1818 replies to this topic

[shadowhawk]

Which is the true light? (god?)

Edited by shadowhawk, 14 March 2014 - 05:19 PM.

[shadowhawk]

LET THERE BE LIGHT

CHRIST IS THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD

John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (NIV)

Psalm 27:1
The LORD is my light and my salvation—whom shall I fear? (NIV)

Edited by shadowhawk, 14 March 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[shadowhawk]

What do you see? NASA photo of light.

[johnross47]

Do you imagine that you have now converted everybody and we're all just gasping to be shown the wonderful light that fills your life? You may not have noticed but nobody has said that they agree with your summary of your wonderfully successful arguments. Nobody is listening.

Edited by johnross47, 14 March 2014 - 11:25 PM.

[shadowhawk]

Do you imagine that you have now converted everybody and we're all just gasping to be shown the wonderful light that fills your life? You may not have noticed but nobody has said that they agree with your summary of your wonderfully successful arguments. Nobody is listening.

You are.

[shadowhawk]

There are different spectrums of light and here the analogy is between religions and light. We have seen in the TAO that all religions share common laws written on the heart.

Christianity, before it was called Christianity was called the way. All religions are a way but all roads do not lead to the same place. This does not mean some road is not the way to where we want to go, only that all roads do not lead that way.

The elephant and the blind men show us there is only one object that the blind men are describing, but only one perspective sees the whole elephant. Which perspective sees the one elephant?

Now we are looking at light. God is said to be light. Christ is said to be the light of the world. Because of the TAO there is light in every human and religion but that is to point out there commonality. There is only one light, a white light, which is the essence of all. While a white light contains all, all are not white in that they lack. Atheism is black, in that it denies all light.
Black is the absence of light.

This will hardly be agreed upon by other religions so let us look at there differences and perhaps ways to determine if there is a God, which God.

Edited by shadowhawk, 15 March 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[sthira]

Speaking of everlasting light, I wonder if heaven is lit up with many more Shadowhawks?

[johnross47]

Speaking of everlasting light, I wonder if heaven is lit up with many more Shadowhawks?

I wonder if he needs to smoke less weed?

[shadowhawk]

“Speaking of everlasting light, I wonder if heaven is lit up with many more Shadowhawks”

“I wonder if he needs to smoke less weed? “
http://www.longecity...150#entry648240

Typical derailment. Ho hummm

[shadowhawk]

The TAO
http://www.longecity...570#entry647262

Edited by shadowhawk, 17 March 2014 - 06:45 PM.

[shadowhawk]

THE TAO, the basis of common morality among humans. Even Atheists have can be moral and good. It is the basis of our natural law guaranteeing our unalienable human rights in the constitution. Our whole society is built upon it.

http://www.longecity...600#entry648070
http://www.longecity...600#entry648992
http://www.longecity...600#entry649135

http://ecx.images-am...04,203,200_.jpg

Edited by shadowhawk, 17 March 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[shadowhawk]

ALL ROADS LEAD TO THE SAME PLACE.
While all roads are designed by an intelligence, and go someplace they do not all lead to Rome or anywhere else. The destination is different. Religions do not all lead to the same place either.
http://www.longecity...600#entry649126

Edited by shadowhawk, 17 March 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[shadowhawk]

THE ELEPHANT AND THE BLIND MEN
This is kind of like the all roads lead to the same place argument. The elephant represents God or the truth and all the religions are the blind men truing to describe God.

They are all wrong except the one who sees that there is only one elephant from the fact he alone has sight. There is a right view but without the enlightened perspective, which is as different as the rest, you can’t know it. You can’t be blind, you need light.

http://www.longecity...600#entry649366
http://www.longecity...600#entry649451

Edited by shadowhawk, 17 March 2014 - 08:16 PM.

[shadowhawk]

LIGHT
As an allegory of God. Different spectrums represent different religions but there is only one white light which is the full truth.
http://www.longecity...600#entry649600
http://www.longecity...630#entry649626
http://www.longecity...630#entry649640
http://www.longecity...630#entry649819

Edited by shadowhawk, 17 March 2014 - 08:43 PM.

