1818 replies to this topic

[shadowhawk]

Since this is off topic I will resist talking about evolution here since I did so in section one and in the topic on Intelligent  design at legnth. 

[serp777]

Since this is off topic I will resist talking about evolution here since I did so in section one and in the topic on Intelligent  design at legnth. 

 

Or you know that you lost the argument and you're giving up because you're scared. You always seem to ignore the best points and then change the topic of the debate when you know you obviously lost. It would be a good tactic if everyone didn't see through your easily detectable facade.

[shadowhawk]

Dream on .

[serp777]

Dream on .

 

Then dreams and reality happen to be the same thing coincidentally. Also what's the lowest possible rep that you can attain? Let's see how far people will vote you down.

Edited by serp777, 14 November 2014 - 12:52 AM.

[The Brain]

God needs a new lawyer

This Shadowhawk dude has presented all this evidence yet the jury isn't buying it

[shadowhawk]

I guess you now think you are a jury .  Good thing I am not black. 

Since neither of you do not know what evidence is, and this is all ad hominem and name calling I am not interested and will go on.

Edited by shadowhawk, 14 November 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[Lewis Carroll]

I guess you now think you are a jury .  Good thing I am not black. 

Since neither of you do not know what evidence is, and this is all ad hominem and name calling I am not interested and will go on.

 

 

Is this your attempt at a joke?

 

"Since neither of you do not know what evidence is"

Ahh, so you're saying we do know what evidence is!

 

We began "name calling" after you refused to answer specific responses... As serp777 recently mentioned, as soon as you've lost a back-and-forth battle, you simply ignore the post.

[shadowhawk]

Just pointing out the nature of most of the critics.  This started from day one and is evidenced in empty posts like your and above.  I will leave the judgement of that to fair minded observers.  Not interested in this nonsense.

Shadowhawk: “SEX   http://www.longecity...-57#entry696827
http://www.longecity...-57#entry697338

The Christian view is that God created man, male and female.  The human body was made by God.  The body in a Christian view is complex.  It consists of a union of two elements, the physical or flesh and the spirit or soul.  For an Atheist you are only a body.

The body in the Christian view is physical and suffers the ultimate fate of all physical things, decay, disorganization and death.  The physical is not all there is and man also has a Spirit.  The body grows old and dies like all physical things but the Spirit is not of the sane nature.  It does not decay and die.  
 

Death in a Christian view is separation.  As long as the Spirit and Body are in union, you are a living soul.  However when the Spirit and Body separate your body, being physical, dies but the Spirit goes on.  Humans are a union of two elements, body and spirit and the result is they are a living soul.  When the body suffers the plight of all physical things the spirit and body separate and the physical dies being separated from the spirit.”

http://www.longecity...-58#entry697699
“We are male and female, irreducibly complex in that for humans to go on they need to procreate and new bodies start the process all over again.  Which came first the man or woman?  Unless both are present at the same time, humankind cannot exist.  Sex is a great mystery and without both man and woman, there is no human sex.”

We started off this thread by arguing that the physical aspect of the world was changing.  It was changing from one state to another in time.  Everything in the physical world we know is connected to something else and has its beginning in something else.  This chain of being can be followed back to the big bang.  Anyone who wants to read the arguments can go back to section One.  Here also we have a beginning and cause for humans.  In the Christian faith, the cosmos was created.  How?  We study the world around us to find out.  Why?  We study religion and philosophy to find out.  So our first observation is that the human body has a purpose.”

http://www.longecity...-58#entry697814
Adam was alone in the Christian Story and though He had God to fellowship with his purpose was not complete without a further creation.  Which came first the man or woman, the man but the human purpose was not complete without both and God planned it that way.  One purpose of human kinks having a body was to procreate and that took both male and female.  You cannot procreate without the YX and XX chromosomes.  Each pare was incomplete by itself.  Our bodies are not made for ourselves but we were made for another.  A woman’s breasts were not made for herself but for a child.  Our sexual system was not made for ourselves but for another.  Adam discovered he needed an Eve to be complete and she needed hin.  Without the other we are alone and as Adam found out this is very uncomfortable, empty and sad.  We cannot exist without the other in our lives.  We were not made to be alone.  This is the Christian View.

