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IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY???

christianity religion spirituality

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#1081 shadowhawk

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:23 AM

Atheists do have a burden of proof as was argued at length in the topic, Is There Evidence for Atheism.   Off topic here.
http://www.longecity...-22#entry654448

Again, it is obvious you don’t have a clue.  My teaching was never, “Your argument is still–> different wavelengths of lights, therefore jesus and God.”  You shut no scripture down.  The discussion for the last time was on the APOPHATIC AND KATAPHATIC, negative and positive. Nature of God. http://www.longecity...-36#entry667108

If you don’t get it, OK. :) What does light do?  It illuminates and thus we can say Jesus is the light if the world.


Edited by shadowhawk, 07 June 2014 - 02:25 AM.


#1082 serp777

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 03:16 AM

Atheists do have a burden of proof as was argued at length in the topic, Is There Evidence for Atheism.   Off topic here.
http://www.longecity...-22#entry654448

Again, it is obvious you don’t have a clue.  My teaching was never, “Your argument is still–> different wavelengths of lights, therefore jesus and God.”  You shut no scripture down.  The discussion for the last time was on the APOPHATIC AND KATAPHATIC, negative and positive. Nature of God. http://www.longecity...-36#entry667108

If you don’t get it, OK. :) What does light do?  It illuminates and thus we can say Jesus is the light if the world.

 

You seem to have trouble reading. I'm not an athiest. Every athiest is technically an agnostic; including richard dawkins as the most famous "athiest." In fact he would refer to himself as an adiest.

 

There's no way to disprove anything, including Pink Unicorns. Saying: there is certainly no God would require a burden of proof, since that would be a claim. Agnostics, since you cannot wrap your head around what I am saying, do not claim anything. They are not a leaporconists or a santa clausists. They don't claim anything. They simply say that they don't believe anything until there is sufficient evidence. You have the burden of proof. I can quote you the definition of the argumentative fallacy you used again, but you don't seem to understand the meaning of the definition, so it would be futile. You can keep denying argumentative fallacies, but you seem to complain that others use argumentative fallacies, so that would mean you're a hypocrite by definition.

 

 

I don't care what you argued at length for; it's not relevant to my position or any other reasonable athiest (who are technically agnostics). If you deny basic argumentative fallacies as the one I quoted you directly, than how can you consider yourself an intellectual at all? 

 

I do understand it, it's just a bad argument. Disagreeing with a bad argument does not mean i don't understand it. I explained to you several times about your numerous assumptions and argumenative fallacies, but you haven't responded to those arguments.

 

"It illuminates and thus we can say Jesus is the light if the world."

 

Jesus does not illuminate, except for a small range of infrared radiation. However, he only illuminated a small cross sectional area of the world as a function of his position on the earth, and the average temperature of his body. If you're referring to metaphorical nonsense, then he really only illuminated a small group of jews. He did not illuminate the Native Americans, or the Chinese, or the Indonesians, or all of South America, or all of Africa, or all of the modern non believers, or all of the other millions of people that existed before him.

 

"My teaching was never"

 

Actually it was. You talked about how different spectrums of light support your argument about "APOPHATIC AND KATAPHATIC", which it does not at all. Your false analogy is baseless, and you've given no justification as to how it supports the notion of APOPHATIC AND KATAPHATIC. You quoted some scripture about Jesus being the light. Where is the connection besides using the word "light" and illuminate?

 

I also like how you just ignored my counterargument in your fallacious reasoning concerning historical evidence. You didn't respond as to how Christian evidence is any better than the thousands of other religions and myths out there, that have equivalent historical support.

 

"Nature of God"

How could you possibly know the nature of God? How can you know what you cannot know? Did some ancient book from iron age peasants, who didn't know the earth orbited the sun, tell you?

 

"You shut no scripture down."

Would you care to justify any of your contradictions to my claims? It's obvious your arguments are so weak that you can't even respond with an explanation.


Edited by serp777, 07 June 2014 - 03:21 AM.


