77 replies to this topic

[Xenix]

I'm currently trying an experimental neuropeptide called FGL (FG Loop). It's a "neural cell adhesion molecule (NCAM)-derived fibroblast growth factor receptor (FGFR) agonist"
http://www.funakoshi.../FGLnoprice.pdf

They report that FGL treatment stimulates activity-dependent delivery of glutamate receptors to synapses, leading to a long-term enhancement of synaptic transmission...
Importantly, enhanced synaptic transmission does not occur spontaneously after FGL treatment. Instead, the peptide seems to facilitate long-term potentiation (LTP) in response to synaptic activity. In FGL-treated hippocampal slices, electrical stimulation induced LTP nearly twice as strongly as in untreated slices, and inhibiting PKC prevented this effect. Furthermore, when the authors blocked NMDA receptors, which are crucial for LTP, FGL treatment no longer pumped up AMPA receptor delivery. Esteban notes that this activity dependence is critical for a cognitive enhancer. If the peptide indiscriminately increased synaptic transmission, it might overexcite neurons and lead to epilepsy, he said. But by heightening synaptic plasticity only in response to activity, the peptide helps the animal encode information more easily, leading to better memory.

http://www.alzforum.org/new/detail.asp?id=3075

Studies on FGL suggest that FGL improves the brain's ability to modify brain cell connections; and that neurons treated with FGL show that they had higher levels of the receptor AMPA - critical for modifying synapses.

So far (~10 days) I am seeing some pretty amazing results. I'm taking 250mcg x 2 daily. It may sound outlandish, but I do feel like my brain is becoming more 'plastic': learning seems easier, and I am experiencing a definite lift of mood. It does have to be injected under body fat (like Cerebrolysin), however.

I've been told by a company who has conducted their own "in-house" studies that receptor down-regulation and tolerance is not an issue.

If anyone is looking for a source, you can find it online. I'd prefer not to directly link anyone on this thread, but if you're having trouble finding it you can PM me.

[h2o]

Hi Xenix, Do you have any updates about this substance? How long have you taken it for now?

[AuralAnomaly]

Wow this is incredible. This is the most effective most thoroughly researched nootropic I've come across. It's almost embarrassing that it's taken us this long to catch on. We must start a group buy immediately!

These papers in particulars got me all wet:
http://www.plosbiolo...al.pbio.1001262
http://learnmem.cshl...t/18/5/306.long
http://www.jneurosci...7/4197.full.pdf

Edit: some may be put off by the OP's mention of daily subQ injections, not to worry as above studies also demonstrate long lasting effect from single doses, as well efficacy with intranasal administration

Edited by AuralAnomaly, 21 October 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

The problem here is that these guys are peptides that are beyond the means of the average mortal. If an orally active compound with a similar profile of action can be found then that's a big win!

[lourdaud]

The problem here is that these guys are peptides that are beyond the means of the average mortal. If an orally active compound with a similar profile of action can be found then that's a big win!

How much is it??

[Reformed-Redan]

The problem here is that these guys are peptides that are beyond the means of the average mortal. If an orally active compound with a similar profile of action can be found then that's a big win!

How much is it??

Don't know. Probably quite a bit. You'd have to ask Xenix. I don't see the point of taking something if I can't take it in the long term and provides substancial benefits.

[Xenix]

Hi guys. I got sick of replying to PMs asking for the link, so here you go:
http://clinicalgrade...t&product_id=37

[normalizing]

The problem here is that these guys are peptides that are beyond the means of the average mortal. If an orally active compound with a similar profile of action can be found then that's a big win!

i did not understand what did you mean by "these guys are peptides that are beyond the means of the average mortal" and therefore stray off them ???

[Nattzor]

Hi guys. I got sick of replying to PMs asking for the link, so here you go:
http://clinicalgrade...t&product_id=37

Mind telling us more about your experience?

[telight]

Xenix, can you explain how product comes when you buy it. The site you linked says 5mg/500mcg, what does that mean? Does it mean that it is already measure out for you in 500mcg increments? If not then how did you go about measuring this peptide out for injection?

[joostus]

Xenix, can you explain how product comes when you buy it. The site you linked says 5mg/500mcg, what does that mean? Does it mean that it is already measure out for you in 500mcg increments? If not then how did you go about measuring this peptide out for injection?

It says 5mg/5000mcg which is the same. In the solution is 5mg FGL dissolved.

[telight]

Xenix, can you explain how product comes when you buy it. The site you linked says 5mg/500mcg, what does that mean? Does it mean that it is already measure out for you in 500mcg increments? If not then how did you go about measuring this peptide out for injection?

It says 5mg/5000mcg which is the same. In the solution is 5mg FGL dissolved.

You're right, I guess this means that you just add water to vial and measure out the solution to inject volumetrically.

