238 replies to this topic

[Junk Master]

Even if this whole "show" doesn't work out as planned, it's clear there is quite a bit of interest in an ebay store a la Nyles that stocks obscure RC's with nootropic potential!

 

Once again, thanks for taking the lead on this and also being so open about what you are going through.  It really gives me an idea of the "barriers of entry" into making said store work!

[Heisenburger]

It just arrived. Amazingly fast shipping. Tracking records show that it was still in China less than 72 hours ago. I took 100 milligrams five minutes ago. My preliminary impression is that it is genuine. Same yellow color as reChem’s product, same sour/tangy taste, and same post-ingestion aftereffects (burping, irritation to throat, and slight heartburn). If it is GTS-21, the psychoactive effects should be clearly evident in less than an hour. Will report back tonight, probably very late—about 11 o’clock PST. I will make every attempt to get Water Buffalo’s sample in the mail to him tomorrow. The Customs fee was somehow included in the price, as the DHL carrier did not request payment. (Since this is my first rodeo, I’m still trying to find out exactly how that all works.) So total cost equals $700 for the product (shipping appears to have been covered as well), and $25 for the Western Union transfer. Total door-to-door cost seems to be $725. Even though it was less expensive than I thought it was going to be, I’m still going to honor my promise not to skim for personal supply, and sell the entire 50 grams for cost. The per gram price for anybody who wants to place an order will be exactly $(725/50), which equals $14.50. I’ll do the same thing that Nyles does and add 0.10 gram to each bag to compensate for the residue that clings to the side of the bag. PM me for PayPal information. Remember—no orders over 10 grams, so that everybody has a fair chance to get some.

[Heisenburger]

To everybody who has placed an order so far, thanks for your patronage, and I’m in the process of filling them right now. There will be a slight delay, as I have just moved to a new home 1000 miles away from my previous one and am still learning the area. Right now, I literally do not know where my post office is. But I have two orders already sealed and ready to go, and will try to knock out the rest of them tonight. So please be patient; it may take two or three days longer to arrive than what you’re accustomed to expect from your other vendors. So far my response to HHD’s GTS-21 has been good, and I am fairly confident of the genuineness of the product. Water Buffalo’s sample is definitely going out today as soon as I figure out where the PO is, so hopefully we’ll have a report back from him soon as well.

[Heisenburger]

Guys, try to keep the orders on the small side. I just got it yesterday and I have less than 17 grams left. I feel like Elon Musk;  this thing is taking off a lot faster than I expected.

[dwaaam]

How is the cognitive effect? The same as with reChem's product?
How often do you dose it? Once a day? How long does it last?

[Heisenburger]

How is the cognitive effect? The same as with reChem's product?
How often do you dose it? Once a day? How long does it last?

 

At this point I am very sure that HHD’s product is chemically genuine. As I’ve mentioned before, GTS-21 is the most powerful anxiolytic I have ever taken that is not psychoactive. Every drug that I can possibly think of that is a more powerful anxiolytic than GTS-21 has very notable sedative and hypnotic effects. GTS-21 has none of these properties. I experienced this anxiolysis with the very first dose I tried, which was 100 milligrams taken the day the parcel arrived from China. I was a little alarmed by the fact that the razor-sharp focus that I experienced from reChem’s product appeared to be absent from HHD’s product. However, I experienced it with the 200-milligram dose that I took yesterday morning. It is not unusual for drugs to have paradoxical first-dose effects (prazosin is an excellent example of this phenomenon), so this is a likely explanation for the absence of the attention-sharpening effect that first day. The 100-milligram dose I took this morning is definitely giving me both effects, and they seem to be identical to the effects I enjoyed from ReChem’s GTS-21. But again, I look forward to Water Buffalo’s take on the subject.

