196 replies to this topic

[JR7]

Oh no..... I would love to see the information discussed here

[Luddist]

This is a discussion forum, and we'd all love to hear another perspective. Please share.

[solarfingers]

Momentarily not, I used to have one many years ago but it is no longer relevant. I can discuss my choices with you in private it's no problem that way we don't hijack the thread.

I opened this thread with an invitation for anyone to chime in and add supplements they thought would benefit in reaching the 7 SENS targets. There is no way that you can hijack a thread if you are discussing your supplements. I encourage that. What do the supplements in your regimen provide? I can see a little duplication from the spreadsheet but mostly your supplements are new to me. When I have time I will likely research them but for now I am tied up prepping for certification exams.

Thanks!

[balance]

Sure, no problem.

Hmm I'm surprised you consider it all that different from yours. Most should be very familiar, only a few ones that you aren't taking or are taking in a different form. So let's skip the ones you already take and discuss that which you have questions about, I'll be happy to answer them for you where I can.

[solarfingers]

Sure, no problem.

Hmm I'm surprised you consider it all that different from yours. Most should be very familiar, only a few ones that you aren't taking or are taking in a different form. So let's skip the ones you already take and discuss that which you have questions about, I'll be happy to answer them for you where I can.

Game... What's the purpose of TMG?

[balance]

Game... What's the purpose of TMG?

Lowering Homocysteine.

[solarfingers]

Game... What's the purpose of TMG?

Lowering Homocysteine.

That sounds exciting... What's the negative effect of Homocysteine that requires we lower it?

[Luddist]

Game... What's the purpose of TMG?

Lowering Homocysteine.

That sounds exciting... What's the negative effect of Homocysteine that requires we lower it?

LEF has a page on it, referencing lots of associations of higher homocysteine levels with cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer's. http://www.lef.org/m...ort_risk_01.htm

But to throw some contrarian evidence in the mix, this came up with a quick search of Pubmed for "homocysteine longevity." This study on super centenarians from Sicily who tend to have high homocysteine levels. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15080565

This 2013 review concludes interventions for lowering homocysteine do nothing to prevent related diseases. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23440809

Maybe the association of higher homocysteine in the studies LEF cites isn't necessarily causative. Although I'm new to searching Pubmed, so if anyone can find more meta analyses on the subject, post 'em.

Edited by Luddist, 24 July 2013 - 08:20 PM.

[solarfingers]

This 2013 review concludes interventions for lowering homocysteine do nothing to prevent related diseases. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23440809

Wouldn't this indicate that it's a red herring?

[balance]

This review concludes interventions for lowering homocysteine do nothing to prevent related diseases. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23440809

Maybe the association of higher homocysteine in the studies LEF cites isn't necessarily causative.

The reason it did not prevent disease is that it is only one of at least 20 cardiovascular risk factors.

[solarfingers]

Piet3r, It looks as if TMG may have some positive benefits. Do you have any citations that associate it with reducing cardiovascular disease? Thanks!

[balance]

Sure. When opening these look at their references and use those. LEF tends to over hype things out of proportion but I found the bulk of the references in these articles useful.

http://www.lef.org/m...cysteine_01.htm

http://www.lef.org/m...ort_risk_01.htm

http://www.lef.org/m...cysteine_01.htm

http://www.lef.org/m...003_awsi_01.htm

http://www.lef.org/m...-Factors_01.htm


http://drlwilson.com...THYLGLYCINE.htm

http://www.arrowhead...rks.com/TMG.htm

http://www.examiner....er-homocysteine

[solarfingers]

Piet3r,

It looks like a notable supplement. Do you see any way that it aids in addressing any of the seven SENS targets?

Thanks

[balance]

When people like Aubrey de Grey say that they think supplements don't work, they are right that in the grand scheme of things they won't be significant. A single pill won't grant 20-200 extra years of life. That said, I think they are forgetting that every tiny bit does help, and since cardiovascular disease is killer number 1, it seems wise to do what you can. At the end of the day we wouldn't want to have a stroke and be brain dead or paralyzed and live another 10+ years.. So quality of life is equally important. Given that TMG is an incredibly cheap supplement that you can get in potent 1000mg tablets (meaning you won't have to take like 20 tablets a day) I feel it has its place here. Read over those sources I gave you, I'll be curious what your opinion will be.
By the way, I am starting to develop my own ideas about aging and feel that a totally underestimated area is alkalinity/acidity. Most of the focus is on bone health, but when we look at total teeth/mouth health, you automatically get the benefits for bones, muscles, joints too. This will benefit cardiovascular health, cancer risk, diabetes, and cognitive diseases. I'm sure using those strategies will increase your life span, but even if they don't, they will certainly improve the quality of your physical and mental health.
If you read Russell L. Blaylock's Health And Nutrition Secrets That Can Save Your Life, second edition and read Ramiel Nagel's Cure Tooth Decay: Heal And Prevent Cavities With Nutrition, second edition, you will understand what I'm talking about. They were huge eye openers for me even though I personally feel I've read myself silly on nutrition, exercise, health/diseases and supplements over the last 8 years. The latter book will contain some critical mistakes (particularly about bacteria not being a main cause, which it is, but there are good insights to be found so I still recommend it).

