59 replies to this topic

[pleb]

Its strange the different effects regarding sleep that posters report,

i suffered from insomnia from the age of 18 and have never slept well at all many nights getting up at 4 for an hour after waking and feeling like a zombie some days
and within the last few years since retiring made worse from an enlarged prostate having to get up in the middle of the night to go to the loo,
since starting c60-00 about a year ago i rarely have to get up to go to the loo and now find i can sleep most nights for 6 hours undisturbed, and rarely have to go in the middle of the night even if I've had a drink immediately before going to bed i have found that taking it about 6 or 7 in the evening is the best time for me,

[hav]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ctid185711title

Can anyone comment on the article linked above? Thanks.

Suspension of particles in saline solution or corn oil yielded a similar extent of genotoxicity, whereas corn oil per se generated more genotoxicity than the particles.

... which suggests at least that undissolved c60 in suspension probably won't be toxic and that olive oil may be a better choice than corn oil in the long run.

Howard

[hav]

Its strange the different effects regarding sleep that posters report,

i suffered from insomnia from the age of 18 and have never slept well at all many nights getting up at 4 for an hour after waking and feeling like a zombie some days
and within the last few years since retiring made worse from an enlarged prostate having to get up in the middle of the night to go to the loo,
since starting c60-00 about a year ago i rarely have to get up to go to the loo and now find i can sleep most nights for 6 hours undisturbed, and rarely have to go in the middle of the night even if I've had a drink immediately before going to bed i have found that taking it about 6 or 7 in the evening is the best time for me,

I think the prostate effect may be consistent with my own experience. I've had an enlarged prostate for about 5 years and for the first few years controlled it well with Flowmax. When that seemed to lose its effect, my doctor added Avodart for a few more years. Last year around this time I got concerned with Flowmax side effects and dropped it. And found I could get by without it. That was about 5 months after starting c60 but it hadn't occurred to me that it might have had anything to do with it.

Howard

[pleb]

i've often wondered what Baati's rats would have told us if they could have talked !

Edited by pleb, 19 August 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[DyeA]

Click on my profile picture for my experience with it.

Wow that is a great summary you provided in your profile page! Thank you! I am a 45 year old male considering taking C60 and hopping around blindly from thread to thread has not been the most effective way of educating myself (although it did lead me to your post).

Is there a particular age that it makes the most sense to start on c60 at?

Also, anyone else wondering how Lukey is doing??

Thanks all, seems like a nice community here.

[hav]

Click on my profile picture for my experience with it.

Wow that is a great summary you provided in your profile page! Thank you! I am a 45 year old male considering taking C60 and hopping around blindly from thread to thread has not been the most effective way of educating myself (although it did lead me to your post).

Is there a particular age that it makes the most sense to start on c60 at?

The rats in the Baati study were started on c60 dissolved in olive oil at age 10 months. I found this chart in a paper which attempts to equate rat ages in months to human years...



If I did the interpolation right, that should equate to human age of 26 years. The chart is scaled by comparative neurological and social development, which sounds like a similar consideration Baati used to determine when to start dosing: "to avoid possible compensatory effects that can occur during early development."

Howard

Edited by hav, 27 October 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[DyeA]

Thanks for that Howard, so basically they wanted to delay use of C60 on the rats until they were assured that they were fully grown, no information in there about the ideal time or minimum time to start the therapy. I suppose it is too early in the drug's development for this kind of data to exist. It would be interesting to see some 40 years old personal experiences with it. I bet if I look hard enough I will find some personal account here. Still curious about Lukey

Edited by DyeA, 30 October 2013 - 05:02 AM.

[resting]

Taking 3mg every other day. Second month just started. Difficult to notice any major benefits. Possible better VO2Max / less fatigue at Gym and less requirement for sleep. No adverse side effects. After use for one year and depending on evidence on the stem cell theory will adjust accordingly.

Documenting (photo) effects daily to do a time lapse of the ageing process. May or may not be able to spot something given a large enough time with blinking between images.

Edited by resting, 30 October 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

It would be interesting to see some 40 years old personal experiences with it. I bet if I look hard enough I will find some personal account here.

The 60 poll reveals that the largest age group is 40-49. There are 15 people in that group so far and if you click "View," you can see who they are and look up their posts. You can also see what benefits they might have reported by looking further down in the poll.

[Turnbuckle]

From the C60 poll, here are the percentage of users reporting positive results for each age group--

Attached Files

•  Benifit by age.JPG   22.27KB   30 downloads

Edited by Turnbuckle, 30 October 2013 - 07:09 PM.

