450 replies to this topic

[Helllllo]

Chadwick, I ve tried your protocol methylfolate plus hydroxo b12 but so far no change only my OCD get worst plus anxiety pop up any adwise on this ? I m kind off running out of bullets. I ve also tried NAC and NAG plus Inositol but this seems have even worst effect on me.

Yop and sorry for my bad English.

Bob21, methyl folate didn't take any effect until I opened up my transulfuration pathway with molybdenum and manganese. Now i seem to be feeling quite a lot. Mostly negatives which is apparently quite common during a long methylation block. Insomnia, a bit of head pressure, fatIgue. I'm on a fairly low dose too. 200mg. Hopefully will be riding chadwicks wave soon though.

[jack black]

Chadwick, I ve tried your protocol methylfolate plus hydroxo b12 but so far no change only my OCD get worst plus anxiety pop up any adwise on this ? I m kind off running out of bullets. I ve also tried NAC and NAG plus Inositol but this seems have even worst effect on me.

 

Yop and sorry for my bad English.

 

maybe my understanding is too simplistic, but if more methylation is harmful, maybe you are a hypermethylator already (is there such a thing?)?

If inositol feels worse, maybe you have not enough serotonin. Have you tried SSRI or 5HTP or similar?
 

[Golodnyy]

 

Chadwick, I ve tried your protocol methylfolate plus hydroxo b12 but so far no change only my OCD get worst plus anxiety pop up any adwise on this ? I m kind off running out of bullets. I ve also tried NAC and NAG plus Inositol but this seems have even worst effect on me.

Yop and sorry for my bad English.

Bob21, methyl folate didn't take any effect until I opened up my transulfuration pathway with molybdenum and manganese. Now i seem to be feeling quite a lot. Mostly negatives which is apparently quite common during a long methylation block. Insomnia, a bit of head pressure, fatIgue. I'm on a fairly low dose too. 200mg. Hopefully will be riding chadwicks wave soon though.

 

What doses of molybdenum and manganese?

Do you have MTFHR or CBS mutation?

[tronatula2]

I take the uridine orally twice a day, and folic acid once a day. I don't know yet how much folate or folic acid is needed - I'm still experimenting around. Here the purpose of the folate is to prevent an induced deficiency, and I haven't come across any data on how much extra folate the body needs when supplementing uridine.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Chadwick, what are you taking currently?

 

Today I took 1mg hydroxo B12 sublingually and 2.4mg methylfolate (divided into three times) and felt great.

[tronatula2]

deleted, duplicated post 

 

Edited by tronatula2, 03 November 2016 - 06:45 PM.

[Lufega]

B12 and folate alone didn't do much for me.  However, adding 500 mg L-methionine made all the difference.  I was taking b12 as either hydroxy of methylb12 and folinic acid or methylfolate.  For the first time, I found a combination that finally eliminated my fatigue.  It's been a great couple of months and I've been able to think clearer.

 

Surprisingly, this combo also eliminated my libido.  Completely.  It's dead.  It should have had the opposite effect?   I have high COMT activity and I suspect I increased methylation too much much, adding more COMT activity and decreasing dopamine even further.

 

Anyone have any ideas? 

[Golodnyy]

Lufega

what about ur Manganese protocol ? Does it still work?

[Lufega]

Lufega

what about ur Manganese protocol ? Does it still work?

 

Can you link that post again?  I haven't taken it in a while but I've recently revisited it. 
 

[normalizing]

hi i wanna ask instead of taking methyfolate, did you guys try the folinic acid version for which i know is prescription only so probably not many have tried it. but i did read this on it; Research has suggested a role for folinic acid in the treatment of anxiety and depression in people with a variant of the MTHFR gene.^[11]

 

http://www.adelaiden...fca0f1ee043212c

[Golodnyy]

 

Lufega

what about ur Manganese protocol ? Does it still work?

 

Can you link that post again?  I haven't taken it in a while but I've recently revisited it. 
 

 

 

http://www.socialanx...solution-70691/

I meant does manganese alone not enough for social anxiety, anhedonia, fatique?