[AuralAnomaly]

Xenix's source doesn't seem to ship to the UK

This was interesting: http://www.enkam.com...illion_eu_grant

It may be best to do our own custom synth, if we can get our hands on the sequence for the FGL varient (FGLs) being used now in Enkam's alzheimers clinical trials. FGLs seems to be the most refined FGL peptide out of the family for use as a neurotrophin.

Or it could just be a way to make money without infringing on FGL's original patent holders.... Did Enkam invent the original FGL peptide or what?

Edited by AuralAnomaly, 22 October 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[aarfai]

http://clinicalgradepeptides.com/ doesn't seem like they ship to the United States. Also, isn't the peptide sequence posted on the link Xenix provided?

In for group buy.

[xks201]

So is it really worth 50 dollars for ten days worth of it?

[gnappi]

So is it really worth 50 dollars for ten days worth of it?

If the effects are permanent, YES!!! I contacted the company about the possibility of sending to Brazil but they said no because they had several of their products barred from the brazilian customs. So, if someone is willing to buy for me and send me the product by mail (registered letter), I would be very pleased. Note: I do the payment immediately upon confirmation of purchase (send me a PM, please).

[xks201]

And they don't ship to the US...lmao

[gnappi]

And they don't ship to the US...lmao

Wow!!! What a difficult people to do business!!!

[normalizing]

i still did not understand. do you inject that stuff in your veins or ass or what ? why would anyone be injecting any nootropic tho

[Xenix]

i still did not understand. do you inject that stuff in your veins or ass or what ? why would anyone be injecting any nootropic tho

It's an intramuscular injection. I take it in my thigh. FGL isn't prepared for IV. You obviously haven't heard of Cerebrolysin.

[Nattzor]

i still did not understand. do you inject that stuff in your veins or ass or what ? why would anyone be injecting any nootropic tho

It's an intramuscular injection. I take it in my thigh. FGL isn't prepared for IV. You obviously haven't heard of Cerebrolysin.

Based on the size I'm guessing you can take it nasally too, for people scared of needles. But it's not studied at all, so be careful if someone decide it.

The dosage is probably smaller too, making it more cost-effective.

Edited by Nattzor, 26 October 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[cyberger]

Based on the size I'm guessing you can take it nasally too, for people scared of needles. But it's not studied at all, so be careful if someone decide it.

The dosage is probably smaller too, making it more cost-effective.

A study indicates a single intranasal dose between 25mg-200mg is safe. Xenix is getting good results from injecting 0.25mg / 2x daily, so intransal dosing at that range should be very safe in terms of acute effects, but there don't appear to be any studies on long term effects.

In an 8-day, open-label, phase I study, 24 healthy male volunteers (mean age 42 [range 24-55] years) received single intranasal doses of FGL(L) (25, 100 and 200mg) in accordance with an ascending dose, sequential-cohort design.

Conclusion: Intranasal administration of FGL(L) (25, 100 and 200mg) was well tolerated in healthy male volunteers, with no safety concerns and a pharmacokinetic profile that was generally dose related.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....5?dopt=Abstract

Edited by cyberger, 27 October 2013 - 04:14 AM.

[cyberger]

It may be best to do our own custom synth, if we can get our hands on the sequence for the FGL varient (FGLs) being used now in Enkam's alzheimers clinical trials. FGLs seems to be the most refined FGL peptide out of the family for use as a neurotrophin.

Here's a patent from Enkam describing the structure of FGLs: http://www.google.co...s/US20110098225

[Nattzor]

A study indicates a single intranasal dose between 25mg-200mg is safe. Xenix is getting good results from injecting 0.25mg / 2x daily, so intransal dosing at that range should be very safe in terms of acute effects, but there don't appear to be any studies on long term effects.

In an 8-day, open-label, phase I study, 24 healthy male volunteers (mean age 42 [range 24-55] years) received single intranasal doses of FGL(L) (25, 100 and 200mg) in accordance with an ascending dose, sequential-cohort design.

Conclusion: Intranasal administration of FGL(L) (25, 100 and 200mg) was well tolerated in healthy male volunteers, with no safety concerns and a pharmacokinetic profile that was generally dose related.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....5?dopt=Abstract

Nice! Haven't really looked into it, but it seems really nice. Chitosan might also be able to lower the dosage to make it last even longer.

Have you seen a CoA or something like that so you know it's the real deal you're getting?

[MasterHerb]

In for a group buy....

[normalizing]

what group buy ? its not sold in US.

[Nattzor]

what group buy ? its not sold in US.

It's not sold from that company, but group buys involve people getting a lab to synthesise it for them.

[chemicalambrosia]

Does anyone know of a similar legit and reliable peptide company that ships to(or from within) the US? It doesn't have to have this particular peptide. Please PM me if you can help.

[Izan]

any more updates on this substance, xenix? thank you.

[normalizing]

everytime something like this comes up, you cant get it in usa, the land of the free