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IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY???

christianity religion spirituality

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#1111 shadowhawk

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:56 PM

FAITH

Unreasonable Faith
Believing in something IN SPITE of the evidence. We hold an unreasonable faith when we refuse to accept or acknowledge evidence that exists, is easily accessible and clearly refutes what we believe.  Where is the evidence for the faith of Name Callers?

Blind Faith
Believing in something WITHOUT any evidence. We hold a blind faith when we accept something even though there is no evidence to support beliefs. We don’t search for ANY evidence that either supports or refutes what we are determined to believe.  This is the faith of an Atheist.

Reasonable Faith
Believing in something BECAUSE of the evidence. We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists.
 



#1112 shadowhawk

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:18 PM

Miracles by Matt Rawlings
“Atheist evangelist Richard Dawkins once stated, “The Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, The Raising of Lazarus, the manifestations of Mary and the Saints around the Catholic world. Even the Old Testament miracles, all are freely used for religious propaganda, and very effective they are with an audience of unsophisticates and children.”  Isn’t he sweet!

But Dawkins simply expressed, in a snarky tone, the beliefs of materialists.  Naturalists assert that miracles are contrary to science, so miracles are impossible.  But this is actually a logical error known as a categorical mistake.  Science is not designed to measure the supernatural.  Thus, saying science has eliminated the possibility of miracles is like saying, “there is no beauty because I can’t weigh it.”

Miracles, by there very nature, are one time events while science relies on recurring events that can be measured under similar circumstances. Thus, miracles really fall more under the rubric of history and even Dawkins admits there is “some” evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which we will look at later.  It doesn’t mean miracles are contrary to science, they just lie outside of it.

Some atheists argue that miracles are so extraordinary that they require extraordinary historical evidence.  But picking the right lottery numbers are extraordinary, so is an asteroid buzzing Russia, are we not expected to believe news reports about these phenomenon? Of course not!

But if miracles are something that you as a believer or seeker stumble over, I would highly recommend picking up Miracles by C.S. Lewis.  The book is a bit dated but is still a wonderful read although it is a bit denser than anything else I have read by the late, great Oxford Don.”



#1113 DukeNukem

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:36 PM

These "miracles" where all commonly performed at the time that Jesus supposedly lived by many roaming prophets.  And there was a whole class of healers and mystics at this period of time who performed miracles as a way to enhance their reputation as healers, who could then cure diseases like leprosy.  Many of them would raise people from the dead -- and of course it was all a set-up, designed to wow the crowd and display incredible magic powers.  This was their way to advertise their "powers" to drum up paying business.

 

In fact, even in the Bible itself, Jesus is not the only person performing "miracles."

 

Note that there are street magicians in Vegas today who can totally deceive the average person, even to the point of walking on water and levitating in mid-air.  Imagine in the time of Jesus how easily good magicians could fool the crowds.  And they did.  And these magical "miracles" are now the basis for the great power of Jesus, because he could turn water into wine and heal a paralyzed man -- dead easy tricks for any magician of the time.

 

But, people where bamboozled then, and they're still bamboozled now.

 

Basically, there's not a single thing in the Bible that is evidence for Christianity, just as there's not a single thing in any of the Harry Potter books that's evidence for Harry Potter being real.

 

 

 

