450 replies to this topic

[solias]

I have experienced the hangtroped state several times and this is one of my hypotheses.

 

When one's system is flooded with alcohol, ethanol depresses all the stressful excitatory activity in the brain, pulling it back to a baseline state cleared of all excitatory activity of stress and anxiety that has been accumulated previously.

 

Hence, the brain during the hangover is back at a baseline state - cleared up, cleaned, is calm, still. In this state, cognition is significantly higher than the previous state where it was filled with neurogarbage.

 

Therefore, the hangtroped state would not enhance cognition (as in going from 0 to 1), but simply resect it to zero, from say, minus thirty. 

Edited by solias, 22 January 2018 - 06:33 PM.

[katzenjammer]

 

 

Chadwick, what brand of MTHF do you use? And what form: L-Methylfolate or 5-MTHF ?

 

 

I use Metabolic Maintenance L-methylfolate (which is the same thing as MTHF, 5-MTHF, L-5-MTHF and levometofolic acid - just different names for the same substance).

 

 

So, I've waiting for a slow morning to try this; took 15 mg. MethylPro.  I took it with food.  

 

I have heard either great things (great clarity, etc.) or the opposite (felt like crap, etc.)  What I didn't expect was....nothing haha.  I suppose I feel a bit energized.  

 

Maybe I need to take it on an empty stomach?   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[solias]

 

 

 

Chadwick, what brand of MTHF do you use? And what form: L-Methylfolate or 5-MTHF ?

 

 

I use Metabolic Maintenance L-methylfolate (which is the same thing as MTHF, 5-MTHF, L-5-MTHF and levometofolic acid - just different names for the same substance).

 

 

So, I've waiting for a slow morning to try this; took 15 mg. MethylPro.  I took it with food.  

 

I have heard either great things (great clarity, etc.) or the opposite (felt like crap, etc.)  What I didn't expect was....nothing haha.  I suppose I feel a bit energized.  

 

Maybe I need to take it on an empty stomach?   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

I have tried as well since I feel the hangover-state, or hangtroped (clarity of mind following a night of drinking) strongly.  Methylfolate probably did nothing for me, but I am not sure 100%, because I took a lot (1200 mcg + 1600 mcg of folic acid) and I felt a wave of heat in my body which caused me to panic.

 

I felt horrible for a few days. It was, however, probably due to the panic/anxiety and not the L-methylfolate. I still don't know if I overmethylated.

 

NOTE ASIDE:

 

Anyone here has SLEEP APNEA?

 

That could be another avenue we can walk to investigate the benefits of hangover-state, as it can cause severe mental problems including anxiety etc.; which could be relieved by the alcohol and the glutamate rebound. Just another hypothesis.

Edited by solias, 26 January 2018 - 01:29 PM.

[iseethelight]

What makes you think this is dopamine related? I have the same issue but tyrosine / phenylalanine make me more anhedonic. It'st most likely serotonin in the brain. Methylfolate is known to increase serotonin.

Edited by iseethelight, 28 January 2018 - 04:17 AM.

[iseethelight]

After further research, I think this an NMDA hypofunction issue. So your first guess is likely right. I know you tried some NMDA agonists to no avail but the NMDA receptor is complex so you need the right agonist to replicate the hangover effect aka nmda upregulation and activation. Also Protein Kinase C plays a big role in NMDA activatation.

Edited by iseethelight, 29 January 2018 - 02:21 AM.

[ThreeKings12341]

After further research, I think this an NMDA hypofunction issue. So your first guess is likely right. I know you tried some NMDA agonists to no avail but the NMDA receptor is complex so you need the right agonist to replicate the hangover effect aka nmda upregulation and activation. Also Protein Kinase C plays a big role in NMDA activatation.

 

which nmda agonist can be considered to try for that?

[katzenjammer]

So I've been taking Methylfolate 15mg daily; now that I've settled in to the regimen (by stopping and starting again, isolating the effects of methylfolate as best as I can) I'd say with certainty that methylfolate makes me very relaxed, even sleepy.  One of the factors may be nitric oxide production; it is very clearly the case that my (sorry to get so graphic lol) flaccid hang and erections generally are off the charts.  Beyond that it doesn't seem to do much for me.  

 

So, I'm not sure what that says or whether I should continue taking it.

 

I think I'm going to get DNA tested for MTHFR variants.  Is labcorp pretty good for for that test?  Any recommendations?   

