1818 replies to this topic

[shadowhawk]

For those who would like to study the Creation and Evolution issues.  http://www.reasonabl...rs-2-podcast/s9

[shadowhawk]

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336

The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

[Lewis Carroll]

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336

The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

 

 

I still fail to see how this is proof for Christianity. However, I do agree that "it is scientifically proven that man and woman are made out of the same stuff" - thanks for clarifying though.

 

But anyway... I was curious; does anyone else notice how Shadowhawk's response posts have terrible spelling, grammar, syntax, etc, but his non-response posts (such as this one) contain proper spelling, grammar, use of commas, etc? I've been wondering why this is...

 

Oh and out of curiosity, do you view the story of the creation of Eve (woman) as literal or symbolic?

Edited by MajinBrian, 18 November 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[The Brain]

He's another copy n paste pastor

The net is full of them

[shadowhawk]

I am not responding to ad hominem remarks.  Since I have carefully given, several times ,the definition of  “Evidence” you seem incapable of understanding it.  So there is no use repeating it.  Does what I have said about sex and the human body fit reality?  If so my argument fits reality and is therefore evidence for the Christian view.

[The Brain]

It's really someone else's work that you put foward as evidence though. You're picking and choosing that which others have published and trying to make a cohesive story out of it to suit your ideologies and agenda.

[shadowhawk]

We have gone over this before.  I learned almost everything I know from someone else.  I quoted the Bible.  Most I learned about Sex I learned from others.  So did you.  Do you have anything relevant to say?

Edited by shadowhawk, 18 November 2014 - 09:46 PM.

[The Brain]

Thought you weren't responding to ad hominen remarks

I guess that's relevant..

[Lewis Carroll]

Shadowhawk, why do you choose to post here when you could be posting on a christian-based forum? You're obviously not here to debate or consider other peoples' arguments, so why not go post somewhere with like minded people?

 

You must have spent a hundred hours on this thread, why not post somewhere where people appreciate and agree with your opinion?

[The Brain]

Christians don't like him either

He's a troll.

[serp777]

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336

The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

This is pointless and derailing the topic. This thread isn't about the love between a man and a woman. Completely irrelevant to christian evidence. Even if it was, you haven't shown has this is specifically supportive of Christianity over any other religion.

[serp777]

We have gone over this before.  I learned almost everything I know from someone else.  I quoted the Bible.  Most I learned about Sex I learned from others.  So did you.  Do you have anything relevant to say?

 

There's your problem right there. You don't learn anything for yourself. That's why you just keep copying William Lane craig arguments that were debunked ten years ago.

[shadowhawk]

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698490
The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

Adam and Eve were both naked.  The body is a beautiful thing in Christian art and the Christian attitude toward it is well expressed everywhere.  They were naked, but had no shame before each other. Nakedness again takes place in the context of the “one flesh” on the one hand and of the “snake/tree” on the other: on the one hand a communion of mutual self-giving and on the other the temptation not to allow that the other gives oneself, but rather, the temptation to reach for and grab the “fruit of the tree” oneself. Nakedness means the end of masks. One can be what and who one is, with ones strengths and weakness, there is nothing to hide. I can be myself in the relationship. One touches the other in his/her entirety, and this touch happens through the body and spirit, nakedness points to the radicality of the gift. Through physical and spiritual nakedness we realize, that we are loved for our own sake.  We discover in the other the great mystery of oneness and we are not alone.  Intimacy is the goal of nakedness and the gift of the body.

 

[shadowhawk]

ON THE MEANING OF SEX.  http://www.amazon.co...1528360_TE_dp_1

[serp777]

 

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336
 

 

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698490
The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

Adam and Eve were both naked.  The body is a beautiful thing in Christian art and the Christian attitude toward it is well expressed everywhere.  They were naked, but had no shame before each other. Nakedness again takes place in the context of the “one flesh” on the one hand and of the “snake/tree” on the other: on the one hand a communion of mutual self-giving and on the other the temptation not to allow that the other gives oneself, but rather, the temptation to reach for and grab the “fruit of the tree” oneself. Nakedness means the end of masks. One can be what and who one is, with ones strengths and weakness, there is nothing to hide. I can be myself in the relationship. One touches the other in his/her entirety, and this touch happens through the body and spirit, nakedness points to the radicality of the gift. Through physical and spiritual nakedness we realize, that we are loved for our own sake.  We discover in the other the great mystery of oneness and we are not alone.  Intimacy is the goal of nakedness and the gift of the body.

 

 

 

This is pointless and derailing the topic. This thread isn't about sex or the love between a man and a woman. Completely irrelevant to christian evidence. Even if it was, you haven't shown has this is specifically supportive of Christianity over any other religion.