 

As for how much a human should take, that is open to a considerable amount of conjecture. All of the literature I’ve read so far suggests 300 milligrams per day in three evenly-sized and evenly-spaced doses. I feel that this is probably superfluous. Every single time I’ve taken it, the effects from a single dose in the morning persisted well into the early evening. GTS-21’s primary metabolite, 3-(4-hydroxy, 2-methoxy-benzylidene) anabaseine (4-OH-GTS-21) is pharmacologically active, and this may the explanation for the persistent effects I experience even eight hours after ingesting it. Now that I have a considerable amount of the stuff though, I will eventually try three doses in a single day and see if there is any difference in effect.

[Heisenburger]

I’m missing shipping addresses from several of you. Please read all of your PMs to me and make sure that I have your address. My records show that I have addresses from telight and bossmanglb only; I need shipping addresses from the following people: SumWon, Junk Master, plumper76, lambda, and Jochen.

[Heisenburger]

Guys—I have 11 orders here and only one of them has shipped (two if you count Water Buffalo’s free sample). I’m at dead end here; either you haven’t paid, or you haven’t provided me your shipping address. Some of you have paid but I have absolutely no idea who you are. If everybody who has placed an order could send me the following information, I can straighten everything out in no time flat:

 

1). The amount of GTS-21 you ordered.

 

2). Your name and shipping address.

 

3). Your LongeCity username.

[telight]

Guys—I have 11 orders here and only one of them has shipped (two if you count Water Buffalo’s free sample). I’m at dead end here; either you haven’t paid, or you haven’t provided me your shipping address. Some of you have paid but I have absolutely no idea who you are. If everybody who has placed an order could send me the following information, I can straighten everything out in no time flat:

 

1). The amount of GTS-21 you ordered.

 

2). Your name and shipping address.

 

3). Your LongeCity username.

 

 

I sent you a message expecting that you would reply how much I would have to Paypal you. Is the shipping to anywhere in the continental USA free? How much is it total for 3g?

[Heisenburger]

You're right—I dropped the ball on that one. Had I responded to your PM, you wouldn't be on my 'mystery list.' Your price is $43.50. Thanks for your patronage!

[dwaaam]

 

How is the cognitive effect? The same as with reChem's product?
How often do you dose it? Once a day? How long does it last?

 

At this point I am very sure that HHD’s product is chemically genuine. As I’ve mentioned before, GTS-21 is the most powerful anxiolytic I have ever taken that is not psychoactive. Every drug that I can possibly think of that is a more powerful anxiolytic than GTS-21 has very notable sedative and hypnotic effects. GTS-21 has none of these properties. I experienced this anxiolysis with the very first dose I tried, which was 100 milligrams taken the day the parcel arrived from China. I was a little alarmed by the fact that the razor-sharp focus that I experienced from reChem’s product appeared to be absent from HHD’s product. However, I experienced it with the 200-milligram dose that I took yesterday morning. It is not unusual for drugs to have paradoxical first-dose effects (prazosin is an excellent example of this phenomenon), so this is a likely explanation for the absence of the attention-sharpening effect that first day. The 100-milligram dose I took this morning is definitely giving me both effects, and they seem to be identical to the effects I enjoyed from ReChem’s GTS-21. But again, I look forward to Water Buffalo’s take on the subject.

 

As for how much a human should take, that is open to a considerable amount of conjecture. All of the literature I’ve read so far suggests 300 milligrams per day in three evenly-sized and evenly-spaced doses. I feel that this is probably superfluous. Every single time I’ve taken it, the effects from a single dose in the morning persisted well into the early evening. GTS-21’s primary metabolite, 3-(4-hydroxy, 2-methoxy-benzylidene) anabaseine (4-OH-GTS-21) is pharmacologically active, and this may the explanation for the persistent effects I experience even eight hours after ingesting it. Now that I have a considerable amount of the stuff though, I will eventually try three doses in a single day and see if there is any difference in effect.

 

 

How is the effect compared to WAY-317,538?

I did not really feel any anxiolytic effect from this substance, but then again I am quite lucky to almost never feel any anxiety. Did not really feel any improved focus or memory either.

