199 replies to this topic

[researchist]

http://users.rcn.com...ages/L/LTP.html Background on LTP.

[chung_pao]

http://users.rcn.com...ages/L/LTP.html Background on LTP.

I'm interested.

I appreciate your initiative KoolK3n. Our problem seems to be the inconvenience of the method of administration.
Can it be ordered diluted?

In my experience, CILTEP and modafinil have been the most effective nootropics to date. If you make any progress on a project that synergizes with these mechanisms, I'd appreciate if you'd involve me in group buys.


Thanks for the link researchist.
I've always felt AMPAkines are more active in the process of Retrieval of memory, not encoding. This seems to agree with the article you linked.
It seems the process of memorization is becoming increasingly clear and defined. And as expected, it's just another protein-synthesis dependent anabolic process of the body, following the same patterns as synthesis of any tissue.

[researchist]

KoolK3n mentioned transdermal, works for most things. Maybe intranasal would work. Perhaps worth researching its not expensive.

[researchist]

http://clinicaltrial...&recr=Open&pg=1 Check out study number 13 just for grins. It might be good evidence that this is timely and relevant.

[uralsky]

http://clinicaltrial...&recr=Open&pg=1 Check out study number 13 just for grins. It might be good evidence that this is timely and relevant.

GLYX-13 looks very interesting. It has been mentioned few times on the forum. Might be a candidate for the next group buy. I am particularly impressed with its therapeutic index of 500, meaning it is almost impossible to overdose. Injection route is an issue though.

[researchist]

It is interesting that its a government trial of a nootropic on healthy individuals too. It may indicate that the old perception by the medical that medicine is only for treating diseases could be changing. It was the wrong venue for me to post it, I meant to put it somewhere else. Maybe someone should start a thread about it. This GEBR-7b looks like it is worthwhile exploring. Long term potentiation is an interesting phenomena. This class of compounds is proven to improve memory. I think I would try it.

[Metagene]

http://clinicaltrial...&recr=Open&pg=1 Check out study number 13 just for grins. It might be good evidence that this is timely and relevant.

GLYX-13 looks very interesting. It has been mentioned few times on the forum. Might be a candidate for the next group buy. I am particularly impressed with its therapeutic index of 500, meaning it is almost impossible to overdose. Injection route is an issue though.

I'm ok with injections. Price seems to be the biggest obstacle with GLYX-13.

[KoolK3n]

I'm interested.

I appreciate your initiative KoolK3n. Our problem seems to be the inconvenience of the method of administration.
Can it be ordered diluted?

In my experience, CILTEP and modafinil have been the most effective nootropics to date. If you make any progress on a project that synergizes with these mechanisms, I'd appreciate if you'd involve me in group buys.

I got a few questions of my own to ask them. I'll put forward an inquiry soon. As for synergies, I was thinking a2a agonists like Clonidine but the two just seems to cancel each other out.

I'm ok with injections. Price seems to be the biggest obstacle with GLYX-13.

Metagene, are you interested in a GEBR-7b group buy? We're gaining some momentum steadily.

Edited by KoolK3n, 28 July 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[Metagene]

Yes but I'm biting off more than I can chew atm. I would be willing to split with someone.

[KoolK3n]

Yes but I'm biting off more than I can chew atm. I would be willing to split with someone.

That's fine. It'll be another month before I start collecting any money. In the meantime, I'll try and round up more participants.

[researchist]

I will go in on some.

[uralsky]

The fact that GEBR-7b was delivered by i.p. (rats) or s.c. (mice) in the study quoted by KoolK3n does not mean it cannot be taken orally.
Rolipram was studied in a similar ways too in animal studies. In clinical trials though it was used as an oral drug. Maximum tolerated dose was established 5 mg taken 3 times a day, and it was still not effective enough to continue.
Assuming GEBR-7b is 10 times more active as rolipram and has similar bioavailability one can speculate that the effective dose might be ca. 1 mg a day or more. Thanks for its better expected tolerability GEBR-7b could still be used at effective doses providing that cheap enough source is found.
My guess we have to target ~ 1g of material a piece in a group buy

[KoolK3n]

The fact that GEBR-7b was delivered by i.p. (rats) or s.c. (mice) in the study quoted by KoolK3n does not mean it cannot be taken orally.
Rolipram was studied in a similar ways too in animal studies. In clinical trials though it was used as an oral drug. Maximum tolerated dose was established 5 mg taken 3 times a day, and it was still not effective enough to continue.
Assuming GEBR-7b is 10 times more active as rolipram and has similar bioavailability one can speculate that the effective dose might be ca. 1 mg a day or more. Thanks for its better expected tolerability GEBR-7b could still be used at effective doses providing that cheap enough source is found.
My guess we have to target ~ 1g of material a piece in a group buy

Ah you beat me too it. Yes I agree. We need more than 5mg. A cheaper source will be required. GEBR-7b is 3-10 times more potent than Rolipram so I assume halfway or near halfway at 5x potency. In figure two here: http://www.ncbi.nlm....95/figure/Fig2/ (study linked a few posts ago). An effective dose for monkeys was .03mg/kg which wasn't that much better than .01mg/kg. In humans, this dosage would equate to .1mg/d-.3mg/d depending on if you wanted to save money. This was done through intramuscular injection. The bioavailability of oral GEBR-7b is largely unknown but by all means we should test for it. The problem with Rolipram is that the dosage used for cognitive enhancement usually meant emesis. If GEBR-7b is mostly emesis free, a much larger dosage of it can be used. I guess we could experiment with upping the dosage until emesis occurs, which can be useful because then it can be a useful marker of it possibly working? After that just lower the dosage until your comfortable. 1g sounds about right but first we need to find a decent supplier with independent lab testing for verification.

