21 replies to this topic

[3AlarmLampscooter]

So a bit of background first.

I'm a 22 year old male with the Myers-Briggs type ENTJ. Although I function fairly well socially, I am frequently told that I tend not to pick up on people's emotions very well and typically focus on the meaning of words in social interaction rather than their context (for example, people saying "fine" can be a bit confusing, as people seem to say it when things aren't so "fine" too much of the time...).

I am fairly narcissistic, although not to levels diagnosable with NPD. I'm certainly above average in psychopathy, although not to levels diagnosable with ASPD (and don't get me started on the DSM, and how it doesn't differentiate between ASPD and Psychopathy...). I also some traits associated with Autism/ASD, although again not to a diagnosable degree.

Needless to say, I'm somewhat on the left hand side of the bell curve on empathy. Enough to cause me friction in social situations, despite my ability to function reasonably well.

I'd been reading over the last several months NPD, ASPD and ASD are likely related insofar as to all involving deficiencies in oxytocin production and/or oxytocin receptors. I figured that just because I didn't meet clinical criteria for any of these conditions didn't mean that some deficiency in oxytocin wasn't possibly responsible for my general emotional "coldness".

With that in mind, I decided to order some Syntocin nasal spray from unitedpharmacies.com

It arrived about a week later in a styrofoam box packed with "gel ice" coolers.

Today I tried it for the first time, and the effects were quite interesting.

The nasal spray burns a bit, but within a few seconds I feel my entire body relaxing. Sort of the same physical feeling as instantly being on a high dose of beta blockers. Mentally it instantly relieves anxiety far more powerfully than any other drugs I've tried (clonazepam, propranolol, afobazole, diphenhydramine, nicotinamide, ethanol). It also seems to exhibit entactogenic effects.

The direct effects wear off slowly to zero over about 15 minutes (as it has a half life of about 3-6 minutes in the blood), although it seems to have a much longer lasting impact on social behavior through some other mechanism. Today I found myself able to just "read" body language like I was never was able to before, and was able to "feel for" other people where I was previously more callous.

Certainly seems to fit in with early success in ongoing research for autism: http://sfari.org/new...quality-of-life

[YOLF]

Can you take a pic of it? I've used the stuff too, but not the pharma grade stuff.

[OpaqueMind]

You may find loving-kindness meditation beneficial. I've been doing it recently and have noticed that I am spontaneously more empathetic towards people, whereas before I felt somewhere very slightly along the autism spectrum in terms of inability to read people, understand intricate social cues etc. although it could also just be lack of life experience in these areas. Either way, it is very helpful. Google is your friend.

Also, I've got some oxytocin body spray on the way, so shall contribute my findings here if and when anything substantial comes up.

[Colour]

Updates?

[hfritz]

Updates?

must have not worked?

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Oh, I probably should have replied a lot earlier. It does indeed work quite well, just not if you are planning on doing quantitative work. Highly entactogenic, makes socializing a more natural.

[Colour]

Have you experienced tolerance? Are you taking it everyday?

[3AlarmLampscooter]

I take it on average perhaps 3-4 days a week, and have noticed no tolerance. If anything, I've been "learning" to socialize better while off oxytocin.

[YOLF]

cycling is important IMO with OA. As 3Lamp sorta mentioned, the raw critical thinking gains one achieves in a less emotional state can be lost on OA. Cycling will allow you to improve both critical thinking as well as emotional thinking and use the better critical thinking (being less distracted by emotional feelings) to have a more technical understanding of the emotional side. Eventually, both sides will improve and work better together.

[taktikz]

I tried Oxytocin nasal spray several years ago and it seemed to relax me, but I don't remember it being very powerful.

[2crack]

Ive tried oxytocin and its effects are minimal/placebo. There's an antidepressant that increases the release of oxyotcin, sorry cant remember the name.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

There's an antidepressant that increases the release of oxyotcin, sorry cant remember the name.

Buspirone. More subtle than actual oxytocin, in my experience.

And the effects are going to really vary from person to person. Some people have OXTR mutations and won't respond at all.

[2crack]

Yes that's it.... guess that saves me trying it. Hopefully a non peptide oxytocin agonist will be available soon.

[PositiveAtom]

Are you still utilizing this and how has it made you a better/worse person? What ways worse, what ways better?
Are the 10 minute effects still apparent, as well as the improved (better learning of) social skills even way after dosing that 3alarmScooter talks about?

[YOLF]

I haven't used it in around 2 years. I'm certainly wiser. How things turn out for you depends on the experiences you've had in life. You may be jaded or you may be very happy, but you'll know where you are and won't be blind to much. If you keep using, you can learn the social skills, but to learn the right social skills, you'll need a guide. You'll have to make lots of mistakes though, but everytime you do, you'll quickly recognize them. I suggest doing alot of reflection before jumping into the social scene and taking notes, there is alot to understand and alot that will have to change in how you interact. You're probably pretty committed to some bad habits that will be difficult to break. Worse yet, you probably thought copying the habit made you cool b/c you didn't understand it, so you're going to feel bad about it and you'll keep discovering other habits that formed based on that one or track it back to another. Oxytocin is a journey of self and social discovery if you need it. Your friends probably weren't who you thought they were and you're going to be left at square one. You also won't be learning what others have learned in an uninterupted linear fashion. So you won't feel the same way about things that others do as you'll see it differently. Some things obviously didn't work as well for you and it was because people invest in the best possible returns and you weren't as good an investment in their eyes (thus your anxiety persists).

