35 replies to this topic

[Sinn]

Hi guys.
After some time of experimenting I ve decided to drop out of nootopics world for a while.
Now guess its time to get back to it .
I am signing a new project for me where I will be needed a lot of motivation, high focus , multitasking speed and obviously improving better understanding of things.
In the past I was playing with nooppet + piracetam combination but with no efect whatsoever.
I belive that is couse I bought a noopept from unkown ebay seller and been taking it in doses from 5mg - 30mg /day .
Didnt worked. so I gave up .
now after some researching I am about to try oxiracetam and very very eager to try sunifram altho not sure if that drug would be the best choice for my needs.
I also belive that I should mention that I probably suffer ( never officially confirmed by doctors) with some sort of concentation dissorder. couse its very hard for me to concentrate on certan task for more than 30mins and it usually takes me much longer to complete something than it needs to..

Thx a lot

[Janica]

I prefer Sunbifram over noopept anyday. Noopept just makes me feel... weird.

Edited by Janica, 27 September 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Sinn]

THx for your reply Janica.
Can you tell me what are your experiances from sunifram?
And what did you felt over some time of using sunifram ?
I ve read that effects fade away over time ?
THx

[robosapiens]

My current stack includes unifiram and noopept, they stack well for me.

[Sinn]

I decided to go for sunifiram and oxiracetam plus B complex, omega 3 and multivits.
I ve read that sulbutiamine combines well with suni .
MAybe I will add some stuff later as well, hoping for few more replys from experienced ppl

[Synaesthesiac]

I take Suni and Noopept, among other racetams. I don't get the "weird" feeling that some report on Noopept, and both Suni and Noopept have worked great for me.

EDIT: I take Oxi as well, and I find it to be a great focus agent as well as for logical/linear thinking. Pramiracetam is great for strong focus too.

Edited by Synaesthesiac, 27 September 2013 - 11:50 PM.

[JohnnyP]

Sorry to be a little off topic but are you guys taking Suni daily?

[Sinn]

I take Suni and Noopept, among other racetams. I don't get the "weird" feeling that some report on Noopept, and both Suni and Noopept have worked great for me.

EDIT: I take Oxi as well, and I find it to be a great focus agent as well as for logical/linear thinking. Pramiracetam is great for strong focus too.

Hey, thx for yor help.
Can you please share your stack an what effects it has on you ?

Cheers

[Synaesthesiac]

Ok, you asked for it ; )


CURRENT

CoQ10 100mg 1x (morning)
B-Complex Various 1x (morning)
Vitamin D 5000iu 1x (morning) (every other)
Piracetam 800mg 2x (morning, noon)
Oxiracetam 600mg 2x (morning, noon)
Pramiracetam 175-200mg 2x (morning, noon)
Sulbutiamine 200mg 2x OR PRN (morning, noon)
Noopept 10-12mg 2x (morning, noon)
Sunifiram 5-7mg 2x (morning, noon)
Alpha GPC 600mg 2x (morning, noon)
Vinpocetine 5mg 2x (morning, noon)
Caffeine 40mg 2x (morning, noon)
Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg 2x (morning, noon)
SAM-e 400mg 2x (morning, noon)
NAC 500mg 2x (morning, noon)
Thyroid Support Various 2x (morning, noon)
Rhodiola Rosea 300mg 2x (morning, noon)
N-Acetyl Tyrosine 350mg 1x (noon)
DHA/EPA/OMEGA 600/60/20mg 3x (morning, noon, night)
PS 100mg 3x (morning, noon, night)
Men's Multi-V Various 2x (morning, night)
Bacopa Extract 250mg 2x (morning, night)
L-Theanine 100mg 2x (morning, night)
Lion's Mane 500mg 2x (morning, night)
Mag L-Threonate 144mg 2x (morning, night)
5-HTP 100mg 2x (noon, night)
S-Acetyl Glutathione 200mg 2x (noon, night)
L-Glutamine 750mg 2x (noon, night)
Melatonin 3mg 1x (night)

The most recent additions are the Oxi and the Pram. I ran out of Ani and subbed in the Oxi for something different. I have some Nefi on the way to test out as well. The result from all this? My cognitions come quickly, effortlessly, and I feel always "on point." I love my stack, and I will keep refining it and tweaking it depending on what I'm doing at that time in my life. Right now I am learning a new DAW, or audio program, straight from the manual and teaching myself by using it, for roughly 6-8 hours a day. The Oxi and Pram have been huge helps for this.

