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Opposite Effects from Nootropics

nootropics piracetam noopept phenylpiracetam

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#1 DefaOmega

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:32 PM


Hello All. Here's some background information: I'm 25, Male, and relatively healthy. My interest in Nootropics stems from doing things in my past that have left me at times foggy in the head, and overall not nearly as quick witted as I use to be. I've just recently (<2 months ago) learned about Nootropics and their effects. After doing quite a bit of research I decided Noopept and Piracetam would be a good place to start. I later bought Phenylpiracetam and tried it out also.

My problem is that each of these, individually as well as in combination with each other, seem to have the exact opposite effect on me that other people report. Now I have heard of Piracetam not being effective for everyone, but not counter-effective. After a week of just Piracetam (4.8g 3x daily) use I found my head much foggier than usual. I would have quite a problem figuring out what word I wanted to use, or how to word something. I also found that my coordination was suffering. I was running into corners, tripping on things I was trying to step over, and making way more typpos than normal. I wasn't perfect before but I never tripped on things, and my typpos were somewhat rare.

I then decided to give Noopept a shot.. I should mention over the week that I was doing Noopept, I tried a vareity of doses and roa's. First, I tried 10-30mgs sublingually, then attack doses of 100mg sublingually, then 10-30mgs and 100mg doses snorted. Regardless of the amount done, or how it was done I never felt a difference. That being said, I did feel a slight difference from the Noopept itself. It made be dumb, for lack of a better term, but also very conversational. I wanted to talk to everyone, but lacked the verbal skills necessary to do so. I was essentially a caveman at that point, excited to talk to people but unable to form coherent sentences without excessive; Uhhhs, ummms, and buts.

Next I purchased ALCAR and decided what the hell, I'm going to do 4.8G's Piracetam 3x daily, 10-30mg Noopept 3x daily, and throw in 2G's of ALCAR in the mornings. By the end of that week I was a mess. I suppose it was anxiety I was feeling constantly. I've never been very anxious about anything, instead normally being a very laid back individual that takes things as they come. During this week however, the very though of saying "Good Morning" to my fellow co-workers in the morning, whom I've worked with for 3+ years, was a daunting task. I talked to almost no one and essentially became a recluse. My work suffered terribly, this started when I first started with the Piracetam, as I also lost the ability to focus on an individual thing, all motivation, and the thought processes neccessary for some of the work I do.

I then, for some reason I still don't understand, decided to buy 5G's of Phenylpiracetam, thinking, I suppose that this was the one that would work for me. Short story, it didn't. Slightly longer story, I took 100mg in the morning, followed the exact routine I've done for quite some time, and 2 hours later, while at work, I almost fell asleep. It didn't feel like I was crashing at all, just like my body suddenly realized that I completely forgot to sleep last night, which wasn't the case. I decided to drink an extra cup of coffee that day to reverse this tiredness, but the coffee did absolutely nothing for me, a very odd thing for me.

I then decided to the next day to do all four things together, ALCAR 2G's, Piracetam 4.8G's, Noopept 15mgs, and Phenylpiracetam 100mgs. The result was the exact same as doing just Phenylpiracetam. 2-2.5 hours later I had 0 energy and could think of nothing but sleeping.

Has anyone had or heard of anything like this from these substances? I know I'm a weird individual but all I can find is crazy positive reviews of all these substances. I've purchased all my Nootropics thus far, from NSN as I had an aweful experience with LiftMode. They have 3rd party COA's on their website so I'm pretty confident that I've recieved legitimate forms of these substances.

I'm considering purchasing Phenibut, and yes I know it's like crazy addictive. I'm not one that easily gives into addiction and don't intend on taking it more than once a week, more of a Friday Fun Day type of thing. I'm wondering if the same things that cause Nootropics to not work for me might also cause Phenibut to have negative or zero effects for me.

Sorry for the long post, this took me quite a while to write as I kept doing other things, not important things, just things. Let me know if anyone has questions. Thanks.

#2 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:31 AM

It reads like a classic troll post, but just in case you're serious, and in case somebody looking for info is reading it too, I'll still reply as if it were not.

You have been taking far too much of everything. What you need, rather than nootropics, is more patience. ;)

2g of ALCAR a pop would make most people anxious. Personally I take 250mg, sometimes 500mg, and get some extra energy, with no jitters. It's not like a magic bullet, but it works. And it's a lot cheaper, too...

Piracetam at 4.8 g is fine, but you only need one or two doses per day. 3 is overkill.

Noopept is certainly not intended to be snorted at 100mg a pop either. The manufacturer's instructions says 10mg twice daily, and that the first 8 days or so are an adjustment period.
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#3 DefaOmega

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:23 PM

Not a troll post by any means.

For the ALCAR dosing, the label saying 500mg's upto three times a day. Granted I was exceeding that but I had read a post here on Longecity about doses <2000mg being almost completely ineffective for anything meaningful; wakefulness, energy, mood etc. I'd be happy to lower my dose of it, the scoop that comes with it is 500mg so I'll just do half a scoop. When you say you take 250mg is that once a day?

I see now that I had misread or perhaps misinterpreted a post on here about dosing Piracetam at 4.8gs and assumed it was 3x daily not 2x daily. I'll drop the third dose.

