591 replies to this topic

[Advocatus Diaboli]

@Kevinsan you "tried them all". Have you documented beneficial effects, such as by comparing consecutive CAC tests or carotid artery echoes, etc.? And, if so, what % decrease in plaque was obtained?

[Kevinsan]

For me its more preventative medicine. Good blood flow longer life theory. I'll let the good people here do the quant. Have fun.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

@Kevinsan, EDTA and cyclodextrin have been mentioned previously in this thread (but not telhalose that I can find--thanks). What we don't have a lot of is personal reports (as opposed to journal reports, say) of objective measures of benefits obtained by particular strategies.
 

Kevinsan, you write: "For me its more preventative medicine. Good blood flow longer life theory. I'll let the good people here do the quant. Have fun."

 

You have used the 3 compounds listed in your post #240 as "preventative medicine" and yet, apparently, can't (will not?) cite objective results which might indicate that those compounds actually have been effective in decreasing arterial plaque for you?

 

 

[Kevinsan]

You are correct AD. I'm just toying with the tech and offering a novel mode of administration. At 55 my BP is a dangerous 110 without meds. Daily injections are far from appealing, and I thought liposomal delivery might be a better option. CD and trehalose are broken down in the human gut, but not in mice. So a new delivery system is now available. Does it work? Who knows. Perhaps other members who need an inexpensive method for clearing the arteries might be willing to provide the metrics.

 

Currently CD is used to dissolve cholesterol crystals in in children. The CD must be injected into the brain as it will not cross the BBB. So my question to all, can lipsomal delivery of CD cross the blood brain barrier? According to one of the manufactures of liposomal edta, the answer is yes. Liposomal drug delivery will cross the BBB.

 

As both the sugars trigger autography, perhaps crossing the BBB is not that important. Once these foam cells are rehabilitated they should seek out plaque everywhere, including the brain.

 

Like I said, I just play around. But the tech and research is sound and it is a plausible solution to arterial plaque buildup. I've reached my limit for posts today. See you tomorrow.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

@Kevinsan, that's an excellent BP number: 110--assuming that it's a resting systolic value, hah,hah.

 

You wrote: "Perhaps other members who need an inexpensive method for clearing the arteries might be willing to provide the metrics.".

 

I, for one, have some baseline NMR LipoProfife, RMR, VO2 max, and DEXA measurements that might be helpful to me in assessing potential effects of one or more of your post #240 compounds should I try them.

 

Of course I, like many, take a multitude of supplements and am constantly changing diet and exercise protocols (for example, I recently started Turnbuckle's protocol found here), however, if I notice some radical change in one or more of the metrics then it'll be time for me to start digging deeper into possible causes.

 

This article (Getting into the brain: liposome-based strategies for effective drug delivery across the blood–brain barrier) is an interesting read and one tid-bit from it is:

 

"Intranasal delivery was also used as a successful approach for delivery of liposomes containing quercetin, which has antioxidant properties."

 

Quercetin has been mentioned in this thread as part of a protocol for attacking arterial plaque. And, it seems that there are studies out there that suggest that cyclodextrin, in addition to helping reduce arterial plaque, may also be a beneficial treatment for Alzheimer's disease (a mouse model).

 

Trehalose, in addition to possible beneficial effects for atherosclerosis, may also be a beneficial treatment for Alzheimer's disease (mouse study).

 

Possibly killing 2 birds with one stone, so to speak, with some of these agents.

