450 replies to this topic

[Kingsley]

Hello:

 

Here's my take on some of your numbered questions.

 

1.

Your problem may or may not involve a glutathione deficiency, but is probably more tied to glutamate dysregulation.  NAC actually does two things.  Yes, it increases the production of glutathione, but on top of that, it activates something called the cystine-glutamate antiporter, which basically shuffles glutamate around to parts of the brain where it causes less stimulation.  That is why it is so helpful for OCD, which is associated with overstimulation of the glutamate receptors.

 

2.

I doubt you'll find anything better than NAC.  It is one of the more studied and effective supplements and is right in your wheelhouse.  I'd also make sure you have the basics in place, i.e. a high quality daily multi-vitamin and plenty of magnesium.  Other than that, it's hard to say, since supplements are so hit-or-miss.  A high quality curcumin supplement might help, since curcumin has NMDA-antagonist and anti-inflammatory properties.  However, don't bother unless you are willing to spring for one of the specially formulated bio-available versions, like Longvida curcumin.

 

3.

Don't bother.  NAC will give you all the glutathione you need, and is scientifically proven, whereas supplementing glutathione is iffy at best. 

 

4.

There are plenty of supplements that can supposedly help with libido, and different people swear by different things.  It takes experimentation.  I find zinc helpful.

 

5.

Again, many supplements out there that supposedly help sleep which you can google.  Melatonin is a big one and I have found it very effective.  Other than that, l-theanine maybe? 

 

6.

Here's hoping you don't crash from the hypo-mania.  You need to find a way to sleep and calm the hell down : ). 

 

 

1.
so if i take nac and that helps immensive- i probably have a glutathione defiecy - right?
Does nac. Help so the glutathione gets in my body or brain where it should has to be ? I read something that a reduced gluthione oxidised after 1.6 minutes .. So if i feel good through nac alrwady .. That means also that the gluthione is higher intercellucar?

2.
What else should i consider taking if u read my story? Anything better for me? - im looking for the perfect solutions through doctors and especially through here because what u PEOPLE write is soooo FANTASTIC. I cant thank xou enough !!

3.
S-acetyl-glutathione anyone? Seems to be a high quality product which should be the best form to increase glutathione .. The brand is eumetabol .. German site .. Maybe u guys know anything about s-acetyl-glutathione

So are there any supplements 2 take so i can get away from the dulled emotional condition?

4.
anything to take to help my libido ..
Any suggestions? L-carnitine-got them but only took them 1 time and already have them for a long time? Or a viagra 1 week therapy?

5.
What could i trY taking so i sleep more so i dont get up after 2-3 hours of sleep starting with full energy ...
My hypermania state :
Im quick, focused dont spend a lot of money have neaerly every smyptom what a hympomaniac should have except that i dont spend so much money on studf because
I dont have the money... I can be really energized but if i want to relax i am able to just sit on a sofa and relax so
I can switch

6.
I would like 2 know how many people on earth have a hypomania ... And is this a hypomanie if i dont have any depression episode at all??!???!??
Somewhere i read 1-3 % ? I think on wiki but a hypomania with depression episode ..
Would love 2 know something about this

.Cheers ! And im so looking foward 2
Your answers.. People here THANKS for this godly MASTER-Thread

 

[.Moose.]

Whixh are glutmate enhacer products? You mean nmda-stuff? I googled and a lot of your suggestions seem to enhance the glutamte.. Which is about what u just mentioned ? Am i right? Sorry im not that good in these kinda studf but know already a lot since i hve taken nac

 

kingsley et al (this should be a thing) wrote a lot of good stuff about NMDA and glutamate I think back around page 6. I don't think you can presume a simple glutamate deficiency but if NAC is working so well for you, it sounds like you are at least part way to finding an answer... though I echo Kingsley - take it slow!!

 

Tried nifedepine and it seemed to exacerbate my depression/ADHD-Pi. Not sure what I was expecting. I get really excited about something and feel a little silly after. 

...

ah sorry bro. Though I have a big list of things to try and things tried, and every one ticked off is another one less to try, and another piece in the puzzle 

 

---

 

Am trying a few glutamate/ GABA supps over the next couple of weeks, will report back if anything of use comes up...

[.Moose.]

Kingsley, just checked out your profile and love the fact that you said you relate a lot to schizotypal... Whilst I don't think that I am schizo, there is some interesting reading on how it's negative symptoms can be confused with aspergers and SCT - all of which I can relate to fully. Whilst I don't think that labelling (and mainstream healthcare dare I say it) will fix the issue, it really is focusing my general research into very interesting areas - such as the implication of glutamate breakdown into GABA (through GAB/ glutamic acid(?)) in autism and schizophrenia... 