 

The Body is more than each individuals flesh.  If it was simply physical then it would not also be about others.  We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical.  Christians call this real non physical, purposeful aspect the Sacramental aspect of reality.  1st, a sacrament is a visible sign that makes something invisible present: like when your friend gives you a flower, it’s not just a chemical reaction of the arm that smears someone a biological product under her nose. No. This bodily action has a meaning that you can’t see in and of itself but is transmitted through the body: I love you. You are important to me. Giving someone a black eye also transmits a message: I don’t like you. ONLY through the body can the invisible be shown. The body is a sacrament: a. Because it shows the invisible (especially in man-woman union shows call to love, image of the triune community of love called God). b. because of its relationship to love. That is, the 2nd meaning of “sacrament” is that the sign in question in some way has to be related to the God of love, which it signifies. In other words, the black eye example from above makes of the body not a sacrament but rather its opposite: an anti-sacrament, a kind of sacrilege, because instead of being a messenger of love, the body becomes a messenger of egotism.

The body is a gift. This flows from the first meaning, because making love real and present for someone else is nothing other than that: giving a gift to the other. Now, when someone gives you a bottle of wine, you don’t say: hey! Wrong type! Or “wrong year” or, “I don’t like the cork!” – you could say that of course, you can do what you want, as you are free: but you’ve just destroyed the gift. Now, the body of the other makes present the person. When you marry someone, you don’t say: well: I marry you as long as you have no wrinkles, as long as you drive a nice car, as long as… well, again, you can say all that: but don’t call it love, as you’ve just destroyed the gift. The gift has to be totally given and totally received, if not, one has left the “logic of the gift” aside and entered into the logic of egotism and selfishness.

It has been asked how this is evidence for Christianity.  It is evidence because the Christian view of sex fits reality.  But more next time.

 
 

[serp777]

I guess you now think you are a jury .  Good thing I am not black. 

Since neither of you do not know what evidence is, and this is all ad hominem and name calling I am not interested and will go on.

 

Well since neither of us don't know what evidence is, that means either of us do know what evidence is. Thanks for pointing out the obvious! We're not using ad hominem because you refuse to debate in a meaningful way, or when valid points have been given to you you simply ignore them or say something like nonsense. When it's not a debate you can't commit an argumentative fallacy.

 

Again how low can your rep go? Pretty much no one finds you convincing. No one agrees with your arguments and nobody finds your debate tactics to be competent or reasonable.

[Lewis Carroll]

 

 

It has been asked how this (sex) is evidence for Christianity.  It is evidence because the Christian view of sex fits reality.  But more next time.

 
 

 

 

Is it just me or does this seem like backwards logic..?

 

How is taking a view that supports the obvious (sex is used for procreation) evidence of Christianity?

 

Even early, uneducated Christians would have realized sex is for procreation... What other view regarding the purpose of sex would they have taken?

 

Lots of animals require a partner to procreate; I fail to see how this is legitimate evidence for Christianity.

[serp777]

 

Just pointing out the nature of most of the critics.  This started from day one and is evidenced in empty posts like your and above.  I will leave the judgement of that to fair minded observers.  Not interested in this nonsense.

 

 

Shadowhawk: “SEX   http://www.longecity...-57#entry696827
http://www.longecity...-57#entry697338

The Christian view is that God created man, male and female.  The human body was made by God.  The body in a Christian view is complex.  It consists of a union of two elements, the physical or flesh and the spirit or soul.  For an Atheist you are only a body.

The body in the Christian view is physical and suffers the ultimate fate of all physical things, decay, disorganization and death.  The physical is not all there is and man also has a Spirit.  The body grows old and dies like all physical things but the Spirit is not of the sane nature.  It does not decay and die.  
 