[solias]

So I've been taking Methylfolate 15mg daily; now that I've settled in to the regimen (by stopping and starting again, isolating the effects of methylfolate as best as I can) I'd say with certainty that methylfolate makes me very relaxed, even sleepy.  One of the factors may be nitric oxide production; it is very clearly the case that my (sorry to get so graphic lol) flaccid hang and erections generally are off the charts.  Beyond that it doesn't seem to do much for me.  

 

So, I'm not sure what that says or whether I should continue taking it.

 

I think I'm going to get DNA tested for MTHFR variants.  Is labcorp pretty good for for that test?  Any recommendations?   

 

 

I tried the L-methylfolate and at first felt mildly relaxed, but it could have been placebo as well. I kept adding it and in the evening I experienced a wave of heat to my face that made me panic. I felt weird the following days and I attributed the effects to the folate but it could be that it was just the result of the panic wave, and it has nothing to do with the folate. I still don't know because I never took a second dose of it.

 

I feel like we should recap what we are trying to accomplish here in response to what symptoms, because several people report different symptoms and seek the same solution to different problems, which is not going to work.

 

In my case, it's just that when I am hung over I feel I am different, enhanced version of myself. My sense capacity and my cognitive abilities are increased significantly. I can do things I normally can't.

 

I still haven't found the solution, but I feel, with low confidence, that it's about glutamate excitotoxicity, which can be thought of as a state configuration (entropy if you like) of quantity/distribution of the glutamate neurotransmitters in the brain that has crossed the threshold of what is required for a good, healthy, well-performing brain.

 

This overwhelmed state, that prevents one to feel and experience the brain and the surrounding external in a healthy, effective way, I believe can be the result of different activities/input that inflames the brain. I also believe this inflammation can start from the guts and work its way up to the brain.

 

I am for example certain that mindlessly reading the internet for hours, without properly pausing to absorbe the information content I am reading causes the above. Whenever I have read reddit for hours without stopping, caused that and I almost could not breath and was incapacitated of talking, the brain was soaked in a cloud of fog that prevented me from even finding the words to speak. This clearly impacted all my other cognitive skills and sense capacities.

 

I believe that by looking at the different activities that impact positively or negatively this state of the consciousness one can pinpoint the problem and the solutions.

 

In my case, there are several activities that impact positively my state of cosciousness and put me close to the everlong longed state of consciousness I experience after a night of drinking:

 

- sleeping between 5 and 7 hours at most;

- waking up at 5 or 6 AM;

- eating in a specific way, which brings me to:

 

GLUTEN: I believe gluten can cause a major role in the inflamation of the brain mentioned above. In fact, I always have felt bed miserable after eating pasta or pizza: always immediately sleepy, tired, irritable. Any good state would end within 20 mins of finishing the meal.

 

I begun a gluten free diet. So far, I am feeling much better and close to the hung over state of being just by doing this. It ain't easy eating meat fish veggies only, but I am willing to walk any path. 

 

Closing, i want to add that I have heard of people being able to replicate the hung over state using CBD Oil, 5 mcg, one spray in the mouth. I haven't tried yet. Will soon.

[ThreeKings12341]

 

So I've been taking Methylfolate 15mg daily; now that I've settled in to the regimen (by stopping and starting again, isolating the effects of methylfolate as best as I can) I'd say with certainty that methylfolate makes me very relaxed, even sleepy.  One of the factors may be nitric oxide production; it is very clearly the case that my (sorry to get so graphic lol) flaccid hang and erections generally are off the charts.  Beyond that it doesn't seem to do much for me.  

 

So, I'm not sure what that says or whether I should continue taking it.

 

I think I'm going to get DNA tested for MTHFR variants.  Is labcorp pretty good for for that test?  Any recommendations?   

 

 

I tried the L-methylfolate and at first felt mildly relaxed, but it could have been placebo as well. I kept adding it and in the evening I experienced a wave of heat to my face that made me panic. I felt weird the following days and I attributed the effects to the folate but it could be that it was just the result of the panic wave, and it has nothing to do with the folate. I still don't know because I never took a second dose of it.

 

I feel like we should recap what we are trying to accomplish here in response to what symptoms, because several people report different symptoms and seek the same solution to different problems, which is not going to work.

 

In my case, it's just that when I am hung over I feel I am different, enhanced version of myself. My sense capacity and my cognitive abilities are increased significantly. I can do things I normally can't.