[Apprentice_Bob]

The insanity goes on. Used baclofen and adderall yesterday. My intentions were pure (stress and schoolwork) but man, my musical acuity and just everything was on like only it can be for those few short days. Not fully normal again yet. It's so strange. Baclofen at low maintenance dose does very little. Increase it for a day and... Unfortunately this is an addictive drug, like gabapentin. My hope is that one day when enough money is in my pocket (like all those other young kids with fancy cars(go figure, grad school doesn't pay well)) I will have an arsenal of drugs, non-cross tolerating, to keep me generally in one mind state.

Sometimes j wonder if all this chasing is good for my mental health. Certainly, it is not. Sometimes I wonder if this is close to schizophrenia. Certainly, it is not. But... Fun? A good life? Certainly, it is not.

[Apprentice_Bob]

Lovers grow confused, friends worry, acquaintances judge. More accurately: lovers grow disdainful, friends turn judge mental, really good friends wonder who you are becoming, and aquaintences tune you out. All when they see who you are is not who you are. When all this is to help you find who you are.

Sorry. I just hate this fucking mad chase. It's truly truly every song there is about love being there one day and gone tomorrow. Makes you feel strongly existential, like any drug will. So happy and then for days and weeks a pointlessness and vanity fills your days.

But, chemically!: baclofen alone leaves me almost too calm and relaxed, with little to contribute. Increase the baclofen to 50 to 75 mg and I begin to get waves of empathy and emotion (normally unusual for me) when doing small things. House of Cards was bringing me to quick years over small trivial things. This goes on. Then suddenly it becomes stimulating. I begin to do better on my research but still I'm just not quite right. Realize you can't sleep anyway, take adderall and go back to the office at 3 am.

A cup or two of coffee throughout the day.

Awake, stimulated, on point and bouncing from place to place until 2 am the next night. Any converasatupn flows. Not quite so manic as a hangtrope, but also the thoughts aren't quite so expressly jumping in your face. The hangtrope makes revelation and realization second nature. Poems nearly flowing in response to normal everyday acts. You might not believe me, the poems might be shit. Quick story. Walked into my apartment after having manically melted some deoderant on the gratings of the heater to make an awesome deoderant statue molding thing. Looked like brilliant shard of blue Quartz. Hangtroped, I walk in, smile, and say to myself "deoderant and heat makes the room smell sweet" lol. Another, was reading a poem by Tennyson, obsessed with it.

It is the little rift within the lute
That by and by will make the music mute
And ever widening slowly silence all

And that sums up our experience. That first break in the music, in our mind state, signals that soon it will be list, replaced by dischord, and afterwards just silence will remain. Anyway, walking around, the line comes to me "the lilt of a love unsung" which is I think similarly rhythmic and the assonance j think is lovely.

But the point! Is that baclofen and adderall elevated my mind state so that I could go anywhere and be recognized purely by the way I acted, observing the world with both attention and style. Went to a jazz bar and tapped the bar fucking tirelessly along with the music. The greTest part! Is that this was naturL, like I could not help but bounce my hands to the beat. And fuck it was so on, sometimes I think this mind state could make prodigies of us all. It's mind boggling oh furiating. Any normal day and I'm inside curled up in because struggling to understand a Culture novel (Banks). Add dopamine and GABA et al. and suddenly every act of life becomes child's play.

Emmotionally.. A song on the radio I've heard a thousand times can cause me to reflect seriously upon myself, but not in that manic way. I can just... fall into it if I so choose. I talk to girls with ease, but admittedly I'm better at pick up when hangtroped. Bac and add let me dazzle and impress, alcoflow (new name for hangtrope) lets me connect in very strong ways.

Last thing: whenever I'm acloflowing, people I meet will always at the end of a convo, stand back and be like: man what are you going to do with your life? Like they can sense the vast potential lying there.

If only they knew that normally, I'm worse off than them all.


Just needed to vent. It's hard being so many different people.



But the point is. Baclofen and adderall helped me feel like I was acloflowing, but not acloglowing.

Okay, most important POINT: hangtrope effect, I propose calling it, or at least this will be my name got it, alcoflowing. But there's also alcoglowing! And alcosowing! Jk, but alcoflow is the energy and quickness, alcoflow is that unearthly heavenly brightness. Bac and add let me flow, but they don't let me glow.