Death in a Christian view is separation.  As long as the Spirit and Body are in union, you are a living soul.  However when the Spirit and Body separate your body, being physical, dies but the Spirit goes on.  Humans are a union of two elements, body and spirit and the result is they are a living soul.  When the body suffers the plight of all physical things the spirit and body separate and the physical dies being separated from the spirit.”

http://www.longecity...-58#entry697699
“We are male and female, irreducibly complex in that for humans to go on they need to procreate and new bodies start the process all over again.  Which came first the man or woman?  Unless both are present at the same time, humankind cannot exist.  Sex is a great mystery and without both man and woman, there is no human sex.”

 

We started off this thread by arguing that the physical aspect of the world was changing.  It was changing from one state to another in time.  Everything in the physical world we know is connected to something else and has its beginning in something else.  This chain of being can be followed back to the big bang.  Anyone who wants to read the arguments can go back to section One.  Here also we have a beginning and cause for humans.  In the Christian faith, the cosmos was created.  How?  We study the world around us to find out.  Why?  We study religion and philosophy to find out.  So our first observation is that the human body has a purpose.”

 

http://www.longecity...-58#entry697814
Adam was alone in the Christian Story and though He had God to fellowship with his purpose was not complete without a further creation.  Which came first the man or woman, the man but the human purpose was not complete without both and God planned it that way.  One purpose of human kinks having a body was to procreate and that took both male and female.  You cannot procreate without the YX and XX chromosomes.  Each pare was incomplete by itself.  Our bodies are not made for ourselves but we were made for another.  A woman’s breasts were not made for herself but for a child.  Our sexual system was not made for ourselves but for another.  Adam discovered he needed an Eve to be complete and she needed hin.  Without the other we are alone and as Adam found out this is very uncomfortable, empty and sad.  We cannot exist without the other in our lives.  We were not made to be alone.  This is the Christian View.

 

The Body is more than each individuals flesh.  If it was simply physical then it would not also be about others.  We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical.  Christians call this real non physical, purposeful aspect the Sacramental aspect of reality.  1st, a sacrament is a visible sign that makes something invisible present: like when your friend gives you a flower, it’s not just a chemical reaction of the arm that smears someone a biological product under her nose. No. This bodily action has a meaning that you can’t see in and of itself but is transmitted through the body: I love you. You are important to me. Giving someone a black eye also transmits a message: I don’t like you. ONLY through the body can the invisible be shown. The body is a sacrament: a. Because it shows the invisible (especially in man-woman union shows call to love, image of the triune community of love called God). b. because of its relationship to love. That is, the 2nd meaning of “sacrament” is that the sign in question in some way has to be related to the God of love, which it signifies. In other words, the black eye example from above makes of the body not a sacrament but rather its opposite: an anti-sacrament, a kind of sacrilege, because instead of being a messenger of love, the body becomes a messenger of egotism.

The body is a gift. This flows from the first meaning, because making love real and present for someone else is nothing other than that: giving a gift to the other. Now, when someone gives you a bottle of wine, you don’t say: hey! Wrong type! Or “wrong year” or, “I don’t like the cork!” – you could say that of course, you can do what you want, as you are free: but you’ve just destroyed the gift. Now, the body of the other makes present the person. When you marry someone, you don’t say: well: I marry you as long as you have no wrinkles, as long as you drive a nice car, as long as… well, again, you can say all that: but don’t call it love, as you’ve just destroyed the gift. The gift has to be totally given and totally received, if not, one has left the “logic of the gift” aside and entered into the logic of egotism and selfishness.

It has been asked how this is evidence for Christianity.  It is evidence because the Christian view of sex fits reality.  But more next time.

 
 

 

 

The Christian position is not evidence for Christianity. LOL stop embarrassing yourself please.

 

"We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical."

 

Assumption, purpose is not established. Also your mumbo jumbo about sacraments is not evidence of anything besides the existence of your poor arguments.

 

"The body is a gift. This flows from the first meaning, because making love real and present for someone else is nothing other than that: giving a gift to the other. Now, when someone gives you a bottle of wine, you don’t say: hey! Wrong type! Or “wrong year” or, “I don’t like the cork!” – you could say that of course, you can do what you want, as you are free: but you’ve just destroyed the gift."

 

Assumption and false analogy. The body is a gift according to who? According to the bible? Give me a break and stop using circular reasoning.
 

