81 replies to this topic

[Dreamer]

Authentic when do you plan on coming out and letting us know who you represent?

I don't know how you got a photo of my BS meter, but yes, that is what it looks like and what it does when Authentic posts anything. It is very accurate.

[solarfingers]

Authentic when do you plan on coming out and letting us know who you represent?

I don't represent anyone other than myself. People have messaged me many times asking for sources and I politely tell each person no. People type not-so-nice things earlier trying to get me to give sources and I still say no.

I recognize that this is abnormal behavior on this particular forum. Usually people seem to start off one way then suddenly turn and invite you into a "group buy" or "suddenly decide to invest in a peptide company". To me, that reeks. I'll never try to sell anyone here anything and I certainly won't tell you sources but I have genuinely tried to help you find your own reliable sources by giving you the terms to type into your search engine and what you should request from your suppliers.

I'll continue to ask you why you have changed the protocol from what Khavinson used.

In return I'll get angry responses from people that are either selling Chinese peptides or their supporters. I'm also sure that many other readers here will recognize the possible effects of changing Khavinson's protocol. These same readers will also recognize that they should not use peptides that don't come with proper supporting documentation.

*Please don't buy anything from anyone on this forum. This forum is supposed to be a discussion place, not a way to sell goods*

I will vouch for this. I messaged him and he politely said no. I am personally grateful for the work Khavinson did but I do not follow him or his work like a cult. I can make my own decisions on how to proceed with my own treatment.

Thank you for the warning. There are moderators involved in this thread and they are aware of the group buy. This is not violating the site policy. You seem to be doing nothing productive but stirring people up. Now, please contribute something useful, ask a question we can all digest on, or leave. We are immune to you condescending tones.

Perhaps you can post an image of what proper supporting documents look like. Anyone can create a document. It doesn't make the contents of the document true. My recommendation is to go with known reputable sources. Any suggestions?

Thank you.

Edited by solarfingers, 07 August 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[AdamI]

Authentic, Sciwalk did tell us he did those test on how long the peptide would survive in wine, this was done maybe a year ago. And he did it without anyone asking about it or question it. Also why are u using the name Authentic is it because u are not Autenthic, seems so obvious when one choose a name like that, then something is up. Like other promoters they have also used such names, just like they never made posts before and then suddenly they do and then they try to sell something... so how lon was Sciwalk active on Longecity before he started "selling", awhile I would guess. So you are caught

[Authentic]

Authentic, Sciwalk did tell us he did those test on how long the peptide would survive in wine, this was done maybe a year ago. And he did it without anyone asking about it or question it. Also why are u using the name Authentic is it because u are not Autenthic, seems so obvious when one choose a name like that, then something is up. Like other promoters they have also used such names, just like they never made posts before and then suddenly they do and then they try to sell something... so how lon was Sciwalk active on Longecity before he started "selling", awhile I would guess. So you are caught

Adam have you read my posts?

I have never tried to sell anyone here anything. In fact I did the opposite.

Sciwalk has tried to sell you a peptide from his lab in China. I think he's further involved in this business than you think. He won't answer my question about his relation to another Epitalon marketing company above. He makes claims like the one about wine, and claims he did testing but won't share the results and has a tissy fit when I asked for them. I've got to tell you, that's really not normal behavior.

So ask yourself; What have I tried to sell you? Nothing! In fact, less than nothing!
What have others tried to sell you? Their products!

If you had a business to protect where you were marketing Epitalon and then a person came on this forum and jeopardized it, wouldn't you freak out on him? If he kept telling people to buy their Epitalon from true 3rd party sources and to follow the inventors protocol instead of buying it from you and following your made-up protocol, imagine how you'd feel. I must be an huge threat to them and their business model. I understand what's happening but it's morally wrong to market to people their Chinese white powder without proper documentation. For all you know it could be a very harmful substance.

Why would you change the protocol from the original experiments done by the INVENTOR of Epitalon, if you were trying to recreate his results? I feel sorry for you guys that fell for this. It pains me to see people taken advantage of. That's why I made my name "Authentic" and that's why I keep trying to suggest that you buy your own peptides from your own supplier, follow certain standards, and follow the guidelines set forth by the INVENTOR of the peptide.