[ThreeKings12341]

Kingsley, ure a cool dude .. Woe thank you really appreciate your great answers!! Thanks

But still questions ^^:

1. whiy glutamate ? Doesn chinese food have loads of that? Why isnt glutamine the keyword?? Ive read that glutamine devolps itself through glutamate? But why is it glutamate i need to go?

2. so from pure encapsules (brand).i got l-glutamine... Was that a waste of money...

3. how many nac could i take most? From out of 1000 people , how many react positivly on nac ? Any studies on that? Im a very lucky person that nac works??

3.5
Any amino acid i can take to get the numb emotinality away?? I can cry and i did a lot 2 day in the morning and havent cried like that in ages .. Drunk yesterday heavily.. Normaly i feel only sadness thru my brain but not wirh heart .. 2day was a bit more hearted... Any clue

4. kingsley... Have u ever heard anything of S-acetyl-glutathione .? Its the best form to increase glutathione (i know its not about glutathione .u said) but it costs200 euros for 180 capsules or so and its called "eumetabol" and frlm germany... Really interesting studf read about that if u havent )

4.5
Any suggestions i should try? For libido?? Just a few please:)

5. kingsley .. Which basics vitmains shal i take?
Ive got folsäure (im from austria dont know exactly what it means kn english .. I think folic acid?

B12
Vit e
Magnesium(can i take it more then one time a day-powder?)
Zink
Selen
Eisen
B6
L-arginin
Omega3
Vitamin c
Milk thistsle (ahhh.. Is that the right combo: nac 3
Tabs of vit c 1 milk thistle and one b6 ??) or anything better to combine with nac?

Might have forgoten 1 2 vitamin names but generaly.. What could u add to the list?

Kingsley- thanks so much ))))) im so curious what u have got to tell me. About this )

Edited by ThreeKings12341, 12 March 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[Kingsley]

. . .

 

Gonna keep this brief--a bit busy lately but wanted to clarify a couple things.

 

I definitely didn't recommend that you supplement glutamate or glutamine.  Based on your description of your symptoms, i.e. obsessive thoughts and hypomania, it sounds like you may have too much activation of the glutamate receptors, not too little.  NAC has been shown effective for obsessive-type symptoms because it helps to dampen overstimulation of glutamate receptors a bit. 

 

Beyond recommending you keep up with the NAC and basic vitamins, there's not much else I can offer, and it would be overly speculative anyway.  I'm no doctor, and not even doctors understand these things, really.  The main thing is that it sounds to me like you are at risk for mental illness (as many of us are), so the important thing is to take care of your brain.  The NAC is probably the best thing you can be taking (I think dosage maxes out at 2 grams daily) as it'll help protect your brain from oxidative stress, which is implicated in the development of psychiatric disorders.  I would think other anti-oxidant supplements might help as well, like high quality curcumin, but nothing is going to be as good as NAC in that department.
 

[Kingsley]

Absolutely.  I agree that latching onto a label can help focus your research, but is not all that helpful otherwise.  Mainstream healthcare has absolutely nothing to offer except a stimulant prescription, which does help, but other than that we're on our own.

 

 

Kingsley, just checked out your profile and love the fact that you said you relate a lot to schizotypal... Whilst I don't think that I am schizo, there is some interesting reading on how it's negative symptoms can be confused with aspergers and SCT - all of which I can relate to fully. Whilst I don't think that labelling (and mainstream healthcare dare I say it) will fix the issue, it really is focusing my general research into very interesting areas - such as the implication of glutamate breakdown into GABA (through GAB/ glutamic acid(?)) in autism and schizophrenia... 

 

[ThreeKings12341]

. . .

Gonna keep this brief--a bit busy lately but wanted to clarify a couple things.

I definitely didn't recommend that you supplement glutamate or glutamine. Based on your description of your symptoms, i.e. obsessive thoughts and hypomania, it sounds like you may have too much activation of the glutamate receptors, not too little. NAC has been shown effective for obsessive-type symptoms because it helps to dampen overstimulation of glutamate receptors a bit.

Beyond recommending you keep up with the NAC and basic vitamins, there's not much else I can offer, and it would be overly speculative anyway. I'm no doctor, and not even doctors understand these things, really. The main thing is that it sounds to me like you are at risk for mental illness (as many of us are), so the important thing is to take care of your brain. The NAC is probably the best thing you can be taking (I think dosage maxes out at 2 grams daily) as it'll help protect your brain from oxidative stress, which is implicated in the development of psychiatric disorders. I would think other anti-oxidant supplements might help as well, like high quality curcumin, but nothing is going to be as good as NAC in that department.