[DyeA]

The poll - another great resource, thanks for that Turnbuckle - seems like on the individual questions there are often as many people reporting results as people reporting none with perhaps a slight advantage toward the positive. High positive overall rating though.

[niner]

The poll - another great resource, thanks for that Turnbuckle - seems like on the individual questions there are often as many people reporting results as people reporting none with perhaps a slight advantage toward the positive. High positive overall rating though.

Many of the individual questions don't really have much to do with c60. The poll was constructed before the community had a lot of experience with c60, so there are a lot of questions that relate to general "youth". C60 doesn't have much effect on erections, for example.

Young healthy people are not likely to feel much from c60, unless they are athletically trained and have a good sense of their limits, in which they may see significant improvement. People with a variety of disease states characterized by hypoxia, certain kinds of inflammation, certain kinds of allergic response, or mitochondrial dysfunction usually see a positive response, sometimes a substantial one.

Most people notice a greater tolerance for alcohol and reduced sunburn for a given amount of UV exposure.

[DyeA]

Thanks niner for that. I do have unexplained/undiagnosed joint inflammation - for example doing more than 10 pullups in a row gave me inner and outer medial epicondylitis (golfer's elbow and tennis elbow) that has lasted years and will re-inflame easily, have knees that will get 'irritated' on one leg or the other, right hand will get inflamed from mousing too much and is permanently a bit swollen and will re-irritate occasionally, benign swollen lymph node or two that will get painful, slow wound healing etc etc. Been to my primary doc and a specialist or two, nothing concrete shows up in blood work or scans and my doctor does not seem interested in going further. Sounds like I might have some of the symptoms that show improvement...

I do some nootropics, cod liver oil, glucosamine, msm, curcumin, astragalus, coq10, try to keep to a low carb diet, and do medium weight, intensity cycled exercise (basically crossfit scaled way back) and have a pretty healthy weight, some muscle tone, so so resting pulse etc.

I think I am going to take the leap and order some c60. I saw you recommend http://www.carbon60oliveoil.com/ - what particular product would you advise I start with http://www.carbon60o...m/products.html as well as what dose?

Thanks for your help.

[Adamzski]

I am considering getting back on the c60, I used a VA bottle over a period of 1.5 months twice in the last year. The second time it really had a strong effect on my sleep, I slept very soundly, I could and would sleep over 12hrs many days, I went to sleep on busses and caught myself dosing of at stages just waiting for a train or something. That is totally out of the ordinary for me as I have always had trouble sleeping my whole life. It is something that went away when the c60 stopped and without a doubt it was an effect of c60.
Any ideas why this could be? I would like to take it again to get some good rest, not sure of any other benefits, I never did get sick while on it and I was in situations where I would have almost definitely gotten a cold whilst taking it.
This time I will hit the gym

[chaco]

Hi DyeA,

I don't know how long it takes to work but I've tried c60 for 2 months, and it didn't do anything for my forearm tendinitis/tendinosis. I over did pullups and couldn't hold a grocery bag for months a few years back. They irritate very easily and sometimes the pain seems to flare up with no cause that I can tell. However, I did have a tweaked knee and now it doesn't irritate, but I think it was less severe than my forearm injury. So my verdict - the C60 worked but it depends on the severity of the injury or tweak. Resistance to alcohol definitely improved but that was more an interesting side effect.

Edited by chaco, 05 November 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[niner]

... inner and outer medial epicondylitis (golfer's elbow and tennis elbow) that has lasted years and will re-inflame easily, have knees that will get 'irritated' on one leg or the other, right hand will get inflamed from mousing too much and is permanently a bit swollen and will re-irritate occasionally, benign swollen lymph node or two that will get painful, slow wound healing etc etc.

I think I am going to take the leap and order some c60. I saw you recommend http://www.carbon60oliveoil.com/ - what particular product would you advise I start with http://www.carbon60o...m/products.html as well as what dose?

It's really just a question of how much you want to get. In my experience, the only thing that matters about dosing is the total amount you take over a given time period. The half life is very long, so you can dose as infrequently as once a month, which is what I do, or you can dose ten times a day if you're so inclined. I find a reasonable dose to be 0.5-1.5 mg/day, although some people take considerably more, and some less. Either the 30ml or 100ml size are a fairly cheap way to see if it does anything you like. I look at the 30ml size as about a month's worth, though you can stretch it out.

