81 replies to this topic

[Authentic]

Was SciWalk one of the people that turned around and tried selling Epitalon to us? I hope not.

I like to think of things logically. Have you received any vaccines sublingual? The fastest way into your bloodstream is - going directly into your bloodstream...

[Authentic]

Dreamer did Sciwalk later try to sell everyone on it though?

For Antigens and allergy treatments studies have shown SCIT and SLIT to be about equal but those are not for a super-short easily degraded peptide. If I remember right someone here was telling people to mix it with wine first?

Has anyone here had the "deep tired" results using SubL (SLIT) ?

[Dreamer]

Dreamer did Sciwalk later try to sell everyone on it though?

For Antigens and allergy treatments studies have shown SCIT and SLIT to be about equal but those are not for a super-short easily degraded peptide. If I remember right someone here was telling people to mix it with wine first?

Has anyone here had the "deep tired" results using SubL (SLIT) ?

You seem to be inferring that sciwalk was here trying to convince everyone to take AGAG so he could profit from it. I think you are wrong.

If you think that and want to know what he did here, simply go back to the beginning of this thread and read it thoroughly. I have, so I know.

Again, you need to read before you go quoting. I know of no post that advocated mixing with wine first.

I'll stay with sublingual.

Edited by Dreamer, 04 August 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[Authentic]

If your point of experimenting is to live longer I'd suggest to NOT use any peptides made in China.... I worked there for years and can assure you that there is no real assurance of quality nor what you are ingesting. Even if you trust the Chinese lab their materials suppliers will sell them lower quality or fake materials, thus the final product will be likely flawed and possibly dangerous. The largest westernized food suppliers in China such as Borden ended up selling milk with plastic in it, so if you think one little lab is not going to get tricked you are highly mistaken. Be realistic in your expectations and understanding of how far the Chinese will go for profit. Judge on past recent actions, not the nice words of one guy on this forum.

How much should you really pay? I paid $300 for a total of 100mg of Epitalon in 5mg vials. It is over 98% pure (99.32 in the HPLC) and was made by a local lab that I have used many times and is a supplier to UBC (where I made the connect during a different experiment) with true ISO9001 QA. The effect of this Epitalon is so strong that I have to keep cutting back the dosage to the point where I'm injecting so little that this 100mg might even last me 2 years (which is the shelf life of the peptide when stored at -20c).

Instead of buying from anyone on this forum, just search this term and seek pricing "Custom Peptide Synthesis".

(Notice how I won't tell you where I bought mine nor am I trying to get you to go in on a "group buy" with me. That's what genuine researchers do. We share information with each other in the hopes of learning and pushing forward the actual experiment towards true results).

Up top in your search bar type in Custom Peptide Synthesis. You'll get a bunch of results. Click on 3 that seem like Peptide companies (that are local to you - NOT in China) and fill out their simple form to get a quotation for Epitalon. The sequence is L-Alanyl-L-glutamyl-L-aspartyl-glycine. Tell them you want it downsampled into 2mg or 5mg re-usable vials. Your lab rats will squeak "Thank you for not injecting Chinese garbage into us". Your journals will finally show a pattern other than "this is what happens when you inject Chinese garbage into rats compared to baseline".

Of course your Lab Rats will also squeak "please don't let the Chinese sell us as fake Lamb".....

BEIJING (AP) -- Chinese police have broken up a criminal ring accused of taking meat from rats and foxes and selling it as lamb in the country's latest food safety scandal.
The Ministry of Public Security released results of a three-month crackdown on food safety violators, saying in a statement that authorities investigated more than 380 cases and arrested 904 suspects.
Among those arrested were 63 people who allegedly ran an operation in Shanghai and the coastal city of Wuxi that bought fox, mink, rat and other meat that had not been tested for quality and safety, processed it with additives like gelatin and passed it off as lamb.
The meat was sold to farmers' markets in Jiangsu province and Shanghai, it said.
Despite years of food scandals — from milk contaminated with an industrial chemical to the use of industrial dyes in eggs — China has been unable to clean up its food supply chain

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Edited by Authentic, 05 August 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Dreamer]

(Notice how I won't tell you where I bought mine nor am I trying to get you to go in on a "group buy" with me. That's what genuine researchers do. We share information with each other in the hopes of learning and pushing forward the actual experiment towards true results).