Edited by Synaesthesiac, 28 September 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Sinn]

THx a lot for sharing.
Your stack is humungus.I can imagine it takes you 30mins each monring to sip all those thinfgs inside of you ..
I am staring with little less and build up.
As said ordered sunifiram and oxiracetam , hae some spare CDP choline.
Will go with that for now and go from there.

Thx again and best of luck

[Synaesthesiac]

Yes, it does look a little daunting, but I have free access to all the supps except the -racetams, sulbutiamine, and Suni. Oxi and Suni should yield some interesting results for you, please let us know how it goes when you've gotten your stack underway for a bit. I would be interested to hear how it world for you.

[Sinn]

Free access sounds very good. I bet stack like that costs a fortune .
Yeah you bet, that I will report, once I try this shit out .
Cheers

[Sinn]

Received sunifiram today.
orderede from here : http://www.nootropic.../sunifiram.html

Take 4 days to arrive and it all looked good.
Took one tablet and noticed slight headache + colours looked brighter.
Sunshine almost bothered me. I also noticed its easier for me to stay focused on one task.
After 4horuse feeling dissapeared and than I realised that it worked a bit.
So I took another pill of 10mg.
Again headache started.
I went do some running and felt like its hard to focus my view .
Like blurr vission at times, but only slighlty.
I also noticed some details that I havent noticed beofre.
Except tht nothing happened.
3.5h passed after I took the pill and I still feel slight headache.
yeah at same time as taking it I took like 200mg of CDP choline, 800mg of B complex.

Wonder what is cousing headaches?
also should I be taking choline at same time with Sunifiram or differend?

[sammunro100]

I'll be honest while not trying sunifram, i have tried noopept from nootropics uk (whether this is a bad source I don't know) but I've tried a whole range of doses from 10MG to 80MG in one go and i have felt 0 change nothing bad and nothing good at all just seems like it does nothing at all.

[Sinn]

Similar Issues I had with phoenix raw nootropics.I even gave a friend few pills and he said it didnt worked.
However I have found few ppl here who bought from that same seller and it worked for them .
So who knows.
AS I said sunifiram had some effect on me, not as dramatic as I read in other threads, but its first day.
Only headache bothers me.but it could be from other things .

Will report

[Sinn]

Todayis day 3 on me taking sunifiram.
After inital day of feeling something I dont feel much if anything on day 2.
Am takind 2x10mg / day.
Thinkig to double the dose today and see how ill it feel.
Alongside of sunifiram am taking CDP choline, b complex and omega 3.
Still waiting for shipement of oxi

[blacksalt]

I didn't realize Sunifiram was not a racetam and I wasn't really aware of what an ampakine was ... but now I am intrigued.

Which is the most common or best form to order it - raw powder or tablets(?!)

[Sinn]

Powder is a cheaper form usually.
And also you can be 100% sure of amount you have taken,once you meassure it
Howerever pills are much easier to swallow.That is especially important on those noots which taste horribly ( like Sulbutiamine for example).
So it up to you to decide.
I personally am all for pills.

[ssplash]

Hi, I tried sunifiram yesterday and I got a massive headache. It was actually half a tablet 5mg which I ground into powder and took sublingually. The headache continued throughout the night and today. I decided to try noopept and citicoline stack from Nootropics.co.uk and it has tablets with 20mg Noopept and 250mg citicoline. I have felt quite lightheaded all day, no benefits, and another headache has started this evening. Do you know if the headaches subside after a while. I have searched the web, but I just found first use reviews and not sure about long term benefits or changes when things don't work out. What do you think? Cheers

Edited by ssplash, 17 October 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[sammunro100]

Hi, I tried sunifiram yesterday and I got a massive headache. It was actually half a tablet 5mg which I ground into powder and took sublingually. The headache continued throughout the night and today. I decided to try noopept and citicoline stack from Nootropics.co.uk and it has tablets with 20mg Noopept and 250mg citicoline. I have felt quite lightheaded all day, no benefits, and another headache has started this evening. Do you know if the headaches subside after a while. I have searched the web, but I just found first use reviews and not sure about long term benefits or changes when things don't work out. What do you think? Cheers

I'll be honest i think getting anything from nootropics uk is a no go, I've bought three mental supplements from them and had 0 effects on extremely strong doses to weak doses, I'm in the process of ordering some of the suggested stacks from other more genuine sources so i will be leaving my feedback here in the coming weeks.
And with regards to the headaches, i can only imagine it's purely paranoia placebo effects or perhaps another underlying health problem sadly, as like i said i experienced no effects from anything from noot uk, either that or these just are not the right nootropics for you, people have varying effects so it's hard to tell.