#1083 shadowhawk

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:07 PM

No response to the above because it is nonsense and a waste of time.

MIRACLES

Do Miracles happen and what is the evidence for them?  Let me start with a lecture at Harvard University.

 

 

 

 

 



#1084 serp777

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:48 PM

No response to the above because it is nonsense and a waste of time.

MIRACLES

Do Miracles happen and what is the evidence for them?  Let me start with a lecture at Harvard University.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No response to shadowhawk because he is a schizophrenic crackpot. He simply denies arguments because his counterpoints are so weak. Arguing with him is like arguing against a wall.

 

Actually ill respond to this "Let me start with a lecture at Harvard University."

Argument from authority. It does not matter which university an argument comes. So many fallacies. You're such a joke. Now he will cry about ad hominem though, as if my previous arguments were incorrect. I admit I use ad hominem, but only because shadowhawk is so ignorant and calls my arguments nonsense because he is not intelligent enough to understand them.


Edited by serp777, 07 June 2014 - 10:53 PM.

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#1085 shadowhawk

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:25 AM

Name calling, logical fallacies, off topic, pissing contest is what you have.  Not interested.  Have a nice day.  :)

 

EVIDENCE FOR JESUS AND MIRACLES FROM NON BIBLICAL HISTORY AND ARCHEOLOGY.
By Historian Paul Maier, at Iowa State University.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Paul_L._Maier


 


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#1086 serp777

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:45 AM

Name calling, logical fallacies, off topic, pissing contest is what you have.  Not interested.  Have a nice day.  :)

 

EVIDENCE FOR JESUS AND MIRACLES FROM NON BIBLICAL HISTORY AND ARCHEOLOGY.
By Historian Paul Maier, at Iowa State University.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Paul_L._Maier


 

 

Crying. More useless videos. Red herring. More denials without explanation. More argument from authority. You can't even make your own arguments, which is why you have to rely on all of these videos. Not interested.

 

Why don't you go quote some more scripture or make some additional terrible light wavelength analogies?