I notice that on one hand, you won't tell us your source, and on the other hand, you tell us that "genuine researchers" share information with each other and include yourself as a "genuine researcher".

Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

[Authentic]

If I shared that information I'd be mistaken as just another person on this board trying to sell their wares. I've already shared with you exactly how to obtain it in the proper manner this time. Rather then sharing my source, I've taught you exactly how to source it yourself.

[Dreamer]

Wow!

Thanks for the lesson in how to use Google or other search engines! I don't think we could have ever figured that out without your explanation.

[solarfingers]

Notice how I won't tell you where I bought mine nor am I trying to get you to go in on a "group buy" with me. That's what genuine researchers do. We share information with each other in the hopes of learning and pushing forward the actual experiment towards true results.

Authentic... I believe you are genuine and don't want people to think you are here selling. Please feel free to share you "Source" and let us make up our own minds like grownups. If you perform a Google search your going to find a number of companies selling peptides 98.9% pure ISO, ect.... Now how would I go about finding the good ones. I would rely on the testimony of others. Now... Please share.

Thank you...

[jabowery]

(reasonably detailed protocol for conducting experiments)

Thank you, Authentic, for going to the trouble of detailing your protocol.

I'll say this in Dreamer's defense: As others have pointed out the true costs of intermediation need to be recognized, so group-buy managers are providing substantial value that needs to be recognized, whether or not compensated in pricing.

That said, by providing a protocol including disintermediation, you are raising the level of discourse.

Edited by jabowery, 05 August 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[jabowery]

Authentic... I believe you are genuine and don't want people to think you are here selling. Please feel free to share you "Source" and let us make up our own minds like grownups. If you perform a Google search your going to find a number of companies selling peptides 98.9% pure ISO, ect.... Now how would I go about finding the good ones. I would rely on the testimony of others. Now... Please share.

Thank you...

He did share a _lot_. He has his reasons for maintaining confidentiality regarding his source. He has done the public a service by providing the information he has.

Moreover, if you are really concerned about "finding the good ones", it is better to ask him about HPLC services:

It is over 98% pure (99.32 in the HPLC) and was made by a local lab that I have used many times and is a supplier to UBC (where I made the connect during a different experiment) with true ISO9001 QA.

These are likely to be less sensitive.

Edited by jabowery, 05 August 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[solarfingers]

Authentic... I believe you are genuine and don't want people to think you are here selling. Please feel free to share you "Source" and let us make up our own minds like grownups. If you perform a Google search your going to find a number of companies selling peptides 98.9% pure ISO, ect.... Now how would I go about finding the good ones. I would rely on the testimony of others. Now... Please share.

Thank you...

He did share a _lot_. He has his reasons for maintaining confidentiality regarding his source. He has done the public a service by providing the information he has.

Moreover, if you are really concerned about "finding the good ones", it is better to ask him about HPLC services:

It is over 98% pure (99.32 in the HPLC) and was made by a local lab that I have used many times and is a supplier to UBC (where I made the connect during a different experiment) with true ISO9001 QA.

These are likely to be less sensitive.

So what USEFUL information has he actually shared? Telling us he's got the inward scoop and then telling us to Google it is akin to throwing a 1900 penny in a fountain and telling us to go find it. All I can say is THANKS ALLOT for sharing that bit of information, NOT!

Edited by solarfingers, 05 August 2013 - 08:16 PM.

[solarfingers]

From what I can gather this is the company he is referring to:

http://store.biobasi...ls-and-pricing/

Peptide service near UBC in Canada. PS, I don't work for them either.