Edited by sammunro100, 17 October 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[jly1986]

I take both Noopept and Sunifiram daily. Noopept at 5-10 mg with breakfast, and Sunifiram 5 mg before going to bed. I also take about 10-20 mg of centrophenoxine in the morning with the Noopept.

I don't experience any headaches. In fact, before my starting supplementing with these, I'd normally get headaches whenever I would experience some mental or physical stress, such as catching a head cold, or when the weather turns cold, or after a public speaking situation, etc. But after supplementing with these nootropics, I haven't had any headaches whatsoever, even under conditions which used to result in headaches in the past. It has been 7+ months now without having a headache.

For those suffering from headaches after taking these substances, my suggestion would be to reduce your dosage, or allow your body some time to acclimate to the new supplements.

[ssplash]

Hi, I tried sunifiram yesterday and I got a massive headache. It was actually half a tablet 5mg which I ground into powder and took sublingually. The headache continued throughout the night and today. I decided to try noopept and citicoline stack from Nootropics.co.uk and it has tablets with 20mg Noopept and 250mg citicoline. I have felt quite lightheaded all day, no benefits, and another headache has started this evening. Do you know if the headaches subside after a while. I have searched the web, but I just found first use reviews and not sure about long term benefits or changes when things don't work out. What do you think? Cheers

I'll be honest i think getting anything from nootropics uk is a no go, I've bought three mental supplements from them and had 0 effects on extremely strong doses to weak doses, I'm in the process of ordering some of the suggested stacks from other more genuine sources so i will be leaving my feedback here in the coming weeks.
And with regards to the headaches, i can only imagine it's purely paranoia placebo effects or perhaps another underlying health problem sadly, as like i said i experienced no effects from anything from noot uk, either that or these just are not the right nootropics for you, people have varying effects so it's hard to tell.

Thanks for your comment, I don't know much about the nootropics world, but it is true that I'm quite sensitive to the medication I'm taking for bipolar. When I first started Lamictal (lamotrigine), I got the hideous headache that is fully documented by web boards. It got better with time and I seldom get them now. What is not so common for me is to have a headache that lasts all day. I will take a quarter of the pill (that would be 5mg) and see how it goes. I can't afford to buy from a different supplier as my budget is now in need for a refill, hehe. I'll let you know how it goes. I hope you get lucky with your new stacks

[ssplash]

I take both Noopept and Sunifiram daily. Noopept at 5-10 mg with breakfast, and Sunifiram 5 mg before going to bed. I also take about 10-20 mg of centrophenoxine in the morning with the Noopept.

I don't experience any headaches. In fact, before my starting supplementing with these, I'd normally get headaches whenever I would experience some mental or physical stress, such as catching a head cold, or when the weather turns cold, or after a public speaking situation, etc. But after supplementing with these nootropics, I haven't had any headaches whatsoever, even under conditions which used to result in headaches in the past. It has been 7+ months now without having a headache.

For those suffering from headaches after taking these substances, my suggestion would be to reduce your dosage, or allow your body some time to acclimate to the new supplements.

Hi, Jly1986 It's good to hear your feedback. I got quite scared about the headache because an unlucky chap reported in Amazon that he got a bad temple headache that hasn't gone away yet after having stopped taking sunifiram six months ago. He also said that no headache pills worked for him. I will take a quarter pill (5mg) the day after tomorrow or when the headache is gone and see what happens. Cheers

[Climactic]

I will take a quarter pill (5mg) the day after tomorrow or when the headache is gone and see what happens. Cheers

You already had a serious side effect from sunifiram. Yet you insist on taking this untested drug once again - how smart is that? It will also cancel the effects of lamotrigine, if you know anything about how both of these drugs work, but do you?

I recommend everyone to stay away from sunifiram. It is an untested drug (in clinical human trials) and this should be reason enough. It has caused temporary to persistent headaches in many people. There is good reason for it causing excitotoxicity by NMDAr overactivation. It also activates PKCa, overactivation of which causes metastatic brain cancer and other cancers. It is the height of arrogance to presume that the drug is safe and beneficial.

In contrast, at least noopept is tested in Russian trials. It is to be cycled. The worst thing I have heard from persistent noopept use is trkb downregulation, but at least this is expected to be reversible.

