14 replies to this topic

[snowbell]

I suffer from fatigue and brain fog and have read different views on Eleuthero root. Some people say it's energizing while for some it's relaxing. I am looking for something that will give me energy without making me anxious. I have tried Schizandra in the past but it gives me reflux and also makes me sleepy. Can anyone their experience with Eleuthero ?

[Galaxyshock]

Lower doses are generally more stimulating and higher doses calming. Eleuthero is quite good for fighting fatigue and in some comparison to other adaptogens actually had the highest antidepressive-effect. I used to take Now Eleuthero 500mg three times a day. Probably going to use this herb again in near future.

[Introspecta]

Very low doses which are found in some Teas worked great for me but whenever I tried the supplements they were too stimulating and gave me anxiety. I was under the impression that Eleuthero didn't cause anxiety but was wrong.

[snowbell]

Can I ask which brand and what quantity you tried that gave you anxiety ? I am looking for energy but I can get anxious easily.

[Introspecta]

I believe it was a Vitamin Shoppe brand. It was dosed higher than the other brands which may have been the problem. One other thing is sometimes my anxiety really only consists of my face being super hot which makes me more nervous. I almost feel as though i'm blushing all the time. It doesn't give me General but more of a overstimulated hot face social anxiety.. Give it a try though.. How old are you? Check out my Suma Root thread. You may get some good results with the Stack i'm using.. Tongkat ali is great for added energy. Suma root is known to help Chronic fatigue.

Whatever you do just buy the lowest doses. Start low. Everyone is different so by me saying I got anxiety from Eleuthro doesn't mean you will which i'm sure you know.

[snowbell]

I am in early thirties. I have suffered from fatigue for about 3-4 years now. Doctors have done all sorts of tests including thyroid. I am so tired of dragging everyday. I was anemic but that was cured after taking iron pills for a while. I have never heard of Suma Root. Would you mind giving me link to your thread ?

Which one would you recommend first - Tongat Ali or Suma root ?

[Introspecta]

I'd use both. Being in your 30's it will bring your testosterone levels up to where they were in your early 20's. Best natural test booster on the market. Amazing the whole world doesn't know about it. Have you had your testosterone levels checked? DHEA levels checked? If its not that then possibly adrenal fatigue from either too much use of stimulants or lack of sleep and stress.

My thread is in this forum near the top it says suma root. I'm sure you'll see it.

If you get everything balanced as far as hormones go and your still dragging then i'd go for healing the adrenals with no stimulant use and some herbs. If its still a problem then it would most likely be Dopamine. I'm sure there are others with more scientific background that may be able to help you.. I'm just giving you my opinion based on my experiences. I was depressed and dragging ass and tongkat ali has made a huge difference getting my T levels up. My T levels must of been low due to being on Suboxone for 4 years. I was never tested but this is my self diagnosis which came from lack of sex drive, energy, mood, morning wood etc.. Anyways you can PM me or i'll PM rather than going on and on in this thread as the thread is titled Eleuthro and i'm not talking about it.

[Luddist]

Hey fellow Minnesotan. I clicked this thread because I'm currently taking eleuthero (a lot) for complementary treatment of Lyme disease. Given your symptoms and where you live, have you explored the possibility of infection? I see from another thread you were having joint pain too. Do you recall being bitten by a tick? Even if you don't remember, it's still possible that it happened. The nymphal stage ticks are as big as a poppy seed and can infect people. Personally I don't remember picking a tick off my leg but a circular rash appeared there. Rashes don't always appear by the way. If you haven't looked into this, you definitely should.

Unfortunately if it is Lyme, treatment for a long-term infection (3-4 years, about the same as me) is not always cut and dry. A short course of antibiotics at this point might not take care of the problem. If you read about Lyme online beware there is a lot of nonsense out there. Take everything with a grain of salt.

Another thing, about Lyme testing. If you go to a typical doctor, they will order what's called a 2-tier test from LabCorp or similar lab. The first tier is an ELISA test for Lyme (borrelia) antibodies and it's worthless for long-term untreated cases. At this point the standard procedure is to not move on to the 2nd tier Western blot test, which can be useful to support a clinical diagnosis but can also easily give false negatives as the criteria for a positive is high. Nevertheless, demand that you get the actual Western blot test performed, even if the ELISA comes back negative. And if possible ask to get the specific information on the Western blot bands back, otherwise standard labs will judge the results based on the CDC reporting standard and the result will come back simply positive or negative. You can also ask for coinfection testing. Although those tests are not very accurate either, any positive is strong evidence for the cause of your symptoms to originate from tick-borne infections.

Beyond going to the doctor and exploring your insured options, what to do next depends on how much money you have to blow :P Let me know if you have any questions.

Edited by Luddist, 26 June 2013 - 08:09 PM.

[norepinephrine]

Luddist - would testing at 0.3 IgM & IgG for a WesternBlot effectively rule out Lyme in my case? Lab flagged that as negative with the cutoff at 1.0.

[Luddist]

Luddist - would testing at 0.3 IgM & IgG for a WesternBlot effectively rule out Lyme in my case? Lab flagged that as negative with the cutoff at 1.0.

