1818 replies to this topic

[shadowhawk]

 

“Blessed are those servants whom the Lord when He comes shall find watching.”?~ Luke 12:37

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by shadowhawk, 10 April 2014 - 01:18 AM.

[Jeoshua]

Hindu cosmology teaches that the universe cycles between creation and destruction, through infinite time.
    The closest cosmological model conforming to Hindu Scriptures is the eternally oscillating model of the universe.
    The oscillating model requires that the universe exist eternally into the past.
    But the evidence of the Big Bang shows the the universe, and time itself, had a beginning.

    The oscillating model requires that the expansion of the universe reverse into a collapse, (= crunch).
    In 1998, the discovery of the year was that the universe would expand forever. There will be no crunch.
    Therefore, the oscillating model is disconfirmed by observations.
    The oscillating model also faces theoretical problems with the bounce mechanism.

Actually, the currently accepted viewpoint in Science as to the "beginning" of the universe only covers what happened up to a small fraction of a second after the Big Bang. The changes that were supposed to have taken place in the span of time after that moment were extremely chaotic, with a complexity going up the close one gets to the supposed 0-time point. In other words, according to the Standard Model, if you go backwards in time, the changes come faster and faster until our math fails, and there is no accounting in this model for what happened at the exact moment of the Big Bang. It is entirely possible that the Universe did "bounce" into existence, with all of spacetime collapsing into a point that had such low entropy that it effectively formed a kind of "white hole" at that point, and it is impossible to reach back before that moment in time and space because of this.

The accelerating universe does pose a really big problem for the Kali Yuga you're talking about, tho. But who knows, it might come out some day that the acceleration is only a local phenomenon, or that there is some mechanism yet undiscovered that will cause it to reverse one day. Stranger things have happened (like the aforementioned accelerating universe and the Dark Energy theory that was invented to explain it).

Atheism also requires an eternal universe, according the Secular Humanist Manifesto:

    FIRST: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.

That's not truly Atheism tho, is it? It's Secular Humanism, which is a different animal, altogether. It's a non-religious religion by design, not a rejection of religion as inadequate to explain the Universe.

[shadowhawk]

/the first second of the big Bang is in hot debate.  There is no accepted model.  All views are debated.  I may poist more on this but this is where we are at in science helping us.  Science is almost always wrong.

 

Humanism ls largely Atheist and does reject religion.  The people I quoted are atheists.  http://www.beliefnet...ts-Believe.aspx

Edited by shadowhawk, 10 April 2014 - 01:56 AM.

[platypus]

 

 

From my perspective it is good that you have not rejected God.  Just thinking there may be an elevator to take you to the top of a building is not faith.  You need to get into the elevator and let it take you up.  Trust.  Knowing there is a democratic party does not make you a democrat.

Faith is trust.  It is a belief in a person or thing with incomplete evidence.  We all live by faith because we never have complete evidence of anything.  Faith does not mean no knowledge.  We all live by faith.  You can’t even cross a street with 100% knowledge a car is not coming.

Trust God, if you put your faith in Him, he will not reject you.  He will honor your faith.  Trust is a verb.

 

A test for evidence.

If Christianity was true, would you become a Christian? 

This works exactly the same way in all religions, so all gods must be equally true, otherwise people would not find all these gods?

 

 

[shadowhawk]

[shadowhawk]

A test for evidence.

l asked you:
“If Christianity was true, would you become a Christian? “

platypus, you answered:
“This works exactly the same way in all religions, so all gods must be equally true, otherwise people would not find all these gods?”

As we have seen, all religions are not the same.  No two believe the same whether religious or not.  Some things are not true and people believing them does not make them true.  That was not my question as you know.  If Christianity was true, would you become a Christian?

Faith however works the same for everyone including Atheists.  It matters what you put your trust in.  If Christianity was true, would you become a Christian?

Faith is trust.  It is a belief in a person or thing with incomplete evidence.  We all live by faith because we never have complete evidence of anything.  Faith does not mean no knowledge but it Is a hypotheses based on limited knowledge.  We all live by faith.  Are you open to truth if it is Christian? 

[addx]

Oh, same spewage here. Just to ruin it because it annoyed me.



Theism, 0% evidence - meaning unable to predict a single local phenomena in reality with due precision.

Atheism, 99% evidence - meaning able to predict most 99% of local phenomena in reality with due precision.




And you're trying to reduce both of these to the same level of delusion. As if the 1% lack of evidence for atheism is just the same as the 100% lack of of evidence for theism.

Theism is 100% faith - meaning completely blind.

Atheism is 1% faith - meaning almost certain.




Stop trying to abuse and relativise language, math, definitions, quotes to get around this.



If you want to use maths than it can be predicted that the 1% of lack of evidence for atheism will reduce to infitesimal amounts as we uncover more proven knowledge meaning that atheism can be observed through time to have a tendency towards 100% certainty.