SOME MIRACLES OF CHRIST

http://www.ccel.org/.../jfb/JFB00F.htm
http://www.ccel.org/.../jfb/JFB00F.htm


    1. Born to a virgin - Miracles of Jesus

    2. Changing water into wine - Miracles of Jesus

    3. Healing of the royal official's son - Miracles of Jesus

    4. Healing of the Capernaum demoniac - Miracles of Jesus

    5. Healing of Peter's mother-in-law - Miracles of Jesus

    6. Healing the sick during the evening - Miracles of Jesus

    7. Catching a large number of fish - Miracles of Jesus

    8. Healing a leper - Miracles of Jesus

    9. Miracle of healing a centurion's servant - Miracles of Jesus

    10. Healing a paralyzed man - Miracles of Jesus

    11. Healing a withered hand - Miracles of Jesus

    12. Raising a widow's son - Miracles of Jesus

    13. Calming the storm - Miracles of Jesus

    14. Healing the Gerasene man possessed by demons - Miracles of Jesus

    15. Healing a woman with internal bleeding - Miracles of Jesus

    16. Raising Jairus' daughter - Miracles of Jesus

    17. Healing two blind men - Miracles of Jesus

    18. Healing a mute demon-possessed man - Miracles of Jesus

    19. Healing a 38 year invalid - Miracles of Jesus

    20. Feeding 5000 men and their families - Miracles of Jesus

    21. Walking on water - Miracles of Jesus

    22. Miraculous healing of many people in Gennesaret

    23. Healing a girl possessed by a demon - Miracles of Jesus

    24. Healing a deaf man with a speech impediment - Miracles of Jesus

    25. Feeding the 4,000 men and their families - Miracles of Jesus

    26. Healing a blind man - Miracles of Jesus

    27. Healing a man born blind - Miracles of Jesus

    28. Healing a demon-possessed boy - Miracles of Jesus

    29. Catching a fish with a coin in its mouth - Miracles of Jesus

    30. Healing a blind and mute man who was demon-possessed - Miracles of Jesus

    31. Healing a woman with an 18-year infirmity - Miracles of Jesus

    32. Healing a man with dropsy - Miracles of Jesus

    33. Healing 10 lepers - Miracles of Jesus

    34. Raising of Lazarus - Miracles of Jesus

    35. Healing Bartimaeus of blindness - Miracles of Jesus

    36. Jesus curses the fig tree with no fruit - Miracles of Jesus

    37. Restoring a severed ear - Miracles of Jesus

    38. The resurrection of Jesus - Miracles of Jesus

    39. Catching 153 fish - Miracles of Jesus

    40. The ascension of Jesus - Miracles of Jesus
 

 


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#1114 Lewis Carroll

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:14 PM

FAITH

Unreasonable Faith
Believing in something IN SPITE of the evidence. We hold an unreasonable faith when we refuse to accept or acknowledge evidence that exists, is easily accessible and clearly refutes what we believe.  Where is the evidence for the faith of Name Callers?

Blind Faith
Believing in something WITHOUT any evidence. We hold a blind faith when we accept something even though there is no evidence to support beliefs. We don’t search for ANY evidence that either supports or refutes what we are determined to believe.  This is the faith of an Atheist.

Reasonable Faith
Believing in something BECAUSE of the evidence. We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists.
 

 

 

Well, you definitely fall into the first two categories (particularly "Unreasonable Faith"). The third... not so much.

 

 "We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists."

^^I am assuming "Reasonable Faith" is where you would categorize yourself? It baffles me the you would really have the audacity to say that.



#1115 Lewis Carroll

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:22 PM

These "miracles" where all commonly performed at the time that Jesus supposedly lived by many roaming prophets.  And there was a whole class of healers and mystics at this period of time who performed miracles as a way to enhance their reputation as healers, who could then cure diseases like leprosy.  Many of them would raise people from the dead -- and of course it was all a set-up, designed to wow the crowd and display incredible magic powers.  This was their way to advertise their "powers" to drum up paying business.

 

In fact, even in the Bible itself, Jesus is not the only person performing "miracles."

 

Note that there are street magicians in Vegas today who can totally deceive the average person, even to the point of walking on water and levitating in mid-air.  Imagine in the time of Jesus how easily good magicians could fool the crowds.  And they did.  And these magical "miracles" are now the basis for the great power of Jesus, because he could turn water into wine and heal a paralyzed man -- dead easy tricks for any magician of the time.

 

But, people where bamboozled then, and they're still bamboozled now.

 

Basically, there's not a single thing in the Bible that is evidence for Christianity, just as there's not a single thing in any of the Harry Potter books that's evidence for Harry Potter being real.

 

 

 

