17 replies to this topic

[MrSan]

Based on the scientific studies I have read and the testimonials of people from this forum, I have decided to take 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine.

Goals: Feel well-rested each morning, feel motivated.

5-HTP: 30 mg.
L-Tyrosine: 300 mg.
N-Acetyl L-Cysteine: 3000 mg.
Vitamin C: 1000 mg.
Calcium: 1200 mg.
Magnesium: 1000 mg. [1]
Folic acid: 10 mg.
+All the other vitamin Bs.

Selenium: 220 mcg.
Zinc: 50 mg.

Personal experience
Melatonin: Worked wonders for the bouts of insomnia I have. Therefore I'll try to supplement with 5-HTP.
Zinc: I felt a mild euphoria after three days of supplementing with 15/15/45 mg of zinc, respectively.

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Anything that you would change?
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http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18242592

Edited by MrSan, 31 May 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[MercuryAX]

I would probably have a higher ratio of magnesium to calcium, as this is preferred for brain function. Make sure to be taking supplements either with or without food based on what they are. Vitamins and metals should be taken with food, amino acids should be taken without food. Adding ALCAR and taking it at night makes me feel a bit stronger in the morning, and it's probably one of the best supplements to take overall. 5-HTP shouldn't be taken every day, as chronic usage can lower dopamine levels in the long run. It's really a nice substance though - it helps me with stressful times when needed and it is very consistent.

[gail2]

This sounds very similar to the combination I'm taking for sleep except at much higher doses. I'm using the ingredients that are in the NeuroReplete and CysReplete products developed by Dr Marty Hinz. So far it seems to be helping a little but I'm hoping for a better response over time. Hinz says it takes 2 to 6 weeks to fix your sleep after you optimize serotonin and dopamine levels using these supplements. How is it working for you?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3415362/
http://www.doctorvol...7675b6005c79977
http://www.doctorvol...s-replete-large

Gail

[Tom_]

I wouldn't use 5HTP as its been on occation associated with heart valve defects and other nasties. It also doesn't cross the BBB as effectivly as your other option.

The dose you are using is way to small to have any real effect.

I would supplement the 5HTP for L-tryptophan. At dose between 1 and 5 grams. Combinding it with v6 and vit c will enable a faster crossing of the BBB. L-tryptohan has been approved for depression while 5HTP has not been approved for anything - this should hopefully give a rough idea as to the difference in evidence base.

The NAC is a high dosage and most people would suggest taking 3x as much vit c as NAC to reduce the increased risk of kindey stones. I also don't really see the use in NAC for the sole aim of feeling more awake.

I'd also recommend using melatonin each night if you only want to wake up feeling more refreshed.

Sleep hygine however will make the biggest difference.

I don't undersand the use of many of the other minerals you are using. In general the evidence base for them is nill.

I forgot I would also recommennd doses of L-tyrosine be at least 500mg and doses of up to 2000mg are perfectly fine.

What theory are you working on?

[MrSan]

This sounds very similar to the combination I'm taking for sleep except at much higher doses. I'm using the ingredients that are in the NeuroReplete and CysReplete products developed by Dr Marty Hinz. So far it seems to be helping a little but I'm hoping for a better response over time. Hinz says it takes 2 to 6 weeks to fix your sleep after you optimize serotonin and dopamine levels using these supplements. How is it working for you?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3415362/
http://www.doctorvol...7675b6005c79977
http://www.doctorvol...s-replete-large

Gail

I have been taking L-Tyrosine for a few days now and it seems to be working. Melatonin works really well for me, 3mg and I can barely keep my eyes open.

I wouldn't use 5HTP as its been on occation associated with heart valve defects and other nasties. It also doesn't cross the BBB as effectivly as your other option.

The dose you are using is way to small to have any real effect.

I would supplement the 5HTP for L-tryptophan. At dose between 1 and 5 grams. Combinding it with v6 and vit c will enable a faster crossing of the BBB. L-tryptohan has been approved for depression while 5HTP has not been approved for anything - this should hopefully give a rough idea as to the difference in evidence base.

The NAC is a high dosage and most people would suggest taking 3x as much vit c as NAC to reduce the increased risk of kindey stones. I also don't really see the use in NAC for the sole aim of feeling more awake.

I'd also recommend using melatonin each night if you only want to wake up feeling more refreshed.

Sleep hygine however will make the biggest difference.

I don't undersand the use of many of the other minerals you are using. In general the evidence base for them is nill.

I forgot I would also recommennd doses of L-tyrosine be at least 500mg and doses of up to 2000mg are perfectly fine.

What theory are you working on?

http://www.life-enha...cts-and-fiction
http://www.vrp.com/s...onin-deficiency
I could not find any evidence of heart valve defects caused by 5-HTP.

Melatonin works really well for me in feeling more refreshed and reducing sleep onset time.


Tyrosine in dosages of 1000mg-2000mg works much better for the purposes I outlined.