Theism on the other hand is flat 0% since ever. Even the number of believers is reducing as that 0% staring them in the fact keeps getting uglier and uglier against the 99.9% of theism. So, theism has a tendency to remain at 0% certainty.


Keep your faith, just stop spewing nonsense and calling it science, logic, reason or whatever

Edited by addx, 11 April 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[addx]

Premise 1: Every natural, innate desire in us corresponds to some real object that can satisfy that desire.

We are not talking about a few mental cases, but the vast majority of the people of the world. (
The well ones)

Premise 2: But there exists in us a desire which nothing in time, nothing on earth, no creature can satisfy.

Conclusion: Therefore there must exist something more than time, earth and creatures, which can satisfy this desire.

This something is what people call "God" and "life with God forever.

If our desires are for real things, then what of our desire for God? This is not intended to be an exhaustive prove all argument. However I can tell you from personal experience that if you open your heart (the seat of that desire) He will meet you there. That is the best real evidence.

Go read that URL I gave you.

Here's a passage to demonstrate the nature of the text and to understand the depth of your mental ignorance.
 

Like awareness, language is no thing. For though it finds expression in the objective form of the spoken and written word, language as such is not itself any object. Nor do words themselves, as signifiers merely denote or represent specific objects or signifieds. The meaning of language does not lie in referring to things but in deferring meaning. Thus even in the most seemingly commonplace of everyday verbal interactions between people, and despite their apparent reference to everyday things and events, we can never pin down in words what it is that people are saying to one another as subjects - through their words, whatever these words seem to be referring to or about. Even in just referring to and talking about ourselves we are effectively using this subject word I to objectify ourselves thus forever deferring expression of our silent, subjective awareness of self.

Learn your thoughts before you make conclusions with them. Read that URL instead of laughing at it like a retard because there's a word 'tantric' in the title, understand it and then revisit. If you want to prove your theory, prove it to yourself then. Stop persuading people, noone is agreeing. Most people find your claims so ridiculous they cant even force themselves to give a meaningful reply.

You're seriously underequipped to argue your point, lacking any knowledge of neurology or psychology. It shows you made no real research and made no real attempt to understand your subjectivity and others. You're missing such a huge neccessary part to understand any of the things you're talking about.

Edited by addx, 11 April 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[shadowhawk]

With all the name calling and off topic comments I don’t feel it necessary to resound to the Logical Fallacies in the last two windy posts by addx.  Not one serious point.  He needs to read the forum guidelines and stop trying to derail the topic..  Ho humm 

[shadowhawk]

Let's go on.

 

How do you know that Christianity is the one true worldview?

https://www.youtube....WY-6xBA0Pk#t=17
 

[addx]

I'm sorry, but when I read

"How do you know that Christianity is the one true worldview?"

I see that you're in essence trying to baptise people here.

And that Im sure could be understood to fall in the basic illegal activity on the forum as state in the forum rules:

" Contributing any solicitation including but not limited to advertising, promotional materials, junk mail, spam, chain letters, pyramid schemes"

So, get your act straight. This is not and has never been a two way discussion of any use to this forum but a thread promoting Christian fundamentalism in a very sly way. The sheer number of -1s all your posts got pretty much agree with me. You did NOT open this thread truthfully prepared to change your mind if arguments to the opposite arise. So why did you open it then?

Edited by addx, 12 April 2014 - 11:03 AM.

[shadowhawk]

addx, I am, sorry you can’t read the topic.  I have repeatedly been asked why Christianity is different than other religions, including Atheism.  I am discussing which one and we have been doing this since last October.   I have not discussed Baptism.

This is the “Spirituality & Religion” section of the forum and you are telling me we can’t talk about religion?  Christianity, the last time I looked was a religion.  I guess you fancy yourself a  bully with your demand to get my act straight and the tone you have come at me with..   I have been talking about these subjects and others for over four years now and I am doing nothing everyone else does not do.

Next time why don’t you try to say something meaningful.   By the way, here are the forum rules.
USER GUIDELINES

http://www.longecity...es/#entry623817

http://www.longecity...180#entry629606

http://www.longecity...180#entry629606


 

[shadowhawk]

Are All Religions Equally Wrong?

 

 

 

 

[addx]

Yes, but you're not discussing. You're not changing your mind and you're set not to change it. You'll never accept a fallacy in your "theorem". The minute someone starts dissecting it - you start pulling on Goedel skirt and yelling protect me of god of mathematics from these infidels.

So that's pretty much it what you're doing here. And posting videos of fundamentalists. I have no better opinion on Richard Dawkins.

The purpose of this topic is for you to prove your "figuring out of things and thus your position" is better than other peoples. But in fact you're just here giving your OPINION as if it were the truth of all and you have provided as proof is a theory that you don't have to have proof because there is no real proof for anything. Its called "inductive logic" look it up, since you're abusing it to the max as explained 99% vs 0%. I beleive aristotel worked it out.