Did tolerance developed ?

hi i wanna ask instead of taking methyfolate, did you guys try the folinic acid version for which i know is prescription only so probably not many have tried it. but i did read this on it; Research has suggested a role for folinic acid in the treatment of anxiety and depression in people with a variant of the MTHFR gene.^[11]

 

http://www.adelaiden...fca0f1ee043212c

http://www.iherb.com...20-Tablets/7735

 

No prescription need

[st1305]

Hello,

I have CFS and dopamine deficiency and I have been reading around a lot. Not pretending to know or understand anything all too well, but I am looking for answers, just like most of you. So, I am noticing a few things and here it goes:

 

I also feel well with the hangover effect. I am calm, clear-headed, motivated and with great libido. As you guys wrote it is increased NMDA activity, which also causes increased Testosterone. D-Aspartic Acid is strong NMDA agonist and is used as T booster. The effects of T alone are incredible at least mentally. I definitely feel better when something triggers my T. 

 

I also think problems point to NMDA underactivity, caused by glutathione depletion. Here is a study that confirms glutathione is NMDA receptor agonist:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16787569

 

One way or another we are using up our glutathione and than energy and mental function declines. Here is a great article on Glutathione:

 

http://www.tuberose....xification.html

 

Another thread about a guy with CFS explaining about imbalance of Phase 1 and 2 detoxification and how he got better:

 

http://forums.phoeni...er-issue.18776/

 

I am seeing underactive Phase 2 or overactive Phase 1 is what depletes glutathione. I am feeling terrible bad with everything that boosts Phase 1: smoking (also activates GAD67, possibly lowering glutamate), alcohol (I get liver pain everytime. I think my glutathione is tanked), vitamin C, magnesium, zinc, high protein diet.

 

D-limonene, milk thistle, garlic and  broccoli seem to be helping a bit. I think L-glutamine was not bad.

 

Testing Jarrow B-right these days. Seems to make me calm for a few hours but gives me oily skin, acne and 2/day more than likely kill my dopamine (dono why?) and I was sweating pretty bad last night.  Maybe too much Niacin increases Serotonin too much.

 

I am not tolerating Zinc, so I am thinking I should try NAC, L-glutamine and B6 (p-5-P) ?

 

 

[ThreeKings12341]

Male 25

 

Symptoms

 

main symptom: EMOTIONAL BLUNTING :( - ill write more to that after a few symptoms.

 

ocb: (thinking, but got better a bit, but i am  a perfectionist in some ways. in schooldays my bag had to be paralled next to my chair, but i dont have that a´nymore - )

 

body dysmophobic disorder ( developed when i was 16, comments from school mates in combination with my obsessive thinking developed bdd, since then i had nosesurgerys, crying a lot); wearing glasses in public makes my bdd completely away

 

anhedonia: the only times i feel pleasure  is reading about ios- gaming news, or pc games , or playing them but everything else in life is extremly low in feeling pleasure. - if i do - its very dulled

 

when i was 6 , parents broke up and i developed ocb, and cried a lot, with 16 i developed body dymophic disorder and cried also again a lot  - so that maybe shut down my emotions?, also i developed eppstein bar virus - pfeifisches drüsen fieber with 16.....

 

EMOTIONAIL BLUNTING:  when i cry its only from my head (tears) without emotions, only time i cried with emotios for 7 minutes was when i  realised my cat died and it had gone for a loooooong sleep (was watching how doc gave injection). i can laugh reaaaally lot but its not combined with any activity in my chest or stomach.. no emotions . agressive i can get very easy in public if somebody does me wrong.

i cannot feel love at all (had several girlfirends, and didnt feel it), family i dont feel it , 2 no one....

when reading about new cure solutions i can feel euphoria and exitement

 

since im 6 i byte off my finger skin and they bleed, but mostly dont hurt.. but not always bleed, i just eat the top skin if possible. --> Dermatophagia

 

i cant concentrate- watching movies , series, i drift oof eaaaasily, i can only listen if somethings really interesting, with people the same

 

no sexdrive , also my errections are only like 60 -80%

 

middle depression.