"But more next time."

 

Oh God, no more!!!!!!!! God really does need a new prophet instead of shadowhawk. SH is doing a pretty bad job at convincing anyone.

Edited by serp777, 14 November 2014 - 08:59 PM.

[shadowhawk]

 

I guess you now think you are a jury .  Good thing I am not black. 

Since neither of you do not know what evidence is, and this is all ad hominem and name calling I am not interested and will go on.

 

Well since neither of us don't know what evidence is, that means either of us do know what evidence is. Thanks for pointing out the obvious! We're not using ad hominem because you refuse to debate in a meaningful way, or when valid points have been given to you you simply ignore them or say something like nonsense. When it's not a debate you can't commit an argumentative fallacy.

 

Again how low can your rep go? Pretty much no one finds you convincing. No one agrees with your arguments and nobody finds your debate tactics to be competent or reasonable.

 

Say something meaningful beside this personal pissing contest and we can have a real debate.  Otherwise rave on.

[shadowhawk]

 

 

 

It has been asked how this (sex) is evidence for Christianity.  It is evidence because the Christian view of sex fits reality.  But more next time.

 
 

 

 

Is it just me or does this seem like backwards logic..?

 

How is taking a view that supports the obvious (sex is used for procreation) evidence of Christianity?

 

Even early, uneducated Christians would have realized sex is for procreation... What other view regarding the purpose of sex would they have taken?

 

Lots of animals require a partner to procreate; I fail to see how this is legitimate evidence for Christianity.

 

This is not all I said about sex and the human body.  It is evidence because it fits reality.

[shadowhawk]

serp 777: The Christian position is not evidence for Christianity. LOL stop embarrassing yourself please.

Again you do not know what evidence is.  If the Christian view is not evidence for Christianity what is?  LOL
 
"We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical."
 

 

Assumption, purpose is not established. Also your mumbo jumbo about sacraments is not evidence of anything besides the existence of your poor arguments.[quote]
Your body was made for someone else.  This is the basic principal of reality.  It is not an assumption.  I used this principal of reality to clarify that the physical is not all there is.  I used this to help define the word sacrament, though I haven’t finished.  Apparently you can’t follow this idea we were made for someone else and we are their Gift..

"The body is a gift. This flows from the first meaning, because making love real and present for someone else is nothing other than that: giving a gift to the other. Now, when someone gives you a bottle of wine, you don’t say: hey! Wrong type! Or “wrong year” or, “I don’t like the cork!” – you could say that of course, you can do what you want, as you are free: but you’ve just destroyed the gift."

 [quote] Assumption and false analogy. The body is a gift according to who? According to the bible? Give me a break and stop using circular reasoning.

You DECLARED this ‘wrong,” but you certainly have not demonstrated it.  Perhaps the Bible says the body is a gift that does not mean it isn’t.  Ask most lovers if they are not a gift to each other or if their Children are not a gift.  There are many ways we are a gift.  It is more than just physical.

Now who has the evidence?
 

Edited by shadowhawk, 14 November 2014 - 09:36 PM.

[The Brain]

Shadowhawk is the kind of christian that turns people away from christianity

[Lewis Carroll]

 

serp 777: The Christian position is not evidence for Christianity. LOL stop embarrassing yourself please.

Again you do not know what evidence is.  If the Christian view is not evidence for Christianity what is?  LOL
 
"We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical."
 

 

 

 

...And here we are again

[serp777]

 

serp 777: The Christian position is not evidence for Christianity. LOL stop embarrassing yourself please.

Again you do not know what evidence is.  If the Christian view is not evidence for Christianity what is?  LOL
 
"We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical."
 

 

Assumption, purpose is not established. Also your mumbo jumbo about sacraments is not evidence of anything besides the existence of your poor arguments.[quote]
Your body was made for someone else.  This is the basic principal of reality.  It is not an assumption.  I used this principal of reality to clarify that the physical is not all there is.  I used this to help define the word sacrament, though I haven’t finished.  Apparently you can’t follow this idea we were made for someone else and we are their Gift..

