160 replies to this topic

[LIB]

Thanks for the response.

I enjoy partaking now and then. It seems to have a therapeutic effect that's hard to come by from any other substance. But I do loathe the apathetic, burnt out feeling.

I was just about finished with my piracetam and had mixed results with it. After reading your posts and large doses, I tried my last few doses at around 5 grams a dose. Taking maybe 10-20 grams a day for a few days. Big difference. If I can get these results reliably, I'll be thrilled.

I ran out of my small amount left and I already have a replacement order from smartpowders on the way. I have new excitement with piracetam and what it can do for my work/school life.

[acantelopepope]

No, I have no such mental conditions, though my economic life is dogged by poverty, and the unpredictability that goes with it. I am also a very political person and spend some time every day cursing various habits and institutions I see around me. Being at the very bottom, I'm a scrapper that is always ready for a real fight.

Nonetheless, my previous two previous posts compare the changes that took place over the last year and two months, the time during which Piracetam rewrote the ground rules insofar as the attributes that it changed.

These changes were slow but consistent, and persist ever more strongly to this day.

It should be noted that besides the lack of fatigue, only minor consistent changes in personality attributes were noted. Particularly enjoyable has been the decrease in importance of trivial emotions, along with the enhancement of emotion when it relates to, is tied and connected to, something important to my higher thoughts. Nobody has mentioned this before, so either they didn't experience it or didn't have any really important thoughts which could link with emotions to make dancing pairs.

Piracetam thus enhances the power of the conscious selector in modulating the emotional subsystem.

Such a change in emphasis I find thoroughly empowering. Dangerously empowering, especially in a society so sick, so full of corruption. You could say that a sick society thrives on sick, sheepish individuals to perpetuate it by their passivity. To this extent, Piracetam has become a key to both personal renovation and political activity, since it greases the wheel of connective thought, conceptual associations which tend to lead toward the causes of our existence.

I find it a substance which very much encourages anarchistic, antiauthoritarian thought. As I believe anything which enhances higher mental functions would be. Perhaps if my bent of personality was different, then the outcomes would be too. To the extent that Piracetam makes me grow, it can also bring growing pains. Those quaint processes thought to be long finished years ago, turns out they just slowed or stopped due to brain concretization. Refluidization and new growth bring the potential for both positive and negative outcomes, depending on lots of stuff.

It should also be remembered that whole classes of certain intellectually enabling drugs have been banned in most countries. Not only for their beneficial addition to the 'war on drugs' witchhunt, but I suspect to prevent large segments of the population from challenging illegitimate authority. LSD was seen by the US government as dangerous - not to its people but to its power structure. If they were so tenderly concerned with the health of their citizens, free universal health coverage could have been implemented, at a lower cost than the entire war on drugs. Leary's promotions really drove that message home: he was literally broadcasting the message that it could be used to break the political structure. He wasn't ready for the massive retaliation by threatened interests with the entire might of the US State behind them: the coordinated attack of an interwoven system with lots of tools at its disposal to deal with disruptive folks like him.

How else can 1% of the US population continue to get away with stealing 40% of real income?

Piracetam seems to have made it under the radar because it's thought to be 'weak'. It is not weak, but underused and underappreciated in my opinion. It has the potential to far exceed the feared LSD and similars in breaking power, depending on what direction its powers are taken in. And that is where the person comes in. For perhaps as much or more than any psychedelic, Piracetam is a ship waiting for direction - a sword which could cut in one or both directions. To remember those directions, and that there is always one more than it seemed there was yesterday - that is its own truly unique contribution.

I think that's all wonderful, but what I would like to know is why it worked so well for about 3 months and then gradually it produced effects so bad that I can no longer take it without being tossed into confusion and despair.

If piracetam worked as well for me now as it did from December through February, I would agree with a lot of the statements you are making about it. But now I am leaning towards believing that the continual upregulation of Ach receptors must have, and will inevitably, lead to a downward spiral.

I have been trying to figure this one out for the past four months. It is the reason that I joined this board. It is the reason I read cryptic studies late into the night... asking "why did piracetam + choline stop working for me?"

I have an ever increasing pool of theories, but no answers.

Has anyone experienced anything similar? How about the people for whom piracetam genuinely does not work to begin with-- (I'm not talking about the people who tried it for a few days and didn't notice anything immediately, but the ones who are veteran smart drug users and categorically determined that it was not effective for them).

I read a post on here about a guy that piracetam stopped working for him and he read something where it may be possible that you're low on pregnelone, and supplementation brings back the positive effect of piracetam.