 

 

[Kevinsan]

Funny thing AD. The chemical used to wrap drugs for intranasal delivery is the sugar 2-hydroxypropyl-Beta-cyclodextrin. The same sugar we are discussing. So there is no need to wrap the sugar, just add water, filter and inhale.  You will need a sterile syringe filter disc and there are plenty of tutorials on Youtube. Can you get enough in the brain to dissolve the cholesterol crystals? Not sure. I cannot post links so here is an abstract and patent illustrating the nasal pathway tech:

 

Cyclodextrins in nasal drug delivery

doi.org/10.1016/S0169-409X(98)00054-4

 

Nasal drug delivery is an attractive approach for the systemic delivery of high potency drugs with a low oral bioavailability due to extensive gastrointestinal breakdown and high hepatic first-pass effect. For lipophilic drugs nasal delivery is possible if they can be dissolved in the dosage form. Peptide and protein drugs often have a low nasal bioavailability because of their large size and hydrophilicity, resulting in poor transport properties across the nasal mucosa. Cyclodextrins are used to improve the nasal absorption of these drugs by increasing their aqueous solubility and/or by enhancing their nasal absorption. With several cyclodextrins very efficient nasal drug absorption has been reported, but also large interspecies differences have been found. Studies concerning the safety of cyclodextrins in nasal drug formulations demonstrate the non-toxicity of the cyclodextrins and also clinical data show no adverse effects. Therefore, some cyclodextrins can be expected to become effective and safe excipients in nasal drug delivery.

 

And a patent:

 

Nasal delivery of cyclodextrin complexes of anti-inflammatory steroids
US 20060045850 A1

 

Aqueous, anti-inflammatory steroid compositions in solution form suitable for nasal administration and having a reduced stinging sensation are provided as well as a method for treating inflammation of the nasal mucosa by intranasal administration of anti-inflammatory steroid compositions. These solution compositions may result in enhanced nasal bio-availability. The anti-inflammatory steroid composition suitable for intranasal administration includes an anti-inflammatory steroid in an amount of from about 0.0001% to about 2.0% (w/v); a cyclodextrin in an amount of from about 0.1% to about 20% (w/v); an alcohol co-solvent in an amount of from about 0.2% to about 35% (w/v); a crystallization inhibitor where required, an effective amount of an antimicrobial preservative; an effective amount of an antioxidant; an effective amount of a chelating agent; water; and a pH adjusting agent sufficient to adjust the pH of the composition to from about 4 to about 7.

 

Apparently people want to snort their testosterone.

 

[mikey]

 

Funny thing AD. The chemical used to wrap drugs for intranasal delivery is the sugar 2-hydroxypropyl-Beta-cyclodextrin. The same sugar we are discussing. So there is no need to wrap the sugar, just add water, filter and inhale.  You will need a sterile syringe filter disc and there are plenty of tutorials on Youtube. Can you get enough in the brain to dissolve the cholesterol crystals? Not sure. I cannot post links so here is an abstract and patent illustrating the nasal pathway tech:

 

Cyclodextrins in nasal drug delivery

doi.org/10.1016/S0169-409X(98)00054-4

 

Nasal drug delivery is an attractive approach for the systemic delivery of high potency drugs with a low oral bioavailability due to extensive gastrointestinal breakdown and high hepatic first-pass effect. For lipophilic drugs nasal delivery is possible if they can be dissolved in the dosage form. Peptide and protein drugs often have a low nasal bioavailability because of their large size and hydrophilicity, resulting in poor transport properties across the nasal mucosa. Cyclodextrins are used to improve the nasal absorption of these drugs by increasing their aqueous solubility and/or by enhancing their nasal absorption. With several cyclodextrins very efficient nasal drug absorption has been reported, but also large interspecies differences have been found. Studies concerning the safety of cyclodextrins in nasal drug formulations demonstrate the non-toxicity of the cyclodextrins and also clinical data show no adverse effects. Therefore, some cyclodextrins can be expected to become effective and safe excipients in nasal drug delivery.