"The body is a gift. This flows from the first meaning, because making love real and present for someone else is nothing other than that: giving a gift to the other. Now, when someone gives you a bottle of wine, you don’t say: hey! Wrong type! Or “wrong year” or, “I don’t like the cork!” – you could say that of course, you can do what you want, as you are free: but you’ve just destroyed the gift."

 [quote] Assumption and false analogy. The body is a gift according to who? According to the bible? Give me a break and stop using circular reasoning.

You DECLARED this ‘wrong,” but you certainly have not demonstrated it.  Perhaps the Bible says the body is a gift that does not mean it isn’t.  Ask most lovers if they are not a gift to each other or if their Children are not a gift.  There are many ways we are a gift.  It is more than just physical.

Now who has the evidence?
 

 

You know what circular reasoning is right?

The bible and Christianity provide the christian view--> the christian view provides evidence for Christianity and the bible--> The bible and Christianity provide the christian view--> ad infinitum

 

"Ask most lovers if they are not a gift to each other or if their Children are not a gift."

THat's not the argument. Ask any parents with a kid in a coma if it's a gift. The body itself is not a gift--it's just a lump of particles.

 

"You DECLARED this ‘wrong,” but you certainly have not demonstrated it."

You're the one who needs to demonstrate that any of this is evidence for Christianity, as opposed to "evidence" for islam, or judiasm, or any other faith that emphasizes sex for that matter. You also need to demonstrate that this is convincing or worthwhile evidence; the fact that some parts of sex and love align with the bible is essentially irrelevant. The bible was created after people were having sex, so it's no surprise that it would address some parts of it somewhat accurately.

 

That would be like saying the fact that Christianity uses writing is evidence for Christianity because people think words are important.

 

Not all evidence is equal anyways, and at best this type of evidence is gutter evidence.

[serp777]

 

 

I guess you now think you are a jury .  Good thing I am not black. 

Since neither of you do not know what evidence is, and this is all ad hominem and name calling I am not interested and will go on.

 

Well since neither of us don't know what evidence is, that means either of us do know what evidence is. Thanks for pointing out the obvious! We're not using ad hominem because you refuse to debate in a meaningful way, or when valid points have been given to you you simply ignore them or say something like nonsense. When it's not a debate you can't commit an argumentative fallacy.

 

Again how low can your rep go? Pretty much no one finds you convincing. No one agrees with your arguments and nobody finds your debate tactics to be competent or reasonable.

 

Say something meaningful beside this personal pissing contest and we can have a real debate.  Otherwise rave on.

 

 

Again, how low will your rep go? Everyone finds your debate tactics and reasoning deplorable. Ironically you're the one who's been raving on--you've posted like 50 pages worth of posts on this thread, I post stuff like this because you keep ignoring the  points that people bring up. You're the cause of this and the one who's ruining the debate. You've ignored a few recent posts that contained devastating rebuttals. I can actually understand why you decided to ignore them.

[The Brain]

It's classic, I annoy christian trolls on the net wherever I find them and their behaviour is the same.

Their minds can reject logic and reality yet think you should believe their claims without protest or scrutiny

[shadowhawk]

 

 

serp 777: The Christian position is not evidence for Christianity. LOL stop embarrassing yourself please.

Again you do not know what evidence is.  If the Christian view is not evidence for Christianity what is?  LOL
 
"We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical."
 

 

Assumption, purpose is not established. Also your mumbo jumbo about sacraments is not evidence of anything besides the existence of your poor arguments.[quote]
Your body was made for someone else.  This is the basic principal of reality.  It is not an assumption.  I used this principal of reality to clarify that the physical is not all there is.  I used this to help define the word sacrament, though I haven’t finished.  Apparently you can’t follow this idea we were made for someone else and we are their Gift..

"The body is a gift. This flows from the first meaning, because making love real and present for someone else is nothing other than that: giving a gift to the other. Now, when someone gives you a bottle of wine, you don’t say: hey! Wrong type! Or “wrong year” or, “I don’t like the cork!” – you could say that of course, you can do what you want, as you are free: but you’ve just destroyed the gift."