Edited by KoolK3n, 30 July 2013 - 12:40 AM.

[KoolK3n]

I will go in on some.

Gotcha! You're good.

Edited by KoolK3n, 30 July 2013 - 12:43 AM.

[KoolK3n]

Rolipram may treat anhedonia: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3356953/

[KoolK3n]

Sent out inquiries for quotes. Should take a few days. I asked for 10 grams. So if the price is right, I can only take 10 people. You may also split it with someone else if you'd like.

Edited by KoolK3n, 01 August 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[PWAIN]

If the price is not too high, then I'm in.

[KoolK3n]

Still negotiating a price with EMDMillipore. The price would certainly be higher but it may end up being the most reliable. One of their production facilities I'm in contact with is only a few dozen miles away. They also ship with dry ice to prevent any degradation. Since the quality is guaranteed, we don't need a 3rd party lab to inspect it, so this saves a couple hundred bucks and spares some of the GEBR-7b. I'm also in contact with several other companies. From the looks of overall current talks, here's what it may boil down to:
Amount of participates: 10-20
Price per participant: $100-$200
Amount per participant: 250mg-1gram (I.M route would last a LIFETIME, oral method would last 60-365 days).
I will get back to you guys with any further news asap. But everything is coming along perfectly.

[gnappi]

Still negotiating a price with EMDMillipore. The price would certainly be higher but it may end up being the most reliable. One of their production facilities I'm in contact with is only a few dozen miles away. They also ship with dry ice to prevent any degradation. Since the quality is guaranteed, we don't need a 3rd party lab to inspect it, so this saves a couple hundred bucks and spares some of the GEBR-7b. I'm also in contact with several other companies. From the looks of overall current talks, here's what it may boil down to:
Amount of participates: 10-20
Price per participant: $100-$200
Amount per participant: 250mg-1gram (I.M route would last a LIFETIME, oral method would last 60-365 days).
I will get back to you guys with any further news asap. But everything is coming along perfectly.

Please, include me in this group buy!!!

[KoolK3n]

Great news guys! I've reviewed all the quotes that were received the past few days. We are able to get 10 grams of GEBR-7b synthesized for $1285 (includes shipping). Upon delivery, I am to ship a small portion of it to a 3rd party lab for verification. I have already arranged for that . With ten participants, I would need roughly $150 each. This includes the cost of me shipping it to you. The target purity is 97%. One last thing I completely forgot to mention. Rodent memory testing is only limited to couple strategies. By that I mean the researchers can only test for things like contextual learning, object recognition, and spatial memory. That means GEBR-7b's memory boosting capabilities is a lot stronger than I originally thought. I so wanna combine this with ISRIB. What do ya'll think? I'm ready to start the synthesis process tomorrow! I will have more details on getting payment from you guys tomorrow.

Edited by KoolK3n, 08 August 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[KoolK3n]

Last call. ANYONE INTERESTED SPEAK UP NOW. Since each participant will be receiving a huge bulk supply. A second group buy may not happen for a while.

[researchist]

Sounds good KoolK3n. What are you waiting for?. I hope I'm in on the ISRIB too, any news on that?. Will this lab make ISRIB? The $150 is ok. How are you going to collect it? I anticipate this being a worthwhile compound to investigate.

[KoolK3n]

Sounds good KoolK3n. What are you waiting for?. I hope I'm in on the ISRIB too, any news on that?. Will this lab make ISRIB? The $150 is ok. How are you going to collect it? I anticipate this being a worthwhile compound to investigate.

I will look into ISRIB being synthesized for us once the NMR and HPLC analysis results for GEBR-7b come in from that 3rd party lab. Testing will cost over $100. I will try and cover any additional costs and fees using personal funds. I'm really bustin my balls for you guys here. So I am bumping the final price to $160 per participant. This is the final price. The reason for doing it tomorrow is simply somnolence. It's 1 in the morning researchist...see you tomorrow

[PWAIN]

I'm in.

[Psionic]

I am interested, preferably with splitted dose with someone

[PWAIN]

Anyone here from Australia and want to split? If not, I'll go for a full share...

[KoolK3n]

Here's who I got so far:
-Chung Pao
-Researchist
-Gnappi
-Uralsky
-Metagene
-TheRockst4r
-PWAIN
-Psionic
-KoolK3n
-[Open Slot]

Failure to comply with up to date instructions may result in termination of participation. I want to move forward with the synthesis ASAP so I will not wait for you. If we move with speed, you can receive your share within 8 weeks.

Payment Instructions (so far):
-Create a Western Union account and link it to your bank account

I recently had a legal name change and am in the middle of creating a new account with US bank. It'll be a couple of days before I can start receiving money. So in the meantime, move around your finances and have the $160 ready to go and create that Western Union account. Await for further updates through PM soon.

I am aware a few of you want to split your share. I will try to look into it and report back with what options you'll have.

Edited by KoolK3n, 08 August 2013 - 06:31 PM.

[KoolK3n]

Expect an update in a few hours. Be sure to have the money set by tomorrow because I am ready to start receiving them. I will PM you later tonight (USA time).

Edited by KoolK3n, 10 August 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[allstargajo]

For some reason this as completely passed me by. KoolK3n have you got this started already? Any slots open? If available please PM me. If not best of luck for everyone involved.
BTW, what company did you go with? Have you managed to negotiate successfully with Millipore?

[researchist]

Hi allstargajo, We are at the last minute in need of a participant. I don't know what company he went with I keep meaning to ask. Millipore has it already in production, but lets see what he says. We need to hear from him to make sure everything is still on track. It has been a few days since we lost one of out participants. I'm sure KoolK3n will raise his head and at least make a post to the list. I sent you a PM earlier and can follow up later depending on what we hear from KoolK3n says.