SOME MIRACLES OF CHRIST

http://www.ccel.org/.../jfb/JFB00F.htm
http://www.ccel.org/.../jfb/JFB00F.htm


    1. Born to a virgin - Miracles of Jesus

    2. Changing water into wine - Miracles of Jesus

    3. Healing of the royal official's son - Miracles of Jesus

    4. Healing of the Capernaum demoniac - Miracles of Jesus

    5. Healing of Peter's mother-in-law - Miracles of Jesus

    6. Healing the sick during the evening - Miracles of Jesus

    7. Catching a large number of fish - Miracles of Jesus

    8. Healing a leper - Miracles of Jesus

    9. Miracle of healing a centurion's servant - Miracles of Jesus

    10. Healing a paralyzed man - Miracles of Jesus

    11. Healing a withered hand - Miracles of Jesus

    12. Raising a widow's son - Miracles of Jesus

    13. Calming the storm - Miracles of Jesus

    14. Healing the Gerasene man possessed by demons - Miracles of Jesus

    15. Healing a woman with internal bleeding - Miracles of Jesus

    16. Raising Jairus' daughter - Miracles of Jesus

    17. Healing two blind men - Miracles of Jesus

    18. Healing a mute demon-possessed man - Miracles of Jesus

    19. Healing a 38 year invalid - Miracles of Jesus

    20. Feeding 5000 men and their families - Miracles of Jesus

    21. Walking on water - Miracles of Jesus

    22. Miraculous healing of many people in Gennesaret

    23. Healing a girl possessed by a demon - Miracles of Jesus

    24. Healing a deaf man with a speech impediment - Miracles of Jesus

    25. Feeding the 4,000 men and their families - Miracles of Jesus

    26. Healing a blind man - Miracles of Jesus

    27. Healing a man born blind - Miracles of Jesus

    28. Healing a demon-possessed boy - Miracles of Jesus

    29. Catching a fish with a coin in its mouth - Miracles of Jesus

    30. Healing a blind and mute man who was demon-possessed - Miracles of Jesus

    31. Healing a woman with an 18-year infirmity - Miracles of Jesus

    32. Healing a man with dropsy - Miracles of Jesus

    33. Healing 10 lepers - Miracles of Jesus

    34. Raising of Lazarus - Miracles of Jesus

    35. Healing Bartimaeus of blindness - Miracles of Jesus

    36. Jesus curses the fig tree with no fruit - Miracles of Jesus

    37. Restoring a severed ear - Miracles of Jesus

    38. The resurrection of Jesus - Miracles of Jesus

    39. Catching 153 fish - Miracles of Jesus

    40. The ascension of Jesus - Miracles of Jesus
 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

"Basically, there's not a single thing in the Bible that is evidence for Christianity"

 

^^There is zero evidence in the Bible for Christianity. In fact, I would say there is "evidence" in the Bible that disproves Christianity. How can the Bible be the Word Of God yet contain information that is simply wrong. If there is information that is improbable or simply incorrect, would that not call the rest of the Bible (as well as Christianity in its entirety) in to question regarding its legitimacy?



#1116 serp777

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 03:58 AM

Shadowhawk i can provide eexactly the same meaningless evidence for mohammed. It's your favortie thing: "historical evidence". There's the Quran, multiple witnessess by hearsay, scripture quotes, and of course william lane craig Islam clones. Do a google search for Gos's sake. Furthermore you havent shown any evidence for how Christianity is reasonable in the first place which means i still dont have to provide any evidence, since i said both had no reasonable evidence

#1117 serp777

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 04:19 AM


FAITH
Unreasonable Faith
Believing in something IN SPITE of the evidence. We hold an unreasonable faith when we refuse to accept or acknowledge evidence that exists, is easily accessible and clearly refutes what we believe.  Where is the evidence for the faith of Name Callers?

Blind Faith
Believing in something WITHOUT any evidence. We hold a blind faith when we accept something even though there is no evidence to support beliefs. We dont search for ANY evidence that either supports or refutes what we are determined to believe.  This is the faith of an Atheist.

Reasonable Faith
Believing in something BECAUSE of the evidence. We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists.
 

 
 
Well, you definitely fall into the first two categories (particularly "Unreasonable Faith"). The third... not so much.
 
 "We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists."
^^I am assuming "Reasonable Faith" is where you would categorize yourself? It baffles me the you would really have the audacity to say that.

Because he is the ultimate judge of sense and knows inherently what is reasonable and unreasonable. Make an argument that he doesn't like or show his argument to be invalid and he will simply say the argument you made against him is "nonsense", while providing no justification for why it is nonsense
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#1118 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:14 PM

 

 

FAITH
Unreasonable Faith
Believing in something IN SPITE of the evidence. We hold an unreasonable faith when we refuse to accept or acknowledge evidence that exists, is easily accessible and clearly refutes what we believe.  Where is the evidence for the faith of Name Callers?

Blind Faith
Believing in something WITHOUT any evidence. We hold a blind faith when we accept something even though there is no evidence to support beliefs. We dont search for ANY evidence that either supports or refutes what we are determined to believe.  This is the faith of an Atheist.

Reasonable Faith
Believing in something BECAUSE of the evidence. We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists.
 

 
 
Well, you definitely fall into the first two categories (particularly "Unreasonable Faith"). The third... not so much.
 
 "We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists."
^^I am assuming "Reasonable Faith" is where you would categorize yourself? It baffles me the you would really have the audacity to say that.

Because he is the ultimate judge of sense and knows inherently what is reasonable and unreasonable. Make an argument that he doesn't like or show his argument to be invalid and he will simply say the argument you made against him is "nonsense", while providing no justification for why it is nonsense

 

Where are your stats?  Nonsense



#1119 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:36 PM

 

FAITH

Unreasonable Faith
Believing in something IN SPITE of the evidence. We hold an unreasonable faith when we refuse to accept or acknowledge evidence that exists, is easily accessible and clearly refutes what we believe.  Where is the evidence for the faith of Name Callers?

Blind Faith
Believing in something WITHOUT any evidence. We hold a blind faith when we accept something even though there is no evidence to support beliefs. We don’t search for ANY evidence that either supports or refutes what we are determined to believe.  This is the faith of an Atheist.

Reasonable Faith
Believing in something BECAUSE of the evidence. We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists.
 

 

 

Well, you definitely fall into the first two categories (particularly "Unreasonable Faith"). The third... not so much.

 

 "We hold a reasonable faith when we believe in something because it is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that exists."