Any real peptide synthesis lab will gladly give you their HPLC and MS for the peptide they produced for you. Anyone selling you an unknown white powder that's not very pure will not want to give you their data (they'd be embarrassing themselves). Always be sure you know what you're really buying and PLEASE DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM ANYONE ON THIS FORUM.

PS - the goal of these Epitalon marketers now will be to bury this post with non-responses. Imagine if instead of spending their time on this, they'd supply real testing information and data on the products they marketed to you.

[solarfingers]

Any real peptide synthesis lab will gladly give you their HPLC and MS for the peptide they produced for you. Anyone selling you an unknown white powder that's not very pure will not want to give you their data (they'd be embarrassing themselves). Always be sure you know what you're really buying and PLEASE DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM ANYONE ON THIS FORUM.

Authentic,

I am embarrassed for you because you just don't realize how much you sound like an A**. You just don't get it. Nobody cares what you think. Genscript was more than happy to provide the HPLC and MS for their sample. Did you bother to look at them since you cried so loud that we must have them?

Just to steal the air from your argument I did not participate in the group sale and I bought my sample directly and at a significantly higher cost.

Edited by solarfingers, 07 August 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Dreamer]

Authentic, Sciwalk did tell us he did those test on how long the peptide would survive in wine, this was done maybe a year ago. And he did it without anyone asking about it or question it. Also why are u using the name Authentic is it because u are not Autenthic, seems so obvious when one choose a name like that, then something is up. Like other promoters they have also used such names, just like they never made posts before and then suddenly they do and then they try to sell something... so how lon was Sciwalk active on Longecity before he started "selling", awhile I would guess. So you are caught

Adam have you read my posts?

I have never tried to sell anyone here anything. In fact I did the opposite.

Sciwalk has tried to sell you a peptide from his lab in China. I think he's further involved in this business than you think. He won't answer my question about his relation to another Epitalon marketing company above. He makes claims like the one about wine, and claims he did testing but won't share the results and has a tissy fit when I asked for them. I've got to tell you, that's really not normal behavior.

So ask yourself; What have I tried to sell you? Nothing! In fact, less than nothing!
What have others tried to sell you? Their products!

If you had a business to protect where you were marketing Epitalon and then a person came on this forum and jeopardized it, wouldn't you freak out on him? If he kept telling people to buy their Epitalon from true 3rd party sources and to follow the inventors protocol instead of buying it from you and following your made-up protocol, imagine how you'd feel. I must be an huge threat to them and their business model. I understand what's happening but it's morally wrong to market to people their Chinese white powder without proper documentation. For all you know it could be a very harmful substance.

Why would you change the protocol from the original experiments done by the INVENTOR of Epitalon, if you were trying to recreate his results? I feel sorry for you guys that fell for this. It pains me to see people taken advantage of. That's why I made my name "Authentic" and that's why I keep trying to suggest that you buy your own peptides from your own supplier, follow certain standards, and follow the guidelines set forth by the INVENTOR of the peptide.

Any real peptide synthesis lab will gladly give you their HPLC and MS for the peptide they produced for you. Anyone selling you an unknown white powder that's not very pure will not want to give you their data (they'd be embarrassing themselves). Always be sure you know what you're really buying and PLEASE DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM ANYONE ON THIS FORUM.

PS - the goal of these Epitalon marketers now will be to bury this post with non-responses. Imagine if instead of spending their time on this, they'd supply real testing information and data on the products they marketed to you.

Actually, you have been trying to sell your authenticity ever since your first post here and even before that when you chose your name. We can only guess why you are doing and saying what you do. My guess is that if you are successful in selling yourself, it will feed your ego. I haven’t seen any expertise in anything you posted that couldn’t come from Google.

Sciwalk started this thread and when I first started reading it, my interest was in AGAG/AEDG and telomere extensions.

Sciwalk has provided a lot of good information and also made the peptide available to members here at an attractive price, much better than any of us could apparently find elsewhere. Many others here have also provided good information. You have provided nothing constructive or beneficial.

I have been taking the peptide, purchased from Sciwalk, for over a year. I have never found him to be dishonest or misleading. So, your comments and insinuations are completely out of line, IMHO, and I wish you would stop it.

Nobody here is accountable to you and you have no rights in demanding information about anything from anyone here. Please take your BS somewhere else. We don’t want it and we don’t need it. Your presence by your negative posts taint this forum and defeats its purposes.

I don’t pretend to speak for everyone else here and anyone that disagrees with what I am saying and/or my opinion of you may and will certainly speak up.