 

And a patent:

 

Nasal delivery of cyclodextrin complexes of anti-inflammatory steroids
US 20060045850 A1

 

Aqueous, anti-inflammatory steroid compositions in solution form suitable for nasal administration and having a reduced stinging sensation are provided as well as a method for treating inflammation of the nasal mucosa by intranasal administration of anti-inflammatory steroid compositions. These solution compositions may result in enhanced nasal bio-availability. The anti-inflammatory steroid composition suitable for intranasal administration includes an anti-inflammatory steroid in an amount of from about 0.0001% to about 2.0% (w/v); a cyclodextrin in an amount of from about 0.1% to about 20% (w/v); an alcohol co-solvent in an amount of from about 0.2% to about 35% (w/v); a crystallization inhibitor where required, an effective amount of an antimicrobial preservative; an effective amount of an antioxidant; an effective amount of a chelating agent; water; and a pH adjusting agent sufficient to adjust the pH of the composition to from about 4 to about 7.

 

Apparently people want to snort their testosterone.

 

 

Testosterone is not an anti-inflammatory steroid.

 

Note that the distinction of "types" of steroids is commonly misunderstood and certainly not unusual in my experience studying steroids, since about 1990.

 

The anti-inflammatory steroids are corticosteroids, such as cortisol, which are antioxidants and anti-inflammatory and break tissues down to release energy in the "fight of flight" response. "A tiger is chasing me, I must run as fast as possible" shuts down numerous body systems, including immune response, to liberate as much energy as possible to escape/survive the danger/stress.

 

Corticosteroids shrink inflamed tissue, break it down, liberating energy stores while suppressing immune response/production of proliferative hormones, such as testosterone, and give the body as much support as possible to adapt to/survive the immediate stress that is assaulting. 

 

Then we have their "opposing" class of steroids, the anabolic steroids, such as testosterone, which build specific tissues, such as contractile protein, aka muscle tissue, and engage metabolism in building many things, such as immune cells, muscle, bone, etc.... It seems that you are confusing one with the other. 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

@Kevinsan, I could tolerate any stinging without anti-inflammatory agents if CD, etc. are effective in reducing arterial plaque. I guess one would need to be careful and not let some naegleria fowleri work its way to the brain from a contaminate syringe! 

 

mikey states in post #247: "Testosterone is not an anti-inflammatory steroid."

 

Sample study 1

"On the other hand, observational and interventional studies suggest that T supplementation reduces inflammatory markers in both young and old hypogonadal men."

"This study, together with previous observations, suggests that a close relationship exists between the development of a pro-inflammatory state and the decline in T levels, two trends that are often observed in aging men."

 "We advocate the notion that changes in inflammatory markers and T in aging men are causally linked. However, longitudinal and interventional studies are needed to confirm that T can be used therapeutically, based on its anti-inflammatory properties."

 

Sample study 2

"Androgens are known to exert anti-inflammatory effects but their impact on mast cells (MCs) remains to be determined."

Sample study 3

"Decreased testosterone production in men with rheumatoid arthritis is a common finding (Stafford et al 2000), and it is now generally recognized that androgens have the capacity to suppress both the hormonal and cellular immune response and so act as one of the body’s natural anti-inflammatory agents (Cutolo et al 2002)."

"This known anti-inflammatory action of testosterone has led to studying the effect of testosterone therapy in men with rheumatoid disease."

 

Your statement, mikey, and the above studies seem contradictory. Do you have some cites that will substantiate your position?

[Kevinsan]

People are using HPBCD for intranasal testosterone delivery as well. Here is the first google search item for "cyclodextrin intranasal testosterone"

 

juicedmuscle.com/jmblog/content/homebrewing-beta-cyclodextrins

 

Plenty of patents with a multitude of drugs for delivery. I just pulled the first one that came up on the search. Sorry for the confusion.

[pamojja]

Coronary Calcification and CAC with expert Professor Matthew J. Budoff MD FAAC

 

[RWhigham]

There is a sale on E-beam heart scans (a CAC score) through Dec 31 2017 in Boulder, CO (for $195.00). Not many E-beam machines exist. Multipurpose CT scanners have prevailed  and radiation dose be dammed--you'll never be able to prove where you got that cancer!

 

FAQ page from above: "People should be aware of the trend  to use higher radiation spiral or helical CT scanners when imaging the heart.  These scanners typically have 3 times the radiation exposure and 1/3 the accuracy of an EBT scanner."