The purpose of the topic is not to discuss anything but your ability to have a better opinion or simply prove to atheists that they're "just as deluded" which is an effort to uphieve your ego by reducing others(you have true knowledge, they have false knowledge). Without this, you're just another loser with an average opinion. This is what you need to get straight, it's called introspection. Why don't you want to be another loser with an average opinion? Is your faith lesser if you don't "prove" all these things to other people?

Discussion about spirituality and religion is one thing, you're not discussing and you seem so very fundamentalist that you never intended it either, so this is not a discussion, not for you anyway. You have not commented any of the real issues with your thesis, most important are

"The ability to THINK THERE does not mean THERE exists"

From the inability to perceive this inherent ability of your mind causes you to perceive this as a feature of reality. There is always something outside the biggest circle - your thoughts simply imagine themselves to be there and thus, when your thoughts are not there, something else could be(a God), since the space must exist

From this stems your completely unsupported idea (supported only by your ability to think there) that something has to be outside the biggest circle which encompassed everything we know, matter, effect, energy, everything. But your mind can always imagine a circle with all those things inside and it can imagine itself outside of that circle. But you're just imagining hypothetical situations because your brain is unable to comprehend infinity since you're senses are unable to sense infinity and your brain is not able to store "infinity" as a "length" or "duration" information because length or duration is represented by charges in the brain corresponding the "amounts" which relate to each other in relative size and an "infinite" amount is incomprehensible, relatable, unfathomable and can not compute with intrinsic acceptable length, durations.

Goedel did not draw a circle around himself. He removed his subjective awareness(which is the one providing axioms) from his thinking because thats what mathematicians do. But they're also well aware of it and all their work is marked as depending on the axiom which makes all their work correct if you apply it within systems that are built on such an axiom. A universe is not such a system, it is not built on a human conceived axiom. You're completely ignoring this fact. You made no attempt to explain how you got around that fact. You compiled a list of "analogies" like "the universe is a finite state machine" to equalise them to a human invented system. A human invented system always depends on something out side. But the universe is not a human invented system. A human invented system is always within the bounds of the universe. And thus can never be isolated from the rest of the universe.

There is no desire from you to discuss thin line of thought at all, while in fact this line of thought is well accepted even among eastern religions. The inabilities and abilities of the mind are well known to buddhism and similar religions. Theistic religions make no attempt to enable the individual to find his path on his own, they rather brainwash him into a fear of god to make him succumb to a set of rules which have historically been enforced as societal laws of stronger or weaker influence. Atheistic religions have never forcibly installed themselves and have never installed any laws while providing much more spiritual awareness and wellbeing to their followers.

The catholic church has become the worlds bigger owner of real-estate, harborer of pedophiles. 30% of priests in Croatia, one of the more catholic countries in the world have kids and lovers. And this is just heritage from earlier times, since when the popes had lovers and were even pedophile. So please stop telling people this the one and only truth. Keep your faith, but please don't try and prove that people have to send their kids to pedophile priests for this truth. This forum is mainly inhabited by rational people and this is hardly the place for you to post religious fundamendalist videos.

You have not commented my first post ever except saying that its logical and well reasoned and you'll reply later. There was never a reply but rather another wave of Gobel. So, that was NOT discussing.

You can quote me forums rules, I don't give a crap if I get banned, although I doubt this will do it. Your intentions with these threads are not honest and you know it.


Religion could be discusses in quite a different manner. For example, I could say that I find islam daily post quite a useful wellbeing behaviour, good for the psyche, teaches the people value of food and installs humility to such things. It also shows the poor people that rich also starve during the day and it makes them equal in a way. This is nice talk. I could also say that Allah is the only god and post fundamental videos. This is not nice talk.

Edited by addx, 13 April 2014 - 03:31 PM.

[addx]

KALAAM COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR GODS EXISTENCE 2.

1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

2) The universe began to exist.

There, another failure at understanding ones mind. This is seriously retarded already.

There is nothing to prove those 2 statements.

Yet there is everything to prove that the human brain can not FATHOM that something existed forever.

Are you seriously that daft that you can't comprehend that the brain is a computer and it has no ability to process "infinity" or "forever"?

The space is a finite state machine and yet your brain is something special? It is not a computer but some divine spirit making decisions and processing logic?

Edited by addx, 13 April 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[addx]

Bate and change topic is what you do. And thats not a legal activity. And basicly each person involved in this thread told you the same after trying to discuss.

Edited by addx, 13 April 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[addx]

What did God do for me? God loved me so much that He sought me and came into my world.

Yes, yes, I'm familiar with the story of jesus christ, but the meat of my question is not how he came into THE world, but how he came into YOUR world. Of course, if the question is too personal you may decline to answer, but I know of jesus, what I don't know of is you, and your story. That, here, is what interests me the most.