[shadowhawk]

THE FIRST SECTION SUMMAEY, IS THERE A GOD?
http://www.longecity...600#entry647448
============================================
WHICH GOD SUMMARY

THE TAO
http://www.longecity...600#entry648070
C.S. Lewis, The Abllition of Man.
http://www.longecity...570#entry647262
http://www.longecity...600#entry648923
http://www.longecity...600#entry648992
http://www.longecity...600#entry649126
http://www.longecity...630#entry650143
http://www.longecity...630#entry650150

ALL ROADS LEAD TO THE SAME PLACE.
http://www.longecity...600#entry649126
http://www.longecity...630#entry650155

THE ELEPHANT AND THE BLIND MEN
http://www.longecity...600#entry649366
http://www.longecity...600#entry649451
http://www.longecity...630#entry650157

LIGHT
http://www.longecity...600#entry649600
http://www.longecity...630#entry649626
http://www.longecity...630#entry649640
http://www.longecity...630#entry649819
http://www.longecity...630#entry650159

[shadowhawk]

So there are three responses to the TAO, the many roads, the Elephant and the blind men and the light. http://www.longecity...630#entry650187 Pluralism, Inclusivism, and Exclusivism.

In Pluralism, Christ is no more definitive or normative than any religious figure or concept. Rather than confessing that Jesus Christ is the one Lord over all, this view asserts that the one Lord who has manifested himself in other names is also known as Jesus. Christians are encouraged to abandon any claim of Christian uniqueness and the possibility of absolute revelation, accepting the fact that the Christian faith is one among many options.

Inclusivism is a blanket term to characterize a sort of "middle way" between exclusivism and pluralism. Most prominent within mainline Protestantism and post-Vatican II Catholicism, its notable proponents (in one form or another) include Karl Rahner, Raimundo Panikkar and Stanley Samartha, and Hans Kung. Evangelical theologians such as Clark Pinnock, Norman Anderson, and John Sanders have also identified themselves with this position. Herein, the agnosticism associated with Pluralism, Inclusivism is characterized by outright optimism. Christian salvation is not confined to the historical or geographic extent special revelation has spread, rather it must be available to all cultures, irrespective of age or geography. Salvation is still posited wholly in Christ and his salvific work. Specific knowledge of this work, however, is not necessary for the effect (i.e., salvation) to apply to those within a different religious culture who have responded to the general revelation available. Inclusivists want to avoid monopolizing the gospel of redemption. They acknowledge the possibility of salvation outside of Christian faith or outside the walls of the visible church, but the agent of such salvation is Christ, and the revelation in Jesus is definitive and normative for assessing that salvation. Jesus Christ is believed to be the center, and other ways are evaluated by how they relate to him. Other religions are not just a preparation for Christ, but Christ is actually present in them.

The fundamental differences between exclusivism and inclusivism... are the nature and the content of "saving faith." The former emphasizes explicit faith while the latter points to an implicit faith.

The exclusivist position has been the dominant position of the church as a whole through much of its history until the Enlightenment. Major representatives include Karl Barth, Emil Brunner, Hendrick Kraemer, D.A. Carson, William Lane Craig, and R. Douglas Geivett.
Key to this position is the understanding of God's general and special revelations. God is manifested through creation (general revelation which we considered in section one http://www.longecity...600#entry647448 ), but Man has responded by freely going against this revelation and, thus, stands guilty before a holy God. However, God has demonstrated a reconciliatory mercy through His word and deed, fulfilled completely in Jesus Christ. The historical person of Jesus, then, is the unique, final, decisive, and normative self-revelation of God to Man (special revelation). Exclusivists believe that Jesus Christ is the sole criterion by which all religions, including Christianity, should be understood and evaluated.

Christ did not come just to make a contribution to the religious storehouse of knowledge. The revelation which he brought is the ultimate standard. Since in Christ alone is salvation and truth, many religious paths do not adequately reflect the way of God and do not lead to truth and life. Jesus is not, therefore, just the greatest lord among other lords. There is no other lord besides him.

Specific texts often employed by exclusivists include Acts 4:12; John 14:6; 1 Corinthians 3:11; and 1 Timothy 2:5-6.

There is a road that takes us to God, there is one elephant, though blind men can know part of it. There is the TAO which all know in there heart and there is the white light which includes all the truth of the spectrums of light.

[shadowhawk]

THE BIG BANG TRIMORS

Edited by shadowhawk, 18 March 2014 - 09:17 PM.

[platypus]

Have you addressed the link between mental illnesses, epilepsy, and religion? Do you agree that the the symptoms of Apostle Paul could fit epilepsy? Have you considered that his conversion into Christianily might have been a result of a hallucination experienced in an epileptic fit?

[shadowhawk]

Have you addressed the link between mental illnesses, epilepsy, and religion? Do you agree that the the symptoms of Apostle Paul could fit epilepsy? Have you considered that his conversion into Christianily might have been a result of a hallucination experienced in an epileptic fit?

No, all the real evidence is against it.

[shadowhawk]

WHO INVENTED THE BIG BANG THEORY?