What I did feel was some more energy and mood improvement, which I guess is attributed to its H3 antagonistic effect, but the peak was quite delayed after ingestion, maybe 8 hours or so. This substance probably has an active metabolite also, because the reported half-life is under one hour.

I am a little worried that the medication I am currently taking is going to make the GTS-21 effect somewhat weaker. Bupropion (Wellbutrin) should have a weak antagonism of the α7-receptor: http://jpet.aspetjou.../295/1/321.long , but my understanding of how a weakly non-competitive antagonists work together with a strong agonist is somewhat limited. I will try them together and when the hydroxybupropion has left my system.

 

Hopefully I will have the GTS-21 before the weekend, knock on wood, if the post gods are willing! Then I will write an experience report.
 

[Water Buffalo]

 

How is the cognitive effect? The same as with reChem's product?
How often do you dose it? Once a day? How long does it last?

 

At this point I am very sure that HHD’s product is chemically genuine. As I’ve mentioned before, GTS-21 is the most powerful anxiolytic I have ever taken that is not psychoactive. Every drug that I can possibly think of that is a more powerful anxiolytic than GTS-21 has very notable sedative and hypnotic effects. GTS-21 has none of these properties. I experienced this anxiolysis with the very first dose I tried, which was 100 milligrams taken the day the parcel arrived from China. I was a little alarmed by the fact that the razor-sharp focus that I experienced from reChem’s product appeared to be absent from HHD’s product. However, I experienced it with the 200-milligram dose that I took yesterday morning. It is not unusual for drugs to have paradoxical first-dose effects (prazosin is an excellent example of this phenomenon), so this is a likely explanation for the absence of the attention-sharpening effect that first day. The 100-milligram dose I took this morning is definitely giving me both effects, and they seem to be identical to the effects I enjoyed from ReChem’s GTS-21. But again, I look forward to Water Buffalo’s take on the subject.

 

As for how much a human should take, that is open to a considerable amount of conjecture. All of the literature I’ve read so far suggests 300 milligrams per day in three evenly-sized and evenly-spaced doses. I feel that this is probably superfluous. Every single time I’ve taken it, the effects from a single dose in the morning persisted well into the early evening. GTS-21’s primary metabolite, 3-(4-hydroxy, 2-methoxy-benzylidene) anabaseine (4-OH-GTS-21) is pharmacologically active, and this may the explanation for the persistent effects I experience even eight hours after ingesting it. Now that I have a considerable amount of the stuff though, I will eventually try three doses in a single day and see if there is any difference in effect.

 

 

The researchers in the OP noticed that the cognitive promoting effects increased over time as well. I concur with the anxiolysis without sedation. I received Heisenburger's sample today, and it seems to be legitimate as far as I can tell from this initial test. I attached a picture of the sample next to rechem's product. The empty one being the HHD sample.

 

I found a couple studies to support your observations on persisting effects after the drug has cleared from the system, but I have some finals I need to take care of over the next 2 days. I'll be sure to post up my final opinion on Thursday.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Heisenburger]

The side-by-side is great, thanks. Really appreciate you doing that for us. If I get enough good feedback and continued interest, I will place another order with Nancy, probably for 100 grams this time, instead of 50. In the future, I’ll be selling it on a for-profit basis, but I will keep the price very reasonable. Absolutely no more than $20/gram is my goal, which is a very competitive price compared to THT’s, reChem’s, and Cerebral Health’s. My entire operation is basically a one-man show, which is partly what will enable me to keep the prices affordable.

[Heisenburger]

BTW, there is something I should have warned everybody about, but it slipped my mind. When you take the GTS-21, always have a glass of cold water right there, handy and ready, before you swallow the GTS-21. This stuff BURNS like a big dog. When you take the GTS-21, chase it immediately with at least a cup of cold water or it will burn for several minutes afterwards. If you chase it right away though, there will be only a slight, barely noticeable burn that will only last for a minute or two.