[Authentic]

In science we have to work hard to overcome the consistency principle. If certain types of people make a decision they tend to stick with that decision even if it later is shown to be inherently flawed (such as adding wine - which is full of many enzymes and bacteria that will very likely break down a peptide, to the peptide solution, and justifying it by saying the peptide was already reconstituted as if somehow water is going to protect the peptide from the enzymes and bacteria in wine). In all published experiments of Epitalon, I have never seen anyone use a protocol like that. If people are trying to recreate the previous successes they really should recreate the protocols. By changing just one thing in a protocol it becomes and entirely new experiment (often with entirely different results).

These people will go to extreme lengths to make themselves and others feel like their original decision was the right one. It's an ego related activity. To admit that one is wrong is difficult for some people. The lengths people have gone to make their original decision seem "right" is truly amazing. Wait till you see the barrage that will come after this post....

The best way to get through to these people is to say "when you made your original decision based on the facts you had at the time. However now that you have learned many new facts, perhaps you would consider making a new decision, based on all the new facts that you have learned."

[solarfingers]

In science we have to work hard to overcome the consistency principle. If certain types of people make a decision they tend to stick with that decision even if it later is shown to be inherently flawed (such as adding wine - which is full of many enzymes and bacteria that will very likely break down a peptide, to the peptide solution, and justifying it by saying the peptide was already reconstituted as if somehow water is going to protect the peptide from the enzymes and bacteria in wine). In all published experiments of Epitalon, I have never seen anyone use a protocol like that. If people are trying to recreate the previous successes they really should recreate the protocols. By changing just one thing in a protocol it becomes and entirely new experiment (often with entirely different results).

These people will go to extreme lengths to make themselves and others feel like their original decision was the right one. It's an ego related activity. To admit that one is wrong is difficult for some people. The lengths people have gone to make their original decision seem "right" is truly amazing. Wait till you see the barrage that will come after this post....

The best way to get through to these people is to say "when you made your original decision based on the facts you had at the time. However now that you have learned many new facts, perhaps you would consider making a new decision, based on all the new facts that you have learned."

Authentic... No disrespect but you are really beginning to lose all credibility. Firstly, alcohol does destroy bacteria and viruses. Secondly, a moderate amount of alcohol will not break peptide bonds. You seem like a nice guy and yet you only have 13 posts. You might be a PHD for all we know but you could be a high school dropout. If you could provide some proof in way of documentation that everyone else is wrong but you... well, that would make your case much stronger. Could you post some citations that prove your case?

Thanks...

[Authentic]

I'm not sure if you realize it but you are changing the word "wine" to "alcohol" which are entirely different substances. In order to make wine you specifically add, enhance or at least utilize enzymes including pectinases, hemicellulases, glucanases and glycosidases. I'm not sure if you understand what these enzymes do, and will do when in contact with Epitalon. Then you have the bacteria, remaining yeast, etc.. All these have the potential to break down the Eptialon, especially when left over time.

Have you ever seen another peptide stored in wine?

Please keep this conversation about wine, don't change it to purified alcohol because that is an entirely different subject matter. Even non-purified alcohol should be avoided. Bacteriostatic water for injection is by definition, purified and not the same as using water from your tap with vodka. The point is to avoid bacteria and contaminants, NOT TO ADD THEM.

Edited by Authentic, 06 August 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[sciwalk]

OK lets see, let us start with your previous comments about China.
I am not Chinese, but, I have worked and lived in China for over 20 years. I am sorry that you came away, from your time in China, having such a bad opinion and belief that everyone and everything in China is evil, crooked and divisive. That is not to say that there are not bad elements, corruption and people who do do bad things for the purpose of gain, without any moral judgment or concern of effect to others. On the other hand, I can say that my other 32 years of living in many other places, including Canada, that these conditions, to some extent, existed in all of them. Some can choose to see everything as bad, some can choose to see everything as good. I choose to look for the good despite the bad for if I don't I would have given up on humanity a long time ago.