Of course that all assumes that your anxiety/depression is deep. If you did have that uninterupted linear experience as others do, I would imagine it would return you to it and maybe make you wiser to the other side of things. Can't speak from experience though.

[PositiveAtom]

Would anyone know the powder dosage in milligrams or micrograms?

Edited by PositiveAtom, 27 January 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[YOLF]

It's very tiny! Not really something you could make yourself, you'd have to make it in 5 gallon drums to get an accurate dose at something like 6mcg IIRC and wouldn't be able to use much of the 5 gallons by the time it expired. You might be able to get someone to do a group buy though. BTW, too much can kill you or cause blood clots and also cause you to develop tolerance. I always experienced the best results when taking exactly the right amount. Too much and it'll make you tired and lazy until you don't benefit from it anymore. Tolerance will build up quick if you abuse it and you won't be able to get the effects you need most.

[PositiveAtom]

Thanks cryonicsculture, would you be able to take a minute out of your busy schedule and link to where you can find the dose?
It'd be much appreciated since the powder is at good cost. ~$40 for 100 milligrams/10k doses.
One can easily measure out 10 milligrams, put it in 1 liter of water and have 1660 doses. Not too hard I imagine.

If you can find the link that says like 50mcg, all the better!

[YOLF]

Looks like it is 10 IUs, so you'll have to do some math to work it out. I can't say I remember what I did to get it mixed, but if you're buying powder, you could ask them to mix it before shipping or do the calculations for you.

[David Middlemiss]

Hi Guys,

 

Hope You Can Help Here?

 

My Questions are as follows

 

Would it be best that I buy pharmaceutical grade animal/vetiranarian  OT=Oxytocin 

 

Is it a lot stronger?

 

I can buy  Oxytocin 20ml 10UI per Ml (at $34) 

 

Which spray should I purchase? How Much saline should I mix In 

and can I usine a sudafed 15ml nasal spray to administer, does anyone know the size of each dosage?

 

Has anyone trialled any Pharma grade, vetiranarian OT

  Or should I try standard OxyLuv OXYTOCIN NASAL SPRAYby PherLuv Deemed to be Oxytocin Nasal Spray Content: 1.0 oz Each spray contains 10IU of Oxytocin. Oxytocin Potency: 5/5

Or Could anyone Supply any reliable source I may use

Thanks

David

[YOLF]

Hi David, you can measure the dose by weight. Put water or the soluntion in the sprayer and spray it into a dish on your mg or g scale until you get an appreciable figure that is above the scale's accuracy variance. Then divide the weight by the number of sprays and that's approximately how many ml of solution per spray (1ml = 1mg of water). If the solution has more than just water and ng of ingredients per ml, you might need to use a more complicated method. If you can't figure it out, just ask.

 

Depending on your usage of it, I'd suggest the body spray. It won't cause amnesia and it won't cause radical changes in your brain chemistry. The body spray also doesn't affect others any differently than being in the mood that it puts you in would affect them naturally. The body spray is the most natural way to get the benefits... The drug will have drug like side effects.

 

I wouldn't worry about it being pharma or not... they only make the ingredient for pharma grade, and the supplement and cosmetics companies making it will all be using pharma grade ingredients. The only thing to worry about is more to do with consistent dosing and uniform potency... One thing I can tell you on that front is that it may take a little emotional exercise or emotive reminiscing of someone else's circumstance  or a romantic memory or fantasy to get the receptors in the nose working before the oxytocin decomposes... that's more important when using the nasal spray... the body spray, though spread out over a longer amount of time will get to you and have you in a feedback loop of thinking about these things one way or the other and the only problem there is the denatured alcohol that's generally used as a carrier.

Edited by YOLF, 18 October 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[YOLF]

Oh, and another update - I've gotten pretty good at using my endogenous oxytocin capacities, though I do need a bump to bring me back from utter social despair from time to time. I've certainly gotten stronger emotionally, though not in the sense that I'm not emotional, just that I stick to my own emotional agenda and don't get side tracked, distracted, misdirected or sucked in to emotional nonsense. I feel more confident in supporting my opinions and the disruption to my usual thinking capacities has largely vanished as I've gotten more accustomed to using it and I've resolved more conflicts in the two ways of thinking.

 

I'm still not where I want to be though... I'm still uncertain about interactions, and I think it will just be a matter of getting more experience as I develop deeper, longer, and more open, relationships. But the capacity is there to understand w/ or w/o the oxytocin, in all cases but being completely in those down and out feedback loops.