#1087 shadowhawk

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:21 PM

SOME MIRACLES OF CHRIST

http://www.ccel.org/.../jfb/JFB00F.htm
http://www.ccel.org/.../jfb/JFB00F.htm


    1. Born to a virgin - Miracles of Jesus

    2. Changing water into wine - Miracles of Jesus

    3. Healing of the royal official's son - Miracles of Jesus

    4. Healing of the Capernaum demoniac - Miracles of Jesus

    5. Healing of Peter's mother-in-law - Miracles of Jesus

    6. Healing the sick during the evening - Miracles of Jesus

    7. Catching a large number of fish - Miracles of Jesus

    8. Healing a leper - Miracles of Jesus

    9. Miracle of healing a centurion's servant - Miracles of Jesus

    10. Healing a paralyzed man - Miracles of Jesus

    11. Healing a withered hand - Miracles of Jesus

    12. Raising a widow's son - Miracles of Jesus

    13. Calming the storm - Miracles of Jesus

    14. Healing the Gerasene man possessed by demons - Miracles of Jesus

    15. Healing a woman with internal bleeding - Miracles of Jesus

    16. Raising Jairus' daughter - Miracles of Jesus

    17. Healing two blind men - Miracles of Jesus

    18. Healing a mute demon-possessed man - Miracles of Jesus

    19. Healing a 38 year invalid - Miracles of Jesus

    20. Feeding 5000 men and their families - Miracles of Jesus

    21. Walking on water - Miracles of Jesus

    22. Miraculous healing of many people in Gennesaret

    23. Healing a girl possessed by a demon - Miracles of Jesus

    24. Healing a deaf man with a speech impediment - Miracles of Jesus

    25. Feeding the 4,000 men and their families - Miracles of Jesus

    26. Healing a blind man - Miracles of Jesus

    27. Healing a man born blind - Miracles of Jesus

    28. Healing a demon-possessed boy - Miracles of Jesus

    29. Catching a fish with a coin in its mouth - Miracles of Jesus

    30. Healing a blind and mute man who was demon-possessed - Miracles of Jesus

    31. Healing a woman with an 18-year infirmity - Miracles of Jesus

    32. Healing a man with dropsy - Miracles of Jesus

    33. Healing 10 lepers - Miracles of Jesus

    34. Raising of Lazarus - Miracles of Jesus

    35. Healing Bartimaeus of blindness - Miracles of Jesus

    36. Jesus curses the fig tree with no fruit - Miracles of Jesus

    37. Restoring a severed ear - Miracles of Jesus

    38. The resurrection of Jesus - Miracles of Jesus

    39. Catching 153 fish - Miracles of Jesus

    40. The ascension of Jesus - Miracles of Jesus
 


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#1088 serp777

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:24 PM

SOME MIRACLES OF CHRIST

http://www.ccel.org/.../jfb/JFB00F.htm
http://www.ccel.org/.../jfb/JFB00F.htm


    1. Born to a virgin - Miracles of Jesus

    2. Changing water into wine - Miracles of Jesus

    3. Healing of the royal official's son - Miracles of Jesus

    4. Healing of the Capernaum demoniac - Miracles of Jesus

    5. Healing of Peter's mother-in-law - Miracles of Jesus

    6. Healing the sick during the evening - Miracles of Jesus

    7. Catching a large number of fish - Miracles of Jesus

    8. Healing a leper - Miracles of Jesus

    9. Miracle of healing a centurion's servant - Miracles of Jesus

    10. Healing a paralyzed man - Miracles of Jesus

    11. Healing a withered hand - Miracles of Jesus

    12. Raising a widow's son - Miracles of Jesus

    13. Calming the storm - Miracles of Jesus

    14. Healing the Gerasene man possessed by demons - Miracles of Jesus

    15. Healing a woman with internal bleeding - Miracles of Jesus

    16. Raising Jairus' daughter - Miracles of Jesus

    17. Healing two blind men - Miracles of Jesus

    18. Healing a mute demon-possessed man - Miracles of Jesus

    19. Healing a 38 year invalid - Miracles of Jesus

    20. Feeding 5000 men and their families - Miracles of Jesus

    21. Walking on water - Miracles of Jesus

    22. Miraculous healing of many people in Gennesaret

    23. Healing a girl possessed by a demon - Miracles of Jesus

    24. Healing a deaf man with a speech impediment - Miracles of Jesus

    25. Feeding the 4,000 men and their families - Miracles of Jesus

    26. Healing a blind man - Miracles of Jesus

    27. Healing a man born blind - Miracles of Jesus

    28. Healing a demon-possessed boy - Miracles of Jesus

    29. Catching a fish with a coin in its mouth - Miracles of Jesus

    30. Healing a blind and mute man who was demon-possessed - Miracles of Jesus

    31. Healing a woman with an 18-year infirmity - Miracles of Jesus

    32. Healing a man with dropsy - Miracles of Jesus

    33. Healing 10 lepers - Miracles of Jesus

    34. Raising of Lazarus - Miracles of Jesus

    35. Healing Bartimaeus of blindness - Miracles of Jesus

    36. Jesus curses the fig tree with no fruit - Miracles of Jesus

    37. Restoring a severed ear - Miracles of Jesus

    38. The resurrection of Jesus - Miracles of Jesus

    39. Catching 153 fish - Miracles of Jesus

    40. The ascension of Jesus - Miracles of Jesus
 

Moar scripture quotes. I'm surprised you didn't include a youtube video of william lane craig. As always, these prove nothing.