 

Adam and eve is a myth. There were never only two simultaneous humans. There were at least 1000 other humans

ON THE MEANING OF SEX.  http://www.amazon.co...1528360_TE_dp_1

 

no one here is going to buy this mediocre book

Edited by serp777, 19 November 2014 - 09:45 PM.

[shadowhawk]

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698490
The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698684
Adam and Eve were both naked.  The body is a beautiful thing in Christian art and the Christian attitude toward it is well expressed everywhere.  They were naked, but had no shame before each other. Nakedness again takes place in the context of the “one flesh” on the one hand and of the “snake/tree” on the other: on the one hand a communion of mutual self-giving and on the other the temptation not to allow that the other gives oneself, but rather, the temptation to reach for and grab the “fruit of the tree” oneself. Nakedness means the end of masks. One can be what and who one is, with ones strengths and weakness, there is nothing to hide. I can be myself in the relationship. One touches the other in his/her entirety, and this touch happens through the body and spirit, nakedness points to the radicality of the gift. Through physical and spiritual nakedness we realize, that we are loved for our own sake.  We discover in the other the great mystery of oneness and we are not alone.  Intimacy is the goal of nakedness and the gift of the body.

 Intimacy is the goal of the Human body, both physically and spiritually.  Our bodies physically are designed and made for each other, both male and female.  We also are  made for communion with each other and such non physical realities as love exist between us.  Intimacy is a nakedness of body and spirit.  We long to know and be known as we are.  Intimacy is much more than simple intercourse but communion.  In Tantra one aspect is on union where male and female are joined for several days time.  The goal involves the union of spirit after long term physical coupling.  This is not a Christian approach but it points out our capacity for spiritual union along with physical union.  Two become on flesh but also one in spirit and the result is bliss.  God is involved in ever aspect of this communion of body and spirit and the glory of it, its fruit, is life.

Intimacy, not lust is what we hunger for and deep loneliness is what our hearts seek to avoid.  This is the Christian view and apologetic of SEX.

[The Brain]

Gotta wonder why so many christians are sex offenders really don't you ?

[serp777]

Gotta wonder why so many christians are sex offenders really don't you ?

 

They just appreciate the gift of sex from a young boy LOL.

[shadowhawk]

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698490
The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698684
Adam and Eve were both naked.  The body is a beautiful thing in Christian art and the Christian attitude toward it is well expressed everywhere.  They were naked, but had no shame before each other. Nakedness again takes place in the context of the “one flesh” on the one hand and of the “snake/tree” on the other: on the one hand a communion of mutual self-giving and on the other the temptation not to allow that the other gives oneself, but rather, the temptation to reach for and grab the “fruit of the tree” oneself. Nakedness means the end of masks. One can be what and who one is, with ones strengths and weakness, there is nothing to hide. I can be myself in the relationship. One touches the other in his/her entirety, and this touch happens through the body and spirit, nakedness points to the radicality of the gift. Through physical and spiritual nakedness we realize, that we are loved for our own sake.  We discover in the other the great mystery of oneness and we are not alone.  Intimacy is the goal of nakedness and the gift of the body.

 

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698707
Intimacy is the goal of the Human body, both physically and spiritually.  Our bodies physically are designed and made for each other, both male and female.  We also are  made for communion with each other and such non physical realities as love exist between us.  Intimacy is a nakedness of body and spirit.  We long to know and be known as we are.  Intimacy is much more than simple intercourse but communion.  In Tantra one aspect is on union where male and female are joined for several days time.  The goal involves the union of spirit after long term physical coupling.  This is not a Christian approach but it points out our capacity for spiritual union along with physical union.  Two become on flesh but also one in spirit and the result is bliss.  God is involved in ever aspect of this communion of body and spirit and the glory of it, its fruit, is life.

Intimacy, not lust is what we hunger for and deep loneliness is what our hearts seek to avoid.  This is the Christian view and apologetic of SEX.

Lust no longer sees the gift giver (the other person and God), but only, WHAT the other person gives ME.  It is focused only on desire and passion not communion and love.  Lust focuses only on the body part, the part that one lusts after.  You can also take another book of the bible, the 1st letter of St. John: (1 Jn 2,16) and apply it: the “concupiscence of the eyes” (the apple was pleasurable to look at), the “concupiscence of the flesh” (the apple would taste good), the “pride of life” (it would give the power of intelligence) – the last point is also interesting, as lust clouds the intelligence, instead of freeing it from the slaveries of passion gone wild.  Lust must be distinguished from desire and longing, both part of love, whereas lust is not. Eros and agape (Two Greek words for love.) in this sense are not contra positioned (in God they are even one and the same – cf. Benedikt XVI in Deus Caritas Est): Lust weakens eros. You need an ever new “kick” to get more excitement. CS Lewis in his Screwtape Letters puts it this way: an ever smaller pleasure for an ever greater price. On the contrary, where love is true, eros finds itself strengthened and ennobled.