[platypus]

Have you addressed the link between mental illnesses, epilepsy, and religion? Do you agree that the the symptoms of Apostle Paul could fit epilepsy? Have you considered that his conversion into Christianily might have been a result of a hallucination experienced in an epileptic fit?

No, all the real evidence is against it.

Oh really, what might that be? Is it not strange that today people with religious delusions are successfully treated with antipsychotics, while in the olden days they founded cults and religions, some of which are still alive today?

[johnross47]

Have you addressed the link between mental illnesses, epilepsy, and religion? Do you agree that the the symptoms of Apostle Paul could fit epilepsy? Have you considered that his conversion into Christianily might have been a result of a hallucination experienced in an epileptic fit?

No, all the real evidence is against it.

Oh really, what might that be? Is it not strange that today people with religious delusions are successfully treated with antipsychotics, while in the olden days they founded cults and religions, some of which are still alive today?

The certainty with which religious people can declare their own unstated non-existent evidence to be conclusive and perfect, and the other side's evidence to be a failure, is very close to delusion. Faith is a brain state that colours everything else that passes through. There is of course no real evidence in the story of Paul: we only have a repeatedly translated, retold and passed on version of his own superstition laden account of his experience. The religious misinterpretation of epileptic events was normal in those days.

[shadowhawk]

platypus: “Oh really, what might that be? Is it not strange that today people with religious delusions are successfully treated with antipsychotics, while in the olden days they founded cults and religions, some of which are still alive today? “

SH: You are the one who made the claim. There is absolutely no evidence. Just character attacks when you have nothing to say. Nice attempt to derail the topic.

johnross47: “The certainty with which religious people can declare their own unstated non-existent evidence to be conclusive and perfect, and the other side's evidence to be a failure, is very close to delusion. Faith is a brain state that colours everything else that passes through. There is of course no real evidence in the story of Paul: we only have a repeatedly translated, retold and passed on version of his own superstition laden account of his experience. The religious misinterpretation of epileptic events was normal in those days.”

SH:
1. Paul is a real historical person, one of the greatest minds that ever lived. But the discussion is not about him and this is an attempt also to derail the topic.

2. Here is your evidence http://www.longecity...150#entry648240 and of course there is none. You have presented no evidence but logical fallacies, name calling and attempts to derail the topic. Hundreds of such posts. Desperate atheists. Rave on. Back to the discussion of WHICH GOD.

[theconomist]

The problems start to arise when people take the beliefs and texts literally.
shadowhawk is a great example of a person who isn't driven by reason - don't take this as a personal attack shadowhawk, on the contrary, I think being able to believe to the point where the belief stops being a belief and becomes a reality is a great thing for an individual person - for a society? not so much.

[shadowhawk]

Speaking of reality we are discussing “which religion.” I have shown several analogies so far, http://www.longecity...0#entry650187 and conclusions. http://www.longecity...0#entry650368 I then turned to the Big Bang for help because it is by far the dominant scientific cosmology today. Science cannot deal with the question of which religion but it can help us with questions of cosmology and all religions have cosmological views.

In Jewish, Christian and Islamic, religions the universe began to exist when God created it. It started and it developed and changed in time. We have argued various aspects of this as evidence for the existence of God.

What is the support for the Big Bang?

1. Einstein’s theory of general relativity, and the scientific confirmation of its accuracy
2. measurements of the cosmic microwave background radiation
3. red-shifting of light from galaxies moving away from us
4. radioactive element abundance predictions (from supernovae)
5, helium/hydrogen abundance predictions (nuclear fusion)
6. star formation and stellar life cycle theories
7. the second law of thermodynamics

A new discovery further strengthens #2 showing Space-time ripples left over from the Big Bang have been picked up for the first time by Harvard scientists. http://www.longecity...630#entry650381

So what?
Space was created and time began at the first moment.

1. There was no space causally prior to the universe beginning to exist
2. There was no time causally prior to the universe beginning to exist
3. There was no matter causally prior to the universe beginning to exist

All of these things began to exist at the first moment. They didn’t exist and then they did.

This fits with which religions cosmology? Perhaps this can help us decide which religion fits reality.

It is no accident that a Christian priest invented the Big Bang model. http://www.longecity...630#entry650399
http://www.catholich...th-and-science/
His name is Mgr Georges Lemaître, a Christian and Catholic priest who is the father of modern cosmology http://www.amnh.org/...p_lemaitre.html
http://answers.yahoo...10061334AAbwrBl
http://www.freerepub...n/1945606/posts
http://www.ask.com/q...big-bang-theory

Edited by shadowhawk, 19 March 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[shadowhawk]

Edited by shadowhawk, 19 March 2014 - 11:18 PM.