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#1089 shadowhawk

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:33 PM

What is a Miracle?
Miracles are those acts that only God can perform; usually superceding natural laws. Baker's Dictionary of the Bible defines a miracle as "an event in the external world brought about by the immediate agency or the simple volition of God." It goes on to add that a miracle occurs to show that the power behind it is not limited to the laws of matter or mind as it interrupts fixed natural laws. So the term supernatural applies quite accurately.  Miracles are extraordinary acts of providence which should not be conceived, properly speaking, as violations of the laws of nature, but as the production of events which are beyond the causal powers of the natural entities existing at the relevant time and place.   Miracles therefore are naturally (or physically) impossible events, events which at certain times and places cannot be produced by the relevant natural causes.

It's very interesting that a common word used for miracle in the New Testament can also be translated "sign." A miracle is a sign that God uses to point to Himself; the same way we follow signs to find a museum or an airport.

A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.
"the miracle of rising from the grave"

http://plato.stanfor...tries/miracles/
http://www.reasonabl...cal-perspective
http://www.reasonabl...dence-for-jesus

 


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#1090 shadowhawk

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:58 PM

CREDIBILITY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT MIRACLE ACCOUNTS

There are many studies of the accounts of miracles in the New Testament.  Miracles, by CS Lewis is a fine one on the general subject.
http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0060653019
A stydy by Craig Keener which presents the most thorough current defense of the credibility of the miracle reports in the Gospels and Acts may be found here.  
http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0801039525
Miracles, The Credibility of the New Testament Miracle Accounts is a two volume deep study.
https://www.youtube....900F8EEB62AE426


 




John Lennox, from Oxford finishes this post



 



#1091 serp777

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:43 PM

CREDIBILITY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT MIRACLE ACCOUNTS

There are many studies of the accounts of miracles in the New Testament.  Miracles, by CS Lewis is a fine one on the general subject.
http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0060653019
A stydy by Craig Keener which presents the most thorough current defense of the credibility of the miracle reports in the Gospels and Acts may be found here.  
http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0801039525
Miracles, The Credibility of the New Testament Miracle Accounts is a two volume deep study.
https://www.youtube....900F8EEB62AE426


 




John Lennox, from Oxford finishes this post



 

Do you know what evidence is? A few youtube books and videos from talking heads is not going to prove anything unfalsifiable, let alone the trinity and miracles and stuff.

 

Ancient aliens-

http://www.amazon.co...aliens evidence

Aliens in Egypt-

http://www.amazon.co...aliens evidence

 

The shocking truth behind the alien cospiracy-

http://www.amazon.co...rds=aliens book

 

ALIENS EXPOSED-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t0ydT1SVNM

 

SRS ufo evidence-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbE15ND9okI

 

Alien abductions-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRfW7w1YoUU

 

Wow I guess little green men must be real. The evidence is so credible here, that your trinity evidence is almost as good. I find it amusing that you're an evidentialist--that you feel you at least need to provide some limited form of evidence because your faith is not good enough.


Edited by serp777, 14 June 2014 - 05:48 PM.


#1092 Deep Thought

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 06:53 PM

The Shroud is 100 % true but it doesn't mean it was Jesus who died.  We are dealing with evidence not proof.  Proof exists only in math.

 

vote

What do you mean by "the shroud is 100% true"?



#1093 platypus

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 07:06 PM

Why do "miracles" happen in all religions if only Christianity is true?


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#1094 shadowhawk

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:19 AM

I am presenting evidence for Christianity not any other religion.  What other Great religious leader, rose from the dead?  Saying Miracles can’t happen is faith.  This is some my evidence, where is yours.


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#1095 serp777

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 04:25 AM

I am presenting evidence for Christianity not any other religion.  What other Great religious leader, rose from the dead?  Saying Miracles can’t happen is faith.  This is some my evidence, where is yours.

 

Again:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....st_of_fallacies

 

 I find it amusing that you're an evidentialist--that you feel you at least need to provide some limited form of evidence because your faith is not good enough.


Edited by serp777, 17 June 2014 - 04:50 AM.


#1096 shadowhawk

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:18 PM

What is proof?
noun
1.
evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.
anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3.
the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4.
the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.
Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.