When I became a Christian I was surprised by joy. Everything changed. Colors were more saturated, like after a rain, when the sum just comes out. I was in love with God and my heart was bursting with wonderment. My heart was excited and warm, I was in a love relationship with God. I didnt have a clue of what it meant to be a Christian but I was afraid of what my friends would think, especially after the animal I had been. All my friends thought Christians were nuts. At first I could not tell anyone because of fear what they would think.

I thought Christians had to pray at their meals and I thought they got on their knees every night and said a little prayer. I was in a battalion of gnarley men. Well I stopped eating so I would not have to let anyone see me praying. I starved myself half to death. I was too afraid to get down on my knees before I turned in for the night. I didnt expect God to answer my prayer and when He did, I was I a fix if I did anything about it.

To make a long story short, I started asking grace at my meals and I would pray every night. It created a huge reaction and many became Christians. When I got out of the military I went back to school.

God has been a mystery to me beyond words. How do you put into words your hearts deepest love. There are no words for it.

It is hard to describe.

I saw a tree and saw how beautiful it is, its existance, its providing of life, its magnificent structure. Most of all, I did not want to take this beauty but I felt blessed to just be able to wittness it. I would not conceive of taking it. I saw people as beautiful children of the same happy family. I listened to them speak and gazed in their eyes freely sincerely interested to hear the experience this person will transfer. The voice of the other person completely filled my mind as she spoke and my entire being was involved into this transfer ot the other persons consciousness. There was no expectation out of the conversation on my side. Completely free of any pressure to look good while talking, not get screwed, not say something stupid, be polite, none of that, while at the same time I also did not accidentaly do any of those things even though I didnt "censor myself". As the person stopped speaking a perfect/wise answer came out of me.
At that time I also felt a feeling I dont remember feeling, maybe as child perahps. A feeling of content and groundedness. I felt as a person of this earth equal and full of humility and bliss for having this existence. I felt I had no purpose, nothing driving me, but that I am just here and have all the options to enjoy life and grow even more of it, be useful.

This event that lasted 30-60 minutes was initated once during a hypomanic phase, a UTI just starting a fever. Before the event I was in a weird state where my body wanted to "go away from where it was". Like this "emotionless impatient urge to simply GO". When I was sitting it manifested as complete unrest, I had to move my legs and arms, basicly hold myself for the computer to finish my work. After I decided to go to my wife to drive me to the ER as I felt the UTI fever rising I smoked a whif of a left over joint and this immediately removed the "must move" feeling and transfered it into what was explained above. Just to not, I'm a 15 year every day pot smoker and the above text has nothing to do with pot intoxication. That was a one time experience for me that I'm sure required all 3 ingrediens - the one single hypomania I had, the UTI fever and THC.

This single event got me started researching on everything because I could not forget how a person CAN feel and how the brain can provide an emotion of loving something without having any urge to posess it. It taught me how beautiful it is to let people speak into your mind and to hear them as people, not as speakers, objects that will perform something for you. It taught me that there is a chemical feeling of "safety in civilization and contentness". And it took me a year and half to figure it all out, how it all works, what brains parts do that, how they evolved and why is it all like that.



What you did is rationalize it to "God" and you're now telling people "you just have to open your heart".

While I do actually agree in some way, the point it, it can not simply be done. Besides getting hit by a ball and causing a brain abnormality. You can placebo it for a while, but God is not the one who creates those feelings of contentness. Nor did he create the body parts that do it, evolution did.

Now, while people are actually trying to figure some of these things out, you're here trying to prove a lie for some strange purpose. The people that you manage to persuade have a good chance of turning that persuasion into a short term benefit but they'll eventually either give it up or end up fully deluded as you depending on persuading other people because the placebo doesnt work for them anymore.

There is a way to pharamcologicaly restore the brain to a more "aware" position, less fearful position, more gaze accepting position. There is probably a way to do it mentally as the eastern religions mostly focus on it.

But theistic religion is just a placebo in that sense, so it ends up increasingly spreading through population by force(powered by the growing realisation of the lie behind it and the need to hide it by telling others they're wrong and making them accept it) evident from medieval crusades to your activities here on the forum. No atheistic religion was ever spread by means of force. No atheistic religion depends on a mass accumulation of wealth(and vote casting zombies) to uphold its truth. So you see, theistic religions and Christianity as the number one amongst them are the cancer of menthal health, and example of what NOT to do, an example of how to build empires without ever knowing why you did it, an example of how to destroy life in the name or protecting ego-invested delusions.


You see we had the opposite upbringing obviously, I was forced to church although it was not something I hated, except when I wanted to sleep in. It was mostly boring, but there were friends there and we even played soccer with the priests on sunday. The priest who did all my sacraments also married me and his soul is truly a nice clean soul, he is truly a good person.

Don't think "God" is what provides the feeling you "opened up" to. It's not God. They are very nice feelings, if you felt what I felt for a short glimpse but very intensely I can contrast "normalcy" against it and when I do, I get "buddhism" as it was written by buddha. I was quite sure that at that time I felt like buddha.
I know seriously what I'm talking about. I have accumulated much experience of many mental states over the years, for example, that of Ketamine always induces a "sacred presence" sensation you wouldnt beleive it, and higher doses cause out of body experience identical to people who experience clinical death, and the experience written above, where not like anything I experienced ever.