"Even if you trust the Chinese lab their materials suppliers will sell them lower quality or fake materials, thus the final product will be likely flawed and possibly dangerous."
Ouch - What we do not make ourselves, we test, each and every lot of materials that we use. I would do that no matter where I was buying it from.

"These people will go to extreme lengths to make themselves and others feel like their original decision was the right one."
I have to respond to this one, even though I think you are focusing this at Dreamer, because, I was the one to original devise the use of wine and I would guess that Dreamers decision to do so is based on that.
We tested the AEDG mixed with 50% distilled water and 50% wine, also with just water, at 1 week intervals out to 3 months. The degradation was retarded significantly over the straight water, I stand by that. However, that is not to say that other ways, even bac-water, would not be just as good. Only that it does work with the wine and many people cannot find bac-water, cannot not even get it delivered to them in the mail in many locations. Wine, pretty much, everyone can get. That's all, nothing fancy, no big medical break through or any resounding, astounding discovery or falsehood to try and stand behind or prop up.

AEDG is not melatonin, taking more AEDG or even taking intravenously is not going to cause you to have a melatonin rush. It was found, in Khavison's research that it does promote your Pineal gland to produce more, which, in my opinion, is far better then supplementation. But it, in the reasearch, does reach a limit which is only slightly over the natural levels of a healthy Pineal gland and still within the normal cycles (at night, or better to say, lack of light). Rather than focus on why others are not having the extreme tired reaction you are, maybe you might want to think more about why you are. I do not say this in a bolstering or mean way, I just want to point out that of the hundreds of people I am in contact with that are taking AEDG, and not just from my lab, none have reported such a result as you have stated, even taking it sub-q. That would concern me. If, on the other hand, you have reports from others of the same reaction as you, is that only people taking the peptide from the same lab as you, or from multiple labs? I would be very interested to glean any info you could supply.

Thank you for your posts and your time. Love your country by the way. Had an office up in Vancouver for a few years, loved my time there. Got hooked on the outrageously good fish and chips. Don't even get me started about the Cider!!!!!!

Edited by sciwalk, 06 August 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Authentic]

We tested the AEDG mixed with 50% distilled water and 50% wine, also with just water, at 1 week intervals out to 3 months. The degradation was retarded significantly over the straight water, I stand by that. However, that is not to say that other ways, even bac-water, would not be just as good.

Would you mind sharing your actual test data in a standardized format. Yes there are others who have utilized the same batch of Epitalon and we all had the same super-tired effect. Remember that ours is very different than yours. What is the purity of yours and do you have the data to back that purity claim?

[sciwalk]

"What is the purity of yours and do you have the data to back that purity claim?"
" if you read the thread again you'll see a lot of posts saying to mix it with wine."
If you read the thread again you'll will see that the purity of the peptide my lab makes has already been shown.

"Remember that ours is very different than yours".
Just exactly how is "YOURS" so very different than "OURS"? It is a 4 mer tetra-peptide for gods sake. And now its "YOUR" peptide?? I thought you might actually be trying to add something to this forum, now I am calling BS!!!

Oooohhh, the peptide I am buying is so much better then the others, does yours bring you the newspaper and a beer like mine? But I can't tell you where I get mine or I will be accused of trying to sell my super duper excellent stuff that no body else can make, ours is special (hint hint, ask me in PM where I get it, wink wink) BS BS BS. I really had hopes you were legit.

[Dreamer]

Actually, I have always used vodka in the final mixing of the peptide. I use wine interchangably with alcohol here as some have expressed confusion on how to measure to get the recommended percentage of alcohol. Wine typically being about ~14% alcohol makes a 50/50 mix about ~7% alcohol.

I find it interesting that someone can come onto this forum and try to promote themself as the resident expert. It is one thing to ask or raise questions. It is entirely another matter when someone attempts to denounce everyone else in an attempt to elevate themself. It kinda pegs my BS meter.

I also find it interesting when someone demands "scientific" proof to back up what someone else says but does not provide the same for what they say. That, too, pegs my BS meter.