 "proof" is a noun that means "evidence", and "prove" is a verb that means "demonstrate" I have used the word evidence.  There is no absolute proof outside of math.  I have explained this several times before but I don’t think you want to understand, so I will offer this historical proof and go on.  And where is your proof?  None



#1097 shadowhawk

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:01 PM

There is a difference between absolute "proof" and “good reasons."  We have good reasons for belief in "the biblical God, but not in mythical beings like mermaids, elves, unicorns, the tooth fairy, or flying spaghetti monsters which is typical comparisons from skeptics.

There are two types of ignorance — innocence and culpable — and the agnostic would be quite culpable of refusing to seek.

For example when a Western tourist travels to Cambodia, they might not be aware that exposing the sole of the foot or bottom of the shoe is insulting and offensive. The tourist may offend someone out of ignorance of this cultural taboo. But this ignorance is innocent.

There’s another kind of ignorance. What if you are driving down a highway and not paying attention to speed limit signs? An officer may stop you and ask why you were speeding. You cannot rightly say, “I didn’t know what the speed limit was — or even how fast I was going. So you shouldn’t give me a ticket.” Obviously, if you are driving, you are responsible for paying attention. Ignorance is no excuse. It is blameworthy rather than innocent.

Likewise, to say “I do not know if Miracles exists” may reveal a failure in my responsibility to seek God (“I do not want to know”). In this case, I would be at fault. The Christian Geneticist Francis Collins of Human Genome Project fame said he was an agnostic in college. Yet he confesses that his “I don’t know” was more an “I don’t want to know” attitude — a “willful blindness.”  This agnosticism eventually gave way to outright atheism — although Collins would later come to faith in Christ. He began reading C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity, and Collins realized his own antireligious constructs were “those of a schoolboy.”

The person who says, “I do not know if God exists,” may have chosen to live by diversions and distractions and thus to ignore God. This is not an innocent ignorance.  So the theist, atheist, and militant (ornery) agnostic all bear a burden of proof; the theist does not have a heavier burden since all claim to know something. Furthermore, even the alleged ordinary agnostic still is not off the hook. For one thing, one cannot remain neutral all his life; he will make commitments or hold beliefs all along the way that reflect either an atheistic or theistic worldview. He is either going to be a practical atheist or practical theist (or a mixture of the two) in some fashion throughout his life. But he can’t straddle the fence for long. Also, the ordinary agnostic may say, “I do not know,” but this often means “I do not care” — the view of an “apatheist.” Refusing to seek out whether God exists or not; refusing to humble oneself to seek whatever light about God is available; living a life of distractions rather than thoughtfully reflecting about one’s meaning, purpose, or destiny leaves one culpable in his ignorance, not innocent.  I do have a burden of proof, but so do you.
 


Edited by shadowhawk, 17 June 2014 - 09:04 PM.


#1098 serp777

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:52 AM

What is proof?
noun
1.
evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.
anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3.
the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4.
the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.
Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.

 "proof" is a noun that means "evidence", and "prove" is a verb that means "demonstrate" I have used the word evidence.  There is no absolute proof outside of math.  I have explained this several times before but I don’t think you want to understand, so I will offer this historical proof and go on.  And where is your proof?  None

I don't need to prove anything. You're the one making the claim that there is evidence for Christianity. Thus I don't need proof to show you're false. Refer back to the argumentative fallacy I posted above.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....st_of_fallacies

 

 

" There is no absolute proof outside of math."

Well this doesn't even fit the definition you provided, nor do I agree with your arbitrary decision that proof should only exist in math. It's just semantics for evidence as shown by your own definition.

 

"evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth."

No where does it say in your definition that proof only exists in math. 

 

Furthermore nothing in math is absolutely proved either because the axioms on which math is based haven't been absolutely proved. It's absolutely proved based on certain assumptions, which is a key difference you don't seem to understand, and that many have explained to you time and time again.

 

" so I will offer this historical proof and go on"

 

And why would you do that? Historical proof is inherently unreliable, especially in the supernatural realm, because of lies, manipulation, schizophrenia, the victors choosing the history portrayed, etc, etc. 