So, instead of telling people lies why dont you expend energy to finding the truth. The fact that you can abuse some theorem or whatever doesnt really result in anything. What you did to yourself is placebo yourself. You can't transfer that as knowledge. It doesnt work. It ends up you telling people to "BELIEVE HARDER". As does every self-help class ever created.

[shadowhawk]

Addx,  You need a Tantric tool adjustment.  Not interested in your attempt to derail the topic with this windbag stuff.  Have a nice day.

 

addx:  "You can quote me forums rules, I don't give a crap if I get banned, although I doubt this will do it." 

 

Me to.  http://www.longecity...e-6#entry648240

Edited by shadowhawk, 14 April 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[addx]

Addx,  You need a Tantric tool adjustment.  Not interested in your attempt to derail the topic with this windbag stuff.  Have a nice day.

Im not really writing to you, Im writing simply to show this thread for what it is so no more flies get caught into your webs of bating and changing the subject and ignoring comments.

You're not really interested in anything anyone has to say that doesn't suit you. So I don't really give a flying f. what you're interested in. I was interested in a 2 way discussion, but this was never it, you fooled me and everyone who ever joined this topic.
And Im bored now, so Ill have my fun with this thread now, and it quite deserves it.

You can pretend to be polite, but your intentions are not nice or polite. This a troll thread, all your posts have on average -2 or -3 attached to them and I didn't even vote once yet. So why don't you add that up with simple arithmetic, you don't need theorems that you can't even understand. Add it all up to a nice -100 for your thread, your persona and your ability to honestly discuss anything and call it quits.

[shadowhawk]

addx:  "Im not really writing to you, Im writing simply to show this thread for what it is so no more flies get caught into your webs of bating and changing the subject and ignoring comments."

 

You don't mind if I don't relate to you because we have had lots of discussion of the topic.  I know you want to derail the topic "IS THERE EVIDENCE FIR CHRISTIANITY???" so I pass.  Not interested and off topic,

Edited by shadowhawk, 14 April 2014 - 08:24 PM.

[shadowhawk]

HOW DO EASTERN AND WESTERN RELIGIONS DIFFER???

 

 

 

 

[shadowhawk]

Which beliefs are closer to Christianity?  In order of closeness.

Traditional Judaism, which worships the same God but not via Christ.

Islam, greatest of the theistic heresies.

Hinduism, a mystical pantheism, some monotheism;

Buddhism, a pantheism without a theos;

Modern Judaism, Unitarianism, Confucianism, Modernism, and secular humanism, none of which     have either mysticism or supernatural religion but only ethics;

Idolatry;

Satanism.

Agnosticism, hard, soft;

Atheism
 

Edited by shadowhawk, 14 April 2014 - 08:55 PM.

[shadowhawk]

PASSOVER TONIGHT.

 

Introduction

The festival of the Passover has been celebrated by Jews for thousands of years. It is the retelling of the great story of how God redeemed the Jewish nation from enslavement in Egypt. The celebration itself was given to the Jews while they were still in Egypt. The original celebration centered around the Passover lamb, which was sacrificed and its blood put over the doorposts as a sign of faith, so that the Lord passed over the houses of the Jews during the last plague poured out on the Egyptians - the killing of every firstborn. To a large degree, the Passover lamb has been eliminated from the Passover festival (with the only remnant being the roasted lamb shank bone). The New Testament says that Jesus is our sacrificial Lamb. The Passover lamb was to be a "male without defect," which is the same description given to Jesus. In addition, when the lamb was roasted and eaten, none of its bones were to be broken.⁸ This fact was also prophesized for the Messiah, whose bones were not to be broken. It was customary during crucifixion to break the leg bones of the person after a few hours in order to hasten their death. The only way a person could breathe when hanging on a cross was to push up with his legs, which was very exhausting. By breaking the legs, death followed soon by asphyxiation. However, in the case of Jesus, they broke the legs of the other two men, but did not break His, since He was already dead.

Passover symbolism

Much of the symbolism of Jesus' last Passover week is lost to us because we are unaware of the customs of the time. For example, Jesus came into the city of Jerusalem five days before the lamb was killed in the temple as the Passover sacrifice for the sins of the people of Israel. Five days before the lamb was to be sacrificed, it was chosen. Therefore, Jesus entered Jerusalem on lamb selection day as the lamb of God. The people did not understand the significance of this, since they greeted Him with palm branches and hailed Him as King, shouting "Hosanna," which means "save us." However, they were not looking for a spiritual Savior, but a political savior. Palm branches were a symbol of freedom and defiance, since Simon Maccabeus had entered Jerusalem with that symbolism. Jesus' reaction was to weep, since He realized that they did not understand the Messiah's purpose in coming.