Edited by piet3r, 26 July 2013 - 06:46 AM.

[niner]

This review concludes interventions for lowering homocysteine do nothing to prevent related diseases. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23440809

Maybe the association of higher homocysteine in the studies LEF cites isn't necessarily causative.

The reason it did not prevent disease is that it is only one of at least 20 cardiovascular risk factors.

But if lowering it isn't helpful, it isn't helpful. There are different kinds of risk factors- some may be directly causative, while others may simply be indicators- they may be the result of something else that's the true cause. It's probably not directly harmful to reduce homocysteine, but what are the other effects of TMG? The TMG may well be doing something that you don't want- it's not necessarily harmless. Any time you take a bioactive compound in amounts greater than found in our historical diets, the odds that you are doing something helpful overall are not in your favor.

[balance]

Cochrane tends to be extremely strict/conservative and sometimes things do turn out to have some benefit.

I haven't read anything bad about TMG if you don't take high doses. The side effect of high doses being headaches or muscle tension. You can find those same side effects at high doses for carnosine for example. I'm not too worried about TMG at this moment.

[solarfingers]

Piet3r, I see you made reference to both books here. Sorry I missed that.

The purpose of this thread is to identify preventative measures that lead to the 7 SENS targets. I am repeating myself as I have already discussed it a bit in this thread. DeGrey is looking at stopping or reversing aging. He is after all only a computer scientist and has no degrees in Biochemistry. I don't say this to demean his genius. I say it simply because his theories are big picture ideas and though noble I don't believe they are all completely achievable. Things such as Nano robots may never happen. They are theoretical. He has identified 7 valid reasons for aging and some level of prevention can be accomplished through supplementation. IMHO

Since the theme of this thread is matching the 7 SENS Targets to supplementation, I think it is best to stay on mark. I agree there are many good supplements out there that do great things. I take some of them daily. Nearly none of my nootropic supplements do anything to match the 7 SENS targets. I believe they need their own thread.

Edited by solarfingers, 26 July 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[balance]

Hence I repeatedly said it was best to discuss it elsewhere to not hijack the thread....

[Luddist]

Hence I repeatedly said it was best to discuss it elsewhere to not hijack the thread....

Post a separate regimen thread then.

[balance]

It was me wanting to help out his personal regimen. It seems either here or in personal messages with him would be the most appropriate places.

[solarfingers]

Piet3r, I'm sure most of the supplements on your list fit somewhere in the targets. I just don't personally have time to research them all. In this thread I'm soliciting others to help to reduce the time necessary to identify supplements this way. I also encouraged people recommend supplements. So no harm, no foul. Thank you for your contribution. If you don't have time to research your supplements for the 7 targets, I'm sure I will get around to it myself some day.

[MrSan]

I thought you referenced this when I first read your thread: http://www.lef.org/m...ife-Span_01.htm.


Have you considered adding a weak B-vitamin complex to your matrix? Bioflavonoids might be a valuable addition too, if studies confirm they have therapeutic potential.

[solarfingers]

I thought you referenced this when I first read your thread: http://www.lef.org/m...ife-Span_01.htm.


Have you considered adding a weak B-vitamin complex to your matrix? Bioflavonoids might be a valuable addition too, if studies confirm they have therapeutic potential.

No, I have never read that study but it fits in well with what I am thinking... Just to cap the reference they recommend a coctail of the following:

• Vitamin B1
• Vitamin B3 (niacin)
• Vitamin B6
• Vitamin B12
• Folate
• Vitamin C
• Vitamin D
• Acetyl-L-carnitine
• Alpha-lipoic acid
• Acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin)
• Beta-carotene
• Bioflavonoids
• Chromium picolinate
• Garlic
• Ginger root extract

• Ginkgo biloba
• Ginseng
• Green tea extract
• L-Glutathione
• Magnesium
• Manganese
• Melatonin
• N-Acetyl cysteine
• Potassium
• Rutin
• Selenium
• Vitamin E
• Cod liver oil (omega-3)
• Coenzyme Q10
• Flax seed oil

Funny thing is that they list a matrix very simular to mine... I'm taking roughly half of these. Great minds think alike... Pun

I am taking Ballance B50 complex. It contains B1, B2, Niacine, B6, Folic Acid, B12, Biotin and Pantothenic Acid. I am also an avid juicer and get bioflavonoids from raw broccoli and spinach. Juicing is an important factor in any longevity protocol since it is the only way to get functional enzymes. Your cells need enzymes to effectively deal with junk and to create energy. Without them our cells can get bloated and choke themselves to death. This explains why you get a surge of energy after you drink your vegetables. I don't recommend juicing fruit. Fructose will aid in extracelluar junk accumulating. It's best to get all your sugars from vegetables.