I started using Noopept sublingually at 15-30 mgs, my bottle did not come with any sort of instructions. The only reason I snorted 15ish mgs and 100mgs was because I had read that it was a far better way to take it. I see now that it isn't true, but since sublingually wasn't giving any results I figured I'd try it. I have read quite frequently about attack doses of up to 100mgs and didn't think it would be a terrible idea to try them, honestly didn't seem any different at all from the 10-30mg range.

Any idea on the tiredness brought on by Phenylpiracetam? I'm going to try it again @ 100mgs. I had considered trying upto 300mgs instead as I've heard a good range is 100-300mgs but since I apparently have been taking too much of everything I stick with the low end this time.

Thanks.
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#4 nutropia

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 02:08 PM

I can vouch for not only Piracetam, but for just about any substance that directly or indirectly enhances acetylcholine having a terrible effect on me, almost identical to what you describe. I have observed this over the course of several years, with several supplements and dosing schemes. For me it is as if any substance that influences Acetylcholine has the same effect that one would get from taking too much Choline, significant muscle tension w/headache, slight nausea, terrible brain fog, depression, etc. I actually try to avoid all foods that contain Lecithin as even a small amount triggers the response in me. It could certainly be my unique biochemistry, but I have seen posts on other forums where people seem to have similar sensitivities. I'm wondering whether Choline/Lecithin would produce similar negative effects in you. If they did it might point towards some sort of sensitivity or uniqueness with your Acetylcholine or other related systems that don't handle these substances well. My 2 cents, please post back with any further experimenting hat you do as I'd be very interested in your results.
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#5 DefaOmega

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:50 PM

I honestly don't know anything about Acetylcholine or Choline. I've heard supplementing Choline can prevent headaches caused by taking Piracetam. I do not take a Choline supplement, though I do eat quite a few eggs, and eating eggs alone has never caused me any problems like I've experienced from the Nootropics. I've also taken Soy Lecithin on multiple occasions without problem.

This morning I took 100mgs of Phenylpiracetam without any other substance except 2 eggs for breakfast, I'm at about 2 hours later and can feel tiredness creeping up on me. I just drank a cup of coffee hoping to counter the drowsiness. I'm sure within half an hour I will again be wishing I could leave work and sleep.

It's probably also worth noting that since starting nootropics in general I've started dreaming again. The dreams are vivid, though as soon as I wake up I cannot recall anything about them. I also wake up feeling as if I haven't really slept, though the feeling passes after an hour or so.

#6 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:56 PM

I am also sensitive to choline; however, piracetam and ALCAR still work well for me provided I take smaller doses. I get especially good synergy from piracetam when I take it with fish oil, ginkgo biloba and quality green tea.

But, continuing on the choline sensitive track, aniracetam is unreliable for me, first it spaces me out, then it gives me tunnel vision focus and that's followed by an energy crash. Noopept made me irritable, even aggressive.

Alpha GPC and lecithin supplementation were horrible; they induce muscle stiffness (sometimes w headache) and depression.

#7 DefaOmega

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:16 PM

Godof Smallthings: Do you take ALCAR at doses of 250mg 3x daily, or is it just a single morning dose?

#8 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:53 AM

Usually just one dose per day. Since I know from experience that my choline system is sensitive, I don't overdo anything that can mess with it.

That's not to say that you will thrive on the exact same dose as I do. You need to patiently try out different doses to see what works. Use one nootropic at a time to suss out which one does what for you. Then when you have a fair idea, you can add another one on top.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 12 September 2013 - 03:55 AM.

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#9 Heh

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:51 PM

Try Niacin (3g instant release, with 3g Vitamin C, and 1g Vitamin B5). You'll get a flush you'll never forget. I believe the combination works on GABA, improves memory, helps with anxiety, depression, and maybe even psychosis, and lowers cholesterol.

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#10 DefaOmega

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:34 PM

Over the past 5 days I've been taking Noopept 2x daily at 10-15mgs and ALCAR once daily at 500mgs. The effects have continued to be only negative. I have trouble constantly remembering things that happen only moments ago, and find myself making lots of mistakes in almost everything I do. My hand-eye coordination seems to be suffering (I've knocked a glass over while trying to pick it up on several occasions, constantly misspell things, and trip on things) After dropping Piracetam from my daily routine some of these symptoms improved and I will be dropping both ALCAR and Noopept in hopes that I can return to my normal self with time.

I have taken Phenylpiracetam on 4 seperate occasions now, both with other Nootropics and by itself and in doses of 100mg and 300mg (sublingual administration) and have found that it does nothing except put me to sleep/ make me want to sleep. I will also be completely discontinuing my use of it, which is a shame since I still have over 9 grams of it.

I have no idea why Nootropics don't work for me, and indeed seem to have the complete opposite effect on me that they do some other people. I'm sure my source is good as the include a third-party COA that verifies >99% purity. I eat a diet that is high in choline and as such do not supplement with more, I can't imagine I need more.

If anyone has any idea why I'm having this reaction to them, or any ideas as to what I might try to get a different reaction I'd be open to trying it. As it is now though Nootropics are nothing but a failed experiment for me.

Thanks





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