9 replies to this topic

[i_am]

Hello everyone,

I am actively seeking a nootropic/notropics to counter the mental effects of Mirtazapine (Remeron). I get mental fog and poor concentration when using Mirtazapine. I looked up online and have noticed that Mirtazapine inhibits Acetyl Choline. As a result, I am looking to start using choline during the day. However, I am not sure what other impacts Mirtazapine may have on my mental health and how I can counter these effects. I use Mirtazapine for sleep, nothing else. I looked up Mirtazapine on wikipedia and it describes how it works but since I'm an engineering student and not a med student I don't understand it all. Please give me some advice. Thanks.

[nowayout]

Could you reduce the mirtazapine dose so it mostly clears out by morning? Since lower doses are more sedating, you could try cutting a 15 mg pill in halves or even quarters. You should still get sedation, maybe even more than at higher doses.

Since mirtazapine is sedating mainly because it is an antihistamine, possibly you could also get better results from the milder kind of over the counter or prescription antihistamine sleep aids, some of which also have shorter half lives than mirtazapine. As you have discovered, mirtazapine is a very dirty drug (does lots of things you don't want) and there are other much cleaner and more targeted antihistamines, for example.

It it bad medicine to take another drug just for the side effects of the first drug, when you could either reduce the dose of the first drug or replace it with something with less side effects.

Edited by nowayout, 22 September 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[i_am]

nowayout, thanks for the response. I do take 7.5mg (half a pill) and it still dulls me out for the whole day. I was taking hydroxyzine (antihistamine) before but Im having a stressful semester now so it isn't quite enough to put me to sleep even at 50mg... This is why I'm using remeron now. If only there was a way to nullify its effect during the day...any suggestions will be appreciated.

[Babychris]

"Could you reduce the mirtazapine dose so it mostly clears out by morning? Since lower doses are more sedating, you could try cutting a 15 mg pill in halves or even quarters. You should still get sedation, maybe even more than at higher doses."

Why the hell do you think He wants to be more sedated ?

By the way remeron is so powerfull that i'm highly dubitative/hopeless that we'll find something to counteract totally the negative effects of the drug, since his most particular antidepressant effect is by sedation.
Anyway I think you should speak to your doctor and see if there is something else that could help you since you just use it to sleep !

Why Do you don't give a shot for some melatonin ? You can combine it with some bacopa at day and night (very good stuff) and/or Gotu kola, ashwagandha. There are so many things that could help you it would be a shame to stick with this awful drug (excepting if you were depressed by a death or something really dramatic)

NB: If you really want to stick on it (you can use in last resort a MICRO DOSE of mirtazapine <1mg though) I'm pretty sure that you'll feel the next day effect though²

Edited by Babychris, 22 September 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[nowayout]

"Could you reduce the mirtazapine dose so it mostly clears out by morning? Since lower doses are more sedating, you could try cutting a 15 mg pill in halves or even quarters. You should still get sedation, maybe even more than at higher doses."

Why the hell do you think He wants to be more sedated ?

Because "the hell" at a lesser dose it may be more sedating but for a shorter time.

To the OP, you could still try cutting your current dose in half. Clearly if you are still feeling sedated the next day (when a lot of the original dose has already been eliminated) it would imply that a smaller dose to start off with could possibly still be sedating enough.

Edited by nowayout, 22 September 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[nowayout]

I was taking hydroxyzine (antihistamine) before but Im having a stressful semester now so it isn't quite enough to put me to sleep even at 50mg...

50 mg is not a very high dose of hydroxyzine (see, e.g., dosing suggestions at rxlist), so there is significant room for increasing the dose.

[Babychris]

Yeah of course, but I'm pretty sure that keep on mirtazapine is a BAD IDEA. He is not talking about terrible insomnia triggered by a severe depression.

It's so much easier safer, smoother to treat insomnia than real depression and anxiety that I would be a shame to make loose more time to this student.
By the way the main concern of this guy is related to his cognition (of course on longecity^^) so why don't let him try some bacopa or melatonin or orther "anxiolytic noots"

[nowayout]

Yeah I agree that mirtazapine is a bad idea for someone who doesn't have depression to begin with. It is being used basically only for its antihistaminic effects, but as I mentioned it is a very dirty drug hitting lots of receptors you don't want it to, to who knows what possible long term effects...

Rather take a purer antihistamine in larger doses if you want to go the antihistamine route. I am not a fan of antihistamines for sleep myself, since I find them to cause very quick tolerance and loss of effectiveness. After a while no antihistamine will work any longer and then you end up having to go on to harder drugs.

I also find that antihistamines give me terrible quality sleep even when they work as required.

Edited by nowayout, 22 September 2013 - 07:46 PM.

[i_am]

BTW, I do drink melatonin before bed. I've noticed that stress is one of the biggest factors that influences my insomnia. My insomnia has been pretty bad lately. As a result, I've started taking remeron about a week ago. About two years ago I took remeron (duration:about 6 months), and I barely withdrew from it (terrible withdrawal symptoms for a few weeks). So, yes I didn't want to start taking it again but the lack of sleep was killing me... I'm thinking maybe I'll just minimize my remeron dosage to a bare minimum, that is still effective for sleep. I was really hoping someone new a nootropic that could combat the mentally dulling effect of remeron... : (

Edited by i_am, 22 September 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[nowayout]

If the stress is temporary (e.g. exams, illness in the family, etc.) it may be better to just use a hypnotic for a few weeks. A benzodiazepine hypnotic like temazepam (restoril) would be both calming and sleep-inducing and should be fine to take as long as you limit continuous use to under a month to avoid possible withdrawal issues. You can also use it for a longer time on an as-needed basis if, say, you only have exam-induced stress a couple of nights a week. Z-drugs like zolpidem (ambien) are another option, though they are not as calming and may therefore be less useful if your insomnia is due to anxiety. Their use should also be limited just like benzos (there is a myth, driven ultimately by what drugs are still on patent, that z-drugs are safer or better than benzodiazepines - it is not true though.)