easy thing to make. BPAP will be sent in DMSO vials. I already sent you a PM about this. If you can we can disscuss all the above there.

Fair enough. Just to confirm that we get not 1g, not 100 mg, but 10mg of staff total, at a price of $20,000 per g. Are you sure you have your 1 g sample?

Where did you come up with the 20000 figure?

Did not we pay $200 each for 10 mg?

Was that written in stone?
No.
Did you sign a contract?
No.
Was it an informal agreement?
Yes.
Did you get the product?
Yes.
Did you get as much as was informally agreed on?
No.
Did I make amends by offering to send out more vials?
Yes.

So, what do you want to complain about now?

Come on yadayada. I just answered your question. Does it look like complaining?
Please understand. After waiting for so long I want to be sure I dose it right.
So far I am not.

I told you the concentration of BPAP in DMSO that you got. It's 6.6 drops for optimal dose. 6 drops had a positive effect on me. We can talk about thin in PM?

Edited by yadayada, 05 January 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[aarfai]

Yada, what dosages and effects are you getting from combining Selegiline and BPAP?

[uralsky]

Let me explain why I am not confident yet.
As we established now the manufacturer was able to provide each customer with only 10 mg of BPAP due to unforeseen difficulties in the syntheses. At the same time they provided 1g free sample for testing. I just dont see how it fits together.
I suspect the amount in each bottle is actually 100mg, that would make more sense. If it is, I want to know for sure.

I apologize if I sound like complaining or unappreciative of the organizers efforts. Hope it is not the last group buy here.

[Reformed-Redan]

Yada, what dosages and effects are you getting from combining Selegiline and BPAP?

I haven't combined BPAP yet with Selegiline. I ran out of selegiline a while ago. Anyone willing to send me spare change to reorder some deprenyl (25USD)? My rats are willing; but, somewhat unable. lol

[Nobility]

Hi,

May I please ask, have you tried BPAP?.

What is it like?

Thank You.