 

 

 

diet

glutenfree

fructosefree

no alcohol for 9 moths

no nicotine for 9 motnhs

no porn since doing it excessivly for dopamine feelings

 

 

drugs:

 

nicotine:

age 21-24

gave me dopamine boost "kinda euphoric, or happy feelings which i felt  (not dulled) when taking puffs- in the morning even better, made me less anhedonic in someways

 

nicotine + nac age:24

VERY EUPHORIC , i felt like cured, couldnt feel love or something, but reallly euphoric and antidepressant feeling, hypomania.....

 

 

alcohol

during drinking obsessive thinking, depressive, but  THE DAY AFTER BINGEDRINKING, i felt NEARLY ALL EMOTIONS, every time i binge drinked i felt emotions the day after

 

 

weed(over 150 times i smoked in life)

paranoia and obsessive thinking and  , but still kept doing it since laughing felt nice if i laughed, but emotional deatachment was evern worse when not laughing but when i could feel emtions while laghing

 

 

magic mushrooms(tdid it  wice)

WOW very positive vibes, chiildhood emotions, devitiely more emotionns

 

 

venlaflaxine

zombie like, more depressed

 

 

abilify

dont know

 

 

ciplralex

zombie like state, more depressed

 

 

gladem

zombie like sate, more depressed

 

 

deanxit

didnt notice anything

 

 

pregabalin

sleeping better, emotins still dulled

 

 

omega 3

more positive, i feel more well in my living room  but still dulled emotions

 

 

paroxat

lethargic, zombie state, compulsive thinking was even worse with this drug; depressed

 

 

tritico

lethargic

 

 

5htp

made symptoms also worse

 

 

 

coffee

more energy, and bit euphoric

 

 

black tee

same

 

 

sport

i sprint every day now for 4 months, i feel more easyness after sport but not really more emotions, just more positive..

 

 

 

sicne 9 months i stoped alchol, coffee, nictone,  eat veeeery healthy (my gut docotor helps me for that) - i know there is an gut - brain axis...

 

 

 

this week my doc want s to ´ty wellbutrin one me, and im thinking of neurofeedback? is that any good for emotional blunting?

 

PLS PEOPLE, i neeeeeed your help, i need 2 see the day when i can spread out lvoe too the whorld like i just 2, and want to feel deep emotions hug my family, and be very glad that i have them, and friends

 

 

pls :(

 

[kelsoceles]

hello! let me first apologize for my lazy nature(compelled to believe caused by my symptoms) and probably long af post. ive been on an afterglow for a couple of hours since last night and i was unable to sleep because i actually took an adderal(although i otherwise do not experience trouble falling/staying asleep). i searched for and found this forum to satiate my curiosity and am glad to see i am not alone. it is disheartening how many of my friends and family attribute my drinking habits to depression, even though i would like to convince them i only feel my symptoms occasionally and sporadically.
i experience close to the afterglow often sober but the high from my actual hangovers has me almost manic, and this is when my motivation and curiosity/genuine interest peek. i am struggling with symptoms of •social anxiety, •obsessive thought patterns, •occasional existential dread/depression, •poor motivation/aspiration, •cognitive fog and •concentration issues, •emotional sensitivity, most prominently •frequent irritation, but also •sleep apnea, and •mucus/sinus issues.
i am strongly interested in holistic solutions. i have a decent diet. i am interested in experimenting with NAC and/or NAG. perhaps i can take it occasionally when im feeling in a depressive funk or suffering from prominent sleep apnea and mucas problems? im not sure if this is the solution i am understanding it to be from multiple sources ive read. im hoping, using one sporadically instead of using it in a daily regimen, i can avoid developing a tollerance? i would like to continue my enjoyment of drinking as well because i do not believe it is an addiction. i am responsible/moderate, and find the effects of marijuana to most frquently worsen my anxiety, depression, and genuine expression of interest or emotions.
my boyfriend is actually the one perscribed adderal because of his ADD. he has worse anxiety compared to mine, as he suffers from anxiety attacks that he describes with difficulty breathing and rushing/tense feelings in his chest. he drinks frequently as well, smokes cigs, takes a LOT of ibuprofen for aches and pains due to raised tollerance over years, has some digestive sensitivities, frequent irritability/impulsive behavior, bipolar disorder, and acid reflux.