As for my involvement in the recent Group Buy of the peptide, I got involved because somebody had to and being retired and more than capable, I got involved in coordinating the group buy. I do not have to justify myself to you. You are not part of anything here except to try to pump up your image by tearing everyone else down. You certainly do not deserve any information regarding the group buy, you’re not a part of it.

Who are you to tell anyone here what to do or not do? You certainly have no credibility with me and many others here, perhaps all here.

BTW, you keep referring to “promoters” and “Epitalon Marketers” here. I have read ALL posts here, many repeatedly, and know of nobody that is “promoting” or “marketing” the peptide.

The only promoter/marketer that I am aware of is you, and you are marketing and promoting yourself for unknown reasons.

[solarfingers]

Authentic... We are all dealing with Genscript. The group buy was arranged through Genscript. This is well explained in the thread.

[Authentic]

Solarfingers either I'm completely confused or mistaken. Why is Dreamer talking about a different batch seemingly. Please explain it to me so I can better understand.

Are both you and Dreamer talking about the same batch and supplier?

[solarfingers]

Same supplier... different batch. I ordered mine directly and did not participate in the group buy at around the same time.

[pleb]

In science we have to work hard to overcome the consistency principle. If certain types of people make a decision they tend to stick with that decision even if it later is shown to be inherently flawed (such as adding wine - which is full of many enzymes and bacteria that will very likely break down a peptide, to the peptide solution, and justifying it by saying the peptide was already reconstituted as if somehow water is going to protect the peptide from the enzymes and bacteria in wine). In all published experiments of Epitalon, I have never seen anyone use a protocol like that. If people are trying to recreate the previous successes they really should recreate the protocols. By changing just one thing in a protocol it becomes and entirely new experiment (often with entirely different results).

These people will go to extreme lengths to make themselves and others feel like their original decision was the right one. It's an ego related activity. To admit that one is wrong is difficult for some people. The lengths people have gone to make their original decision seem "right" is truly amazing. Wait till you see the barrage that will come after this post....

The best way to get through to these people is to say "when you made your original decision based on the facts you had at the time. However now that you have learned many new facts, perhaps you would consider making a new decision, based on all the new facts that you have learned."

this entire post shows exactly your own flaws when you class all Chinese peptide companies as rubbish you are just as guilty as those you decry,

[Authentic]

Pleb you are taking very serious risks when you buy from Chinese peptide companies. You really should stick to first-world producers only. There are estimates that as much as 25% of pharmaceuticals sold in China are counterfeit.

http://www.cmpi.org/...s-and-china-new

[pleb]

my last post had nothing to do with Chinese peptides or otherwise it was about your observation that people get a certain mind set, which you condemn people for having, yet you yourself through your attitude show exactly that same mind set, as i mentioned the only peptides i have had problems with are from the USA supposedly made there so do i condemn every peptide manufacturer in the US as being rubbish and tell people not to trust american made peptides,

[Dreamer]

Data provided by Genscript is very likely true and reliable. The 98.8% HPLC purity mentioned above for the Chinese peptide I'd really like to see along with the M.S. if you have it. Would you mind posting that.

IUPAC Name: (4S)-4-[[(2S)-2-aminopropanoyl]amino]-5-[[(2S)-1-(carboxymethylamino)-4-hydroxy-1,4-dioxobutan-2-yl]amino]-5-oxopentanoic acid | CAS Registry Number: 307297-39-8
Synonyms: Epitalon, Epithalon, CID219042, LS-72251, Glycine, L-alanyl-L-alpha-glutamyl-L-alpha-aspartyl-, 307297-39-8

Molecular Formula:
C₁₄H₂₂N₄O₉
Molecular Weight:
390.345880 [g/mol]
H-Bond Donor:
7
H-Bond Acceptor:
10

InChIKey: HGHOBRRUMWJWCU-FXQIFTODSA-N

Pleb you are taking very serious risks when you buy from Chinese peptide companies. You really should stick to first-world producers only. There are estimates that as much as 25% of pharmaceuticals sold in China are counterfeit.

http://www.cmpi.org/...s-and-china-new

So, on one hand, after claiming that all labs in China are no good, you admit that the "Data provided by Genscript is very likely true and reliable." This is apparently an attempt to gain some credibility back from all you have lost.

But, then, you again say "Pleb you are taking very serious risks when you buy from Chinese peptide companies."