 

I still haven't found the solution, but I feel, with low confidence, that it's about glutamate excitotoxicity, which can be thought of as a state configuration (entropy if you like) of quantity/distribution of the glutamate neurotransmitters in the brain that has crossed the threshold of what is required for a good, healthy, well-performing brain.

 

This overwhelmed state, that prevents one to feel and experience the brain and the surrounding external in a healthy, effective way, I believe can be the result of different activities/input that inflames the brain. I also believe this inflammation can start from the guts and work its way up to the brain.

 

I am for example certain that mindlessly reading the internet for hours, without properly pausing to absorbe the information content I am reading causes the above. Whenever I have read reddit for hours without stopping, caused that and I almost could not breath and was incapacitated of talking, the brain was soaked in a cloud of fog that prevented me from even finding the words to speak. This clearly impacted all my other cognitive skills and sense capacities.

 

I believe that by looking at the different activities that impact positively or negatively this state of the consciousness one can pinpoint the problem and the solutions.

 

In my case, there are several activities that impact positively my state of cosciousness and put me close to the everlong longed state of consciousness I experience after a night of drinking:

 

- sleeping between 5 and 7 hours at most;

- waking up at 5 or 6 AM;

- eating in a specific way, which brings me to:

 

GLUTEN: I believe gluten can cause a major role in the inflamation of the brain mentioned above. In fact, I always have felt bed miserable after eating pasta or pizza: always immediately sleepy, tired, irritable. Any good state would end within 20 mins of finishing the meal.

 

I begun a gluten free diet. So far, I am feeling much better and close to the hung over state of being just by doing this. It ain't easy eating meat fish veggies only, but I am willing to walk any path. 

 

Closing, i want to add that I have heard of people being able to replicate the hung over state using CBD Oil, 5 mcg, one spray in the mouth. I haven't tried yet. Will soon.

 

 

could u pls post a few links where u read that cbd can do that?
 

[solias]

 

 

So I've been taking Methylfolate 15mg daily; now that I've settled in to the regimen (by stopping and starting again, isolating the effects of methylfolate as best as I can) I'd say with certainty that methylfolate makes me very relaxed, even sleepy.  One of the factors may be nitric oxide production; it is very clearly the case that my (sorry to get so graphic lol) flaccid hang and erections generally are off the charts.  Beyond that it doesn't seem to do much for me.  

 

So, I'm not sure what that says or whether I should continue taking it.

 

I think I'm going to get DNA tested for MTHFR variants.  Is labcorp pretty good for for that test?  Any recommendations?   

 

 

I tried the L-methylfolate and at first felt mildly relaxed, but it could have been placebo as well. I kept adding it and in the evening I experienced a wave of heat to my face that made me panic. I felt weird the following days and I attributed the effects to the folate but it could be that it was just the result of the panic wave, and it has nothing to do with the folate. I still don't know because I never took a second dose of it.

 

I feel like we should recap what we are trying to accomplish here in response to what symptoms, because several people report different symptoms and seek the same solution to different problems, which is not going to work.

 

In my case, it's just that when I am hung over I feel I am different, enhanced version of myself. My sense capacity and my cognitive abilities are increased significantly. I can do things I normally can't.

 

I still haven't found the solution, but I feel, with low confidence, that it's about glutamate excitotoxicity, which can be thought of as a state configuration (entropy if you like) of quantity/distribution of the glutamate neurotransmitters in the brain that has crossed the threshold of what is required for a good, healthy, well-performing brain.

 

This overwhelmed state, that prevents one to feel and experience the brain and the surrounding external in a healthy, effective way, I believe can be the result of different activities/input that inflames the brain. I also believe this inflammation can start from the guts and work its way up to the brain.

 

I am for example certain that mindlessly reading the internet for hours, without properly pausing to absorbe the information content I am reading causes the above. Whenever I have read reddit for hours without stopping, caused that and I almost could not breath and was incapacitated of talking, the brain was soaked in a cloud of fog that prevented me from even finding the words to speak. This clearly impacted all my other cognitive skills and sense capacities.

 

I believe that by looking at the different activities that impact positively or negatively this state of the consciousness one can pinpoint the problem and the solutions.