Who was that poster? Is he still around so that we can ask him?

I think I came across something that said something similar, about the way to render Piracetam ineffective being by removing some sort of adrenal gland or something.

[LIB]

acantelopepope,

Link to the post: http://www.imminst.o...o...ost&p=57326

"Just a suggestion on Piracteam for people who it does not work well for. I took it for several years in my 30's. I stopped due to lack of availability and high cost. Then recently I started again about a year ago. I noticed it still worked well for me but did not work quite as well. At first I attributed this to the fact that it was likely cheap generic and not quite as potent. Then I did some research and found out that our utilization of Piracetam depends on our production of Pregnenolone. This is the master hormone and low levels of it cause several things like a lack of DHEA and Testosterone and other hormones.

The 2 are linked so I would suggest to anyone over 30 or 35 anyway or anyone with lower than normal testosterone levels or just anyone that piracetam does not work for to start taking Pregnenolone about 20 to 30mg per day. Try taking it at the same time you does with Piracetam.

It is cheap and very safe to use for men or women so this experiment might just be worth your time and money to try.

It is a performance enhancer that is still legal to use ever for competition athletes. "

[acantelopepope]

acantelopepope,

Link to the post: http://www.imminst.o...o...ost&p=57326

"Just a suggestion on Piracteam for people who it does not work well for. I took it for several years in my 30's. I stopped due to lack of availability and high cost. Then recently I started again about a year ago. I noticed it still worked well for me but did not work quite as well. At first I attributed this to the fact that it was likely cheap generic and not quite as potent. Then I did some research and found out that our utilization of Piracetam depends on our production of Pregnenolone. This is the master hormone and low levels of it cause several things like a lack of DHEA and Testosterone and other hormones.

The 2 are linked so I would suggest to anyone over 30 or 35 anyway or anyone with lower than normal testosterone levels or just anyone that piracetam does not work for to start taking Pregnenolone about 20 to 30mg per day. Try taking it at the same time you does with Piracetam.

It is cheap and very safe to use for men or women so this experiment might just be worth your time and money to try.

It is a performance enhancer that is still legal to use ever for competition athletes. "

Thanks for that. The problem is, I'm 19 years old and in pretty good physical condition. Would caffeine abuse or depression cause some sort of adrenal shortage?

Also found this: http://www.nootropic...lthyvolunt.html

What do you guys make of that? I'm not sure I understand its implications right now.

[acantelopepope]

Here are some more studies. I can't understand these right now, can you guys?


Piracetam & Corticosterone
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6650196


and this is interesting: serotonin's relationship with serum corticosterone concentration: http://content.karge....asp?Doi=123057


and: http://content.karge....asp?Doi=125586

[LIB]

Here are some more studies. I can't understand these right now, can you guys?


Piracetam & Corticosterone
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6650196


and this is interesting: serotonin's relationship with serum corticosterone concentration: http://content.karge....asp?Doi=123057


and: http://content.karge....asp?Doi=125586

According to this post by Pinball directly below the one I posted:

"I think you are onto something vortex... I thought I read something similary. Either DHEA or too much cortisol completely eliminates the affects of Piracetem. Too bad, my memory does not allow me to recall what it's relationship is with this. I think I remember reading some stuff on Pubmed and rats with cortisol or lacking DHEA.

If someone knows, that would be great to find out."

This suggests that the source of the problem might be too much cortisol. When you have too much cortisol all of your hormones become less effective at their normal levels.

Read more about excess cortisol here: http://www.virginiah...rtisolzava.html


Anyways, piracetam seems to be working again for me since I started to take DHEA, pregnelone and phosphatidylserine. phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol levels.

[LIB]

More info about excess cortisol and piracetam....

Elevated corticosteroid levels block the memory-improving effects of nootropics and cholinomimetics.Mondadori C, Ducret T, Häusler A.
Ciba-Geigy Ltd., Pharmaceutical Research Department, Basle, Switzerland.

Oral pretreatment of mice with aldosterone or corticosterone blocked the memory-enhancing effects of piracetam, pramiracetam, aniracetam and oxiracetam in a dose-related manner, without, however, impairing the animals' learning performance. The improvement of memory induced by physostigmine, arecoline, and tacrine (THA) was similarly inhibited. The fact that elevated steroid levels suppress the memory-enhancing effects of entirely different substances could indicate that these substances have a common site of action. In the light of new observations showing increased cortisol concentrations in Alzheimer patients, this steroid dependency of the effects of memory enhancers might explain why only a limited number of these patients respond to therapy with nootropics or cholinomimetics.