Lust (eros) without Love (agape) is pornography.  Who cares about the person, just the body parts which arouse desire like food bringing forth hunger. It never completely satisfies because like pornography lacks communion of the spirit so we are always left alone, empty and cold.  In a short period of time lust drives again for a never satisfying fulfillment, over and again like a junkie needing their fix.  It is addicting and it is lonely as hell.

 SIGNS OF LUST

    You're totally focused on a person's looks and body.
    You're interested in having sex, but not in having conversations.
    You'd rather keep the relationship on a fantasy level, not discuss real feelings.
    You want to leave soon after sex rather than cuddling or breakfast the next morning.
    You are lovers, but not friends.

SIGNS OF LOVE

    You want to spend quality time together other than sex.
    You get lost in conversations and forget about the hours passing.
    You want to honestly listen to each other's feelings, make each other happy.
    He or she motivates you to be a better person.
    You want to get to meet his or her family and friends.
     You share faith and your love is sacramental.

This is the Christian view and it fits the full reality of human love.    As such it is evidnce of the truth of the faith.

[Lewis Carroll]

 

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336
 

 

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698490
The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

 

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698684
Adam and Eve were both naked.  The body is a beautiful thing in Christian art and the Christian attitude toward it is well expressed everywhere.  They were naked, but had no shame before each other. Nakedness again takes place in the context of the “one flesh” on the one hand and of the “snake/tree” on the other: on the one hand a communion of mutual self-giving and on the other the temptation not to allow that the other gives oneself, but rather, the temptation to reach for and grab the “fruit of the tree” oneself. Nakedness means the end of masks. One can be what and who one is, with ones strengths and weakness, there is nothing to hide. I can be myself in the relationship. One touches the other in his/her entirety, and this touch happens through the body and spirit, nakedness points to the radicality of the gift. Through physical and spiritual nakedness we realize, that we are loved for our own sake.  We discover in the other the great mystery of oneness and we are not alone.  Intimacy is the goal of nakedness and the gift of the body.

 

 

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698707
Intimacy is the goal of the Human body, both physically and spiritually.  Our bodies physically are designed and made for each other, both male and female.  We also are  made for communion with each other and such non physical realities as love exist between us.  Intimacy is a nakedness of body and spirit.  We long to know and be known as we are.  Intimacy is much more than simple intercourse but communion.  In Tantra one aspect is on union where male and female are joined for several days time.  The goal involves the union of spirit after long term physical coupling.  This is not a Christian approach but it points out our capacity for spiritual union along with physical union.  Two become on flesh but also one in spirit and the result is bliss.  God is involved in ever aspect of this communion of body and spirit and the glory of it, its fruit, is life.

Intimacy, not lust is what we hunger for and deep loneliness is what our hearts seek to avoid.  This is the Christian view and apologetic of SEX.

Lust no longer sees the gift giver (the other person and God), but only, WHAT the other person gives ME.  It is focused only on desire and passion not communion and love.  Lust focuses only on the body part, the part that one lusts after.  You can also take another book of the bible, the 1st letter of St. John: (1 Jn 2,16) and apply it: the “concupiscence of the eyes” (the apple was pleasurable to look at), the “concupiscence of the flesh” (the apple would taste good), the “pride of life” (it would give the power of intelligence) – the last point is also interesting, as lust clouds the intelligence, instead of freeing it from the slaveries of passion gone wild.  Lust must be distinguished from desire and longing, both part of love, whereas lust is not. Eros and agape (Two Greek words for love.) in this sense are not contra positioned (in God they are even one and the same – cf. Benedikt XVI in Deus Caritas Est): Lust weakens eros. You need an ever new “kick” to get more excitement. CS Lewis in his Screwtape Letters puts it this way: an ever smaller pleasure for an ever greater price. On the contrary, where love is true, eros finds itself strengthened and ennobled.

Lust (eros) without Love (agape) is pornography.  Who cares about the person, just the body parts which arouse desire like food bringing forth hunger. It never completely satisfies because like pornography lacks communion of the spirit so we are always left alone, empty and cold.  In a short period of time lust drives again for a never satisfying fulfillment, over and again like a junkie needing their fix.  It is addicting and it is lonely as hell.