I have now kind
Of a hypomania but i dont have obsessive thoughts .. But im like more obsessed of being perfect with everything .. But i dont have any devils circle thinking since i take nac .. I think really clear but want to achieve a lot in the day since im cured from depression after 8 years of depression..

About curcumin ..i read several times it doesnt cope with nac... ?!
If i would try that one out ...

Im having a big bloodtest next week so im curious what comes out ...
For now i know my seretonin level is really low
. And vit d3 b 12 also :/
I dont get that .. I dont feel any bad at all ... I mean i dont feel like i won in the lottery (bcause of hypomania) but overall i feel much better then before .. And if these values get better .. Can i fly then :D?


And white blood cell are crap and dhae 2 :/

Hmm well see but maybe u got answers about the curcumin thing ...

Nac and milk thistle?? Heard also its not that good

[ThreeKings12341]

Kingsley..
I never felt hypomanic until the point i took nac .. Only felt hypomanic the day after excessive alk drinking...
Before i took nac i was really slow in thinking and reallly lethargic.. So now i take nac , km hypomanic.. And no sign of obsessive thinking at all..

This really means 2 much glutamine then?? Hmm

And mental illness like what? Psychosys ..? Shizo?
Depression? (had that..) - only want to know if u mean this

Edited by ThreeKings12341, 14 March 2016 - 08:49 PM.

[Kingsley]

Kingsley..
I never felt hypomanic until the point i took nac .. Only felt hypomanic the day after excessive alk drinking...
Before i took nac i was really slow in thinking and reallly lethargic.. So now i take nac , km hypomanic.. And no sign of obsessive thinking at all..

This really means 2 much glutamine then?? Hmm

And mental illness like what? Psychosys ..? Shizo?
Depression? (had that..) - only want to know if u mean this

 

Hmm, didn't realize you didn't feel hypomanic until you started the NAC.  That is interesting, and the opposite of what I would expect. 

 

I don't know whether your symptoms mean that you have too much glutamate or glutamine or not, but it is probably not that simple.  Some of your symptoms suggest that you may have overstimulation of the glutamate receptors for some reason or another, but this is just speculation based on studies I have read that have associated obsessive thinking and hypomania with glutamate over-activation.  However, very little is actually known about the causes of these symptoms.

 

As for my comment that you may be at risk for mental illness, again, this is speculation, but is based on your description of your symptoms.  With your descriptions of the ups and downs you have experienced I would think that bipolar might be a risk, but many mental illnesses share risk factors (i.e. bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, etc.).  Doesn't mean you'll get it, but it's worth taking extra care of yourself.  I'm in the same boat, as I'm sure I'm at risk for some things based on family history and my symptoms.
 

[ThreeKings12341]

Hmm this case is difficult then , it if seems that this kind of constelation is not common ...

Like ive said i have a 1000 euro blood test going on this or next week so ill keep us here informed

Thanks kingsley ...

[ThreeKings12341]

If i take 2-3 times 500 mg nac. does that mean i need 6-9 500 mg vitamin c capsules? I read somewhere that i have to take 3 times the amount of nac to prevent specific homo..stones or somewthjng ...
Is this true? Or is that too much then 6-9 500 mg vit c capsules?

[ThreeKings12341]

Important question:

I experience many times when i drink, that i dont really feel seretonin or something..
It actualy
Males me more emotionaly numb , but if i drink reaaally a lot , the next day
I dont feel emotionally
Numb. I can cry. I can laugh .. I have all day great mood but i dont suffer
From emotional dullness anymore for the whole day after excessive drinking

Any clue what is wrong with my brain?
Ive had a normal blood test where they measured
Seretonin level which was
Low but the doctor said that resulat isnt
That much meaningful since hes waiting for the blood test where i habe to pay a lot of money to test my proper seretonin levels..

But does it probably come from low seretonin levels or does it have to do with gaba, glutamin, amino acid defieacy or something???

Background storY: 8 years feeling of depression and tiredness and compulsive thinking, and since
Ive taken n-acetyl-cystine (NAC) i think more positive and more energy but still emotionaly kinda dull

[PalmAnita]

Ive had a normal blood test where they measured
Seretonin level which was
Low but the doctor said that resulat isnt
That much meaningful since hes waiting for the blood test where i habe to pay a lot of money to test my proper seretonin levels..

 

Still wonder how these recently rising blood tests for neurochemicals should work - we have this blood-brain-barrier that serotonin etc. can't cross (the reason why you have to take 5-HTP instead of serotonin, or L-Dopa for dopamine) and while one has peripheral serotonin too (that's where the term sero - tonin comes from, it does there things with vasoconstriction/dilation or whatever) this does absolutely nothing for mood and - afaik - peripheral levels and brain levels aren't required to have any constant ratio as the brain's serotonin gets synthed directly in the brain from 5-HTP. You could measure breakdown products, as are in some studies, but again this isn't selective for the brain. One would have to take brain liquor for an exact measure - or am I wrong?