[shadowhawk]

Space time ripples detected giving evidence if big bang.

[theconomist]

Speaking of reality we are discussing “which religion.” I have shown several analogies so far, http://www.longecity...0#entry650187 and conclusions. http://www.longecity...0#entry650368 I then turned to the Big Bang for help because it is by far the dominant scientific cosmology today. Science cannot deal with the question of which religion but it can help us with questions of cosmology and all religions have cosmological views.

In Jewish, Christian and Islamic, religions the universe began to exist when God created it. It started and it developed and changed in time. We have argued various aspects of this as evidence for the existence of God.

What is the support for the Big Bang?

1. Einstein’s theory of general relativity, and the scientific confirmation of its accuracy
2. measurements of the cosmic microwave background radiation
3. red-shifting of light from galaxies moving away from us
4. radioactive element abundance predictions (from supernovae)
5, helium/hydrogen abundance predictions (nuclear fusion)
6. star formation and stellar life cycle theories
7. the second law of thermodynamics

A new discovery further strengthens #2 showing Space-time ripples left over from the Big Bang have been picked up for the first time by Harvard scientists. http://www.longecity...630#entry650381

So what?
Space was created and time began at the first moment.

1. There was no space causally prior to the universe beginning to exist
2. There was no time causally prior to the universe beginning to exist
3. There was no matter causally prior to the universe beginning to exist

All of these things began to exist at the first moment. They didn’t exist and then they did.

This fits with which religions cosmology? Perhaps this can help us decide which religion fits reality.

It is no accident that a Christian priest invented the Big Bang model. http://www.longecity...630#entry650399
http://www.catholich...th-and-science/
His name is Mgr Georges Lemaître, a Christian and Catholic priest who is the father of modern cosmology http://www.amnh.org/...p_lemaitre.html
http://answers.yahoo...10061334AAbwrBl
http://www.freerepub...n/1945606/posts
http://www.ask.com/q...big-bang-theory

Your statement that I have bolded implies a timeline, we know that the big bang created not only the universe but time itself. The word ''creation'' here is not fit to describe what happened since it's grammè as Derrida would say implies a before and after. It's the best we have so we use it but one must not think about these questions in terms of words.

I just wanted to point this, I'm not interested in entering a debate about the veracity of a religion.

[platypus]

How is cosmology "evidence for Christianity"?

[shadowhawk]

Speaking of reality we are discussing “which religion.” I have shown several analogies so far, http://www.longecity...0#entry650187 and conclusions. http://www.longecity...0#entry650368 I then turned to the Big Bang for help because it is by far the dominant scientific cosmology today. Science cannot deal with the question of which religion but it can help us with questions of cosmology and all religions have cosmological views.

In Jewish, Christian and Islamic, religions the universe began to exist when God created it. It started and it developed and changed in time. We have argued various aspects of this as evidence for the existence of God.

What is the support for the Big Bang?

1. Einstein’s theory of general relativity, and the scientific confirmation of its accuracy
2. measurements of the cosmic microwave background radiation
3. red-shifting of light from galaxies moving away from us
4. radioactive element abundance predictions (from supernovae)
5, helium/hydrogen abundance predictions (nuclear fusion)
6. star formation and stellar life cycle theories
7. the second law of thermodynamics

A new discovery further strengthens #2 showing Space-time ripples left over from the Big Bang have been picked up for the first time by Harvard scientists. http://www.longecity...630#entry650381

So what?
Space was created and time began at the first moment.

1. There was no space causally prior to the universe beginning to exist
2. There was no time causally prior to the universe beginning to exist
3. There was no matter causally prior to the universe beginning to exist

All of these things began to exist at the first moment. They didn’t exist and then they did.

This fits with which religions cosmology? Perhaps this can help us decide which religion fits reality.

It is no accident that a Christian priest invented the Big Bang model. http://www.longecity...630#entry650399
http://www.catholich...th-and-science/
His name is Mgr Georges Lemaître, a Christian and Catholic priest who is the father of modern cosmology http://www.amnh.org/...p_lemaitre.html
http://answers.yahoo...10061334AAbwrBl
http://www.freerepub...n/1945606/posts
http://www.ask.com/q...big-bang-theory

Your statement that I have bolded implies a timeline, we know that the big bang created not only the universe but time itself. The word ''creation'' here is not fit to describe what happened since it's grammè as Derrida would say implies a before and after. It's the best we have so we use it but one must not think about these questions in terms of words.

I just wanted to point this, I'm not interested in entering a debate about the veracity of a religion.

You are right about time. Your bolding didn't work. Does creation imply time when it is time which is being created? Anyway, thanks.