 

Also, this stuff stains everything it comes in contact with—even porcelain. I have several t-shirts now which have yellow stains which won’t come out no matter how many times I wash them. I highly recommend that you wear old clothes that you don’t care about when handling this stuff. For all intents and purposes, dress as if you were mixing paint.

 

On a happy note, four people have overpaid me as a way of saying “thanks” for expediting this whole affair. It totals about $20, and it will all eventually go to SENS. Just a drop in the bucket, really, but a big thanks to everybody who sent extra cash when making the transactions.

[dwaaam]

The post Gods giveth and they taketh. It arrived before the weekend, but another package containing supplements got seized in customs. Thank you Heisenburger for the fast shipping!

A short review of my experience with the substance:

To iterate Heisenburger's post, it is extremly acidic and burns your mouth for a while after ingestion. It also stains like a bitch! Not as bad as methylene blue though, but that is professionally used for staining biological samples.

 

I have tried three doses: 100, 200, and 300 mg, as a single dose in the morning, not spaced out as in the articles. And sadly I have not noticed any tangible effect. Can not say if it works as an a anxiolytic, because I do not really have any anxiety. It does not seem to improve my focus, memory or mood either, atleast that can not be attributed to daily variations in cognition or placebo.

I had high hopes for this nootropic, after hearing the positive reviews of others. But then again I have got some strange brain chemistry, I am non-responder to the most other substances I have tried. And there could be some confounding factors with the bupropion I am currently taking. But have not given up hope yet, will try it a couple of more times, maybe with a higher dose.

[Heisenburger]

I have tried three doses: 100, 200, and 300 mg, as a single dose in the morning, not spaced out as in the articles. And sadly I have not noticed any tangible effect. Can not say if it works as an a anxiolytic, because I do not really have any anxiety. It does not seem to improve my focus, memory or mood either, atleast that can not be attributed to daily variations in cognition or placebo.

 

This may actually be a good thing. My hypothesis is that people like me who have a virtually miraculous response to GTS-21 are self-medicating some form of ADHD. All my adult life I have had a fairly strong and persistent fear of driving, particularly on the freeway. My fear is not that I am going to be hurt or killed; it is a fear that that I am going to hurt or kill somebody else through a momentary act of inattentiveness. GTS-21 completely and totally ameliorates this fear, and in fact is the primary (but not the only) reason why I am so interested in investigating, obtaining, and using this substance. The fact that you haven’t had the ‘miracle response’ that others have experienced and reported is that you do not carry the genes for this particular form of ADHD. This has become a subject of intense interest to me now, and I am spending a considerable amount of time each day reading literature on the matter. Unfortunately, my relatively weak understanding of human molecular genetics is holding me back somewhat. But I am making progress, and hope to eventually incorporate what I’ve learned into the page I’m writing on GTS-21 on the wiki I started about a month ago as a response to a discussion about NSI-189. Several people were bemoaning the fact that the main NSI-189 thread has become far too bloated to assimilate, so a couple of other people and I are trying to consolidate a Reader’s Digest condensed version of it. I started the wiki as a place to put it if and when we ever find time to complete the project. Right now the main article has just a single sentence that I put there as a placeholder.

 

BTW, sorry to hear about your recent customs seizure. Those suck; I’ve had the good fortune of only getting one in my entire life, knock on wood. People who criticize the USFDA just don’t seem to get how lucky we really are to live in a country where we can legally obtain and possess a myriad of things that people in other countries just can’t have. I remember reading about 15 years ago that you can’t even buy Rogaine in England, even with a prescription. And with this new set of Draconian omnibus regulations that have thrown the entire EU into a nootropics Dark Age, I thank my lucky stars every day that I have the wondrously good fortune of being a United States citizen.

[bossmanglb]

Thank you, Heisenberg, for your efforts in arranging this group buy. 

 

So far I've orally taken 4 doses of GTS-21. First dose was an exploratory 75mg. Every dose thereafter has been 150mg.

I've abstained from all other supplements save caffeine via the occasionally but strong coffee and 3grams of Taurine at bedtime. 