^^I am assuming "Reasonable Faith" is where you would categorize yourself? It baffles me the you would really have the audacity to say that.

 

Name callers are unreasonable, don’t you think?  Atheists are blind because they have no evidence and even argue they need none.  Did I call you a name?  Did I say you need no evidence and could be blind?  Let me again define faith which is reasonable.

Faith is belief in a person or thing without complete evidence.  Everything has incomplete evidence, therefore we all live by faith.  Faith is not blind, but intelligent and commences with the conviction and commitment of the mind based on adequate but incomplete evidence.

American biblical scholar Archibald Thomas Robertson stated that the Greek word pistis used for faith in the New Testament (over two hundred forty times), and rendered "assurance" in Acts 17:31 (KJV), is "an old verb to furnish, used regularly by Demosthenes for bringing forward evidence."  To be persuaded by belief that has warrant, a trust in and commitment to what we have reason to believe is true.  It is belief that the hypotheses we hold will be substantiated in the future, in fact.  Trust.  Faith should be defined as “trusting, holding to, and acting on what one has good reason to believe is true in the face of incomplete evidence and difficulties.”

Is it audacious to say this?  Do you have any evidence for your faith?  What kind of faith is it?



#1120 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:15 PM

DukeNukem:  These "miracles" where all commonly performed at the time that Jesus supposedly lived by many roaming prophets.  And there was a whole class of healers and mystics at this period of time who performed miracles as a way to enhance their reputation as healers, who could then cure diseases like leprosy.  Many of them would raise people from the dead -- and of course it was all a set-up, designed to wow the crowd and display incredible magic powers.  This was their way to advertise their "powers" to drum up paying business.

In fact, even in the Bible itself, Jesus is not the only person performing "miracles."

Note that there are street magicians in Vegas today who can totally deceive the average person, even to the point of walking on water and levitating in mid-air.  Imagine in the time of Jesus how easily good magicians could fool the crowds.  And they did.  And these magical "miracles" are now the basis for the great power of Jesus, because he could turn water into wine and heal a paralyzed man -- dead easy tricks for any magician of the time.

But, people where bamboozled then, and they're still bamboozled now.

Basically, there's not a single thing in the Bible that is evidence for Christianity, just as there's not a single thing in any of the Harry Potter books that's evidence for Harry Potter being real.


You say these miracles were commonly preformed, yet you give not one name or example.  Of course you must have the evidence it was all a setup.  Of course you do.

You are right Jesus was not the only one who preformed miracles in the Bible.  There are other miracles.  So....   I listed a bunch of them but there are more.  How about parting the red sea?  How about creation?  What a trick.

And your evidence?  Street magicians in Vegas.  I saw Harry Potter, more evidence!  There are even books about him!  Wow.  What powerful evidence.  The Bible is to be compared to Harry Potter books.  Ill tell you who has no evidence.  But lets look at miracles closer next.   
 

#1121 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:36 PM

Shadowhawk i can provide eexactly the same meaningless evidence for mohammed. It's your favortie thing: "historical evidence". There's the Quran, multiple witnessess by hearsay, scripture quotes, and of course william lane craig Islam clones. Do a google search for Gos's sake. Furthermore you havent shown any evidence for how Christianity is reasonable in the first place which means i still dont have to provide any evidence, since i said both had no reasonable evidence

 Anything that is past is historical.  Show Mohammed was raised from the dead.  You need to show no evidence, you have blind faith.  If you want to discuss Mohammed this is not the topic.  There is a lot of difference between Christ and Mohammed and I would be happy to discuss him there.



#1122 DukeNukem

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:42 PM

There are dozens of reasons to believe Jesus of Nazareth was just a clever street magician, who, as a follower of John the Baptist, preached what he had learned.

 

Earliest Reference Describes Christ Magician

http://www.nbcnews.c...n/#.U7H1F41dXzQ



#1123 Lewis Carroll

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 01:45 AM

Name callers are unreasonable, don’t you think?  Atheists are blind because they have no evidence and even argue they need none.  Did I call you a name?  Did I say you need no evidence and could be blind?  Let me again define faith which is reasonable.

Faith is belief in a person or thing without complete evidence.  Everything has incomplete evidence, therefore we all live by faith.  Faith is not blind, but intelligent and commences with the conviction and commitment of the mind based on adequate but incomplete evidence.

American biblical scholar Archibald Thomas Robertson stated that the Greek word pistis used for faith in the New Testament (over two hundred forty times), and rendered "assurance" in Acts 17:31 (KJV), is "an old verb to furnish, used regularly by Demosthenes for bringing forward evidence."  To be persuaded by belief that has warrant, a trust in and commitment to what we have reason to believe is true.  It is belief that the hypotheses we hold will be substantiated in the future, in fact.  Trust.  Faith should be defined as “trusting, holding to, and acting on what one has good reason to believe is true in the face of incomplete evidence and difficulties.”