Passover sacrifice

The day Jesus was crucified was the day of the Passover celebration and the day that the Passover lamb was to be sacrificed. For the previous 1,200 years, the priest would blow the shophar (ram's horn) at 3:00 p.m. - the moment the lamb was sacrificed, and all the people would pause to contemplate the sacrifice for sins on behalf of the people of Israel. At 3:00, when Jesus was being crucified, He said, "It is finished"¹⁸ - at the moment that the Passover lamb was sacrificed and the shophar was blown from the Temple. The sacrifice of the lamb of God was fulfilled at the hour that the symbolic animal sacrifice usually took place. At the same time, the veil of the Temple (a three-inch thick, several story high cloth that demarked the Holy of Holies) tore from top to bottom - representing a removal of the separation between God and man. Fifty days later, on the anniversary of the giving of the law (Pentecost), God left the earthly temple to inhabit those who call on the name of Jesus through His Holy Spirit.

Burial

The festival of unleavened bread began Friday evening (at sunset). As part of the festival, the Jews would take some of the grain - the "first fruits" of their harvest - to the Temple to offer as a sacrifice. In so doing, they were offering God all they had and trusting Him to proved the rest of the harvest. It was at this point that Jesus was buried - planted in the ground - as He said right before His death. Paul refers to Jesus as the first fruits of those raised from the dead in 1 Corinthians.²³ As such, Jesus represents the fulfillment of God's promise to provide the rest of the harvest - resurrection of those who follow the Messiah.

Resurrection

Christian symbolism in the Passover occurs early in the Seder (the Passover dinner). Three matzahs are put together (representing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). The middle matzah is broken, wrapped in a white cloth, and hidden, representing the death and burial of Jesus. The matzah itself is designed to represent Jesus, since it is striped and pierced, which was prophesized by Isaiah,  David, and Zechariah. Following the Seder meal, the "buried" matzah is "resurrected," which was foretold in the prophecies of David.

Christian communion

It was during a Passover seder that Jesus proclaimed that the meal represented Himself and that He was instituting the New Covenant, which was foretold by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah. The celebration of this covenant has become the ordinance of communion in the Christian Church. At the end of the meal, Jesus took the unleavened bread, broke it, and said that it represented His body. Then He took the cup of wine, which would have been the third cup of the Seder - the cup of redemption. He said that it was the new covenant in His blood "poured out for you." It is through the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that we are declared clean before God, allowing those of us who choose to accept the pardon, to commune with Him - both now and forevermore through the eternal life He offers.

Conclusion

If you are a Christian, I encourage you to celebrate the Passover with your friends and neighbors. Our family has been doing this for the last six years and have used the celebration as a way of sharing the gospel of Christ in a fun and non-threatening manner

[addx]

addx:  "Im not really writing to you, Im writing simply to show this thread for what it is so no more flies get caught into your webs of bating and changing the subject and ignoring comments."
 
You don't mind if I don't relate to you because we have had lots of discussion of the topic.  I know you want to derail the topic "IS THERE EVIDENCE FIR CHRISTIANITY???" so I pass.  Not interested and off topic,

You're declaring that any arguments against your ideas are off topic and derailing as you see fit.



This is just from the last few pages, same response from other people:

 

Or a continuation of one of the longest-lived unpunished sessions of continuous and successful trolling. Seriously, this is just too perfect, I think it's an attempt at Guiness.

This is not really a topic. The only things that needed saying were said at the beginning. The fact that they have been ignored by SH is neither here nor there. They were said. They were sufficient; beyond that point we are just encouraging him to play with himself.

Oh dear! I've been away for two weeks in the sun and the topic still hasn't improved. I don't suppose it ever will: SH will just go on demanding the impossible and, as was pointed out above, triumphantly maintaining his preposterous position in defiance of everybody else's demands for common sense, honesty and a coherent interpretation.

You are apparently incapable of reasoning by analogy or refuse to do so. Rather than address points, you dismiss them as off-topic or as red herrings even when it is clear to everyone that they are relevant to the topic being discussed.

I am amazed at how long this thread has been so far and what kind of endurance some users have in answering shadowhawk.

We should all ignore ShadowHawk, because he's proven himself to be a very poor debater, unwilling to concede in the least any faults in his arguments, or see the merits of other people's points.

So why continue with him?

Most of the things you say, even your syntax, seem quite ridiculous and even incoherent. So since you don't respond differently if approached in a more serious, reasonable manner, there is no reason to make any effort beyond jokes and sarcasm.

Your mind seems to be set: atheists are stupid, atheists are ignorant, atheists are irrational, etc

I have more than a decade's experience in this. If it acts like a bigot, if it talks like a fundy, if it's unresponsive to respectful dialogue, then it is not worthy of any serious time and effort of mine. Engage it only for my own entertainment or the entertainment of others, or for offering information to other people lurking the thread. If engage it at all.