#1099 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 02:51 AM

Well this is not the place to discuss Godels Incompleteness and it was done in Evidence For Atheism so I will agree there is no absolute proof.  I have argued so repeatedly.  But there is evidence, the same kind we use all the time to make a case for the truth of anything.  You have shown none.   http://www.longecity...-37#entry669443


Edited by shadowhawk, 19 June 2014 - 02:55 AM.


#1100 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 02:59 AM

 

The Shroud is 100 % true but it doesn't mean it was Jesus who died.  We are dealing with evidence not proof.  Proof exists only in math.

 

vote

What do you mean by "the shroud is 100% true"?

 

It is not a painting and a real body was wrapped in it.  It is from the first century.  Read the discussion.  We have gone on.


Edited by shadowhawk, 19 June 2014 - 03:00 AM.


#1101 serp777

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 03:54 AM

Well this is not the place to discuss Godels Incompleteness and it was done in Evidence For Atheism so I will agree there is no absolute proof.  I have argued so repeatedly.  But there is evidence, the same kind we use all the time to make a case for the truth of anything.  You have shown none.   http://www.longecity...-37#entry669443

I don't need to prove anything. You're the one making the claim as i've argued more than repeatedly. Do you understand argumentative fallacies? 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....st_of_fallacies


Edited by serp777, 19 June 2014 - 04:14 AM.


#1102 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:22 AM

I have accepted the burden of proof and I have presented evidence.  You have presented nothing to rebut it.  So again for the third time.

http://www.longecity...-37#entry669443

 

I don't care if you believe or not.  So you do not believe.  So, a rock does not believe either and offers no proof or evidence.



#1103 serp777

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:32 AM

I have accepted the burden of proof and I have presented evidence.  You have presented nothing to rebut it.  So again for the third time.

http://www.longecity...-37#entry669443

 

I don't care if you believe or not.  So you do not believe.  So, a rock does not believe either and offers no proof or evidence.

 

You keep asking for people to provide evidence against something UNFALSIFIABLE, which is extremely ignorant. 

 

"So, a rock does not believe either and offers no proof or evidence."

 

Irrelevant and pointless false analogy, and an amusing attempt at ad hominem by comparing me to a rock. You always complain about ad hominem, so why do you use it? 

 

However, many arguments have been provided against evidence for Christianity, which you typically ignore again and again. Evidence is not required when we provide counter arguments that show why your evidence is false and baseless. However, then you revert back to a state of "You must provide evidence", which is a logical fallacy as i've have shown multiple times. 

 

For example, the fact that thousands of other religions claim their own historical evidence and miracles--including Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Scientology, Mormonism, etc,etc. Then you have no good counter argument, so you just say it's not relevant to this particular thread because it's about Christianity, even though it reflects that evidence for Christianity in terms of historical evidence and miracles is inherently untrustworthy. 

 

You have provided no argument for why your historical evidence is trustworthy or valid.

 

 


Edited by serp777, 19 June 2014 - 04:33 AM.


#1104 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:50 AM

I am presenting the evidence for Christianity.  Because others make claims does not mean they are all wrong.  There are millions of competing claims about millions  of subjects.  That does not make them all wrong.  One of the great defeaters of many religions is cosmology as U went through in section two. 

 

Simply claiming that arguments have been made against a view does not make it wrong.  All views have arguments made against them.

http://www.longecity...-37#entry669443

 

 

 



#1105 serp777

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:08 AM

I am presenting the evidence for Christianity.  Because others make claims does not mean they are all wrong.  There are millions of competing claims about millions  of subjects.  That does not make them all wrong.  One of the great defeaters of many religions is cosmology as U went through in section two. 

 

Simply claiming that arguments have been made against a view does not make it wrong.  All views have arguments made against them.

http://www.longecity...-37#entry669443

 

 

 

 

"Simply claiming that arguments have been made against a view does not make it wrong."