Is it audacious to say this?  Do you have any evidence for your faith?  What kind of faith is it?

 

 

 

As usual, I never "called you a name".

 

I don't have a faith per se. I "believe" in some sort of spiritual extension of reality, I suppose. So, we are similar in that we both have developed spiritual philosophical ideas/beliefs. The difference is that I would never be ignorant enough to claim that my subjective, opinionated beliefs are correct.

 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence/proof. Unfortunately, I don't think your "partial evidence" cuts it.



#1124 shadowhawk

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 04:05 AM

 

Name callers are unreasonable, don’t you think?  Atheists are blind because they have no evidence and even argue they need none.  Did I call you a name?  Did I say you need no evidence and could be blind?  Let me again define faith which is reasonable.

Faith is belief in a person or thing without complete evidence.  Everything has incomplete evidence, therefore we all live by faith.  Faith is not blind, but intelligent and commences with the conviction and commitment of the mind based on adequate but incomplete evidence.

American biblical scholar Archibald Thomas Robertson stated that the Greek word pistis used for faith in the New Testament (over two hundred forty times), and rendered "assurance" in Acts 17:31 (KJV), is "an old verb to furnish, used regularly by Demosthenes for bringing forward evidence."  To be persuaded by belief that has warrant, a trust in and commitment to what we have reason to believe is true.  It is belief that the hypotheses we hold will be substantiated in the future, in fact.  Trust.  Faith should be defined as “trusting, holding to, and acting on what one has good reason to believe is true in the face of incomplete evidence and difficulties.”

Is it audacious to say this?  Do you have any evidence for your faith?  What kind of faith is it?

 

 

 

As usual, I never "called you a name".

 

I don't have a faith per se. I "believe" in some sort of spiritual extension of reality, I suppose. So, we are similar in that we both have developed spiritual philosophical ideas/beliefs. The difference is that I would never be ignorant enough to claim that my subjective, opinionated beliefs are correct.

 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence/proof. Unfortunately, I don't think your "partial evidence" cuts it.

 

You Just did!   You also called names. :)


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#1125 shadowhawk

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 04:08 AM

There are dozens of reasons to believe Jesus of Nazareth was just a clever street magician, who, as a follower of John the Baptist, preached what he had learned.

 

Earliest Reference Describes Christ Magician

http://www.nbcnews.c...n/#.U7H1F41dXzQ

 

Again empty clams.  
 



#1126 shadowhawk

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 04:11 AM

EVIDENCE.

Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.  I have given all kinds of evidence.


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#1127 addx

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 03:28 PM

EVIDENCE.

Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion.  I have given all kinds of evidence.

 

 

No it's not 'anything'. An interpretation is not evidence of anything other than what the interpretator thinks. 

 

Since you have no physical evidence, all is hear say from 2000 years ago.

 

You would lose a case in court 100% as there is no eyewitness and the books are easily faked and are also known to be cherry picked scriptures written by different people. Science, even catholic science has analyzed scriptures and concluded they were written by various writers and have identified parts where identities change etc. So your proof is so tainted and such a 100000x hearsay that a judge would throw you out before you would even begin to speak.

 

So you can play around with the meaning of the word evidence, but whatever meaning you pick, you lose. 

 

If arbitrary interpretations are accepted evidence I can always give contrary interpretations (but I need not to, as there are plenty available already) as you have seen yourself. And what then? We agree to disagree? 

 

The only way the dispute can be settled is if we both witness Jesus resurrect before our eyes. And we wont, we both know it.

 

So your entire endeavor and loss of time invested into coming up with all this "evidence"(just biased interpretations and nothing more) is futile from the start, which is probably one the first things I told you. I dismiss this entire thing, that's how my mind works, it knows what paths lead to useless effort. 

 

Weighing "interpretations" as if they were evidence by comparing the credibility of the authors is NOT a scientific method and is therefore a futile effort.

 

Thus your intention to prove christianity by weighing various interpretations and their authors is NOT AT ALL a scientific endeavor and has nothing to do with science but has all to do with your mind picking facts you like.

 

You could get to know yourself by reserving a "third person perspective" to analyze what you're doing here and perhaps find out why you're so compelled to do this, or you can resume your blind life and invest further futile effort.

 

Having put aside the futility of your endeavor, the only other thing you can provide to compell anyone towards christianity is utility. What does christianity provide for the "believer"? Is any of that empirically testable? Is there a guarantee, how do we test it? 

 

So you see, your theistic assertion has zero evidence. And this is by design, as if God could be proven, provoked, seen, witnessed in any way - faith would not be required, it would simply be knowledge of facts. So in essence, even if you do prove Christianity, you will in fact destroy the faith. 