The only thing I get from all your posts is that you are trying to hold yourself out to be the resident expert, and you are denouncing all labs in China.

But then you admit that at least GenScript can be trusted if their QC/test data validates their product, which by extension, means that any lab in China or elsewhere can be trusted if their QC/test data validates their product.

Speaking for myself authentic, I would appreciate it if you would just take your BS somewhere else. In the next alternative, post only something that contributes something to the subject of this forum, Epitalon, and in the final alternative, don't post anything, which I find most attractive.

As for posting the QC/test data from GS on the group buy for your review, I won't do that. You are not entitled to the information since you are not part of the group buy. Besides, I am not interested in what you might have to say. You already said it "is very likely true and reliable."

Edited by Dreamer, 10 August 2013 - 11:36 PM.

[Authentic]

I am concerned that Sciwalk might be the same person involved in Biolumaresearch, an Epitalon marketing company based in Hong Kong.

[sciwalk]

I am concerned that Sciwalk might be the same person involved in Biolumaresearch, an Epitalon marketing company based in Hong Kong.

You, my friend, are a bore.
I have discussed this issue before, I am a manufacturing lab, I supply to many companies but I do not reveal or discuss, or promote my clients, that is their business, not mine. I don't even agree with some of the things that some of my clients may do, but, again, that is their business.
I have no idea why you are making such a crusade to personally attack me, I have no idea who you are or what it is that you think I have done too you to cause this but I would appreciate it very much if you would leave me alone.

Edited by sciwalk, 12 August 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[PWAIN]

Guys, he's a troll...don't feed the troll...

[Authentic]

Sciwalk I am not personally attacking you. You have a serious conflict of interest. I'll explain;

1) Sciwalk is the Thread Starter.
2) Sciwalk owns an Epitalon related company by his own admission.
3) Sciwalk makes statements about miraculous results by using Epitalon
4) Sciwalk encourages people to use Epitalon.

Here's the biggest problem though. If Sciwalk says "Epitalon didn't do anything for me" it hurts him financially (he loses money). If Sciwalk says "Epitalon works amazing wonders", than he makes more money. He has a bona-fide conflict and a financial incentive to tell everyone here that Epitalon works wonders.

His statement could be either true or false. However we are not supposed to accept his statements as that of a third-party tester. If HAV or SMITHX posted amazing results than we should give them a very high weight. If the owner of an Epitalon company comes on there and posts amazing results we have to be much more skeptical.

Sciwalk, are you the supplier to Genscript? I hope not, that would make your conflict on this forum much stronger.

Before you write anything about how I'm "slamming" him, please remember what the very definition of a conflict of interest is;

A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in another.
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent from the execution of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."^[1]

[sciwalk]

You know, we are right back where I started, telling you that you would know all this if you actually read through the thread. If you did you would know that I myself brought up the issue of conflict of interest and thus one of the big reasons why I stopped selling the peptide to individuals and stopped reporting all the time about my trial. I do my best not to be on here and have encouraged, more than anybody else, for others to post their results, good or bad. We have been all though the whole topic about this, I do believe even more than once. But what would you have me do when people directly ask me questions about what is going on with me, lie, not answer? Seems that is what you would want. My position is clear, everyone here knows it, except I guess for you or you think no ones else does so you think you are doing the world some big favor in trying to point out something they already know or can find out for themselves if they take the time to read through the thread like you obviously did not.

Show of hands, how many here already knew that I have interest in the Epitalon?
How many here already knew that I had concern about conflict of interest?

My focus and work is on Enzymes (Industrial Enzymes), amino acids, reagents and Agarose beads. These sales are in the hundreds of thousands. I have no idea what kind of money you think I have or potentially have gained from whatever few little sales of Epitalon there might be from this forum or why I should care?
This thread has been here for almost 2 years now. People have given their reports, some good, some bad, some indifferent. I had good results, and as I stated, those are only my results. If people ask me, I will tell them despite your comments.

This is the last time I will address your insults so go ahead and take your best shot after this. I have said my peace, I am done with you.

[solarfingers]

1) Sciwalk is the Thread Starter. True
2) Sciwalk bought into the company months after starting the thread.
3) Sciwalk stopped supplying to people in the thread.
4) Sciwalk encourages people to use Epitalon. I see no conflict here.