[caffeinehead]

Another reason (among many) to avoid stress, which shortens life and makes it unpleasant. Stress elevates cortisol.

If you've got chronically elevated cortisol, however, piracetam's the least of your worries: here's some of the major consequences:

• Impaired cognitive performance
• Suppressed thyroid function
• Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia
• Decreased bone density
• Decrease in muscle tissue
• Higher blood pressure
• Lowered immunity and inflammatory responses in the body, slowed wound healing, and other health consequences
• Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with a greater amount of health problems than fat deposited in other areas of the body. Some of the health problems associated with increased stomach fat are heart attacks, strokes, the development of , higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), which can lead to other health problems!

So sit back, light a reefer and de-stress And while you're at it, quit the caffeine: not only does it directly induce stress, but also elevates cortisol:

"High levels of cortisol, which unfortunately can stay elevated as long as 18 hours after a cup of coffee, will compromise your immune system and interfere with your body's ability to fight off pathogens."

We're living in a society of total caffeine users, and people are wondering why piracetam's not working so well? Ironically, piracetam is a total caffeine replacement, but only if caffeine is given up entirely - else the addiction cycle won't be broken. Caffeine decreases the effectiveness of piracetam by its elevation of cortisol. All reports of 'crashes' when using piracetam are by those also taking caffeine.

Alcohol also increases cortisol:

"In response to alcohol, the levels of cortisol - the chief glucocorticoid hormone in humans - can be substantial and even surpass the levels typically seen in response to various stressful circumstances."

And we're also living in a society of alcohol users. Interesting, no?

Maybe the reason a substantial portion of people who try piracetam get no good effect or bad effects is they are overmedicated with these other poisons.

Isochroma, your earlier posts resemble my thought process after taking too much adderall and being temporarily manic. maybe bump down the piracetam? How are you going to maintain such a high dose of piracetam for the rest of your life?

[LIB]

Just a heads up on why I use Phosphatidyl Serine. I've been using Phosphatidyl Serine to lower cortisol caused by my mercury toxicity issues. It seems to be working because I've quickly gained lots of muscle back I used to have when I worked out a lot. I haven't changed my diet or workout regime, just added Phosphatidyl Serine.

Edited by LIB, 22 October 2009 - 01:05 AM.

[acantelopepope]

Just a heads up on why I use Phosphatidyl Serine. I've been using Phosphatidyl Serine to lower cortisol caused by my mercury toxicity issues. It seems to be working because I've quickly gained lots of muscle back I used to have when I worked out a lot. I haven't changed my diet or workout regime, just added Phosphatidyl Serine.

Today I took roughly 40-50mg Pregnenolone. It was a hassle because the caps I have are 100mg, but everywhere I've checked the recommended dosages are much lower. So I had to uncap one and pour half of it into a container. Now I'm not sure whether I should take that in powder form-- would it still be bioavailable?

I also took Tribulus Terrestrius. I'm about to take 300mg Phosphatidyl Serine on LIB's recommendation.

I may go to my PCP to have a cortisol/hormone panel done, but for now I'm going to see what I can do about restoring them on my own.

I abused caffeine supplements for three years before burning out entirely and being forced to switch to antidepressants after the crash. During those three years I had a wild home life, I played 3 sports, got little sleep, and demanded straight A's of myself.


When the effects of piracetam and aniracetam started to fail me after an amazing couple months, it was following a nasty scabies infection, which caused me to stay up most nights tearing open my own skin. Ok, well that's a dramatization, but the point is that I didn't sleep well. I also got a girlfriend, and, I don't know how else to say this, but we had way too much sex. Seriously, I couldn't pull this girl off me. Which also cut into my sleep . All of this lead to a crash and a depression that lasted over the summer...

So I'm really really hoping that by addressing adrenal/stress issues I can start feeling energized again, and then add piracetam back to my regime.

Has anyone done an adrenal recovery program before?

[caffeinehead]

If you're going to criticize me for providing the hard facts about what appears to be your poison of choice, at least have the courtesy and make the effort to provide a case and facts to back it up.

Not only was your post non-contributory and attacked me personally, but it also contains a grammatical error.

Until then, for everyone who complains about piracetam not working: take a week or two off the Big Bad Three then try again.

Hey, sorry about that. I didn't express myself properly, I was concerned - I didn't mean to offend ya.

On a side note, you mentioned that you don't use caffeine. I'm dependent on caffeine atm (about 300 mg a day)...was wondering if piracetam helped you kick the caffeine habbit.