Thank you for the advice. Some of the minerals I take for other purposes than feeling awake and such, I forgot to mention that.

Edited by MrSan, 09 June 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[renfr]

Why are you combining 5HTP with L tyrosine? They act against each other.

[MrSan]

Why are you combining 5HTP with L tyrosine? They act against each other.

5-HTP in the evening and L-Tyrosine in the morning to prevent them from competing with each other.

5-HTP allegedly causes dopamine depletion, so I am taking additional L-Tyrosine to counteract this.
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Would it be better to take 1500 mg of NAC to boost immune function and glutathione levels with 2000 mg of vitamin C? 4500mg vitamin c seems to be an awfully high dosage.

[Tom_]

There interactions are way more complex that up-down. Insulin resistance and heart valve defects have been associated. I'll link when I have the time.

A mix of melatonin and tryptophan and maybe bright light therapy will improve your sleep..i see very little point in what you are suggesting at the moment.

[gail2]

Hi Tom,

If you've looked at the paper in my link above, I'd be interested in your take on it. I'm trying Hinz's program but I can't find any feedback online from other people who are doing it. It seems to be helping my severe sleep problems a bit but I haven't been doing it long enough to say for sure.

Thanks,

Gail

[Tom_]

Can you give me a run down of your sleep problems, past medical/psych history, how old you are, how much you weigh and if there is any family history including yourself of mental disorder, drug abuse etc.

[Tom_]

That wasn't as clear as it should have been.

When did the problem start, is it cyclic, is it related to something does it happen at night before you sleep or after?

[gail2]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your response. What I'm looking for is an assessment of the evidence Hinz offers for his program which I'm committed to for the time being. I thought maybe you were familiar with it since you commented on 5HTP and tyrosine which are the basis for his program. He has many more papers online besides the one I linked to but they're too technical for me to understand.

http://hinzmd.com/

Thanks,

Gail

[Tom_]

I'm not intimately familier with the paticular treatment but the guy is a crackpot.The 5htp can be better relpased with L-tryptophan. The tryosine can be better relpased with DLPA. NAC has a poorly understood mechanism to the point I would consider it a thirdline treatment. zinc sits in glutemergic neurons and at to high doses become toxic. caslsum makes little difference and b vits in general wake you up.

There can be no evidence to support that.

Edited by Tom_, 11 June 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[gail2]

Why do you call him a crackpot? Have you read his work? Have you seen the details of his program?

What evidence is there that tryptophan is better than 5HTP or DLPA is better than tyrosine?

He doesn't use NAC or zinc or caslsum.

[MrSan]

There interactions are way more complex that up-down. Insulin resistance and heart valve defects have been associated. I'll link when I have the time.

A mix of melatonin and tryptophan and maybe bright light therapy will improve your sleep..i see very little point in what you are suggesting at the moment.

I haven't read many scientific studies on how 5-HTP and Tyrosine affect levels of dopamine and serotonin when taken together. I really only have anecdotal evidence to go by, which I was led to believe was true.

I used this http://criticalmas.c...and-l-tyrosine/.

According to the author of the book, the following supplements should be taken alongside 5-HTP for safety.

• Vitamin C: 1,000 mg / day
• Vitamin B6: 75 mg/ day
• Calcium: 500 mg/ day
• Cysteine: 4,500 mg/ day (divided doses)
• Selenium: 400 mcg / day
• Folic Acid: 2,000 – 3,000 mcg / day

Edited by MrSan, 11 June 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[gail2]

MrSan,

The supplements you listed were not taken from the Mood Cure. They are from Dr. Kalish, as described in the post you linked to. Dr. Kalish got this program from Dr. Hinz, who trained him and with whom he consults regularly.

Gail

[Tom_]

http://hinzmd.com/15...eficiencies.pdf The first page. Change in neuronal firing leads to a change in wiring, even if you were to normalze it there is no reason it would return back to normal.

"There is no documentation illustrating that merely establishing normal synaptic neurotransmitter levels is effective in correcting an electrical defect." and his evidence for the claim is...? Hes claiming common meds don't increase synaptic concertrations more than to 'normal', which varies greatly anyway.

"In patients suffering from chronic monoamine-related disease, there is permanent damage to the structures of the postsynaptic neurons that conduct electricity" plain bullshit.

L-dopa and 5-HTP are freely synthesized to dopamine and serotonin...very interesting GIVE EVERYONE NUROTOXINS.

Got bored now

[gail2]

Tom,

Thanks for your post. I have no medical background so it's hard for me to judge Hinz's work. As a layperson, what I understand makes sense but there's a lot I don't understand. It's hard to tell if he's legitimate or just trying to sell more of his proprietary supplements. OTOH, he provides the information for free online so it's easy to purchase the ingredients yourself for much less money. It's also hard since there are few reports online from people who use his program. One I found today is from a pharmacist with Parkinson's Disease who uses his program successfully.

http://neurotalk.psy...t960613-22.html

I hope more people will weigh in on this subject so the discussion can continue.

Gail