No adverse sides to report. 

 

Young, neurotypical male. No physical impairments or neuropathologies.

 

 

1. No overt stimulation, as such. 

 However, a salient absence of mental fog. I've been  concentrating (and seamlessly switching across tasks) with above average focus in a number of academic and scientific hobbies. 

 

This is consistent with Safety, Pharmacokinetics, and Effects on Cognitive Function of Multiple Doses of GTS-21 in Healthy, Male Volunteers. Neuropsychopharmacology (2003) 28, 542–551

Which, though it find substantial and statistically signficant enhancements in cognition also found...

. "tasks for which there were no effects on performance as indicated by the primary analysis were the spatial working memory task, the delayed word recall task, overnight face recognition task, and the Bond– Lader self-ratings of mood and alertness."

 

2. No appreciable anxiolytic activity.  

 

3.As suggested by numerous lines of research, (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm....es/PMC3786254/_

I intend to monitor gum inflammation. I do have gingival issues and bleed brushing. 

 

4 .Hope to attempt  a few more objective cognitive batteries as I really don't put much stock mere introspection to be able to ascertain significant but modest increases in IQ. 

Suffice it to say, I do very much feel mentally on point. Reading seems to proceed more fluidly. I noticed I'm able to run rapidly through my interminable twitter-feed quickly without undue loss

of comprehension. 

 

5. Also plan on stacking this at some point. Travelling, but Unifiram, PRL-8-83, IDRA, modafinil, phenylpiracetam, DMAA, SR9009, bromantane, hydrafinil, and caffeine

are all at my disposal. Recommendations welcome. 

 

6. Considering alternative ROAs, but oral seems wisest. It's oral available enough. 

And organoleptically this doesn't appear to be the sort of substance one snorts haha. 

 

Not sure if transdermal (DMSO) would exacerbate the potential hepatotoxicity found in 3 of the volunteers in the aforementioned study?

Or given its acidity, aggravate the dermis. 

 

7. No comment yet on episodic memory. But this study has me thinking I should attempt a new piano piece: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3918170/

In general, I think it would be interesting if more nootropic users would try to sight read or memorize pieces when trialing new noots. 

 

Suggests at least the episodic memory aspect of the potential cognitive improvement may result only from serial dosing: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3212529/

[dwaaam]

I have some questions for people that feel the effects:

How long is the onset?
Do you feel any tolerance?
Is the effect cumulative, i.e. it builds up over time?

[Heisenburger]

2. No appreciable anxiolytic activity.  

 

Wow!!! Now THAT is very surprising. That effect from GTS-21 was the one that jumped out at me immediately. I was astonished by the strength of the anxiolysis. Human biochemical individuality—that’s the name of the game. It’s a double-edged sword, in that it adds to the intrigue of trying new substances, but at the same time can lead to serious disappointment when a compound doesn’t do for you what it does for everybody else. Reminds me of this classic Straight Dope Message Board thread from a guy who tried modafinil and pitched a fit when he didn’t develop superpowers. Great read if you don’t mind the small wall-of-text OP.

[bossmanglb]

Given your experience, I can totally see why you'd be surprised. But as I quoted above, there were no significant effects among the study participants on the Bond-Later self-ratings of mood or alertness. 

So by default, I don't think people should expect to feel anything on GTS-21. 

 

That said, I have a conspicuous lack of anxiety -- just two weeks ago my dad asked me, "Are you really always as calm as you appear to be?"

I've heard similar sentiments from friends and acquaintances all my life. 

 

GTS-21 could, of course, yet demonstrate anxiolytic powers for me under unusually stressful circumstances. Public performance is about the only thing that gets me.

In the day or so I've trialed it, however, I've just done little more than sedentary work and reading . 

 

Haha! That modafinil post is a hoot. Thanks for that. Talk about mismanaged expectations.

[Water Buffalo]

I have some questions for people that feel the effects:

How long is the onset?
Do you feel any tolerance?
Is the effect cumulative, i.e. it builds up over time?