I believe there is not a single person that communicated in this thread that actually understood you as a having an ability to reason or discuss.





To further my point, my own first post to the other thread, I tried to process both options simultaneously and explain them as evident here and I think I made a case, you have also commented it as such
 

There is evidence for atheism only if you accept that ageing is a basic form of altruism neccessary for sexual selection of eukaryotes. It evolved into advanced forms of altruism as selection mechanisms evolved.

The "gene pool" is the first evolved meta-entity to "source" altruism. Eukaryotes sacrifice their asexual reproduction for access to the gene pool. Gene pool only lets mature fit individuals access it. And eventually starts rejecting those that can reproduce asexually. After all in the gene pool have lost asexual reproduction(in favour building the multicellular body rathat than breed) they have subscribed and become hostages of the gene pool or "obligatory sociality".

The "knowledge pool"(mammals) is the second evolved meta-entity to "source" altruism. Spread of knowledge(behaviour) again requires sociality and is not spread by genes.

Subscription to and sacrifice for these two entities is what gives meaning to life of subhuman animals.

Humans evolved individuality which enables us to take knowledge from multiple knowledge pools and give it back. We are infact also motivated to do this and our motivation depends on our perception of such knowledge being useful(which infact means, reproductible, teachable, others want to know it). Useful knowledge will either motivate to teach it or use it. Either behavior will cause spread. Humans have unwittingly become pawns in evolution of knowledge.

As have multicellular bodies been pawns in evolution of form.

Subhumans have no perception of usefullness of knowledge(which is infact possession - a validated way to control something is posesion of it. The way to control is knowledge. Having such knowledge - of posesssion makes your ego big) except in the moment - they just behave and learn vicariously. Usefuless of knowledge is infact always judged against others. There is no useful knowledge on a deserted island giving rise to typical insanity(stemming meaninglessness from lack of perception of any reward).


Both evolutions (of genes and knowledge) require sacrifice to evolve. Genes need to be tested. Knowledge needs to be tested(applied and proven to work). This embedded sacrifice is the platform for observable altruism in species, even humans.

It gave rise to religion which actually recognized this process to be what it is. Be nice, share, breed, have kids, raise them well. That's it. All you need to do. And that is how mother nature programmed us to feel well and this will make most people die well and happy. Religion was built on this, they stole it from mother nature and said God did it. The nice feelings are from God.

But it's not that easy, evolution will make some of us feel pressured for more(especially in dense populations). If we survive, we evolved the knowledge pool(could also be called "posession pool" or "control method pool"), if not, we did our best. Someone else will try again. Such driven people end up wasting a lot of resources on a "dream". They may or may not make it. Some are more some less delusional, but without such people we would mostly stagnate. Religion has the idea that such people should be shot down and destroyed.

If you do not accept this line of thought you have to accept theism. The only 3rd option is Dawknins meaninglessness, but meaninglessness would result in emotionlessness and it doesnt, does it? So we can blind ourselves and say, emotions are just some obsolete thing from lower life forms, we dont need them, but infact you'd hardly be talking here if you didnt have them. The biggest problem with building an AI is in fact creating instrinsic incetive to actually do anything. Why would it talk to a person, what does it have to gain? If you just force it then it's not really an AI is it? People exhachange knowledge that they think is useful (most of you probably spent some time ignoring people talking about stuff you dont think is important). What would be useful for an AI? It can not "sense" usefulness.

Usefulness is sensed as chance of increasing control level. When applied and successful control level is increased. What is controlled? When you work it out to the end -> always people. The final end point of any control attempt is controlling people. Noone would invent anything if they didnt have anyone to show it to who would appreciate it. It can even be yourself(bettering yourself, your control of a car for example), but in the end, how you "invented yourself" is again something that you show to others and attract envy and awe as validation.

So, either we're all here playing for a gene-pool and knowledge-pools or we're playing for God. But we are players, pawns and that's it, disposable.

Very interesting. On topic and reasoned. No logical fallacies. I don't have time right now to respond.

You have never actually found time to respond, but as soon as I commented a claim of yours you immediately found plenty of time to respond to that. This is called "bait and switch" and is an illegal form of discussion exactly explained like this in the rules which I believe you even quoted(the same ones depicting strawman arguments). This entire thread is a bait and switch because you're not allowing any discussion unless YOUR points are being discussed. Mine and others are 'forgotten', 'pushed aside', by huge fonts titles of url videos od halfwits trying abuse scientific theorems to prove their mother and father wrong or whatever.

My honest and well thought out response was left neglected in favour of you regurgitating your nonsense AGAIN and leading the discussion back to you logical fallacies which you wont admit no matter how or how many people explain it to you. Your rhetoric is absolute and does not allow anyone even a remote chance of having a valid argument and thus you are annoyed when someone thinks he has presented one. As soon as people detect this manipulation they start talking to you like the deluded halfwit you are and you start getting more and more offended which suits you as an excuse because the unanswered arguments grow bigger and bigger. Each person told you this.