 

Cardiologists have always disparaged CAC scans. A cath-lab procedure is far more expensive and profitable.  But since newer CT machines can do heart scans, CT salesmen have got hospitals promoting them to keep their machines busy. 

[Benko]

There is a sale on E-beam heart scans (a CAC score) through Dec 31 2017 in Boulder, CO (for $195.00). Not many E-beam machines exist. Multipurpose CT scanners have prevailed  and radiation dose be dammed--you'll never be able to prove where you got that cancer!

 

FAQ page from above: "People should be aware of the trend  to use higher radiation spiral or helical CT scanners when imaging the heart.  These scanners typically have 3 times the radiation exposure and 1/3 the accuracy of an EBT scanner."

 

Cardiologists have always disparaged CAC scans. A cath-lab procedure is far more expensive and profitable.  But since newer CT machines can do heart scans, CT salesmen have got hospitals promoting them to keep their machines busy. 

 

 

"But since newer CT machines can do heart scans, CT salesmen have got hospitals promoting them to keep their machines busy." 

 

So you think CT sales people have any influence on what and how many of any kind of CT scans get ordered?  What are you basing this on?

[RWhigham]

Not many E-beam machines exist. Multipurpose CT scanners have prevailed  and radiation dose be dammed--you'll never be able to prove where you got that cancer!

 

Protect your DNA from CT Scans and X-rays : Life Extension Magazine, Aug 2010 

 

"Published scientific studies document that these excessive amounts of radiation will result in catastrophic numbers of new cancers due to DNA mutation." Ref  Ref  Ref

 

 "While CT scans provide important diagnostic information that can save lives, their growing frequency is putting an enormous population at risk for a range of lethal cancers."

 

" There are now approximately 70 million CT scans performed every year, up from a mere 3 million in 1980"

Edited by RWhigham, 16 August 2017 - 04:25 PM.

[albedo]

 

Not many E-beam machines exist. Multipurpose CT scanners have prevailed  and radiation dose be dammed--you'll never be able to prove where you got that cancer!

 

Protect your DNA from CT Scans and X-rays : Life Extension Magazine, Aug 2010 

 

"Published scientific studies document that these excessive amounts of radiation will result in catastrophic numbers of new cancers due to DNA mutation." Ref  Ref  Ref

 

 "While CT scans provide important diagnostic information that can save lives, their growing frequency is putting an enormous population at risk for a range of lethal cancers."

 

" There are now approximately 70 million CT scans performed every year, up from a mere 3 million in 1980"

 

Thank you. There is also a more recent (Dec 2015) article from LEF:

 

Cancer Risks Of CT Scans

http://www.lifeexten...t-scans/page-01

 

[Benko]

From someone who interprets CT scans for a living:

 

1.  CT salesman have zero influence into how many CT scan are ordered.

 

2.  The culture of medicine has irreversibly changed (from legal risks among other things) and many CT scans are ordered that are unnecessary.  If your doctor orders a CT scan for you, ask them why they are ordering it and exactly how it will change how they treat you.  Be tactful.

 

3.  The issue of radiation dose reduction in medicine has become a big thing in perhaps last 5 years or so and e.g. all our CT protocols were revised several years ago to minimize radiation.  We have a CT scanner which uses newer software which allows lower doses of radiation, etc. If you require a CT scan you might ask the technologist if they are using all the settings, etc they can to reduce the dose.

 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Regarding the radiation dose of CAC scans, you should keep things in perspective. 

 

A CAC scan is typically 1.5 - 3.0 mSv (milliSeverts).  Typical natural background radiation levels are around 3 mSv per year, so that's like a doubling of your normal background radiation level as an event that you might exposure yourself to a handful of times in your life.  However, there are *many* areas of the planet where people are getting 6 - 10 mSv per year, year in year out their entire lives due to the natural radioactivity of the rocks in their area.  And there are areas where people are exposed to significantly greater natural radioactivity.  Ramsar Iran is the area with the highest naturally occurring background radiation currently known where some residents are getting 130+ mSv per year.  Studies are underway currently to try to understand the health effects of those levels of radioactivity on the local residents.