[solarfingers]

The choice by the researchers seemed to be a bit arbitrary and not comprehensive in seeking out supplements which are most effective in the areas they chose. I do believe that the study gives strength to my methodology. I propose the following to be essential supplements toward effecting the SENS targets. Juicing raw vegetables is also precident. In concert with these supplements juicing (masticating juicer) will provide the body with essential minerals, enzymes and nutrients.

B50 complex
Iiodine
NAC
Lithium (low dosage)
Zinc
Blueberry Extract
Alpha Lipoic Acid
ALCAR
Coenzyme Q10
Vitamine C
DHEA (If you are older than 45)
Resveratrol
EGCG
Vitamine D3
Fisetin
Fish Oil
Olive Leaf Extract
L-Carnosine
PQQ
SAMe
Aspirin

Edited by solarfingers, 16 August 2013 - 05:08 PM.

[solarfingers]

I will also be taking the following nootropics supplements. Some of these have added value to the SENS targets.

Piracetam
Choline Bitartrate
Lion's Mane Mushroom
Ashawagandha
Bacopa Monniera
Atichoke Extract
Forskohlii
L-Phenylalanine

[solarfingers]

I should add that I am also taking c60-oo and Epitalion (Experimental). I also take about two tablespoons of coconut oil a day. It is both a good source of fuel for the brain and is a natural anti-fungal and anti-bacterial.

Edited by solarfingers, 16 August 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[MrSan]

I should add that I am also taking c60-oo and Epitalion (Experimental). I also take about two tablespoons of coconut oil a day. It is both a good source of fuel for the brain and is a natural anti-fungal and anti-bacterial.

I usually mix coconut oil with oatmeal, milk and 2 eggs. Or coconut oil mixed with juiced vegetables.

Your muscles can also burn MCTs for energy. I read somewhere that it's beneficial if you're trying to save your glycogen depots and building muscle.
************
Do you plan on taking all of these supplements permanently, for example, as part of an antiaging protocol or do you cycle some of them? (Such as piracetam.)
************
@ Your post in regards to juicing vegetables.
I do actually get a jolt of energy by drinking a green smoothie, but this effect has become more subtle now. I'm probably getting used to eating healthier, and getting all the nutrients I need.

Edited by MrSan, 16 August 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[solarfingers]

I should add that I am also taking c60-oo and Epitalion (Experimental). I also take about two tablespoons of coconut oil a day. It is both a good source of fuel for the brain and is a natural anti-fungal and anti-bacterial.

I usually mix coconut oil with oatmeal, milk and 2 eggs. Or coconut oil mixed with juiced vegetables.

Your muscles can also burn MCTs for energy. I read somewhere that it's beneficial if you're trying to save your glycogen depots and building muscle.
************
Do you plan on taking all of these supplements permanently, for example, as part of an antiaging protocol or do you cycle some of them? (Such as piracetam.)
************
@ Your post in regards to juicing vegetables.
I do actually get a jolt of energy by drinking a green smoothie, but this effect has become more subtle now. I'm probably getting used to eating healthier, and getting all the nutrients I need.

I do hear that many athletes take coconut oil for extra energy. That makes sense to me. Yes, this is my anti-aging protocol and I plan on staying on them. I do cycle over the weekend only and plan on staying on them permanently. I find that I really enjoy the benefits of piracetam as it helps to keep information moving more quickly for me. I don't like going more than a few days without it. It's not a dependency thing. I just don't like my brain moving any slower than necessary. I likely won't take it when I retire. I don't believe it has actually improved my memory much.

[Benedictus]

I now have editing privileges and will continue to keep the spreadsheet in this thread updated

In that case you may want to correct the spelling errors in it, I understand you're not an academic, don't have to be, but some words don't make it look trustworthy. "Useful" is with one l, "definitive' looks better.

Other than that I think this is a really great idea, could prove very useful indeed. I wonder when suppliers will jump in here and advertise their new multi's a.o. based on this ;-)

I'm missing;
https://en.wikipedia...thin#For_humans
https://en.wikipedia...#Dietary_intake
http://en.wikipedia....sults_in_humans

OK, just my additions for now..

[Benedictus]

When people like Aubrey de Grey say that they think supplements don't work, they are right that in the grand scheme of things they won't be significant. A single pill won't grant 20-200 extra years of life. That said, I think they are forgetting that every tiny bit does help

Plus, and that one seems to be underestimated and underrated;
Due to our modern food-processing habits, mass produce and mass world-crops unity and transportation, the sources of our nutrients are often from mono-cultures, GMO-plants and such, lower in value, high in water content, etc. We are often extremely deficient in many of the nutrients mentioned in this thread, stuff we'd normally consume a lot of if we'd still be living off the land, in the woods, as our ancestors did. Their reasons for dying younger than we do now were only rarely related to deficiencies. These days long-term deficiencies look like a main cause of people dying earlier than they would have (if only they were supplemented..).

Edited by Benedictus, 17 August 2013 - 02:59 PM.