Your points are mute. If you only read the thread from the beginning you would know what is going on. You jumped in on the end and presume to know everything.

Authentic = pathetic troll.

[Authentic]

Sciwalk like I said above, I am not personally attacking you. I am stating that you have a serious conflict of interest. You said that you have many clients and you don't agree with everything they do.

Sciwalk still supplies people on this thread through his "many clients". That's the point you are missing. Whether you are buying from Genscript or Biolumaresearch or Epitalon.net or others you are very possibly buying his product and he knows this. He has a conflict of interest.

Do you think he makes more money or less if he states that Epitalon works wonders, cured his gray hair, removed his wrinkles etc.. ?

To Repeat because Solarfingers doesn't want to read this part;

Sciwalk, are you the supplier to Genscript? I hope not, that would make your conflict on this forum much stronger.

Before you write anything about how I'm "slamming" him, please remember what the very definition of a conflict of interest is;

A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in another.
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent from the execution of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."^[1]

[pleb]

Sciwalk I am not personally attacking you. You have a serious conflict of interest. I'll explain;

1) Sciwalk is the Thread Starter.
2) Sciwalk owns an Epitalon related company by his own admission.
3) Sciwalk makes statements about miraculous results by using Epitalon
4) Sciwalk encourages people to use Epitalon.

Here's the biggest problem though. If Sciwalk says "Epitalon didn't do anything for me" it hurts him financially (he loses money). If Sciwalk says "Epitalon works amazing wonders", than he makes more money. He has a bona-fide conflict and a financial incentive to tell everyone here that Epitalon works wonders.

His statement could be either true or false. However we are not supposed to accept his statements as that of a third-party tester. If HAV or SMITHX posted amazing results than we should give them a very high weight. If the owner of an Epitalon company comes on there and posts amazing results we have to be much more skeptical.

Sciwalk, are you the supplier to Genscript? I hope not, that would make your conflict on this forum much stronger.

Before you write anything about how I'm "slamming" him, please remember what the very definition of a conflict of interest is;

A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in another.
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent from the execution of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."^[1]

you arrogant egotistical *&^(%$£ we know what a conflict of interest is, you come on here trying to talk down to everyone as if your the only one with any kind of intelligence, and knowledge you really aught to try seeing a doctor or preferably a shrink, your really something else,,

[solarfingers]

Authentic, you have to be the most lame person on the planet. Genscript is a huge company in their own right. So done with you... I'm turning my back to the troll.

[Authentic]

Pleb, since you know what a conflict of interest is do you think that someone who owns an Epitalon producing company has a COI when they continually come on this forum and say how well it works?

Funny how noticing that makes me subject to childish posts by you and a few others.

Since you know so very well what a COI is, does Sciwalk meet the definition?

[Dreamer]

authentic said "Sciwalk like I said above, I am not personally attacking you. I am stating that you have a serious conflict of interest. You said that you have many clients and you don't agree with everything they do."

It appears authentic doesn't even know what a personal attack is. Of course he is personally attacking Sciwalk. Is it because Sciwalk is more knowledgeable and therefore a threat? I think so.

Perhaps if more members here would simply use the "Report" link at the bottom of each post and complain about authentic and what he is doing to this forum, they would revoke his posting privileges?

Now, that is something worth working towards, IMHO.

authentic has posted nothing that contributes to this forum, but has personally attacked others here, including me. I will continue to "Report" his offensive posts and hope others do as well. The more complaints we have, the better chance to eliminate the offensive one.

[pleb]

of course i and other people on here know what a conflict of interest is, for gods sake there are guys on here who are MD's and others with degree's up to PHD level
they also know enough to find a genuine supplier and havwe also read Khavinsons and other pub med reports on Epithalon (epitalon) and what it does, i suggest you do the same,

do you have OCD or any thing like that because your compulsion and replies would indicate you do have a problem in that regard,
you keep beating a dead horse and don't know when to stop,

Edited by pleb, 12 August 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[Authentic]

Dreamer I appreciate the fervor that you feel. Dreamer did you profit from the sale of Epitalon on this thread during one of the Group Buys?

Pleb I am not beating a dead horse but instead are drawing the readers attention to a conflict of interest.

[Dreamer]

It's amazing to me that someone that tries to appear to be so knowledgeable and intelligent doesn't understand and make the distinction between "conflict of interest" and POTENTIAL conflict of interest". Big difference there.