basically what i am posting to ask is if anyone would suggesting trying either NAC or NAG? which for what reasoning? what might be a good dosage to try? and possibly how frequently to take it until the symptoms we wish to treat seem to subside(hoping the symptoms do not persist intollerably for longer than a few days at most)?
if we experiment with this and we do not experience results metabolizing from a circumstantial standpoint, i will ultimatly query my doctor about blood tests and mutations. thought i cant say the same for my bf, as he is very stubborn when i comes to seeking medical/psychological attention... :T

thank you! and again, i apologize if i am lazy in my post or questiong. ive read through this thread from the beginning, although skimming at some points. all the biochemistry talk, some i do not believe to apply in my situation, is making me feel incredibly stupid and my brain ache. hehe

[kelsoceles]

id also like to note that my cumulative thought process of trying to use general intelligence took me over an hour to compose that post. :c

[iseethelight]

I have the same issue but in my case, I feel great while the alcohol is in my system, not during the hangover. 

I've come to the realization that dopamine  is also my issue. 

I've tried the following stacks so far:

NADH + tyrosine = I get motivated to cook and clean my apartment on this stack, verbal fluency increases, lowers anxiety, but I get anhedonia and lack of interest in pleasurable activities..

Tyrosine + gaba =  Same as above without the motivation to cook and clean.

gaba = anxiety, fatigue , cold chills, low self esteem.

Phenylalanine = complete lack of motivation and libido, major anhedonia.

Mucuna puriens = same as phenylalanine x 2 the effects.

methylfolate = complete lack of motivation, zero libido, anhedonia

mb12 = motivated, but anxious, depressed, worse memory

hydroxob12: slight energy boost, then sleepiness.

cyanocobalamin = big energy boost, overstimulated, stomach knots, nervous..

Tryptophan = anxiety, seeks validation, low motivation.

5htp = makes me too sick to worry about anything else.

Choline = makes me depressed, angry

zinc /b6 = worsens my short and long term memory considerably, makes me confrontational..

 

I have tried a bunch of other stacks that I won't bother listing as they made much worse or had no effects..

 

I'm trying methylfolate and hydroxo together and will report back. I've got uridine and fish oil on the way.

Edited by iseethelight, 29 January 2017 - 08:18 PM.

[iseethelight]

B12 and folate alone didn't do much for me.  However, adding 500 mg L-methionine made all the difference.  I was taking b12 as either hydroxy of methylb12 and folinic acid or methylfolate.  For the first time, I found a combination that finally eliminated my fatigue.  It's been a great couple of months and I've been able to think clearer.

 

Surprisingly, this combo also eliminated my libido.  Completely.  It's dead.  It should have had the opposite effect?   I have high COMT activity and I suspect I increased methylation too much much, adding more COMT activity and decreasing dopamine even further.

 

Anyone have any ideas? 

 

I bet you're also depressed or anhedonic even though the fatigue is gone. I've found many methylation and amino acid combos that cured my fatigue and anxiety but most of them killed my sex drive completed and brought on anhedonia...

[Lufega]

 

B12 and folate alone didn't do much for me.  However, adding 500 mg L-methionine made all the difference.  I was taking b12 as either hydroxy of methylb12 and folinic acid or methylfolate.  For the first time, I found a combination that finally eliminated my fatigue.  It's been a great couple of months and I've been able to think clearer.

 

Surprisingly, this combo also eliminated my libido.  Completely.  It's dead.  It should have had the opposite effect?   I have high COMT activity and I suspect I increased methylation too much much, adding more COMT activity and decreasing dopamine even further.

 

Anyone have any ideas? 

 

I bet you're also depressed or anhedonic even though the fatigue is gone. I've found many methylation and amino acid combos that cured my fatigue and anxiety but most of them killed my sex drive completed and brought on anhedonia...

 

 

Actually, yes.  I restarted methylfolate a couple of days ago.  My T measured very low and realizing that methylation is needed to maintain androgen production, I gave this another go.  My case is different.  I used Accutane years ago and its known to upregulate the enyme GNMT permanently which does on to depletes methyl groups and folate.  