I haven't seen a number scale for the Lyme Western blot like that, but it sounds like it could have been an ELISA (or EIA) test, which is typically performed before moving on to the WB. Standard labs will do the cheaper ELISA and skip the WB if the former is negative. This is a problem as I explained above in undiagnosed people infected over 6-12 months.

There are a ton of symptoms that can be related to Lyme (borreliosis and coinfections). WebMD's common symptoms seem like a pretty good starting place: http://arthritis.web...isease-symptoms Look at stage 3 symptoms if you suspect you've been infected for a while.

I feel like I should throw this out there too. I'm pretty sure my infection triggered a gluten intolerance problem in my gut, which can result in crossover neurological symptoms and one of the 3rd stage symptoms listed on WebMD, numb feet and hands. Borrelia and bartonella manipulate your immune system and can apparently cause things like this. If you suspect Lyme or have similar neurological issues it is worth checking to see if you are or have become gluten intolerant.

[Luddist]

I am in early thirties. I have suffered from fatigue for about 3-4 years now. Doctors have done all sorts of tests including thyroid. I am so tired of dragging everyday. I was anemic but that was cured after taking iron pills for a while. I have never heard of Suma Root. Would you mind giving me link to your thread ?

Which one would you recommend first - Tongat Ali or Suma root ?

I missed this the first time I read the thread but anemia can be a result of babesia and/or bartonella (common tick borne coinfections).

[AlexCanada]

Eleuthero has some pro-hormone effects on me. I am able to notice it in my physical appearance. I also notice more fondness for people as well as calming and relaxing type feelings (which aren't always welcome). I prefer to have more sense of excitement but I appreciate some of the anti-anhedonic effects of Eleuthero.

 

I just want to know why it makes colors look more washed out, dull and pale vision?? This occurs quite rapidly within 10-15 minutes of a small Sublingual dose around 100mg. Higher doses same case. Eventually this passes to a degree later in the day but this also accompanies a sense of initial dullness.  On the other hand something like Ginkgo which has MAOI, and some norepinephrine makes colors feel more rich and vibrant. 

 

Also the longer I take Eleuthero I get these arterial neck pains. Like the arteries in my neck feel clogged or just... the blood flowing through them feels slightly painful.   I also get this effect if I take too much ginkgo. Sometimes I feel it from Vyvanse and other substances as well.   What might this be?  I been having long time issues with my neck on both sides it just becomes much more obvious with eleuthero. Is it plaque build up?  I do suffer from Adrenal Fatigue and have low cortisol. Also very low testosterone. 

[penisbreath]

Eleuthero drops my blood sugar way too low ..I prefer American Ginseng (though it can make me a little manic). 

[AlexCanada]

Had some promising benefits from Eleuthero Root 80mg yesterday in combination with 2.5mg vyvanse. Also been taking NSI 10mg for 7 days.  I had bit more general interest, bit less anhedonia. Colors were duller initially at first but eventually after 3+ hours of eleuthero I had greater sensory appreciation for the scenery as I watched Game of Thrones. I felt bit enthralled actually. It was definitely a new effect as normally I am absolutely apathetic and unresponsive to visual stimuli. 

 

Minor anx mixed in with some sense of calmness ironically. Difficult to describe. It also seemed like it extended the effect of the Vyvanse. Normally I don't feel much benefit from vyvanse beyond a 2-3 hour window. Then I just feel worn out and mentally + physically burnt out. But last night I was able to go on for a long time and I'm sure Eleuthero Root was part of it. One issue I noticed is inferior vocabulary initial after Eleuthero Root. I experienced this before. Suppossedly ''confusion'' can be a bit of a side effect and I found my word recall extremely impaired. What is the name of that tv show? What is the name of that person? Bit of a stupor here and there.

 

Also I would start getting some pains in my neck arteries. Anyone have an idea of why this occurs? Is it the blood thinning mechanism?  I noticed red bright blood in my stool and I know 100% it was from the new addition of Eleuthero Root. 

 

 

Does anyone have viable alternatives or tips of what to take with it?  The anti-anhedonic effects are a small miracle but ele root has some effects which may not be desirable. Inferior cognition (so far), blood in stools, initial tiredness, and tendency to reduce blood sugar.  Makes me want to consider trying other ginsengs again but I have had a love hate relationship with korean ginseng. Makes so incrediblyyy sleepyyy most of the time but underneath all that I have more interest and desire to do things. But usually cannot do much with it due to feeling insanely sedated usually.  Cordonopsis (poor man's ginseng) maybe an alternative. 

[Galaxyshock]

Makes me want to consider trying other ginsengs again but I have had a love hate relationship with korean ginseng. Makes so incrediblyyy sleepyyy most of the time but underneath all that I have more interest and desire to do things. But usually cannot do much with it due to feeling insanely sedated usually.  Cordonopsis (poor man's ginseng) maybe an alternative. 

 

Consider Jiaogulan (southern Ginseng) or perhaps Cordyceps, both herbs can help relieve anhedonia.