 

Bananas for example contain a decent amount of serotonin. Yet you can eat a kilo of them without noticing any mental changes, but for sure you'd have a temporary increase in peripheral serotonin in the blood,  don't know how quick the MAO-A will degrade it but depending on the amount this still takes some time.

 

Edit: In my experience, NAC can also make one a bit tired, or dull - it can also reduce overall glutamate activity (probably, there are conflicting things being said and would have to read up again to be completely sure, but it feels like that at least). Maybe an AMPAkine like unifiram might help you?

Edited by dopamimetiq, 29 March 2016 - 10:07 AM.

[Kingsley]

Important question:

I experience many times when i drink, that i dont really feel seretonin or something..
It actualy
Males me more emotionaly numb , but if i drink reaaally a lot , the next day
I dont feel emotionally
Numb. I can cry. I can laugh .. I have all day great mood but i dont suffer
From emotional dullness anymore for the whole day after excessive drinking

Any clue what is wrong with my brain?
Ive had a normal blood test where they measured
Seretonin level which was
Low but the doctor said that resulat isnt
That much meaningful since hes waiting for the blood test where i habe to pay a lot of money to test my proper seretonin levels..

But does it probably come from low seretonin levels or does it have to do with gaba, glutamin, amino acid defieacy or something???

Background storY: 8 years feeling of depression and tiredness and compulsive thinking, and since
Ive taken n-acetyl-cystine (NAC) i think more positive and more energy but still emotionaly kinda dull

 

We've talked about the hangover effect quite a bit on this thread and there isn't a clear answer as to why it affects some positively as you describe.  I think it likely has to do with a NMDA receptor rebound effect.  Alcohol is an NMDA antagonist.  Antagonists typically cause a receptor system to up-regulate to compensate.  This is often a slow process but in the case of alcohol, studies have shown an acute rebound effect--NMDA receptor activity can be temporarily up-regulated after washout of a single large dose of alcohol.  The fact that you benefit from NAC also suggests that you may have some issue with your NMDA receptors.

 

The problem is, it's not really clear what it means to have an "NMDA receptor issue."  It's a very complex system and not well understood.  I have read that low-level brain inflammation can cause dysfunction of the NMDA receptor, so you could experiment with anti-inflammatories.  A quick experiment may be to take a couple of ibuprofen and see if you notice a benefit.  Other than that, it's hard to recommend a course of action except to maybe experiment with supplements that target the NMDA receptor.  NAC is the big one, along with sarcosine and pregnenolone.  Other options include direct agonists, which are typically less consistent and often end up as dead ends.  These would include glycine, glutamine, d-serine, etc.   
 

[Kingsley]

 

Still wonder how these recently rising blood tests for neurochemicals should work - we have this blood-brain-barrier that serotonin etc. can't cross (the reason why you have to take 5-HTP instead of serotonin, or L-Dopa for dopamine) and while one has peripheral serotonin too (that's where the term sero - tonin comes from, it does there things with vasoconstriction/dilation or whatever) this does absolutely nothing for mood and - afaik - peripheral levels and brain levels aren't required to have any constant ratio as the brain's serotonin gets synthed directly in the brain from 5-HTP. You could measure breakdown products, as are in some studies, but again this isn't selective for the brain. One would have to take brain liquor for an exact measure - or am I wrong?

 

Bananas for example contain a decent amount of serotonin. Yet you can eat a kilo of them without noticing any mental changes, but for sure you'd have a temporary increase in peripheral serotonin in the blood,  don't know how quick the MAO-A will degrade it but depending on the amount this still takes some time.

 

Edit: In my experience, NAC can also make one a bit tired, or dull - it can also reduce overall glutamate activity (probably, there are conflicting things being said and would have to read up again to be completely sure, but it feels like that at least). Maybe an AMPAkine like unifiram might help you?

 

 

I'm with you.  I don't think neurotransmitter tests are considered reliable by any credible authority, though I'd be interested to hear a reasoned explanation of their reliability.

 

I find the same thing about NAC; it's a double-edged sword.  On the one hand, it can boost NMDA-receptor activity via the antioxidant action of glutathione.  That is, NMDA-receptor activity is shut down to some degree by oxidative stress via the redox site of the NMDA-receptor and is highly sensitive to reduced glutathione levels.  On the other hand, the cystine from NAC activates the glutamate-cystine antiporter which, long story short, results in reduced glutamate activity.  Very good supplement though for those who happen to benefit from it, me included.