 

I feel an effect right away.  Muscle tone improves, I become more assertive but also tired and lethargic.  I also dont feel sharp and I have some trouble remembering simple things.  For example, I couldn't remember the amino acid I used before with this combo "methionine."  I had to scroll up and look for it.  The effect is worse with folinic acid.  That makes me outright depressed.

 

I think I'm missing something.  B12 doesnt improve this and neither did methionine.  Maybe riboflavin or some B-vitamin is missing or even another methyl donor like choline? Tyrosine? No idea.  But I need to make this work for me.  Seems like it's what my body needs..

[gamesguru]

there's a known inhibitor of GNMT, it's called 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate Pentaglutamate.  intellectual masturbation aside, have you tried TMG?  it also supplies a glycine group, and is even used alongside lysine by farmers to increase the muscle mass of livestock.  so there's that.

 

you could also just drop the dose a bit and see if the depression goes away.  dropping the dose more significantly might allow you to use TMG and folate together.  and what's this business about folinic acid anyways?  i would stick with methylfolate or plain folic acid.

 

and yeah, something else could be missing.  maybe it's biotin?  methionine? glutathione? too much arginine or histidine?  sulfur?  vitamin C?  could be a lot of things

[normalizing]

some people with genetical problems cannot process folic acid properly and thats why folinic acid is actually recommended

[Lufega]

I went ahead and tried plain folic acid and bingo! Can't believe I never tried it after so many years at this. I have posts on this very thread going back a couple of years. It's been a few days now and the effect is consistent. I feel Good. More balanced, happy and motivated. Went shopping and actually enjoyed trying things on. I feel really, really good.

Wonder if now Uridine will work for me. :D

Only using 400 mcg with no b12 right now and it cost me 3 bucks..

Edit: something else I noticed; this fixed my problems with cold hands and feet. It warmed me up right away. Iodine never helped in this respect.

Edited by Lufega, 03 February 2017 - 07:22 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

If inositol feels worse, maybe you have not enough serotonin. Have you tried SSRI or 5HTP or similar?

Maybe in theory it does lower serotonin, maybe after months like with SSRIs, but from my own experience it does both increase and lower depending upon circumstances. If I have all the usual, extreme fatigue, irritability, ocd, pounding heart, it may help on day one and worsen my issues on day two, or 100mg may improve my condition but 200 worsens my condition, and so on. It honestly seems very random when it works and when it doesn't.

[jack black]

I went ahead and tried plain folic acid and bingo! Can't believe I never tried it after so many years at this. I have posts on this very thread going back a couple of years. It's been a few days now and the effect is consistent. I feel Good. More balanced, happy and motivated. Went shopping and actually enjoyed trying things on. I feel really, really good.

Wonder if now Uridine will work for me. :D

Only using 400 mcg with no b12 right now and it cost me 3 bucks..

Edit: something else I noticed; this fixed my problems with cold hands and feet. It warmed me up right away. Iodine never helped in this respect.

Amazing. How do you explain it? Deficiency?

[iseethelight]

I went ahead and tried plain folic acid and bingo! Can't believe I never tried it after so many years at this. I have posts on this very thread going back a couple of years. It's been a few days now and the effect is consistent. I feel Good. More balanced, happy and motivated. Went shopping and actually enjoyed trying things on. I feel really, really good.

Wonder if now Uridine will work for me. :D

Only using 400 mcg with no b12 right now and it cost me 3 bucks..

Edit: something else I noticed; this fixed my problems with cold hands and feet. It warmed me up right away. Iodine never helped in this respect.

 

Crazy. I started taking plain folic acid two nights ago myself and it's been positive so far. But I am taking it with b12  and ashwaghanda and I notice the b12 kills the folic acid effect and made me depressed and jittery. So I stopped the b12 this morning and will only be taking folic acid with ashwaganda.. After a week on methylfolate, it induced  anger and even more depression...I will never taking any methylated supps in my life again, they always fuck me up...

Edited by iseethelight, 04 February 2017 - 12:08 AM.

[Lufega]

Jack Black,

It must be a deficiency. I eat greens but admit that not everyday. I might split the dose to 200 mcg x 3. I feel like I start to crash in the late afternoon necessitating a long nap.