 [quote] Assumption and false analogy. The body is a gift according to who? According to the bible? Give me a break and stop using circular reasoning.

You DECLARED this ‘wrong,” but you certainly have not demonstrated it.  Perhaps the Bible says the body is a gift that does not mean it isn’t.  Ask most lovers if they are not a gift to each other or if their Children are not a gift.  There are many ways we are a gift.  It is more than just physical.

Now who has the evidence?
 

 

You know what circular reasoning is right?

The bible and Christianity provide the christian view--> the christian view provides evidence for Christianity and the bible--> The bible and Christianity provide the christian view--> ad infinitum

 

"Ask most lovers if they are not a gift to each other or if their Children are not a gift."

THat's not the argument. Ask any parents with a kid in a coma if it's a gift. The body itself is not a gift--it's just a lump of particles.

 

"You DECLARED this ‘wrong,” but you certainly have not demonstrated it."

You're the one who needs to demonstrate that any of this is evidence for Christianity, as opposed to "evidence" for islam, or judiasm, or any other faith that emphasizes sex for that matter. You also need to demonstrate that this is convincing or worthwhile evidence; the fact that some parts of sex and love align with the bible is essentially irrelevant. The bible was created after people were having sex, so it's no surprise that it would address some parts of it somewhat accurately.

 

That would be like saying the fact that Christianity uses writing is evidence for Christianity because people think words are important.

 

Not all evidence is equal anyways, and at best this type of evidence is gutter evidence.

 

The Christian reasoning is evidence for Christianity and it meets all the tests for evidence.  However I am not trying to convince those whjo are not open to convincing.  I will leave it up to the readers who by the way are far more than the small group who only want to derail this topic from the very beginning.

[shadowhawk]

If a Black person tells a negative joke against Blacks, we laugh.  Let that same joke be told by a white member of the KKK and it is bigotry.  If a Jew tells a negative racial joke about Jews, we all smile but let a Nazi do the same thing and it is hate speech.  As a libertarian I am not for censorship but I know bigotry when I see it.  Just look at this thread.  So I am going to only respond to real issues related to what the topic and discussion is.

[The Brain]

Do you recognise your own negative agenda?

[serp777]

If a Black person tells a negative joke against Blacks, we laugh.  Let that same joke be told by a white member of the KKK and it is bigotry.  If a Jew tells a negative racial joke about Jews, we all smile but let a Nazi do the same thing and it is hate speech.  As a libertarian I am not for censorship but I know bigotry when I see it.  Just look at this thread.  So I am going to only respond to real issues related to what the topic and discussion is.

 

If you think this thread contains bigotry, you wouldn't know bigotry if it hit you in the nut sack. "just look at this thread" isn't evidence of bigotry. You haven't demonstrated any bigotry here. Not agreeing with your terrible arguments =/= bigotry.

Edited by serp777, 15 November 2014 - 11:24 PM.

[serp777]

 

 

 

serp 777: The Christian position is not evidence for Christianity. LOL stop embarrassing yourself please.

Again you do not know what evidence is.  If the Christian view is not evidence for Christianity what is?  LOL
 
"We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical."
 

 

Assumption, purpose is not established. Also your mumbo jumbo about sacraments is not evidence of anything besides the existence of your poor arguments.[quote]
Your body was made for someone else.  This is the basic principal of reality.  It is not an assumption.  I used this principal of reality to clarify that the physical is not all there is.  I used this to help define the word sacrament, though I haven’t finished.  Apparently you can’t follow this idea we were made for someone else and we are their Gift..

"The body is a gift. This flows from the first meaning, because making love real and present for someone else is nothing other than that: giving a gift to the other. Now, when someone gives you a bottle of wine, you don’t say: hey! Wrong type! Or “wrong year” or, “I don’t like the cork!” – you could say that of course, you can do what you want, as you are free: but you’ve just destroyed the gift."

 [quote] Assumption and false analogy. The body is a gift according to who? According to the bible? Give me a break and stop using circular reasoning.