 

This is what blind people do, they destroy what they love. And you've been told about your blindness. What you will destroy is your relationship with your parents, you want to win. And being at war with parents is already a sad thing, even before there's a victor. Destruction of Christian faith would be just collateral damage of your emotional blind war. Luckily, neither of this will never happen


Edited by addx, 01 July 2014 - 03:36 PM.

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#1128 shadowhawk

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:46 PM

addx:

No it's not 'anything'. An interpretation is not evidence of anything other than what the interpretator thinks. 

 

Since you have no physical evidence, all is hear say from 2000 years ago.

 

So this is your interpretation.  I just gave you the dictionary deff of "Evidence."  What don't you understand?

http://www.longecity...-38#entry672065

 

What is physical evidence?  I have given you more than any other ancient document or historical figure.   Are miracles possible?  Is the physical world all that there is?  What is the physical world?  So is history only here say?  My next post is to the point. 


Edited by shadowhawk, 01 July 2014 - 08:08 PM.

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#1129 shadowhawk

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:04 PM

COLD CASE CHRISTIANITY What is evidence?
http://www.amazon.co...sl_6g1nwxmb30_b

http://coldcasechristianity.com/

There is lots of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

As for matrialism and what is physical and whether miracles are possible this video is great.If God made the cosmos miracles are possible and materialism is not all there is.  In fact materialism may not be so material after all.





 


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#1130 serp777

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:35 AM

COLD CASE CHRISTIANITY What is evidence?
http://www.amazon.co...sl_6g1nwxmb30_b

http://coldcasechristianity.com/

There is lots of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

As for matrialism and what is physical and whether miracles are possible this video is great.If God made the cosmos miracles are possible and materialism is not all there is.  In fact materialism may not be so material after all.





 

Ridiculous. These sources are terrible. An unknown website and a youtube video. I refer to the books and videos i posted about ancient aliens which are equally valid if we accept these. Just because you allege that something is good evidence does not make it true.

Furthermore, you make even more assumptions. If god exists, you've provided no argument or evidence for why he would be something beyond a physical entity. Perhaps he is a physical entity in a causually sperated universe or in the fifth dimension, who can modify the laws of physics on a whim but is still physical

But this thread is pointless. Theres nothing we could argue or offer as evidence that you would accept. Christianity's truth is a tautology for you and its inherent unfalsifiability is in spite of all reasoning

Edited by serp777, 02 July 2014 - 04:49 AM.

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#1131 addx

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 11:55 AM

addx:
No it's not 'anything'. An interpretation is not evidence of anything other than what the interpretator thinks. 
 
Since you have no physical evidence, all is hear say from 2000 years ago.

 
So this is your interpretation

  I just gave you the dictionary deff of "Evidence."  What don't you understand?


Dictionary is a collection of meanings inferred to words within the system of LANGUAGE. (not logic)

The law for example provides a strict definition of the word evidence functional within the system of LAW. (which strictly also follows logic)

You have therefore proven that within the system of language you can create sentences with the word evidence without the sentences being INCOHERENT. They can still be illogical or otherwise faulty with regards to other systems and their rules, such as logic, law and science.

What don't YOU understand?

I have never witnessed this level of abuse of common sense or reason... it's baffling.

Edited by addx, 02 July 2014 - 12:00 PM.

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#1132 shadowhawk

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 11:49 PM

 

COLD CASE CHRISTIANITY What is evidence?
http://www.amazon.co...sl_6g1nwxmb30_b

http://coldcasechristianity.com/

There is lots of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

As for matrialism and what is physical and whether miracles are possible this video is great.If God made the cosmos miracles are possible and materialism is not all there is.  In fact materialism may not be so material after all.





 

Ridiculous. These sources are terrible. An unknown website and a youtube video. I refer to the books and videos i posted about ancient aliens which are equally valid if we accept these. Just because you allege that something is good evidence does not make it true.

Furthermore, you make even more assumptions. If god exists, you've provided no argument or evidence for why he would be something beyond a physical entity. Perhaps he is a physical entity in a causually sperated universe or in the fifth dimension, who can modify the laws of physics on a whim but is still physical

But this thread is pointless. Theres nothing we could argue or offer as evidence that you would accept. Christianity's truth is a tautology for you and its inherent unfalsifiability is in spite of all reasoning

 

 

Baseless name calling and are all youtubes false?  No.  Just because I gave you a youtube as evidence does not make it false.  This is the media fallacy.  

You made no case for ancient aliens either and I welcome you to start a different topic and to do so. :) Perhaps this just another attempt at meaningless ridicule.  

I have provided evidence why God is not physical.  Tell me what is materially physical.  Obviously you didnt listen to the video.  I have not said the same thing twice using different words so your charge of Christianity being a tautology is false and gobligoop.