 

In my case, there are several activities that impact positively my state of cosciousness and put me close to the everlong longed state of consciousness I experience after a night of drinking:

 

- sleeping between 5 and 7 hours at most;

- waking up at 5 or 6 AM;

- eating in a specific way, which brings me to:

 

GLUTEN: I believe gluten can cause a major role in the inflamation of the brain mentioned above. In fact, I always have felt bed miserable after eating pasta or pizza: always immediately sleepy, tired, irritable. Any good state would end within 20 mins of finishing the meal.

 

I begun a gluten free diet. So far, I am feeling much better and close to the hung over state of being just by doing this. It ain't easy eating meat fish veggies only, but I am willing to walk any path. 

 

Closing, i want to add that I have heard of people being able to replicate the hung over state using CBD Oil, 5 mcg, one spray in the mouth. I haven't tried yet. Will soon.

 

 

could u pls post a few links where u read that cbd can do that?

 

Anecdotal, no internet sources. People I have engaged with about the problem over the wires mentioned this. Everyone has to try for himself. I have tried several supplements people have sworn by that had ZERO effect on me, examples: awshwagandha, l-theanine, lavanda oil capsules, etc. etc., including potentially B12 vitamins. I feel that likely eating bananas does more for me! in some ways if I replace meals with bananas only I feel much more relaxed and focussed. One has to experiment for himself.

Edited by solias, 16 February 2018 - 07:57 PM.

[solias]

Anyone thinks that the hangover, hangtroped state can be considered similar to a MDMA high?

 

From wikipedia:
 

3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), commonly known as ecstasy (E), is a psychoactive drug used primarily as a recreational drug. The desired recreational effects include increased empathy, euphoria, and heightened sensations.

 

 

[solias]

The answer to this problem is chronic anxiety. That is. During hangover time, that disappears. If anyone wants to discuss, feel free to pm me.

[solias]

Apprentice_Bob, is anyone in contact with him?

[Helllllo]

Hey guys. Made a subreddit to help find a cure for us. https://www.reddit.c...hangovereffect/

 

[YoungSchizo]

YOLF, on 28 Jun 2018 - 04:34 AM, said:

 

I'm not sure if this was the topic that lead me to this connection and I don't have time to read it, but here's something I learned that might help for those who find alcohol to be beneficial for cognitive function:

Tartaric Acid it's $15 for 5 pounds, used in the manufacture of wine and other alcohols, and also good for weight loss. TA is also an alpha hydroxy acid that is capable of ECM remodelling, which can improve the function of failing cells. If taken with something that can enhance stem cell proliferation or proliferation and differentiation, you could see some nice synergistic benefits, especially if you can upregulate your neurosteroid cascade at the same time. You could also take supplements to upregulate FGFs and/or klotho to further improve or delimit the benefits of the AHAs. AHAs all share some common characteristics and their benefits on skin are fairly well characterized, but experimenting with a combination or looking at how levels of the other AHAs in your diet affect your condition could indicate which ones are most important for your condition as each is likely to have a different spectrum of affinity when taken orally.

Please share links to this post in other topics where you think it could help others. No time at present to do it myself.

The topic this is intended for involved someone who saw temporary health improvements after drinking alcohol.

 

 

I think you meant to post your findings on this thread? @Yolf

[Helllllo]

Would love to know more. How much tartaric acid? What are the other supps that it would stack
Well with? Have you tried it youngschizo?

[YoungSchizo]

Would love to know more. How much tartaric acid? What are the other supps that it would stack
Well with? Have you tried it youngschizo?

No, and I have no idea. The forum user Yolf posted this yesterday. Just spreading the word.

[John250]

So, I got my 23andme results back. There are a few interesting things relating to dopamine that I've found so far. I'm homozygous Val/Val for the Val158Met in COMT, which means I'm breaking down dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine fast. I'm heterozygous for the Taq1A form of DRD2/ANKK1, which means my D2 dopamine receptors are less sensitive to dopamine. I'm also heterozygous for two mutations in the MTHFR enzyme: 1298 and 677. This means I'm producing less MTHF than the average person.



Personally I had an amazing time on 4 mg MTHF per day, without side effects, but that only lasted a week. After that anxiety and brain fog set in. After doing some googling I found this site which describes my experience quite well. It seems as if some people does not exerience any side effects, some get side effects after a week and some never have any trouble. This can be explained by the fact that MTHF has a methyl group, and therefore increases methylation which in turn can cause anxiety and brain fog.