You DECLARED this ‘wrong,” but you certainly have not demonstrated it.  Perhaps the Bible says the body is a gift that does not mean it isn’t.  Ask most lovers if they are not a gift to each other or if their Children are not a gift.  There are many ways we are a gift.  It is more than just physical.

Now who has the evidence?
 

 

You know what circular reasoning is right?

The bible and Christianity provide the christian view--> the christian view provides evidence for Christianity and the bible--> The bible and Christianity provide the christian view--> ad infinitum

 

"Ask most lovers if they are not a gift to each other or if their Children are not a gift."

THat's not the argument. Ask any parents with a kid in a coma if it's a gift. The body itself is not a gift--it's just a lump of particles.

 

"You DECLARED this ‘wrong,” but you certainly have not demonstrated it."

You're the one who needs to demonstrate that any of this is evidence for Christianity, as opposed to "evidence" for islam, or judiasm, or any other faith that emphasizes sex for that matter. You also need to demonstrate that this is convincing or worthwhile evidence; the fact that some parts of sex and love align with the bible is essentially irrelevant. The bible was created after people were having sex, so it's no surprise that it would address some parts of it somewhat accurately.

 

That would be like saying the fact that Christianity uses writing is evidence for Christianity because people think words are important.

 

Not all evidence is equal anyways, and at best this type of evidence is gutter evidence.

 

The Christian reasoning is evidence for Christianity and it meets all the tests for evidence.  However I am not trying to convince those whjo are not open to convincing.  I will leave it up to the readers who by the way are far more than the small group who only want to derail this topic from the very beginning.

 

Your definition of evidence is awful. It meets none of the tests for good evidence, except maybe in your own personal biased opinion. I'd be open to convincing if you had any convincing evidence. And all the readers do is thumbs down your posts. That's why your rep is so low, and going lower all the time. Plus readers aren't sifting through the 59 pages of this gigantic diatribe. All we can do at this point is to try and derail the thread because this thread is full of your terrible arguments and selective argumentation. You've ruined any kind of debate 55 pages ago. People don't come onto this forum to become informed of your ridiculous position; they come here for information on lengtening lifespans and supplements..

Edited by serp777, 15 November 2014 - 11:02 PM.

[serp777]

And as usual you ignored a number of my other arguments, probably because you know you're incapable of properly debating them

[serp777]

Do you recognise your own negative agenda?

 

No offense, but obviously he doesn't lol

[shadowhawk]

Do you feel desire because there is such a thing as sex and the body or do you have a body because there is such a thing as desire.  Do you desire the real or does your desire create the real?  Which came first?

 

Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for these desires exists. A baby feels hunger; well, there is such a thing as food. A duckling wants to swim; well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire; well, there is such a thing as sex. If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probably explanation is that I was made for another world.

Edited by shadowhawk, 17 November 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[The Brain]

I think you live in another world

[shadowhawk]

Shadowhawk: “SEX   http://www.longecity...-57#entry696827
http://www.longecity...-57#entry697338

The Christian view is that God created man, male and female.  The human body was made by God.  The body in a Christian view is complex.  It consists of a union of two elements, the physical or flesh and the spirit or soul.  For an Atheist you are only a body.

The body in the Christian view is physical and suffers the ultimate fate of all physical things, decay, disorganization and death.  The physical is not all there is and man also has a Spirit.  The body grows old and dies like all physical things but the Spirit is not of the sane nature.  It does not decay and die.  
 

Death in a Christian view is separation.  As long as the Spirit and Body are in union, you are a living soul.  However when the Spirit and Body separate your body, being physical, dies but the Spirit goes on.  Humans are a union of two elements, body and spirit and the result is they are a living soul.  When the body suffers the plight of all physical things the spirit and body separate and the physical dies being separated from the spirit.”

http://www.longecity...-58#entry697699
“We are male and female, irreducibly complex in that for humans to go on they need to procreate and new bodies start the process all over again.  Which came first the man or woman?  Unless both are present at the same time, humankind cannot exist.  Sex is a great mystery and without both man and woman, there is no human sex.”