It appears to me that sciwalk has answered the question as to the soundness of using wine to prevent contamination of the peptide. If someone disagrees, please provide the data to back up your argument.

As for the effect you might be getting to your use of a peptide from a particular supplier that others using the same peptide from the same supplier also get, yet nobody else using the peptide from various suppliers are getting, a scientifically inquisitive mind might lead one to question the quality of the peptide causing these unusual, undesirable effects instead of saying that all other peptides are defective. This also pegs my BS meter.

[solarfingers]

I find it interesting that someone can come onto this forum and try to promote themself as the resident expert. It is one thing to ask or raise questions. It is entirely another matter when someone attempts to denounce everyone else in an attempt to elevate themself. It kinda pegs my BS meter.

That's just about what I was saying...

[Authentic]

Wow, when I asked for your test results from the experiment you stated you had done I assumed you would share them. Reacting with emotion instead of data usually means the person is lying. Since you said above "We tested the AEDG mixed with 50% distilled water and 50% wine, also with just water, at 1 week intervals out to 3 months. The degradation was retarded significantly over the straight water, I stand by that." In order to state this, you had to use some form of analysis in this determination. What methods did you use and please share the results (if they exist).

I wonder if Sciwalk is also related to Biolumaresearch? People that post on forums, then later reveal themselves to be related to a Chinese peptide company that is producing the item they are promoting on the forum, are not independent.

Guys, don't buy anything from anyone on this forum, especially from China. Their goal is their own profit not the advance of a true experiment nor your health.

The lady doth protest too much

While I truly hope that results of this wine experiment will be posted, I don't hold out hope. I hope your Chinese company does well for you Sciwalk but please stop selling to people on this forum. It's a conflict.

[pleb]

Authentic you have done nothing but call other firms outside of the US charlatans and not worth buying especially the Chinese companies, i disagreed with you then and still do,

whilst there are lots of smaller companies in china that are simply resellers and will rip you of there are also genuine companies who do sell good peptides although they may not make what other people want so a specialist company is needed, nore in the smaller amounts we would buy,

may i ask if you are a biochemist who you work for, if you work for a reseller can you say who ?

I've used various peptides hormones etc. over the last few months and the only one i have had that has produced a adverse reaction is from is a Canadian reseller who claims their peptide is produced in Canada, this i started two weeks ago

i have had stinging when injected and at the moment large inflamed circular raised welts around the injection sites i'm hoping these go down and disappear as the original did, 4 days after the first time i used it, the first time i just thought i was unlucky and perhaps had some contamination on the needle despite cleaning the area and using throw away syringes, but despite their assurance that it is 98 percent pure , i have my doubts,

if needed i can post both the name of the company and the correspondence from them,

Edited by pleb, 06 August 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[solarfingers]

Authentic...

Sciwalk isn't selling. He stopped arranging sales when he bought into the distributor. In fact he rarely posts in this thread anymore... Not until some knucklehead shows up. I think that the burden of proof is on you. You're the one saying we can't mix it with wine without it degrading. You're the one who is saying that we shouldn't buy anything from China. I bought mine from Genscript right here in the USA. There is more than one anecdotal experience in this thread that prove your theories wrong. So please, as I asked before, post some proof or bug-out.

[Authentic]

Pleb I definitely do not work for any reseller of any peptide. For Solarfingers you mentioned Genscript but in an earlier post someone said they sometimes produce outside of the US. Regardless if you are buying any peptide the supplier should always give you HPLC and Mass Spectroscopy data for the peptide. No experimenter can work without these and if they are not supplied you really have to ask yourself why?

It's like if I sold you some white powder from China and claimed it was Epitalon, then wouldn't give you any documentation to prove it. Why would you trust me? You really shouldn't and instead should insist on HPLC and M.S. data for the batch. No experiment can be done without proper documentation and paperwork. I said this before but certain people don't want to recognize that if you are trying to recreate an experiment you have to use the same protocols as the original experiment. If you change ANYTHING, you risk changing the outcome. The original experiments with Epitalon were SubQ injected and were a highly purified 98%+ peptide. If you change any of this, you possibly change the results.