 SIGNS OF LUST

    You're totally focused on a person's looks and body.
    You're interested in having sex, but not in having conversations.
    You'd rather keep the relationship on a fantasy level, not discuss real feelings.
    You want to leave soon after sex rather than cuddling or breakfast the next morning.
    You are lovers, but not friends.

SIGNS OF LOVE

    You want to spend quality time together other than sex.
    You get lost in conversations and forget about the hours passing.
    You want to honestly listen to each other's feelings, make each other happy.
    He or she motivates you to be a better person.
    You want to get to meet his or her family and friends.
     You share faith and your love is sacramental.

This is the Christian view and it fits the full reality of human love.    As such it is evidnce of the truth of the faith.

 

 

This is just getting silly.

[The Brain]

It was silly 50 something pages ago

[serp777]

 

SEX:  Continued from.  http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336
 

 

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698490
The Bible says when Adam saw Eve he said, “This is flesh of my flesh, bones of my bones.”  It is scientifically true that Man and woman are made out of the same stuff.  This is an amazing reaction of a young man who has just been presented one of the most beautiful women the world would ever see. There she stands, naked, offering herself to him as a gift, (I know some object to our being a gift but she was a gift to Adam.) offering to give herself totally to him, in her bodiliness, and everything she is. That is to say. He sees her in her body. He sees her body, but his first reaction is not to underscore their bodily male-female difference; rather, what he emphasizes is their common humanity. In seeing her body, he sees in her body more than her body, he is able to see deeper, he sees her. And this is taking place in the garden (“my sister bride is an enclosed garden” – a quote from another book of the Bible, the Song of Songs): that is to say, another way to read “Garden” is to read, “sphere of intimacy between man and woman.” He does not stay on the surface, does not see so many body parts that could serve his pleasure, he sees her, in her dignity, in her personhood, and this experience overwhelms her. She discovers who she is precisely in this moment where she gives herself, because Adam receives and accepts her in this moment not for what THINGS he gives her, but for who she is, in her totality and in her limitations (she´s not God, so by that very fact has limitations). This overwhelms because it’s an experience of being loved: that is: I love you not because you give me pleasure or something else, but I love you for who you are. I love you not according to the motto: “I give you this if you give me something in return.” But rather pure and simply: I love you. This, then, causes in her the desire and wish to give herself even more to him. In this moment Adam realizes who he is as a person, because Eve loves him not because he gives her affirmation or intimacy or whatever, but just loves him, pure and simple…a communion of persons is created.  The body is the physical vehicle to express this non physical love.

 

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698684
Adam and Eve were both naked.  The body is a beautiful thing in Christian art and the Christian attitude toward it is well expressed everywhere.  They were naked, but had no shame before each other. Nakedness again takes place in the context of the “one flesh” on the one hand and of the “snake/tree” on the other: on the one hand a communion of mutual self-giving and on the other the temptation not to allow that the other gives oneself, but rather, the temptation to reach for and grab the “fruit of the tree” oneself. Nakedness means the end of masks. One can be what and who one is, with ones strengths and weakness, there is nothing to hide. I can be myself in the relationship. One touches the other in his/her entirety, and this touch happens through the body and spirit, nakedness points to the radicality of the gift. Through physical and spiritual nakedness we realize, that we are loved for our own sake.  We discover in the other the great mystery of oneness and we are not alone.  Intimacy is the goal of nakedness and the gift of the body.

 

 

http://www.longecity...-60#entry698707
Intimacy is the goal of the Human body, both physically and spiritually.  Our bodies physically are designed and made for each other, both male and female.  We also are  made for communion with each other and such non physical realities as love exist between us.  Intimacy is a nakedness of body and spirit.  We long to know and be known as we are.  Intimacy is much more than simple intercourse but communion.  In Tantra one aspect is on union where male and female are joined for several days time.  The goal involves the union of spirit after long term physical coupling.  This is not a Christian approach but it points out our capacity for spiritual union along with physical union.  Two become on flesh but also one in spirit and the result is bliss.  God is involved in ever aspect of this communion of body and spirit and the glory of it, its fruit, is life.

Intimacy, not lust is what we hunger for and deep loneliness is what our hearts seek to avoid.  This is the Christian view and apologetic of SEX.