 

We started off this thread by arguing that the physical aspect of the world was changing.  It was changing from one state to another in time.  Everything in the physical world we know is connected to something else and has its beginning in something else.  This chain of being can be followed back to the big bang.  Anyone who wants to read the arguments can go back to section One.  Here also we have a beginning and cause for humans.  In the Christian faith, the cosmos was created.  How?  We study the world around us to find out.  Why?  We study religion and philosophy to find out.  So our first observation is that the human body has a purpose.”

 

http://www.longecity...-58#entry697814
Adam was alone in the Christian Story and though He had God to fellowship with his purpose was not complete without a further creation.  Which came first the man or woman, the man but the human purpose was not complete without both and God planned it that way.  One purpose of human kinks having a body was to procreate and that took both male and female.  You cannot procreate without the YX and XX chromosomes.  Each pare was incomplete by itself.  Our bodies are not made for ourselves but we were made for another.  A woman’s breasts were not made for herself but for a child.  Our sexual system was not made for ourselves but for another.  Adam discovered he needed an Eve to be complete and she needed hin.  Without the other we are alone and as Adam found out this is very uncomfortable, empty and sad.  We cannot exist without the other in our lives.  We were not made to be alone.  This is the Christian View.

 
 

 

http://www.longecity...-59#entry697937
 The Body is more than each individuals flesh.  If it was simply physical then it would not also be about others.  We are made for each other and that purpose though real is not physical.  Christians call this real non physical, purposeful aspect the Sacramental aspect of reality.  1st, a sacrament is a visible sign that makes something invisible present: like when your friend gives you a flower, it’s not just a chemical reaction of the arm that smears someone a biological product under her nose. No. This bodily action has a meaning that you can’t see in and of itself but is transmitted through the body: I love you. You are important to me. Giving someone a black eye also transmits a message: I don’t like you. ONLY through the body can the invisible be shown. The body is a sacrament: a. Because it shows the invisible (especially in man-woman union shows call to love, image of the triune community of love called God). b. because of its relationship to love. That is, the 2nd meaning of “sacrament” is that the sign in question in some way has to be related to the God of love, which it signifies. In other words, the black eye example from above makes of the body not a sacrament but rather its opposite: an anti-sacrament, a kind of sacrilege, because instead of being a messenger of love, the body becomes a messenger of egotism.

The body is a gift. This flows from the first meaning, because making love real and present for someone else is nothing other than that: giving a gift to the other. Now, when someone gives you a bottle of wine, you don’t say: hey! Wrong type! Or “wrong year” or, “I don’t like the cork!” – you could say that of course, you can do what you want, as you are free: but you’ve just destroyed the gift. Now, the body of the other makes present the person. When you marry someone, you don’t say: well: I marry you as long as you have no wrinkles, as long as you drive a nice car, as long as… well, again, you can say all that: but don’t call it love, as you’ve just destroyed the gift. The gift has to be totally given and totally received, if not, one has left the “logic of the gift” aside and entered into the logic of egotism and selfishness.

It has been asked how this is evidence for Christianity.  It is evidence because the Christian view of sex fits reality.  But more next time.

Precisely through his free will and intelligence, man begins to realize he is alone. There are lots of other things. Porcupines, mosquitos and ice-bears and rocks. But, he feels alone. Why? Because he sees no one like himself. No one that is another “I”. He realizes that he is not an object like the other things. Not something, but somebody, this is what he is. Objects as opposed to persons can be used as a means for an ends: for example, this computer can be used to write an email, a glass, to drink water. With this comes the realization, that man himself is not an object (that is, can never be used as a means for an ends, as this would seek to diminish his freedom, would go against what he is as a person). Yet he also realizes his solitude in another way, as begins to understand, that he can only find himself, giving himself FREELY and receiving an other “I” freely as a gift.  You are not about yourelf alone but about others as father, mother, lover, helpmate, protector, provider, and exist in relationships with everything that exists.  You came into being and exist for others.

 WITHOUT OTHERS YOU ARE ALONE WITH NO PURPOSE.  Where is the evidence for that?  You are lonely and have a desire for others, your body was made that way.  Your desires are telling you the truth.
 

Edited by shadowhawk, 17 November 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[The Brain]

Praise Vishnu!