 

Sorry about the late response. I too believe this product is genuine.

 

Onset is hard to determine. The placebo effect is quite strong. I believe that any substantial effects that I notice on the first day are placebo. I can't be sure, but you definitely feel it in the coming days.

 

Tolerance is subtle, I believe. I solve this by dropping down to once a day for a week or two, then using it twice a day for when I really need it. I also recommend that you abstain from using it when you can.

 

The effects are definitely cumulative. The effects are much more noticeable a week in, and I think 2 weeks in there is a slight bump. The effects stay pretty consistent after that if you follow the same dosing protocol that I used.

 

This is just one anecdote, though. It is hard to quantify the effects one is supposed to feel. I'm really not sure why they used a 24 hour dosing schedule in one trial, but a b.i.d. dosing protocol seems to be common practice. If you are keen on a quick onset, then I suggest 75-150 mg b.i.d.. Also, if you find that this compound may be for you, then I would suggest capping it.  A 0 capsule holds about 100 mg of rechem's product. A little bit of some filler powder might be necessary because I think HHD's is a little bit finer in consistency.

 

Edited by Water Buffalo, 24 May 2016 - 10:43 AM.

[Ark]

I wanted to share a dream I've been having, where I hypothetically capped The GSK with NSI 189 phosphate and Celastrus Paniculatus seeds together. I think it would have theoretically had a extremely positive effect, if it had happen in real life, instead of a dream.

Edited by Ark, 26 May 2016 - 01:44 PM.

[dwaaam]

I wanted to share a dream I've been having, where I hypothetically capped The GSK with NSI 189 phosphate and Celastrus Paniculatus seeds together. I think it would have theoretically had a extremely positive effect, if it had happen in real life, instead of a dream.

 

Eh, a dream as your source? And what is "The GSK"? You mean GTS-21? Or some drug from GlaxoSmithKline?
 

[Ark]

Opps autospeller, meant GTS-21.


And thx

[Ark]

I wanted to share a dream I've been having, where I hypothetically capped The GSK with NSI 189 phosphate and Celastrus Paniculatus seeds together. I think it would have theoretically had a extremely positive effect, if it had happen in real life, instead of a dream.

Eh, a dream as your source? And what is "The GSK"? You mean GTS-21? Or some drug from GlaxoSmithKline?

https://en.m.wikiped...ble_deniability

Edited by Ark, 26 May 2016 - 02:18 PM.

[Ark]

Getting neg repped for sharing my experiences, fascinating.

[bossmanglb]

Anyone hazard a guess if Pyritinol HCL would be a problematic pairing with GTS-21?

 

Back in the day, a departed user, Guacamolium, related that nicotine was truly awful to stack with pyritinol. He speculated that it had something to do with PDE. 

Admittedly, I can't follow that line of nootropic logic. Let alone understand why it would be a bad stack with GTS-21. 

 

Nonetheless, curious to hear anyone's thoughts on the matter, especially if they have attempted such a (similar) combo. 

 

Thanks!

[Heisenburger]

Is there any interest here in another group buy? I ran out this morning and would like to obtain more. Does anybody want to split the cost of another 50-gram or maybe 100-gram order? Anybody who participates would get the GTS-21 at about $14.50/gram or less, which is about one-fourth of reChem’s single-gram price. If I buy it again and pay for the entire order myself, I’ll have to charge at least $20/gram to make it worth the effort. But anybody who wishes to contribute a sizeable percentage of the initial cost would not have to pay the markup. Please PM if interested.

[gamesguru]

GTS-21 is the most powerful anxiolytic

you think it is more than just an α7 agonist, or nah?

[Heisenburger]

you think it is more than just an α7 agonist, or nah?

 

 

My best guess is that it’s treating some subtype of ADHD. Anxiety and ADHD go hand-in-hand like apple pie and Chevrolet. So far I’ve never read anything which would suggest that it acts at any site other than the alpha-7 nAChRs.