He also wants to appear to know all about Sciwalk's business. He doesn't.

Does anyone else here besides me just wish he would simply go away?

[mikela]

Dreamer I appreciate the fervor that you feel. Dreamer did you profit from the sale of Epitalon on this thread during one of the Group Buys?

Pleb I am not beating a dead horse but instead are drawing the readers attention to a conflict of interest.

Please do us all a favor and just disappear. You are truly non-value added in this thread.

[hav]

Sciwalk like I said above, I am not personally attacking you. I am stating that you have a serious conflict of interest. You said that you have many clients and you don't agree with everything they do.

Sciwalk still supplies people on this thread through his "many clients". That's the point you are missing. Whether you are buying from Genscript or Biolumaresearch or Epitalon.net or others you are very possibly buying his product and he knows this. He has a conflict of interest.

Do you think he makes more money or less if he states that Epitalon works wonders, cured his gray hair, removed his wrinkles etc.. ?

To Repeat because Solarfingers doesn't want to read this part;

Sciwalk, are you the supplier to Genscript? I hope not, that would make your conflict on this forum much stronger.

Before you write anything about how I'm "slamming" him, please remember what the very definition of a conflict of interest is;

A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in another.
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent from the execution of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."^[1]

You might want to consult a moderator on whether you are running afoul of the rules yourself. Like this one:

Section08 Advertising, promotions and commercial activity
...
© ImmInst seeks to limit surreptitious advertising where users who may have a financial stake in such matters contribute Content simply to increase product desirability or brand awareness. Such Content will be censored on the basis of suspicion alone. On occasion, 'innocent' Content may inadvertently be subjected to such censure. Users should be aware of this and are kindly asked to refrain from protest in these cases, as the common aim is to increase the quality of Content on the Site.

I think the preferred mechanism, in favor of endless inquiry or thread hijacking, when you suspect a conflict or violation, is to use the "Report" button and leave the decision up to the moderators.

Howard

[smithx]

To Authentic's point, I personally have not used epitalon because of the lack of independent studies verifying its effects. I also haven't used C60 olive oil, but am a bit more likely to try it.

For epitalon, we have only the studies of one lab: Khavinson's. Since his career is based in large part on the idea that this compound is important, he has an incentive to fake his data, and we know that fake data is a big problem in scientific papers. If even one other lab had verified Khavinson's results, I'd be much more likely to take epitalon. The fact that Khavinsonhas patents and sells the compound also gives him a conflict of interest: if he published negative results, he'd be undermining any potential sales.

Again, the results may be perfectly genuine, and the fact that other labs haven't published may be due to the patents, and it may all be perfectly above-board, but without independent verification it's not possible to be certain.

Beside's Khavison's results, we have anecdotal reports from people on this thread. I don't recall that anyone has tried to collate these reports and see if there really is a highly positive trend, as there seems to be with C60OO. The reports I remember reading here all seemed to fall under the potential placebo effect category. Also lacking are reports of members here testing with animals. This is likely due to the very high cost of the compound, but the anecdotal animal reports for C60OO lend some additional credence since animals are less likely to be affected by a placebo effect (although their owners may be, and olive oil on its own could be providing some benefit).

With regard to Sciwalk's conflict of interest or lack thereof, it's hard to say that there isn't a conflict. He does have an interest in a producer of the compound, and he does benefit financially from sales of the compound. There are also a limited number of producers of the compound. So by promoting it he may stand to benefit financially. That does meet the definition of a conflict of interest as far as I can see: it's the same conflict of interest Khavinson has.

Which again is not to say that Sciwalk is lying, fabricating data, or being at all dishonest. Like Khavinson, all his statements and results may be perfectly genuine. Even when there is a conflict of interest, that doesn't in itself prove any dishonesty or misdeed.

For me, there isn't a preponderance of evidence sufficient to make me try this compound. I still follow this thread (although with all the bickering I'm wondering why I bother), because I think there is a possibility that it could be an important or useful compound. But I haven't seen enough data to be convinced to try it yet.

I wonder if anyone here is interested in producing a matrix as was done for C60OO showing how many people reported which effects from this compound, what their dose and method of delivery was, etc. If we can start collecting some data, however anecdotal, it would go some way towards showing that epitalon is or is not a useful compound for life-extension or health-extension.

Edited by smithx, 12 August 2013 - 08:13 PM.