Lust no longer sees the gift giver (the other person and God), but only, WHAT the other person gives ME.  It is focused only on desire and passion not communion and love.  Lust focuses only on the body part, the part that one lusts after.  You can also take another book of the bible, the 1st letter of St. John: (1 Jn 2,16) and apply it: the “concupiscence of the eyes” (the apple was pleasurable to look at), the “concupiscence of the flesh” (the apple would taste good), the “pride of life” (it would give the power of intelligence) – the last point is also interesting, as lust clouds the intelligence, instead of freeing it from the slaveries of passion gone wild.  Lust must be distinguished from desire and longing, both part of love, whereas lust is not. Eros and agape (Two Greek words for love.) in this sense are not contra positioned (in God they are even one and the same – cf. Benedikt XVI in Deus Caritas Est): Lust weakens eros. You need an ever new “kick” to get more excitement. CS Lewis in his Screwtape Letters puts it this way: an ever smaller pleasure for an ever greater price. On the contrary, where love is true, eros finds itself strengthened and ennobled.

Lust (eros) without Love (agape) is pornography.  Who cares about the person, just the body parts which arouse desire like food bringing forth hunger. It never completely satisfies because like pornography lacks communion of the spirit so we are always left alone, empty and cold.  In a short period of time lust drives again for a never satisfying fulfillment, over and again like a junkie needing their fix.  It is addicting and it is lonely as hell.

 SIGNS OF LUST

    You're totally focused on a person's looks and body.
    You're interested in having sex, but not in having conversations.
    You'd rather keep the relationship on a fantasy level, not discuss real feelings.
    You want to leave soon after sex rather than cuddling or breakfast the next morning.
    You are lovers, but not friends.

SIGNS OF LOVE

    You want to spend quality time together other than sex.
    You get lost in conversations and forget about the hours passing.
    You want to honestly listen to each other's feelings, make each other happy.
    He or she motivates you to be a better person.
    You want to get to meet his or her family and friends.
     You share faith and your love is sacramental.

This is the Christian view and it fits the full reality of human love.    As such it is evidnce of the truth of the faith.

 

 

Love and lust exist, therefore Christianity? Shadowhawk you've reach an all new low. This is ridiculous. What's next? The fact that we eat food and then crap it out later is evidence for Christianity?
 

[serp777]

It was silly 50 something pages ago

 

Is there any way we can get a mod to lock this thread? It's been exhausted so long ago.

[shadowhawk]

SEX continued from the below two posts.
http://www.longecity...-59#entry698336
http://www.longecity...-60#entry698851

Adam and Eve (Male and Female) as we see in the Christian view relate to each other body soul and spirit.  As most of humanity will tell you being lovers is not just a physical thing but also involves the non material heart, mind, spirit and soul.  Mankind in his and her construct is both a body and soul.  Because Humans are both body and soul, they are capable of bringing in a spiritual aspect into their union.  It isn’t just about body parts like two dogs in the street but much deeper than that.  It is a union of spirit as well.  

God in the Christian view, does not exist in a state of solitude but as a community of persons (the Trinity), in other words a family.  When God creates mankind Holy Scripture states “let Us make man in our own image...male and female He created them.”  Husband and wife are called to live in a community of persons that images God.  The loving relationship between the Father and the Son that is personified in the Spirit is mirrored in a loving family of husband, wife and children.

So you were not made for yourself alone, you were made for an other.  Like god you were made to be a community of loving persons.  This fits reality.

[serp777]

Love and lust exist, therefore Christianity? Shadowhawk you've reach an all new low. This is ridiculous. What's next? The fact that we eat food and then crap it out later is evidence for Christianity?

[shadowhawk]

Perhaps these bodily acts, eating food and having a BM are the same as sex and love for you. You entirely missed the point. and left most of what was discussed out.  Typical.

[Lewis Carroll]

Perhaps these bodily acts, eating food and having a BM are the same as sex and love for you. You entirely missed the point. and left most of what was discussed out.  Typical.

 

 

 

Since there is no debate taking place in this thread and it has become more of a personal crusade in the form of a blog, I would like a moderator to lock this thread.

[shadowhawk]

Here is a real debate between the Hitchens brothers.  Peter Hitchens is great to follow.

 

 

 

 

 

[serp777]

Perhaps these bodily acts, eating food and having a BM are the same as sex and love for you. You entirely missed the point. and left most of what was discussed out.  Typical.

 

LOL, you even turned my sarcasm into a strawman. It was drawing an analogy showing the absurdity of using features of human existence to justify religion, not that they're the same thing derp. Love and sex doesn't confirm Christianity since Christianity was invented after sex obviously. And the thousands of other religions also have similar and different views of sex and this isn't evidence for any of them. Finally just because you make assertions about sex doesn't mean they're true at all. You just make baseless assertions that mean nothing. Typical deplorable debate tactics SH.

[shadowhawk]

You offered no debate against Christianity or what I said.  Just more name calling.  Love and sex do confirm Christianity and offer a realistic view of humanity.  It gives purpose to the body.