 

And as I've also noted before, airline crews flying high latitude routes can also potentially see additional exposures of 5 - 7 mSv per year and many will fly these routes for decades.

 

So, two or three CAC scans in a lifetime, I doubt you could even quantify an increased risk of cancer from that dose.  And the good news is that even those doses are headed downward.  There has been work on "sub milliSevert" CAC scans and I suspect we'll see these available in a few years.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 18 August 2017 - 02:00 AM.

[Benko]

If you want something really interesting, google radiation hormesis.  High doses of radiation are harmful, but what if extrapolating that harm to low dose doesn't work at ll?  

 

Basic principle: stress the body and it gets stronger.  

 

--aerobic exercise/strength training

--fasting

--fruits and veggies (google fruits and vegetables are trying to kill you)  and...

--low level radiation?  Maybe.

 

http://blogs.discove...n/#.WZZT_pOGNT0

 

 

Edited by Benko, 18 August 2017 - 02:46 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Indeed, some radiation very well may be good for you.

 

And the linear no threshold model currently used is almost certainly wrong and overestimates risks for the very small radiation doses we are talking about here.

 

 

 

[albedo]

This study makes a good case showing that CAC=0 might reclassify "...approximately one-half of candidates as not eligible for statin therapy." I wonder about my CAC=3 at 51 and 56 (same machine and setting). Now 62 and in agreement with my MD after following up the historic of my labs I do not take statins though (but do supplement with red yeast rice though). Mhhh...

 

Nasir K, Bittencourt MS, Blaha MJ, et al. Implications of Coronary Artery Calcium Testing Among Statin Candidates According to American College of Cardiology/American Heart Association Cholesterol Management Guidelines: MESA (Multi-Ethnic Study of Atherosclerosis). J Am Coll Cardiol. 2015;66(15):1657-68.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26449135

 

 

[albedo]

Keeping researching a bit on CAC score predictive value I pop into this video by Ivor Cummins (sorry if I overlooked it in this thred already). It gives a nice and understandable overview of cholesterol, CVD and insulin resistance with great graphics. I liked particularly the statement (min. 28:17) of "calcium sees the disease process itself" which gives the CAC its powerful predictive value.

 

 CAC.PNG   710KB   0 downloads

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=UZoQiDaWnuE

 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Anyone hear any updates on any of the mainstream medical approaches being researched to reverse atherosclerosis?  I seem to recall that there were a couple of labs working on coaxing the immune system into attacking arterial plaques.  Haven't heard anything out of those groups in a while.

 

 

 

[RWhigham]

I have a small amount of coronary artery calcium which showed up in an E-beam scan 2.25 years ago.

A new scan with the same machine shows (within the accuracy of the machine) the calcification is unchanged. 

 

I spent the intervening 2.25 yr trying to reverse it with high vit-K  (K1, MK4, and MK7) and other supplements + a low carb, moderate protein, high fat diet, It didn't work. I did not measurably eliminate any calcified plaque. However it did not increase significantly.

 

My latest lipid test shows this result from my diet and supplements:

 

Triglycerides  71  mg/dL   -  triglycerides reflect the amount of carbs in a diet.

HDL               72  mg/dL   -  increased from 40 to 72.  This may be a combination of supplements and diet.

LDL calc      145  mg/dL   -  higher LDL is very common on a low carb diet.  It's importance is controversial--perhaps it "depends on the cargo not the boats".

 

 HDL is said to be genetically determined. This shows otherwise.

(The LDL above is calculated with the Iranian formula to correct for low triglycerides. LDL calculated with the Friedewald equation would be 160}.