Iseethelight,

Any methylated stuff doesnt agree with me either. I do have some MTR/MTRR polymorphisms for b12 so im curious to try folic acid with methylb12 tomorrow but frankly, last couple days have been very positive and I dont want to mess it up.

My B12 levels always test high anyway, even without supplementing.

[Lufega]

there's a known inhibitor of GNMT, it's called 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate Pentaglutamate. intellectual masturbation aside, have you tried TMG? it also supplies a glycine group, and is even used alongside lysine by farmers to increase the muscle mass of livestock. so there's that.

you could also just drop the dose a bit and see if the depression goes away. dropping the dose more significantly might allow you to use TMG and folate together. and what's this business about folinic acid anyways? i would stick with methylfolate or plain folic acid.

and yeah, something else could be missing. maybe it's biotin? methionine? glutathione? too much arginine or histidine? sulfur? vitamin C? could be a lot of things

Is 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate Pentaglutamate available commercially? I tried tmg years ago and gave me migraines and panic attacks. I tried your suggestion of spliting folate into 2 doses and it helped a bit but it was still nowhere as good as plain folic acid.

[iseethelight]

Jack Black,

It must be a deficiency. I eat greens but admit that not everyday. I might split the dose to 200 mcg x 3. I feel like I start to crash in the late afternoon necessitating a long nap.

Iseethelight,

Any methylated stuff doesnt agree with me either. I do have some MTR/MTRR polymorphisms for b12 so im curious to try folic acid with methylb12 tomorrow but frankly, last couple days have been very positive and I dont want to mess it up.

My B12 levels always test high anyway, even without supplementing.

 

We have low histamine. Alcohol increases histamine considerably thru many channels. Folic acid also increases histamine.

[normalizing]

probiotics can also increase histamine as i noticed the bad way. people are not all tolerant to all strains out there so be careful on that

 

also, people either discuss methyfolate or plain folic acid, but good studies are on folinic acid which seems a bit different wonder why nobody ever tried that one...

[jack black]

Jack Black,

It must be a deficiency. I eat greens but admit that not everyday. I might split the dose to 200 mcg x 3. I feel like I start to crash in the late afternoon necessitating a long nap.

Iseethelight,

Any methylated stuff doesnt agree with me either. I do have some MTR/MTRR polymorphisms for b12 so im curious to try folic acid with methylb12 tomorrow but frankly, last couple days have been very positive and I dont want to mess it up.

My B12 levels always test high anyway, even without supplementing.

We have low histamine. Alcohol increases histamine considerably thru many channels. Folic acid also increases histamine.

Interesting. I'm getting positive results from carnosine supplements. The best I can figure out it's via release of histamine.

[ThreeKings12341]

Jack Black,

It must be a deficiency. I eat greens but admit that not everyday. I might split the dose to 200 mcg x 3. I feel like I start to crash in the late afternoon necessitating a long nap.

Iseethelight,

Any methylated stuff doesnt agree with me either. I do have some MTR/MTRR polymorphisms for b12 so im curious to try folic acid with methylb12 tomorrow but frankly, last couple days have been very positive and I dont want to mess it up.

My B12 levels always test high anyway, even without supplementing.

 

if someone has mthfr mutation , can this person have high b12 levels?

 

with folate acid, do u have that feeling like the day after binge drinking?

[Lufega]

 

Jack Black,

It must be a deficiency. I eat greens but admit that not everyday. I might split the dose to 200 mcg x 3. I feel like I start to crash in the late afternoon necessitating a long nap.

Iseethelight,

Any methylated stuff doesnt agree with me either. I do have some MTR/MTRR polymorphisms for b12 so im curious to try folic acid with methylb12 tomorrow but frankly, last couple days have been very positive and I dont want to mess it up.

My B12 levels always test high anyway, even without supplementing.

 

if someone has mthfr mutation , can this person have high b12 levels?

 

with folate acid, do u have that feeling like the day after binge drinking?

 

 

I dont have MTHFR but I couldn't answer that for you.  With an MTR/MTRR mutation, you can methylate enough b12 but I dont know if that translates to high serum levels.  Some people call this a functional deficiency.

 

Can't remember the last time I went binge drinking...