My order of piracetam+alpha GPC comes in soon so I'm excited to try it. Should I start tapering off the caffeine and eliminate it when I start using piracetam? Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

[LIB]

If you're going to criticize me for providing the hard facts about what appears to be your poison of choice, at least have the courtesy and make the effort to provide a case and facts to back it up.

Not only was your post non-contributory and attacked me personally, but it also contains a grammatical error.

Until then, for everyone who complains about piracetam not working: take a week or two off the Big Bad Three then try again.

Hey, sorry about that. I didn't express myself properly, I was concerned - I didn't mean to offend ya.

On a side note, you mentioned that you don't use caffeine. I'm dependent on caffeine atm (about 300 mg a day)...was wondering if piracetam helped you kick the caffeine habbit.

My order of piracetam+alpha GPC comes in soon so I'm excited to try it. Should I start tapering off the caffeine and eliminate it when I start using piracetam? Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

edit - dont' know why it underlined and tried to link some of my reply...


My 2 cents. It seems there is some connection with either not enough DHEA or excess cortisol causing piracetam not to work as well, or at all. (excess cortisol makes all of your hormones less available)

I'm taking Phosphatidyl Serine to lower cortisol, and DHEA anways. I'm doing this because of mercury toxic issues. I tried piracetam in the past and had so-so experiences. I gave piracetam another shot since adding Phosphatidyl Serine and DHEA and I'm noticing positive effects.

Do you NEED to cut out caffiene to have piracetam work? I don't know. I've stopped drinking it since it raises cortisol. Taking piracetam seems to have made the "withdrawl" a lot easier. I don't really "crave" coffee, its just been more of a habit that I consciously stop myself from doing now.

Edited by LIB, 23 October 2009 - 10:02 PM.

[matthias7]

I'm taking Phosphatidyl Serine to lower cortisol, and DHEA anways. I'm doing this because of mercury toxic issues. I tried piracetam in the past and had so-so experiences. I gave piracetam another shot since adding Phosphatidyl Serine and DHEA and I'm noticing positive effects.

Thanks. Yes PAS and DHEA will block cortisol. PAS will boost testos. DHEA will provide stimulation in the absence of cortisol. Long term DHEA needs adaptogens to get off it (cortisol to recover).

[acantelopepope]

I'm taking Phosphatidyl Serine to lower cortisol, and DHEA anways. I'm doing this because of mercury toxic issues. I tried piracetam in the past and had so-so experiences. I gave piracetam another shot since adding Phosphatidyl Serine and DHEA and I'm noticing positive effects.

Thanks. Yes PAS and DHEA will block cortisol. PAS will boost testos. DHEA will provide stimulation in the absence of cortisol. Long term DHEA needs adaptogens to get off it (cortisol to recover).

Would you elaborate on this


Cortisol to recover? What type of "DHEA recovery schedule" are you suggesting?

[Davevanza]

Update. I continue to use 4 x 5g doses of Piracetam per day! The effects are nothing short of absolutely amazing. I feel like I'm becoming GOD!

Yes, I go to bed between 2-4 am each morning... last night I hit the sack at 4.15a and this morning woke up at 10.30, about 6 hours sleep. All day not a TRACE of tiredness. I DON'T do caffeine or any other stimulant during the day. Working all day a mile a minute, with that wonderful CLARITY, POWER & SPEED! Now I break ALL the rules and live a golden existence of absolute mental perfection.

I've got kilos of this stuff in constant stock, and will buy more kilos at the end of the month. My goal is to accumulate hundreds of kilos in a cache in case it is banned, etc.

Also I'm interested in a method to recycle this from the urine, since it isn't metabolized there's currently 100% waste, as it is just excreted by the kidneys.

Choline in sufficient quantity is still provided by eating four raw EXTRA LARGE egg yolks per day. The whites are cooked and eaten. I found that six raw egg yolks per day was so rich that it was causing me to feel too full for too long, and have some digestive clogging/discomfort. I do have a very weak digestion; most people should have no problem with six.

Dear God,

Please don't drink your urine. Or even distill Piracetam out of it. Piracetam isn't going anywhere.

Experiencing any sides from your Goliath-size dose?

But I am glad it is going well for you (I'm a Piracetam fan) and I can relate to your other comment somewhere about Aniracetam making you tired. I found that effect the (very) few times I tried it.

Take Care,

One Of Your Flock




[Just so a newbie knows, usual Piracetam dose ranges from 2.4g - 9.8g/ day (many like the 4.8-6.4g/day range and some benefit from very low-doses, especially if the are on a large stack.)]

I read somewhere that Aniracetam is fat soluble.....(or maybe I'm wrong...)