If money is an issue, it's pretty easy to make it yourself. If money's not an issue, buy the ten bottle package, and put nine of them in the freezer. (It can also be stored at room temp, but keeps better if frozen.)

Sadly, it probably won't do anything for the epicondylitis. Physical therapy can work wonders there. I had a lot of trouble with biceps tendinitis, for which my doctor said "nothing could be done". An orthopedist prescribed a PT shoulder program that turned it into a non-issue for me, other than the fact that if I overdo it in the gym, I will re-injure it. A friend of mine had a case like yours and a PT program helped dramatically.

[mikeinnaples]

Wow they charge an awful lot for something so simple to make yourself at home for a fraction of the cost.

[hav]

Hi DyeA,

I don't know how long it takes to work but I've tried c60 for 2 months, and it didn't do anything for my forearm tendinitis/tendinosis. I over did pullups and couldn't hold a grocery bag for months a few years back. They irritate very easily and sometimes the pain seems to flare up with no cause that I can tell. However, I did have a tweaked knee and now it doesn't irritate, but I think it was less severe than my forearm injury. So my verdict - the C60 worked but it depends on the severity of the injury or tweak. Resistance to alcohol definitely improved but that was more an interesting side effect.

C60/oo didn't do anything for an inflamed calf tendon I had either. Neither did anti inflammatory drugs like etodolac. Physical therapy really is the ultimate answer, so long as you can get the tendon inflammation down enough for any tendon damage to heal. Alternating treatment with ice and heat sometimes does the trick.

Howard

[Adamzski]

I was in a bar room brawl just before I first took C60, I had a seriously damaged arm from being Jiu Jitsu'd by a marine. There is no way for me to say that C60 helped but I did not get any treatment and did not even bandage or elevate the arm. I could not move it at all for a week and had a very very limited range of motion. It took a month to recover to the stage where I could use the arm again and two months for me to be able to use it without any pain.
The photo here maybe does not look so bad, a day after this my arm was black pretty much but it was a crazy injury that I think C60 could of help with recovering from.

[free10]

I was in a bar room brawl just before I first took C60, I had a seriously damaged arm from being Jiu Jitsu'd by a marine. There is no way for me to say that C60 helped but I did not get any treatment and did not even bandage or elevate the arm. I could not move it at all for a week and had a very very limited range of motion. It took a month to recover to the stage where I could use the arm again and two months for me to be able to use it without any pain.
The photo here maybe does not look so bad, a day after this my arm was black pretty much but it was a crazy injury that I think C60 could of help with recovering from.

In my view, it is better to be taking the C60 before the injury/events, then afterwards when the horse has already left the stable, and the chain reactions of damage have begun. C60 is more a shield than a band aid.

[RJ23_1989]

It's also advisable not to get in fights with marines at a bar

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Turnbuckle]

C60/oo didn't do anything for an inflamed calf tendon I had either. Neither did anti inflammatory drugs like etodolac. Physical therapy really is the ultimate answer, so long as you can get the tendon inflammation down enough for any tendon damage to heal. Alternating treatment with ice and heat sometimes does the trick.

Howard

I haven't noticed any advantage of C60 with tendon problems. In fact, tendons are more prone to injury when exercise capacity is suddenly increased. Others have noticed this too. While damage to tendons may involve mitochondria and thus one might think C60 would help, other factors may be more important--

The Tendinosis Cycle

The tendinosis cycle begins when breakdown exceeds repair. Repetitive motion causes microinjuries that accumulate with time. Collagen breaks down and the tendon tries to repair itself, but the cells produce new collagen with an abnormal structure and composition.

The new collagen has an abnormally high Type III/Type I ratio. Experiments show that the excess Type III collagen at the expense of Type I collagen weakens the tendon, making it prone to further injury. Part of the problem is that the new collagen fibers are less organized into the normal parallel structure, making the tendon less able to withstand tensile stress along the direction of the tendon.

Therefore, tendinosis is a slow accumulation of little injuries that are not repaired properly and leave the tendon vulnerable to yet more injury. This failed healing process is the reason many people with tendinosis don't completely heal from it and can't go back to their previous level of activity. Once the tendinosis cycle starts, the tendon rarely heals back to its pre-injury state.