[reveance]

Man it is awesome to find this thread, I've been having similar experiences. Thank you for starting this and congrats for figuring this out for yourself!

 

For me this phenomenon only happens if I had enough to drink the night before and finish it with lots of water so I don't wake up dehydrated. I normally am pretty shy and don't seek out social situations particularly. I mean, I don't avoid them but I am usually worried about what to do and what to say, which makes things even worse. When I am in this hungover state, I'm much happier ... able to look random people in the eye and smile ... no worries about nothing. Everything runs smooth and the processes that I usually worry about happen automatically making me feel much more in the moment and happy. It's hard to explain though as there's so much more to it...

 

The thing that I'm trying to figure out is if it is actually dopamine related and the same issue as Chadwick. On the one hand I would agree with the feeling he mentioned in his opening post but what I don't get is this: dopamine increases your motivation to do things, so lack of dopamine decreases your drive to do anything, yet, Chadwick invested an enormous amount of time into figuring out what the problem was and I think you need a lot of motivation for that. I am very much a like in that way though. Once I find something that I really want to do or understand, I can't stop until I can do it or understand it. Also I've been a night person (trouble going to sleep) for pretty much all my life, saw that someone else mentioned that somewhere else (reddit?).

 

I read this article yesterday: http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/bh4.php. It mentions a few symptoms which I feel are pretty accurate on me...

 

So happy as I was to have found this, I wanted to try out Chadwick's solution to see if it would help me, so I bought some 5-MTHF as Quatrefolic. The stuff had 800mcg of 5-MTHF, 1.5mg of P5P and 2.5mcg of methylcobalamine per dose. I took a 1/3th of a dose and felt a bit drowsy but relaxed in about half an hour. This quickly turned into tiredness and after taking another 1/3th dose after a few hours it made so tired I went to bed early. Weird thing is that I feel like I barely slept, or slept extremely light. Could be due to the fact that I woke up in the afternoon that day so I probably wasn't physically tired yet. Anyways I can't say that the 5-MTHF did anything for me so far...maybe I've got to take it with some hydroxocobalamine like Chadwick suggested...I'll receive some in a few days. I'll do some more testing with the 5-MTHF and other stuff I'll get in a few days and update if I find anything. Reaction to 5-MTHF wasn't exactly good so far (but it wasn't isolated ... as it also had the P5P) and I know I had problems with somewhat high dosages of pyridoxine in ZMA in the past (B6 toxicity, blood results were more than 5 times over the max value). Maybe in the future I'll have money to do those 23andme test, but for now I'll have to see if I have some reactions on low dosages etc. Is there actually anyone else besides Chadwick who had success regarding this, or had a 23andme test done?

 

Some other test results that may be worth mentioning:

- One of 3 blood tests done had a slightly elevated TSH

- My total testosterone (saw some curiosity towards this one by a some people) was normal 847ng/dL. My SHBG was pretty high though with 50nmol/l (ref. 20-55nmol/l). Other values of that test were normal; estradiol (0.06nmol/l); LH 5 U/L; FSH 2.5 U/L.

[Helllllo]

I'm happy we're all in this together. Haven't come close but there's a light somewhere.

[Apprentice_Bob]

Hopefully none of us becomes deathly ill before a cure is found. That's how I see it happening for most. 

[Helllllo]

It's a scary thought. I tried gabapentin from 400 to 1000 mg and it just made me really woozy. Not quite sure a calcium channel blockers an adequate tool for me unfortunately. I just found this article http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/25621792/ about the lack of nitric oxide and it's correlation with add type symptoms. Could lack of nitric oxide mean that we have a lack of cerebral blood flow? Could that extreme vasoconstriction be caused by something else? I know that ethanol at high doses opens up our blood vessels. Just curious to know other people's opinions. Could we have a genetic defect influenceing this.

I'm in Ritalin at the moment and it's definitely helping with productivity but it's helping about 10% of my overall problem. Clearly My and many of our problems go beyond just dopamine. I feel like I'm in a constant flu like state. No interest in talking to people, constant fatigue. Stres makes things worse. I'm mentally and physically exhausted after a shift of work. Just want to stay in bed.

Hangover = zest for life. Heaps of physical and mental energy.

Also,
Has anyone tried modafinil?