As I know not all Racetams have the same effects in our bodies.

I tried Levetiracetam, which is an anticonvulsant, and it made me feel so sleepy, disoriented, irritable, and I developed tics.

I think Aniracetam affects other neurotransmitters other than Muscarinic-Cholinergic transmitter, such as Dopamine-2.

As nicotine initially stimulates Nicotinic-Cholinergic transmitter, then blocks it afterwards ( that's how a cigarette initially stimulates the CNS then relaxes our CNS afterwards ), Piracetam works via Muscarinic-Cholinergic transmitter ( via Acetyl-choline that we get and formed from Choline ).

As Aniracetam affects Dopamine-2, ( that's how antipsychotics like Haloperidol, Aripiprazole, etc. that treats Schizophrenia ), it blocks our movement system, causing movement disorder called Tardive Dyskinesia, as usually seen from people suffering delusions taking antipsychotics.

It becomes clear, that no wonders Aniracetam when taken with Piracetam, causes reaction that affects our movement peripherally, also centrally it blocks the Dopamine-2 in our brain, which could decrease our creativity.

Personally i have never tried Aniracetam.

Share it here anyone who has been taking Aniracetam for a long term. It's very interesting.

[Invariant]

About piracetam with caffeine: from my experience I can say it is quite easy to stop using caffeine while on piracetam if you so desire. BUT, the caffeine becomes much more enjoyable while on piracetam, like the first time you drank a cup of java. It reverses tollerance to a lot of substances.

Edited by Novotropic, 24 October 2009 - 04:13 PM.

[Animal]

Isochroma, your earlier posts resemble my thought process after taking too much adderall and being temporarily manic. maybe bump down the piracetam? How are you going to maintain such a high dose of piracetam for the rest of your life?

I would agree with that assessment, his previous posts indicate thought processes and delusions of grandeur that are highly typical of someone in the grip of elevated hypomania.

Quotes such as "I feel like I'm becoming GOD!", "Now I break ALL the rules and live a golden existence of absolute mental perfection." and "It's like I'm gradually becoming superhuman." actually epitomise the typical manic psyche, it's the type of thing I've seen quoted in psychiatry textbooks.

That said, he seems to have calmed down now.

[rollo]

Isochroma, I have a digital scale and I took a measurement for you so you know how much piracetam you're actually taking.

1 measuring tablespoon is approximately 12.5g.
1 heaping tablespoon is approximately 10g.

I level tablespoon is about 7g...

[nito]

I just bought some from smartpoweders over to the uk, does anyone know how long it would normaly take?

[quarter]

I just bought some from smartpoweders over to the uk, does anyone know how long it would normaly take?

I also live in the UK, I ordered late on saturday the 24th, it was shipped on monday the 26th, and it arrived thursday 29th.

[nito]

wow it has allready arived, that was quick!. So guys let me ask, i now have a 500 mg tub of piracetam from smartpowders. I've noticed that it's only 1/3 third full, is this meant to be correct? The container looks much bigger than the content it seems. Also i didn't get a measurement tool so how would i know how much im taking.
Besides how much is recomended for a 26 year old first time user?

Thanks

[LIB]

wow it has allready arived, that was quick!. So guys let me ask, i now have a 500 mg tub of piracetam from smartpowders. I've noticed that it's only 1/3 third full, is this meant to be correct? The container looks much bigger than the content it seems. Also i didn't get a measurement tool so how would i know how much im taking.
Besides how much is recomended for a 26 year old first time user?

Thanks

I also recently ordered 500 grams from smart powders. Yes, the tub isn't filled all the way to the top.

To be honest it seems like suggested dosing is all over the place. Isochroma takes I believe around 20 grams a day. I'm probably taking 10 grams a day. Some people get better effects with micro doses. Just have to experiment.

Edited by LIB, 30 October 2009 - 05:47 PM.

[nito]

wow it has allready arived, that was quick!. So guys let me ask, i now have a 500 mg tub of piracetam from smartpowders. I've noticed that it's only 1/3 third full, is this meant to be correct? The container looks much bigger than the content it seems. Also i didn't get a measurement tool so how would i know how much im taking.
Besides how much is recomended for a 26 year old first time user?

Thanks

I also recently ordered 500 grams from smart powders. Yes, the tub isn't filled all the way to the top.

To be honest it seems like suggested dosing is all over the place. Isochroma takes I believe around 20 grams a day. I'm probably taking 10 grams a day. Some people get better effects with micro doses. Just have to experiment.

How much is a teaspoon? How many times do you spread those 10 grams over a day? is it three dosages?