 

Regarding a Low Carb Diet --  The type of fat in a low carb diet is key. There are good fats, bad fats, and very bad fats. Carbohydrates are all metabolized about the same. Proteins are all metabolized about the same. But fats are complicated with hundreds of different variations and differences in metabolism and differences in effects on health

Edited by RWhigham, 24 August 2017 - 05:55 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

RWhigham -

 

 

If your plaques didn't grow significantly then what you did did work.  The normal progression is for these things to grow 20 - 30% per year depending on which studies you look at.  It's very difficult to reduce a CAC score and only rarely happens.

 

The belief is that if you can dramatically slow or halt the progression of increasing CAC scores you dramatically decrease the chances of a heart attack.  You should be pleased with what you've done.  Would you mind saying what your two CAC scores were?

 

 

If your plaques didn't grow significantly then what you did did work.  The normal progression is for these things to grow 20 - 30% per year depending on which studies you look at.  It's very difficult to reduce a CAC score and only rarely happens.

[RWhigham]

 

 

 Would you mind saying what your two CAC scores were?

 

Agatston before  6.02,  now 6.89

Calcium Volume before 9.85  now 10.42, showing an increase of 2%/yr over the 2.25 year span.

 

I believe the 3 decimal accuracy is not justified given the repeatability reported on the web for these machines,  I think you can only say with 95% certainty that my Agatston score wes  7 +/- 5 both times. The reports included pictures with a single tiny speck of white in the same spot so I know it's not gone.

Edited by RWhigham, 24 August 2017 - 07:57 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

I envy your CAC score.  I'm at 64!

 

I would sleep easy at night with that score, especially given the slow increase you're seeing.  You'll likely die of something besides heart disease.

 

 

 

 

[pamojja]

Calcium Volume before 9.85  now 10.42, showing an increase of 2%/yr over the 2.25 year span.

Agatston before  6.02,  now 6.89

 

Congratulations. Really well done!

[Evan Yang]

This paper was referenced by life extension magazine sometime ago. GliSODin is effective in controlling the thickness of the carotid artery intima and media layer

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17441415

[Daniel Cooper]

This paper was referenced by life extension magazine sometime ago. GliSODin is effective in controlling the thickness of the carotid artery intima and media layer

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17441415

 

Here's the full text of that article above.

 

The question is, does carotid artery intima and media layer thickness correspond to atherosclerosis?  I'd like to think it does and I can certainly see the reasoning that it may, but I wish we knew the answer to that with more certainty.

 

 GliSODin, a vegetal sod with gliadin, as preventative agent vs. atherosclerosis, as confirmed with carotid ultrasound-B imaging.pdf   40.77KB   5 downloads

[zorba990]

I have a small amount of coronary artery calcium which showed up in an E-beam scan 2.25 years ago.
A new scan with the same machine shows (within the accuracy of the machine) the calcification is unchanged.

I spent the intervening 2.25 yr trying to reverse it with high vit-K (K1, MK4, and MK7) and other supplements + a low carb, moderate protein, high fat diet, It didn't work. I did not measurably eliminate any calcified plaque. However it did not increase significantly.

My latest lipid test shows this result from my diet and supplements:

Triglycerides 71 mg/dL - triglycerides reflect the amount of carbs in a diet.
HDL 72 mg/dL - increased from 40 to 72. This may be a combination of supplements and diet.
LDL calc 145 mg/dL - higher LDL is very common on a low carb diet. It's importance is controversial--perhaps it "depends on the cargo not the boats".

HDL is said to be genetically determined. This shows otherwise.
(The LDL above is calculated with the Iranian formula to correct for low triglycerides. LDL calculated with the Friedewald equation would be 160}.