 

I have never claimed this. Why are you putting words in my mouth? This is a strawman.

 

"Because others make claims does not mean they are all wrong."

Again I have not made this claim. All I said was that it shows that the EVIDENCE is unreliable and unverifiable, not that it's wrong.

 

Likewise, evidence for miracles of Mohammad, like his ascension into heaven, are equally unreliable and unverifiable, but not necesserily wrong,because it is unfalsifiable. However, this conflicts with Christian evidence because they are mutually exclusive.

 

"There are millions of competing claims about millions  of subjects."

Millions of claims with equivalent evidence, means that the odds of picking the right claim, assuming one of the claims is even correct, is 1/(millions).

 

Again, the point of that was to poke holes in the use of historical evidence to support miracles. This is reasoning against the evidence you have provided.

 

 


Edited by serp777, 19 June 2014 - 06:09 AM.


#1106 Deep Thought

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:17 PM

Have you considered, shadowhawk, that in this very moment, you could be stuck in Purgatory without knowing it and the Devil, the atheists, are trying to tempt you to stray from the one true path to god that'll save your soul from eternal torment and allow you inside the gates of heaven. Well, where is the evidence that you're not stuck in purgatory, you might ask. I give you here the evidence that you're stuck in purgatory, and the complement; that you're not stuck in purgatory, is therefore disproved as consequence of the fact that evidence to the inverse scenario has been provided - that you're stuck in purgatory.

 

 

 

Let us examine the evidence that points to your being stuck in purgatory.

 

pur·ga·to·ry

 noun \ˈpər-gə-ˌtr-ē\

Purgatory : a state after death according to Roman Catholic belief in which the souls of people who die are made pure through suffering before going to heaven

: a place or state of suffering

 

The only logical conclusion to be made from the piece of evidence extracted from http://www.merriam-w...onary/purgatory, is in fact, that you're stuck in purgatory. Why? Look around you and observe the world you're living in. Is it not a state or a place of suffering? 


Edited by Deep Thought, 19 June 2014 - 01:19 PM.


#1107 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:44 PM

The burden of proof is on the person asserting a claim.  It can be either a positive or negative claim. http://en.wikipedia....ving_a_negative

When the assertion to prove is a negative claim, the burden takes the form of a negative proof, proof of impossibility, or mere evidence of absence. If this negative assertion is in response to a claim made by another party in a debate, asserting the falsehood of the positive claim shifts the burden of proof from the party making the first claim to the one asserting its falsehood, as the position "I do not believe that X is true" is different to the explicit denial "I believe that X is false".

So, I have presented a great amount of evidence so far and typically the claim is made only the person stating a position has a burden of proof.  We discussed this at length in the Is There Evidence For Atheism, topic.  So when you make a claim, you have a burden of proof.

You cant absolutely prove anything either positive or negative.  This fact does not remove the burden of proof.  http://coldcasechristianity.com/  



 



#1108 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:49 PM

Purgatory.  I do not believe in it but there is some evidence for it which you have not considered. 



#1109 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:02 PM

serp777: "Likewise, evidence for miracles of Mohammad, like his ascension into heaven, are equally unreliable and unverifiable, but not necesserily wrong,because it is unfalsifiable. However, this conflicts with Christian evidence because they are mutually exclusive."

 

You claim the evidence is equivalent.  Would you try to back up that claim in the "Is There Evidence For Islam," topic?  The burden of proof is on your claim.


Edited by shadowhawk, 19 June 2014 - 07:03 PM.


#1110 shadowhawk

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 04:45 AM

Why do "miracles" happen in all religions if only Christianity is true?

 

Not everything is a miracle.  Evidence.  Not every spiritual happening is from God and it must be tested out.  The Roman Catholic Church for examples tests them strictly.  That is also why I mentioned the study on credibility.  http://www.longecity...-37#entry668704
 


Edited by shadowhawk, 21 June 2014 - 04:49 AM.






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