Edited by Climactic, 03 November 2013 - 09:07 PM.

[ssplash]

I will take a quarter pill (5mg) the day after tomorrow or when the headache is gone and see what happens. Cheers

"You already had a serious side effect from sunifiram. Yet you insist on taking this untested drug once again - how smart is that? It will also cancel the effects of lamotrigine, if you know anything about how both of these drugs work, but do you?"

"It is the height of arrogance to presume that the drug is safe and beneficial."

CLIMACTIC has also written these other posts quoting mine in the other Sunifiram thread:


www.longecity.org/forum/topic/62500-sunifiram/page__st__1470#entry621091

Post number #1472

"FYI Over the past few weeks, the user ssplash has been messaging several users from this thread. She complained of
persistent headache side effects from a single low dose of sunifiram - not combined with any stimulants. By her
description of the symptoms, I do believe she was telling the truth about her side effects. I requested her to post her
experience here herself, but she lied to me that she already did this, and then blocked me when I called her out on her lie.
I also urged her to do regular cardiovascular exercise which has been helping my side effect symptoms greatly, but she
was lackadaisical about it, and preferred to use impure DXM instead which is not a great idea. Well, there is a saying -
don't do the crime if you can't do the time. I am posting this advisory here requesting users to be cautious in
communicating with her."

Post number #1474

Face it - the primary reason why people shirk from exercise is laziness. I suggested it only as a step before starting a
medication like memantine which you outright rejected even though there is a fair chance that it'll help. There are many things
you can do which don't involve your knee. Moreover, it has been one year anyway since your injury - how much longer will it
work as an excuse?

And please get a real computer.

I really want to take a step and report the user Climactic to the Longecity's community. His posts speak for themselves.

Climactic, after your first messages to me on PM I had to block you, but then you resorted to quoting my posts in several threads I've participated in with unwelcome, unwarranted, unhelpful and derogatory remarks. What does it take for you to stop this unethical nonsense? I know you get a kick out of it for some obscure reason, but you are killing the threads by turning me into a "topic" in a way that doesn't contribute to them nor to anyone's efforts to share information in a friendly, concerned and bona fide manner.

Edited by ssplash, 04 November 2013 - 12:33 AM.

[BigJohn]

I have read several posts about serious sexual side effects with noopept.. I stay away from that stuff. I'd go with the sunifiram, although the lack of clinical trials keeps me away from it too. I just stick with the four main racetams.. oxi, pir, pram, and ani.

[Geoffrey]

What does it take for you to stop this unethical nonsense? I know you get a kick out of it for some obscure reason, but you are killing the threads by turning me into a "topic" in a way that doesn't contribute to them nor to anyone's efforts to share information in a friendly, concerned and bona fide manner.

I'm very sorry this has happened to you, but don't let it get you down. Because Climactic has had a bad experience with a megadose of sunifiram combined with modafinil and other things, he has been going around warning everyone against sunifiram. While I think his intentions have been good (he wants people to be aware that there are potentially serious risks associated with an untested chemical), recently he is getting more and more categorical about this, stating as fact things that are speculation and anecdote. Sunifiram can cause headaches, yes, but in doses of less than 30mg per day, this is usually down to too little choline administration, because it eats up choline like anybody's business. Suni has been theorized to allow for excitotoxicity in certain rather specific combinations. However, a few of us have regularly taken suni with modafinil, in reasonable doses, with no excitotoxic side effects. And if a modest increase in PKC-alpha causes cancer, then don't do memory exercises, because PKC-α plays a critical role in long-term potentiation. He already got rapped over the knuckles for putting the cancer speculation into the Wikipedia article on sunifiram with no evidence. His warnings are intended as salutary, but his methods appear to be crossing ethical lines, which is a pity, because he has had useful contributions to make. Maybe he's just frightened because of what he believes to be long-term brain damage induced by suni. No-one else has reported such extreme and long-lasting symptoms from suni, and many of us have been taking it long-term now with no such effects.