Regarding a Low Carb Diet -- The type of fat in a low carb diet is key. There are good fats, bad fats, and very bad fats. Carbohydrates are all metabolized about the same. Proteins are all metabolized about the same. But fats are complicated with hundreds of different variations and differences in metabolism and differences in effects on health

What were your k2 doses? Did you try chondroitin?
I've posted this before but what are your thoughts on:

https://www.lewrockw...ease-naturally/

"Dr. Morrison provided compelling evidence in the 1960s that heart and blood vessel disease could be reversed and prevented with natural molecules, particularly chondroitin sulfate. This was over 20 years prior to the advent of the first cholesterol-reducing statin drug, Mevacor (1987).

Dr. Morrison writes that his ideas involving heart disease went back as far as 1942. He first began is his research using natural molecules to heal damaged hearts and arteries.

Dr. Morrison’s research was published in no less than 8 different medical journals. He began his studies in the 1940s, working with choline, a natural component of lecithin.

Here are the results (below) of an early study published in the American Heart Journal. Lecithin was later to become an important component in Dr. Morrison’s Heart Saver Program. (Dr. Morrison’s book for the lay public by this title can still be purchased.)

Comparison of Survival Rates: Choline (Lecithin) Patients with coronary thrombosis (blood clots in the heart) after 3 years 115 patients Deaths with choline 115 patients Deaths without choline 14 35 Source: American Heart Journal, July—August, p. 729, 1949

He later conceived of the idea that gelatinous material, then known as mucopolysaccharides, today known as glycosaminoglycans, could heal damaged hearts and arteries. His work involved chondroitin sulfate, a molecule that is a normal component of the connective tissue in the body. Dr. Morrison calls it "the glue of life."

He noted that chondroitin is the "coronary artery’s first line of defense against invasion by foreign substances," such as cholesterol, bacteria and tumor cells. Chondroitin contributes to the elasticity of the blood vessels.

In cross section photos of coronary arteries, Dr. Morrison showed what a coronary artery looked in when an animal was fed a high-fat/cholesterol diet (left), revealing almost complete obstruction of the artery, and then when chondroitin sulfate was added to animal diets. The artery appears normal (right)."

[RWhigham]

What were your k2 doses? Did you try chondroitin?

I've posted this before but what are your thoughts on:

https://www.lewrockw...ease-naturally/

"Dr. Morrison provided compelling evidence in the 1960s that heart and blood vessel disease could be reversed and prevented with natural molecules, particularly chondroitin sulfate.Z

 

Koncentrated-K   K1 5 mg, MK4 25 mg, MK7 500 mcg , and astaxanthin 2 mg

I also take the supporting vitamins  D3 1/4 mg (10,000 IU) and Vit-A (retinol) 3 g (10,000 IU) MWF (9g/wk) and recently added 4 mg astaxanthin t.i.d. (3x/d)

 

Not all chondroitin sulfates are equal. I'm not sure the cheap chemical commonly available today works the same as the natural extracts used by Dr Morrison. I recently added an expensive natural extract for chondroitin sulfate at 300 mg t.i.d. but I did not take this for most of the last 2 years.

 

Going forward, I have added 200 mg of OPC grape seed extract at bedtime  See Clinical effects of grape seed proanthocyanidin extract  A human ultrasound study of carotid intima-media thickness (CIMT) and carotid plaques.Over a period of 2 years the plaques and average CIMT steadily decreased in the OPC grape seed group, but steadily increased in the control group.

 

Most grape seed products in the market are not good  OPC grape seed extract. Currently I'm taking Tom Andre's product. I may add the "Terry Naturally" product in the future. 

 

OPC grape seed extract also increases NAD+

• High quality OPC grape seed extract boosts NAD+  Dietary proanthocyanidins boost hepatic NAD+
• NAMPT is the rate limiting enzyme for boosting NAD+ (through the salvage pathway NAM -> NAD+)  NAD+ and Sirtuins in Aging and Disease
• NAMPT and NAD+ are mostly produced at night  Circadian control of the NAD+ salvage pathway by CLOCK-SIRT1

So,  I take OPC grape seed extract at bedtime so it can increase NAMPT and NAD+ while I sleep.

 

Edited by RWhigham, 26 August 2017 - 05:24 AM.