You have used no reasoning here.  Here is another video regarding the physical.





http://www.amazon.co...04344113&sr=1-3
 


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#1133 shadowhawk

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:13 AM

 

 

addx:
No it's not 'anything'. An interpretation is not evidence of anything other than what the interpretator thinks. 
 
Since you have no physical evidence, all is hear say from 2000 years ago.

 
So this is your interpretation

  I just gave you the dictionary deff of "Evidence."  What don't you understand?

 


Dictionary is a collection of meanings inferred to words within the system of LANGUAGE. (not logic)

The law for example provides a strict definition of the word evidence functional within the system of LAW. (which strictly also follows logic)

You have therefore proven that within the system of language you can create sentences with the word evidence without the sentences being INCOHERENT. They can still be illogical or otherwise faulty with regards to other systems and their rules, such as logic, law and science.

What don't YOU understand?

I have never witnessed this level of abuse of common sense or reason... it's baffling.

 

 

Dear Baffled:
Go against the dictionary if you want.  We are speaking English here and I provided evidence.  What is illogical about English. :)  Evidence means, the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.  What don't you understand?  I am giving logical evidence.  You may not like it but where is yours?  None.

I gave you a website that discusses evidence from a legal perspective.
http://coldcasechristianity.com/
You made no reference to it.

And you claim I have abused common sense and reason.  Have a good day. :)


 


Edited by shadowhawk, 03 July 2014 - 12:19 AM.


#1134 serp777

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:26 AM


 

COLD CASE CHRISTIANITY What is evidence?
http://www.amazon.co...sl_6g1nwxmb30_b

http://coldcasechristianity.com/

There is lots of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

As for matrialism and what is physical and whether miracles are possible this video is great.If God made the cosmos miracles are possible and materialism is not all there is.  In fact materialism may not be so material after all.





 

Ridiculous. These sources are terrible. An unknown website and a youtube video. I refer to the books and videos i posted about ancient aliens which are equally valid if we accept these. Just because you allege that something is good evidence does not make it true.

Furthermore, you make even more assumptions. If god exists, you've provided no argument or evidence for why he would be something beyond a physical entity. Perhaps he is a physical entity in a causually sperated universe or in the fifth dimension, who can modify the laws of physics on a whim but is still physical

But this thread is pointless. Theres nothing we could argue or offer as evidence that you would accept. Christianity's truth is a tautology for you and its inherent unfalsifiability is in spite of all reasoning
 
 
Baseless name calling and are all youtubes false?  No.  Just because I gave you a youtube as evidence does not make it false.  This is the media fallacy.  

You made no case for ancient aliens either and I welcome you to start a different topic and to do so. :) Perhaps this just another attempt at meaningless ridicule.  

I have provided evidence why God is not physical.  Tell me what is materially physical.  Obviously you didnt listen to the video.  I have not said the same thing twice using different words so your charge of Christianity being a tautology is false and gobligoop.

You have used no reasoning here.  Here is another video regarding the physical.





http://www.amazon.co...04344113&sr=1-3
 

Crying about name calling that doesn't exist? You're getting desperate. Furthermore nice red herring-- i didn't say youtube videos were wrong just because they're youtube videos. Instead of just presenting your argument, you expect us to sift through all of your lengthy videos, and then you simply call a lecture evidence. Next time im at a computer ill post a few hour long youtube videos of lawrence krauss, richard dawkins, and christopher hitchens and then use that as my evidence. Words from a lecture is not good evidence. Show me a double blind study of a miracle instead of lectures that speculate about god.

I have actually posted a few links and YouTube videos about ancient aliens. By your logic that is good evidence. Furthermore court case evidence is often flawed, ambiguous, and different depending on geography so its validity is inherently uncertain.

Materialism means everything is constructed out of energy and particles, since energy and particles are tje same thing. The fact that you think you know God and what he may or may not be shows that you think you knkw what you cannot know. You there fore cannot be correct.


Your reasoning is extremely flawed.

#1135 addx

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:45 AM

addx:
No it's not 'anything'. An interpretation is not evidence of anything other than what the interpretator thinks. 
 
Since you have no physical evidence, all is hear say from 2000 years ago.

 
So this is your interpretation

  I just gave you the dictionary deff of "Evidence."  What don't you understand?


Dictionary is a collection of meanings inferred to words within the system of LANGUAGE. (not logic)

The law for example provides a strict definition of the word evidence functional within the system of LAW. (which strictly also follows logic)

You have therefore proven that within the system of language you can create sentences with the word evidence without the sentences being INCOHERENT. They can still be illogical or otherwise faulty with regards to other systems and their rules, such as logic, law and science.

What don't YOU understand?

I have never witnessed this level of abuse of common sense or reason... it's baffling.

 
Dear Baffled:
Go against the dictionary if you want.  We are speaking English here and I provided evidence.


You have provided evidence as far as the dictionary is concerned. You have provided constructs that can be called evidence under the authority of the english dictionary. The dictionary has the authority to deem your statement coherent or incoherent or understandable or garbage.