[Climactic]

Because Climactic has had a bad experience with a megadose of sunifiram combined with modafinil and other things, he has been going around warning everyone against sunifiram. While I think his intentions have been good (he wants people to be aware that there are potentially serious risks associated with an untested chemical), recently he is getting more and more categorical about this, stating as fact things that are speculation and anecdote. Sunifiram can cause headaches, yes, but in doses of less than 30mg per day, this is usually down to too little choline administration, because it eats up choline like anybody's business. Suni has been theorized to allow for excitotoxicity in certain rather specific combinations. However, a few of us have regularly taken suni with modafinil, in reasonable doses, with no excitotoxic side effects. And if a modest increase in PKC-alpha causes cancer, then don't do memory exercises, because PKC-α plays a critical role in long-term potentiation. He already got rapped over the knuckles for putting the cancer speculation into the Wikipedia article on sunifiram with no evidence. His warnings are intended as salutary, but his methods appear to be crossing ethical lines, which is a pity, because he has had useful contributions to make. Maybe he's just frightened because of what he believes to be long-term brain damage induced by suni. No-one else has reported such extreme and long-lasting symptoms from suni, and many of us have been taking it long-term now with no such effects.

I admit I have taken sunifiram "personally", and at times have been less than cogent about my arguments. What troubled me in the offending discussion is the user's refusal to even consider exercise for the headaches they got from sunifiram. I would not have stressed this if it didn't help eliminate my headaches 100% (if only for the weeks that I continue to exercise intensely). The warranted risks alone, of excitotoxicity and cancer, especially when sunifiram is coadministered with synergistic agents, should be sufficient to dissuade a person from chronically using sunifiram-like drugs. In the real world, we have to continuously make decisions from incomplete evidence. To wait for certainty can turn out to be deadly. Please note that I never said in Wikipedia that sunifiram causes cancer. As I recall, I only said that it increases PKCa, and that increased PKCa is associated with cancers. In fact, the article on PKCa lists the latter claim accurately with multiple references. See it for yourself. I know what a low choline headache is - it is easily remediated by supplementation. Sunifiram is a dirty ampakine, in that it undesirably first activates NMDAr. And if what you want is an LTP inducer, there are far safer approaches to first exhaust, namely lithium, noopept, B complex, and iterations of the CILTP stack. Thank you.

Edited by Climactic, 12 November 2013 - 10:39 PM.

[GetOutOfBox]

I'd say they're both good for different things. Sunifiram is likely a more effective acute concentration/memory enhancer, as it works directly on the glutaminergic system through multiple vectors (NMDA, glycine, etc). Noopept is likely much more effective rehabilitating brain damage, or correcting neuro-psychological disorders involving NGF/BDNF such as depression, borderline personality disorder, etc (increases in NGF/BDNF correct the hippocampal atrophy associated with both, over a period of 1-2 months). A lot of people find that gains from Noopept appear after regular usage for around 1 month or so, and remain for a while after ceasing doses. Additionally, I see a lot of posts from people who find it actually works against short-term memory while you're actually dosing, and that the days off are the clearer ones. I suspect this has something to do with how Noopept increases tonic inhibition in the hippocampus, it's probably reducing electrical activity while you're actually dosing, having an anti-nootropic effect, but at the same time bestowing long term gains due to elevating levels of NGF and BDNF.

In summary, use Sunifiram for general enhancement, and Noopept for correcting an actual problem. Also, you should note that as a potent ampakine, you should be careful dosing Sunifiram. Unlike most of the real racetams (not racetam-alikes), there is a potential for causing harm to your brain if you dose too high, or combine it with something that also has glutaminergic actions (or happen to have a stroke while on it). The other racetams are only weakly ampakines, they mostly act through Acetylcholine, which is rate controlled by Acetylcholinesterase.

[Geoffrey]

That's a very useful post, GetOutOfBox. Especially the (possible) explanation of why noopept can sometimes appear to cause short-term memory loss, which makes sense and fits with my experience. I have sometimes found noopept and sunifiram to be synergistic, though oxiracetam does seem to stack best of all with sunifiram, so long as you have a really good choline source. Unlike Isochroma, though, I can't take this stack regularly, as its cholinergic effects accumulate too rapidly and end up producing paradoxical effects. So I'm currently alternating sunifiram one day and noopept the next, adding in oxiracetam when I need a boost for focused learning.

I am a little worried by sunifiram's addictive potential. It's quite hard to drop it after I've been taking it for a while, because I feel so lethargic and brain-fogged after 24-48 hours without it. The inclination is to say "to hell with it" and pop another suni pill to feel better again. Very similar to caffeine in this sense. It's not a dopaminergic addiction, rather that homeostasis accustoms the brain to function normally in the presence of sunifiram (I speculate). I have stopped for periods of weeks at a time, but it takes a bit of will power to get over the first 24-48 hours without it. I've not noticed this with noopept.