Pleb, if you let me know the name of the peptide you had issues with I can do some quick research to see if it's one that people develop antibodies to. That happens with certain peptides. Sometimes these antibodies go away over time. However it's important to note the key principle above. If you change anything in the peptide or solution you use to recon, it could be the cause of a reaction.

[Authentic]

Have you tried contacting Genscript to ask for the documentation (HPLC and Mass Spectroscopy data for the peptide) ?

[solarfingers]

Have you tried contacting Genscript to ask for the documentation (HPLC and Mass Spectroscopy data for the peptide) ?

It may be on the container which I currently do not have on me... I will ask them.

[Dreamer]

"Authentic"

A word we all understand and value.

But, as a name is quite arrogant and coupled with the person using it in the manner used with everything but him/her described as phony by him/her, quite frankly, it is pegging my BS meter.

Then there are the distractions away from the subject of this forum which is Epitalon/AGAG/AEDG and the transparent attempt to patronize and gain some credibility. My BS meter is pegged again.

I think we should try to get back on topic and if "Authentic" has nothing positive or constructive to add, perhaps he/she will hopefully be content to remain silent.

MY BS meter is wearing out.

At least, that's the way it looks from here.

Edited by Dreamer, 06 August 2013 - 10:39 PM.

[Authentic]

Dreamer, I know how angry you must be. I'd be angry too if I was you. I don't care about your BS meter. Your BS meter should be pointed in the direction of that "group buy" you participated in. Please post the results of that analysis if or when it happens.

Edited by Authentic, 06 August 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[Authentic]

Authentic when do you plan on coming out and letting us know who you represent?

I don't represent anyone other than myself. People have messaged me many times asking for sources and I politely tell each person no. People type not-so-nice things earlier trying to get me to give sources and I still say no.

I recognize that this is abnormal behavior on this particular forum. Usually people seem to start off one way then suddenly turn and invite you into a "group buy" or "suddenly decide to invest in a peptide company". To me, that reeks. I'll never try to sell anyone here anything and I certainly won't tell you sources but I have genuinely tried to help you find your own reliable sources by giving you the terms to type into your search engine and what you should request from your suppliers.

I'll continue to ask you why you have changed the protocol from what Khavinson used.

In return I'll get angry responses from people that are either selling Chinese peptides or their supporters. I'm also sure that many other readers here will recognize the possible effects of changing Khavinson's protocol. These same readers will also recognize that they should not use peptides that don't come with proper supporting documentation.

*Please don't buy anything from anyone on this forum. This forum is supposed to be a discussion place, not a way to sell goods*

[Dreamer]

Dreamer, I know how angry you must be. I'd be angry too if I was you. I don't care about your BS meter. Your BS meter should be pointed in the direction of that "group buy" you participated in. Please post the results of that analysis if or when it happens.

You make the same mistake most self promoted gurus make by assuming you know what is in the mind of others. Trust me, you don't know.

I have no anger towards you or anyone else here. You mean nothing to me. And I certainly do not know why you would be angry if you were me. Just another example of pegging my BS meter.

I certainly do not have to justify my involvement in a group buy to you.

How can you be so arrogant as to demand anything about it from me or anyone else? You are not even entitled to any information about it since you were not a part of it. Your arrogance knows no boundaries.

I have no idea what your background is and frankly do not care. You lost all credibility with me so it really doesn't matter what you say from this point forward, I won't believe you. Now, I realize that won't matter to you since you are not interested in honest dialogue. You are only interested in promoting yourself and whatever else you represent, which we probably don't know yet.

I found this forum interesting and joined to learn, not be an expert and/or sell anything.

You seem to denigrate everything except yourself, whom you hold in the highest regard.

I'll pass your action. You are wearing out my BS meter.