For me this resolved after lowering my dose to 800 micrograms x2 per day, and adding 250 mg time-release niacin (vitamin B3). Niacin is broken down by methylation, and can therefore decrease excessive methylation. http://www.longecity..._DIR#/smile.png Sadly, the amazing results I felt the first week wore off, but I'm still doing better than I did before.

Very interesting thread. Chadwick did you ever supplement with iron? I think many of my similar symptoms of yours come from low iron as well. I just picked up some iron bisglycinate.
My mutations are:
Slc19a1 G80A C/T
MTHFR 1298 G/T
MTHFR 677 A/G
MTRR A66 G/G
ANKK1 rs11604671 A/G
ANKK1 rs2734849 G/A
DRD2 rs6277 A/G
DRD2 rs1800498 A/G
DRD2 rs2242592 G/A

COMT looks like it’s a mess. Attached is a pic.

Attached Files

•  22BFE7C6-B205-478A-8607-2856158BCFCD.png   421.06KB   0 downloads

[John250]

More dopamine attached

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•  04478336-3049-4F2E-A25C-5484C1354DED.jpeg   213.41KB   0 downloads

[John250]

Some pretty good info here on the type of B12 to take based off your mutations. For example MethylB12 is bad for me I need Hydroxycobalamin, Adenosylcobalamin and L-Methylfolate based off my mutations. Been using 1000mcg Life Extension L-Methylfolate for 5 days and feel nothing may need to up the dose. Also Chad did you ever consider just taking actual BH4?

https://methyl-life....st-form-of-b12/

Edited by John250, 15 July 2018 - 11:05 PM.

[manicmode]

Hey Chadwick or anyone else, any updates on taking 15mg of  methylfolate ? 

[Cube]

Hey manicmode I'm homozygous for mthfr c677t and comt met met. Unfortunately I've just started methylfolate and Adenosylcobalamin so will keep ya updated

[manicmode]

Hey Cube, any updates? And what's your dose of methylfolate? 

 

It looks like Chadwick recommends 15mg of methylfolate. And that's the dose of Deplin (prescription methylfolate). 

 

He also mentions that he had great luck with direct BH4 supplementation. But stopped due to cost and not a reliable source. 

 

I actually found what seems to be a reliable source for BH4 and just bought some. I'll update y'all on how that goes. 

 

Here's the source for it if interested: https://www.spectrum...in-60-capsules/

 

If I only need the 2.5mg dose, that should only be $60/mo and I would gladly pay that if I feel great again. 

[Getm]

I noticed something similar with me, maybe someone could guide me what to try next. I tried testosterone booster lately (DAA - D-Aspartic Acid) and noticed a little dopaminergic boost during first few days (sober). But when the weekend came so came the hangover on saturday morning - I experienced great happy feeling with motivation and was very talkative. It didn't happen right away in the morning but 3 hours after DAA 3g dosage. Next day after drinking - the same story. But monday morning after sober day - nothing. So it's like DAA gives me what I need but only during hangover. I'm compound hetero MTHFR. I tried methylation supps without much success. I have mercury in my hair but haven't got any amalgam fillings ever.

I wish I could feel the same without hangover. If I don't take DAA the hangover is bearable but not pleasent for me. Like maybe testosterone deficiency (haven't tested it but have many symptoms).

[Cube]

Hey manicmode sorry i didn't see your reply, for me too many methyl groups can give me some grief due to comt met met, I usually just take a b-right which is a jarrow sup quite cheap contains 400mcg, but i also take nac and other doners. If I've taken too many methyl doners i just take glycine before bed or some niacin.

[Cube]

The mercury could come from various sources, something worth looking into especially in relation to mthfr.

[kurdishfella]

I don't know if I've posted this or not but just in case: I noticed dopamine makes my body odor smell better. Only possible because of chronic deficiency. Maybe it has to do with dopamine interacting with vitamin D or bacteria on the skin? Either way, does it then also effect taste of everything? So perhaps also adrenaline and norepinephrine affect too mouth breath etc?

Edited by kurdishfella, 08 October 2020 - 12:13 AM.

[Dbs]

How was your childhood ? Have you been suffering from any kind of abuse or bullying? How do you react to stress ? How do you react to intensive exercise ?

[ErgogenicHealth]

I ended up doing a video on this topic: 

[Maks]

I have been helped to some extent by taking Lamotrigine (Lamictal) on a regular basis. My life is much better now.