[Chadwick]

So happy as I was to have found this, I wanted to try out Chadwick's solution to see if it would help me, so I bought some 5-MTHF as Quatrefolic. The stuff had 800mcg of 5-MTHF, 1.5mg of P5P and 2.5mcg of methylcobalamine per dose. I took a 1/3th of a dose and felt a bit drowsy but relaxed in about half an hour. This quickly turned into tiredness and after taking another 1/3th dose after a few hours it made so tired I went to bed early. Weird thing is that I feel like I barely slept, or slept extremely light. Could be due to the fact that I woke up in the afternoon that day so I probably wasn't physically tired yet. 

 

I keep seeing people using 5-MTHF and methyl-B12 to recreate the hangover effect, but this is not what I'm recommending at all. I keep telling people to not use methyl-B12 but it doesn't seem to stick. What I'm recommending is that you use 5-MTHF in combination with hydroxo-B12, not methyl-B12. 

 

Methyl-B12 will increase methylation. Hydroxo-B12 will allow the folate to be used for BH4 regeneration instead of methylation. During a hangover you get reduced methylation - if you use methyl-B12 you get the exact opposite effect.

 

So - use hydroxy-B12 if you want to recreate the hangover effect, NOT methyl-B12.

[reveance]

 

So happy as I was to have found this, I wanted to try out Chadwick's solution to see if it would help me, so I bought some 5-MTHF as Quatrefolic. The stuff had 800mcg of 5-MTHF, 1.5mg of P5P and 2.5mcg of methylcobalamine per dose. I took a 1/3th of a dose and felt a bit drowsy but relaxed in about half an hour. This quickly turned into tiredness and after taking another 1/3th dose after a few hours it made so tired I went to bed early. Weird thing is that I feel like I barely slept, or slept extremely light. Could be due to the fact that I woke up in the afternoon that day so I probably wasn't physically tired yet. 

 

I keep seeing people using 5-MTHF and methyl-B12 to recreate the hangover effect, but this is not what I'm recommending at all. I keep telling people to not use methyl-B12 but it doesn't seem to stick. What I'm recommending is that you use 5-MTHF in combination with hydroxo-B12, not methyl-B12. 

 

Methyl-B12 will increase methylation. Hydroxo-B12 will allow the folate to be used for BH4 regeneration instead of methylation. During a hangover you get reduced methylation - if you use methyl-B12 you get the exact opposite effect.

 

So - use hydroxy-B12 if you want to recreate the hangover effect, NOT methyl-B12.

 

 

Thanks for your reply, I know you said to take Hydroxo-B12 which I was waiting for at the time. But the dose of methylcobalamine was included in the formula of Quatrefolic I had bought - since they didn't have anything else. But I figured it was such a low amount (a serving of yoghurt would approx. give you the same amount) that it wouldn't do much... Anyways it didn't do much for me after the first time taking them both. Next time I'll get pure 5-MTHF in Metafolin form and see if it works better. I saw a few people on other forums responding bad to this form aswell, while they didn't on metafolin.

[NeuroNootropic]

 

So happy as I was to have found this, I wanted to try out Chadwick's solution to see if it would help me, so I bought some 5-MTHF as Quatrefolic. The stuff had 800mcg of 5-MTHF, 1.5mg of P5P and 2.5mcg of methylcobalamine per dose. I took a 1/3th of a dose and felt a bit drowsy but relaxed in about half an hour. This quickly turned into tiredness and after taking another 1/3th dose after a few hours it made so tired I went to bed early. Weird thing is that I feel like I barely slept, or slept extremely light. Could be due to the fact that I woke up in the afternoon that day so I probably wasn't physically tired yet. 

 

I keep seeing people using 5-MTHF and methyl-B12 to recreate the hangover effect, but this is not what I'm recommending at all. I keep telling people to not use methyl-B12 but it doesn't seem to stick. What I'm recommending is that you use 5-MTHF in combination with hydroxo-B12, not methyl-B12. 

 

Methyl-B12 will increase methylation. Hydroxo-B12 will allow the folate to be used for BH4 regeneration instead of methylation. During a hangover you get reduced methylation - if you use methyl-B12 you get the exact opposite effect.

 

So - use hydroxy-B12 if you want to recreate the hangover effect, NOT methyl-B12.

 

 

I have found methyl-b12 to actually worsen my cognition and anhedonia if I haven't been taking methylfolate on a regular basis. It seems that a little bit of methyl-b12 is required for methylfolate to continue working, but I doubt it has anything to do with methylation. In fact, if I take too much methyl-b12 all my symptoms worsen. I'm guessing I don't need an increase in methylation. I think increased methylation also increases COMT, no? If this is true it could explain why I react so poorly to methyl-b12 as I'm sure I have high COMT activity.