You have not provided evidence as far as a court of law would be concerned. You have not provided constructs that can be called evidence under the authority of law of 99% of the countries in the world. The law has the authority to deem your statement false even though it is coherent.

You have not provided evidence as far as science and logic is concerned either, which pretty much stems from not providing evidence for law as law is strictly logical. Science has the authority to deem your statement also false even though it is coherent.

So, you're all just persuasive talk and you may be able to impress a few people that have no knowledge of law, science and logic.

I am giving logical evidence.


Interpretation. It's YOUR logic. 100% of other people on this forum dont agree with YOUR logic. Meaning it most definitely is not objective but simply your opinion or simply wrong.

I gave you a website that discusses evidence from a legal perspective.
http://coldcasechristianity.com/
You made no reference to it.

And you claim I have abused common sense and reason.  Have a good day. :)


No, you have provided a website with links to various people who produce their interpretation of events from 2000 years ago to which there is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE or it is extremely tainted and very possibly fake.

The mere title of that site is so misleading that its a disgrace. "Cold case for christianity". What cold case? If that "cold case" would be taken to a true court of law it would be thrown out the window and laughed at. The fact that the internet allows you to always find a group of people that are as badly damaged and wrong as you doesn't really support that your ideas are true. You'll find at least one idiot in the world supporting anything you think of. If you focus on hanging out only with such idiots and reading what they say, you'll start thinking this is the truth of the world, since you dont come in contact with people who reason differently. And so, you, being immersed into this material obviously for years, never provided yourself any true counteropinions, never took the others side, never rose above those two choices, atheism or theism to the whole picture, the whole medal, not just one side of it. And therefor all you have to say in this matter is completely 100% biased and ignorant. To see the truth of both choices you must take the path of both choices and honor each one the same before making up your mind, and you never did that, which is why you're so desperate to confirm you picked the right one because you never gave the chance to the other one. You never gave any atheistic materials chance, you never doubted what you were told about christianity, you took every fact that can be twisted to support christianity and blew it out of proportion, you purposefully dismiss monumental facts that deny christianity and purposefully emphasize completely streched out interpretations as "cold case evidence". You then attempt to support the wild interpretations by providing that the mullet wearing idiot who conceived it was allowed to demonstrate his mental issues at berkeley or oxford as if the same universities also did not have classes about hippie culture and similar phenomena.
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#1136 Deep Thought

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:52 PM

Hej shadowhawk. Hvor længe har du været kristen?


Edited by Deep Thought, 03 July 2014 - 04:54 PM.


#1137 shadowhawk

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 08:27 PM

Response to serp777:

As you know miracles only happen once or rarely.  Therefore a double blind study is the wrong tool to study them.  Try that on the big bang. :)    I can think of many other things as well such as most subjects of history.  Do a double blind on the existence or life of George Washington otherwise your thinking is flawed according to you. :)  

As for matter and the physical I suggest you read, THE MATTER MYTH, by Davies and Gribbin.  The unusual does happen and thought or consciousness is involved.
http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/0743290917

"Many people have rejected scientific values because they regard
materialism as a sterile and bleak philosophy, which reduces
human beings to automata and leaves no room for free will or
creativity. These people can take heart: materialism is dead."

'The Matter Myth', Davies & Gribbin, p.13

Shall I repost my definition of what a miracle is?  Obviously you don't know.


Edited by shadowhawk, 03 July 2014 - 08:28 PM.


#1138 shadowhawk

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 09:18 PM

Response to addx:

Yes my dictionary definition of evidence is correct.  We are speaking English.  I have presented evidence that fits the definition.

I have presented philosophical, logical, scientific, historical and physical evidence for Jesus Christ and Christianity.  Now you don’t think it is convicting but I fail to see any evidence you have presented except ad hominine attacks and logical fallacies.  You started off with them as has the other anti theists.  Now you want to make this an election.  Do we get to count the whole world?  My Church?  California?  Longecity?  In no case would you get 100% and in most cases you loose.  But, this is not about popularity.  It is about evidence for Christianity and you have been presented with some.

You claim to have knowledge, law, logic and science on your side.  What knowledge, law, logic or science?  An empty clam.  The proof is in the pudding.

Your attack on Cold Case Christianity is simply more name calling.  Much of law and evidence concerns Cold Case Evidence.  http://www.amazon.co...sl_6g1nwxmb30_b

Where is your cold case evidence?  None, just empty talk and name calling with no substance. :)

 
 



#1139 shadowhawk

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 09:25 PM

Hej shadowhawk. Hvor længe har du været kristen?

 

Hi :)
 



#1140 shadowhawk

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:34 PM

COLD CASE CHRISTIANITY

 

https://www.youtube....PcwSYEHy4#t=372

 

 

 







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