Although rest is an essential part of the healing process for tendinosis, too much rest causes deconditioning of muscles and tendons. The weaker muscles and tendons leave the area more vulnerable to injury. Thus, the area becomes weaker on a large scale as well as on a cellular scale. This cycle of injury/rest/deconditioning/more injury can be difficult to break. Gradual, careful physical therapy exercises can help.

http://tendinosis.org/injury.shtml

[hav]

My tendon inflammation problems predate my using c60 by about a year and a half so I don't know if perhaps it may have prevented it. What finally quelled it for me was 6 weeks of thymosin beta 4 peptide (TB500), which I completed 6 weeks ago, right before starting physical therapy. Don't know that I'd recommend it to a younger person who has not exhausted other solutions, but so far so good for me. The theory is that the synthetic peptide is naturally made in the thymus whose production of it lowers as you age and that its method of operation is to lower production of pro-inflammatory cytokines and promote tissue healing. There's also the possibility that long term use of the peptide may promote tumor growth although that negative effect has been shown to be prevented by concurrent usage of NAC. But NAC has its own pluses and minuses. So if c60/oo can avert the need for using the peptide on a maintenance basis as one ages, I think that would be the safest course.

Howard

[RJ23_1989]

My tendon inflammation problems predate my using c60 by about a year and a half so I don't know if perhaps it may have prevented it. What finally quelled it for me was 6 weeks of thymosin beta 4 peptide (TB500), which I completed 6 weeks ago, right before starting physical therapy. Don't know that I'd recommend it to a younger person who has not exhausted other solutions, but so far so good for me. The theory is that the synthetic peptide is naturally made in the thymus whose production of it lowers as you age and that its method of operation is to lower production of pro-inflammatory cytokines and promote tissue healing. There's also the possibility that long term use of the peptide may promote tumor growth although that negative effect has been shown to be prevented by concurrent usage of NAC. But NAC has its own pluses and minuses. So if c60/oo can avert the need for using the peptide on a maintenance basis as one ages, I think that would be the safest course.

Howard

Hav I'm glad to hear the TB4 worked out for you..! It certainly did for me as well.

[DyeA]

I was in a bar room brawl just before I first took C60, I had a seriously damaged arm from being Jiu Jitsu'd by a marine. There is no way for me ...

Voted most unusual c60 story I have heard!

Edited by DyeA, 07 November 2013 - 04:39 PM.

[DyeA]

Has anyone had experience with DMSO for inflammation reduction? I have a 40% cream mixed with witch hazel and other natural anti inflammatory ingredients that seems to work ok. I have never tried pure. From what all of you have said it seems like reducing inflammation is just half the battle and that PT can help remodel collagen composition or work throu some other mechanism.

[RJ23_1989]

I have it as a full strength gel and have mixed it with 'natural cure 1222'. It is pretty potent and will make your skin itch after a while. Beyond that, I found it somewhat effective at easing joint inflammation but I really only used it on an ankle sprain a few times until it was better. it did seem to help slightly.

[free10]

Has anyone had experience with DMSO for inflammation reduction? I have a 40% cream mixed with witch hazel and other natural anti inflammatory ingredients that seems to work ok. I have never tried pure. From what all of you have said it seems like reducing inflammation is just half the battle and that PT can help remodel collagen composition or work throu some other mechanism.

There is plenty of info on DMSO over in a Google search. DMSO is not usually used pure, though buying pure is the best way to know what a DMSO cocktail has in it, since you added it yourself. Normally for muscles or tendons the Gym guys mix 70% or so DMSO with water, with the pure, and then spray it on the problem areas or paint it on. 100% is considered too drying and more of a possible irritation to the skin.

Edited by free10, 07 November 2013 - 07:37 PM.

[hav]

I also tried DMSO, both at 90% strength as well as mixed at 70% with aloe vera gel. Found it a moderately effective anti inflammatory for joints and very good anti inflammatory for muscles, especially with a little caffeine mixed in. My wife had a bad ankle sprain last year and an arm break just below the wrist later in the year and DMSO was quite effective when applied immediately after the injury together with ice to keep the swelling in control. As for the bone break, the doctor advised that bone healing would proceed faster without an anti inflammatory so we discontinued it. My wife still uses it from time to time on her wrist area if the aching comes back, typically after long piano playing gigs.

I'm fairly rash sensitive to DMSO myself, although I find soaking in water as soon a I remove the patch which I apply it with can prevent a major rash from developing. Found it pretty ineffective on inflamed tendons, however. I also tried mixing a number of other things into the DMSO, like NAC, Gotu Kola, and Pine Bark Extract, but it was only mildly effective for a short while on the tendon. Ice is probably better. Tendons are tough customers.

Howard

[stephen_b]

I've had very good results with tendon problems and muscle aches by taking MSM. I wonder if sulfur deficiency is more prevalent than realized.