 

Indeed, I think increased BH4 is the mechanism behind which I benefit from methylfolate. I've looked for hydroxy-b12 everywhere but at my local pharmacies it's only available in injection form. On iHerb there's only one brand that carries it and it's quite expensive at $20 for 60 tablets.

 

Right now, I only take 1000 mcg of methyl-b12 sublingually on Sundays. Anymore and it worsens my symptoms. How frequently would I have to take hydroxy b12? If it's also on a weekly basis then the price won't be an issue.

[Helllllo]

Is there anything you've added to the regimen as of late? Is it still hydroxyb12 1000mg and 200mg methyl folate every 6 hours? Also, should the hydroxyb12 be taken during the day or at night? Orally or sublingual? Thanks.

[Apprentice_Bob]

This life isn't easy. I had a run, these past few months, using the hangtropic state (not by alcohol, by combos of vyvanse & gabapentin, or vyvanse & baclofen, or either alone, not vyvanse alone (just increases productivity)). And it's just a strange life. Strange world. Built up my reputation for some odd reason. Now, I plan on being myself for the next year or two, and oh what a hole I have dug for myself. Lol. Or a mountain I can't ascend. 

 

it's just amazing how different you can become during that state. It's hard to sit back and find your sober self in the high self. It reminds me of a film by british IT Club Richard Ayoade called... "the double", also a novel by Dostoyevsky. 

 

anyway, sometimes sober life comes together just right and we're allowed happy nights. But it is hard. 

 

Sarcosine has not been working. I will rely now on my vyvanse prescription to shovel information into my head. Hangtrope days will be saved for getting it out of there. I estimate, after a year break, hangtroping a few times each month. Who knows. LIfe's too short to be in constant funk, specially when there's a way out (if only temporarily). 

 

If anyone is hangtroping, or has a really good hangtrope story, I'd love to hear it. I've got plenttty. Just, not really in the mood to discuss them. Were i hangtroped, my memory would be rich with the stories, right now i'm just worried about whether my neighbor will give me a cigarette! 

 

EDIT: Also, today marks two month since my last hangover or significant consumption of alcohol! yay! Even if we can't fix ourselves sober, we all have probably a hundred or more hangtropes left in us. 

 

Don't ever forget that. No matter how down you may be, you have 100 happy perfect productive days left. 100 more times, you can be the most intelligent, empathetic man in the room. Remember this! Let it drive you! 

Edited by Apprentice_Bob, 19 April 2016 - 10:33 PM.

[Golodnyy]

Hi everybody! 

My 2 cents about increasing energy levels during hangovers:

CHOLESTEROL LEVELS.

"True" alcoholics have none of atherosclerotic plaques, and blood cholesterol level is low! May be alcohol is a kind of self-medication for people with bad-diet.

In my own experience, methylfolate didn't give me extra energy levels, but FLAX SEED OIL (great cholesterol reducer) gives a CERTAIN boost.

Any ideas ?

[.Moose.]

Hi everybody! 

My 2 cents about increasing energy levels during hangovers:

CHOLESTEROL LEVELS.

"True" alcoholics have none of atherosclerotic plaques, and blood cholesterol level is low! May be alcohol is a kind of self-medication for people with bad-diet.

In my own experience, methylfolate didn't give me extra energy levels, but FLAX SEED OIL (great cholesterol reducer) gives a CERTAIN boost.

Any ideas ?

 

Hey

 

This might give you some insight http://forums.phoeni...ents.18369/  ifyou scroll back through the pages  here, you'll find a bit written about NAG and the benefits derived from that as well...

 

Not sure about cholesterol, I will look into it

[bobbycan]

I'd like to give BH4 a 10-d trial (50mg).

 

Given my lack of knowledge, I thought it might be wise to ask the following: 

 

Would it be safe to dilute the 50mg in a distilled water & ascorbic acid solution, chilled at 4 °C?

 

Even if the container gets opened two times a day for ten days?

[christianme]

Ok, so I've been in this "state" while in college.  Oh how the sunday hangovers allowed me to be so productive.  I Identify with this thread so much...Anyways, tetrahydrobiopterin is a major player in this.   I just came here to say you need to try Liposomal Vitamin C + your flavanoid of choice.  The Liposomal vitamin c stimulates BH4 creation somehow through hydrogen peroxide (isn't hydrogen peroxide bad).  The flavanoid is necessary to ''couple" the endothelial system and promote enos.  Without enough BH4 you don't produce enough enos, and create inos and peroxynitrite instead. 

ANYways you guys need to definitely try liposomal vitamin c with your flavanoid of choice. Let me know what you think.Cheers