The end point is,

YOU dont beleive in God. You have no faith. You're trying to find it here.

And it stems from issues with your upbringing. Repressed weakness(you being wrong) produces compensatory strength compulsions (proving other people wrong) resulting in trolling like this. The purpose of such discussions is to restore your emotional balance and the exterior motif(atheism or christianity) is just an object to project your issues on and will not benefit from the energy expanded on it.



You had to do the opposite from your family. Such an evolutionary state has actually been predicted by my first post which you basically ignored. It's just that your family was atheist so evolution for you meant moving away from that - to theism. It was then important to prove that your moving away was a move in the right direction. It was important to prove that your knowledge is an evolution from your families knowledge. No matter how many fact you have to ignore, people you have to piss off, how many truths you have to blind yourself to.


So, while this personal drama is quite interesting in some ways it is NOT, in any way, a worthy contribution to this forum and what it is about and I feel absolutely morally and ethically free to say whatever I like here.

Ho-hummm, whatever.

Edited by addx, 15 April 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[shadowhawk]

Ho Humm addx, Not interested in your bigoted raves.  By the way, you are quoting from a different topic,  "Is There Evidence For Atheism??" which I also started.  Off topic here. 

Edited by shadowhawk, 15 April 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[shadowhawk]

What Distinguishes Monotheisms From Other Religions?

 

 

Edited by shadowhawk, 15 April 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[addx]

Too bad, I'm all you got, hahaahah

[shadowhawk]

Too bad, I'm all you got, hahaahah

 

Hardly anything new.  Adjust your tool for your childish ad hominems and rave on.  Bigots are like that.  It has been done before.  You are just the latest to try to derail the topic.

http://www.longecity...e-6#entry648240

http://www.longecity...e-6#entry656447


 

[shadowhawk]

Jesus among other Gods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[addx]

Catholic church basically grows bigotry, so you should know. The scroll documenting that Jesus did in fact have a wife(Mary Magdalena) which was converted from a whore(this part is known and reduced to suit the church) was confirmed to be true.

Madonna-whore complex is a typical symptom of personality disorders, mainly NPD and BPD. NPDers have issues with projecting whores to most women while BPDers do the opposite, project madonnas onto whores in order to make them worthy of saving(in reality it is an opportunity to possess a person that sparks this).

Saving a whore from her life is the typical dream of most insecure personality disordered men(there is a similar theme with women, and BPD being more common in women explains why women tend to look for projects rather than grown men). The
general saviour complex which matures at about the age when Jesus started preaching is also a symptom of the same disorder - BPD. The very same one Nietzsche suffered from and pretty much went berserk at the same age. They have in fact suffered the same pain but compensated differently.

The scrolls documenting Jesuses wife have been now confirmed as the bible itself, so, how does the christianity evidence look now? 2000 years being misled by the very people you trust without a shred of evidence.

There is no proof of resurrection and there probably never will be, but there are great indications of a personality disorder of the historical, merely human, Jesus.



So, an institution that has historically held back knowledge, burned scientists(and their own lovers), lied about Jesus being married, edited the bible and still harbours and protects pedophiles is not something to have faith in. Among catholic priests there is a greater number of both homosexuals(I don't mind homosexuality, but the topic is bigotry so this is key) and pedophiles than in the average or atheistic population. The very same institution responsible for this is at the same time proclaiming goodness and whatnot. So, wanna talk about bigotry?


http://en.wikipedia....atholic_priests
 

Asked if a "homosexual subculture" (defined as a "definite group of persons that has its own friendships, social gatherings and vocabulary") existed in their diocese or religious order, 17 percent of the priests said "definitely," and 27 percent said "probably." 53 percent of priests who were ordained in the last 20 years (1982-2002) affirmed such a subculture existed in the seminary when they attended.[14]

More bigotry?

http://en.wikipedia....sex_abuse_cases
 

The results made public in 2004 showed that even after the public outcry, priests were moved out of the countries where they had been accused and were still in "settings that bring them into contact with children, despite church claims to the contrary".[1] Among the investigation's findings is that nearly half of 200 cases "involved clergy who tried to elude law enforcement."[1]

So, I don't want to be associated to such an institution and I don't believe a word they say. And I do believe I have grounds for that. And evidence? What evidence? There's no evidence.

Jesus may have been a historic figure no more divine than Muhammed. That's it. As far as I'm concerned the bible is a collection of old Jewish tales similar to Iliad and Odyssey and the New Testament is a single romantic story of a personality disordered individual.

My local priest is a great person and it has been an honour to marry my wife in my local church by the good man that the priest is. But this is not a rule, far from it. Priests here, aside from typical accusations are also notorious for demanding money to "bless your home" each year(you get a nice sticker on the door for it) etc. It's becoming more and more of a business and in fact Church is the biggest real estate holder in the world. All tax free

Edited by addx, 15 April 2014 - 08:17 PM.