7 replies to this topic

[holdorfold]

Having just read "The Ultramind Solution" by Dr. Mark Hymen, I'm beginning to supplement amino acids. A big reason is because of a general feeling of impending doom I seem to get now and again, racing thoughts, difficulty sleeping and random bouts of anxious-negative thoughts now and again.

I've bought:

- 5-htp
- L-Theanine
- Taurine
- Tyrosine
- L-Phenylalanine

And I've got some L-Tryptophan on the way.

I started taking the 5-htp 3 days ago, 50mg jsut once a day with a vitimin B complex, zinc and vitimin C. Shortly after taking the supplement, my vision changes. Colours appear more vivid, I feel lightheaded and generally at ease. My mind calms down and the racing thoughts stop. Today is the 3rd day and I've noticed the intensity has gone up and it almost feels like I'm tripping on something. The sky looked absolutely amazing today, colours are so intense but I feel a kind of ungrounded and odd, but still pretty mellow with no anxious thoughts or anything like that which is good. The thing is, I run a small business and this is not the kind of state I want to be in client meetings etc.

I was taking Tyrosine to increase my work related performance, and since part of my job is sales I needed that boost to push through which is very dopamine-y. The problem is, it would tend to make me feel on edge, over-aggressive and angry. So I figured I needed to balance the serotonin.

I'm wondering if maybe my Seratonin is already high and that's why there's this intensity? Or could it be because my body is not used to serotonin so it's having a strong reaction and it will level out after awhile?

[Eruditus]

Ultimately you're body is going to down-regulate the enzymes needed to convert the tyrosine/l-phenylalanine into dopamine and norepinephrine; this also counts for 5 -htp being converted into serotonin. As far as I'm aware when simply supplementing amino acids to improve neurotransmitter prevalence in the brain, tolerance will build very rapidly within a one week to two week period (from personal experience). Not saying it's not viable to help out with mood when used sparingly, just saying there's most likely better ways for continued treatment. Furthermore imho you should also realize that any book named in the sort of style as this 'ultramind solution' is most likely nothing more but a glorified marketing stunt and not worth its proclaimed value.

If you are too sensitive to 5htp try switching over to tryptophan, this is one step down from 5htp and may result in a slower steadier synthesis of serotonin.

EDIT: never combine vitamine b complex directly with 5 htp, as this causes rapid metabolization of the 5htp in the liver leading to increased serotonin in the blood stream (cannot pas through the blood brain barrier once converted into serotonin) which may lead to cardiac fybrosis. http://en.wikipedia....ardiac_fibrosis

Edited by Eruditus, 08 October 2013 - 12:10 AM.

[holdorfold]

Yeah, I've got some l-tryptophan on the way having read it converts into 5-htp so it might be less intense for me.

I take the vitimin B earlier on in the day and then the 5-htp in the evening. Would that be a problem? The B complex has some really high levels of the vitimins though, for instance 100mg of B1 (9000% of the RDA).

*edit* also wouldn't you think that since on just 50mg of 5-htp I'm having such massive psychoactive effects it would mean that it's crossing the blood-brain barrier without too much converting in the liver?

Edited by holdorfold, 08 October 2013 - 12:47 AM.

[Unstoppable]

http://yarchive.net/med/5-htp.html

Read this.

Taking 5htp with B-vitamins is a waste of money and not good for general health.
Stick to your tryptophan once you receive it.

[owtsgmi]

I've always thought that serotonin and dopamine kind of worked along the same axis, opposite to one another. I would ditch the 5-htp and tryptophan and stick with mild dopamine enhancing sups, vitimin B complex, zinc and vitimin C. Since you noticed improvement with Bs and zinc, you may want to get tested for Pyroluria. Here is some info:

Pyroluria is a familial disorder which occurs with stress, where an above-average amount of a substance consisting of "kryptopyrroles" circulate in the body. The substance is harmless in itself, but high levels of these pyrrolles systemically bind with B6 and zinc, preventing the use of these essential nutrients in the brain and body.
The root cause is the production of too much "kryptopyrrole" or "hemepyrrole" in the blood. A pyrrole is a chemical substance that is involved in the formation of heme, which makes blood red. Pyrroles bind with B6 and then with zinc, thus depleting these nutrients.

Pyroluria may occur along with other imbalances as seen in some subtypes of schizophrenia such as histapenia (low histamine), histadelia (high histamine), high copper levels or cerebral allergies. It is the primary imbalance for 20% of schizophrenics.

The symptoms of excess urinary kryptopyrrole first manifest themselves as behavioral abnormalities. Although children tend to be more easily diagnosed than adults, the symptoms are consistent: poor tolerance of physical and emotional stress, mood swings, depression, noise and other tactile sensitivities. Later symptoms can range from severe depression to chronic schizophrenia. Accompanying physical symptoms can include pain, seizures, even complete physical debilitation.

There is a myriad of other symptoms, including severe inner tension, ongoing anxiety, fearfulness, and sometimes episodic anger.

There is a urine lab test available which measures levels of kryptopyrroles. Any alcoholic, or anyone with symptoms indicating the possibility of this condition should have the lab test done.

Alcohol use is one way for pyrolurics to shut off their anxiety, feel more sociable, de-stress, and experience a short time when they feel more normal. Without a knowledge of this chemical imbalance, those who try to quit alcohol use must face coexisting with their symptoms. If additional antianxiety support is needed, GABA, tryptophan, chromium and inositol should be considered.

Pyroluria is treated by restoring levels of vitamin B6 and zinc so that this double deficiency is corrected. Supplementation with vitamin B6 until daily dream recall returns (a normal phenomenon) as well as with zinc and manganese needs to be continued daily. With zinc, manganese and vitamin B6 therapy the pyroluric patient may start to respond in 24 hours and certainly some progress is noted within one week.

However, total recovery may take three to four months. The biochemical imbalance and symptoms will usually recur within one to two weeks if the nutritional program is stopped. [Pfeiffer, 1974]

[holdorfold]

I've always thought that serotonin and dopamine kind of worked along the same axis, opposite to one another. I would ditch the 5-htp and tryptophan and stick with mild dopamine enhancing sups, vitimin B complex, zinc and vitimin C. Since you noticed improvement with Bs and zinc, you may want to get tested for Pyroluria. Here is some info:

Hmm, not sure why I should get tested for Pyroluria. That's quite a leap from my post, don't you think?

I also thought that serotonin and dopamine shuold be in balance, and since the tyrosine was giving me aggression/edge I thought I'd need to supplement for serotonin hence the 5htp.

I've since ditched the 5htp and am using l-tryptophan which is yielding completely different results for me. No more vivid colour tripping, it's barely noticeable but has a subtle calming effect. I'm going to wait a few days and try the tyrosine again.

[owtsgmi]

Yes, maybe a stretch, but the test is cheap and you can do it at home and send it in - basically a data point. And, you did say you had negative thoughts, feelings of impending doom, etc. You also noted an improvement when you took zine and B6. Pyroluria is a spectrum disorder, and you invariably would have a mild case, if any at all.

My point about the serotonin/dopamine spectrum was that instead of taking both 5htp and tyrosine, it may be better just to take one or the other. I used to take copious amounts of 5-htp (for several years). I finally figured out that I didn't have a serotonin problem, but a dopamine one. Just some food for thought.

[holdorfold]

Interesting, although I noted that the 5-htp in particular stopped the negative thoughts/feelings. The effect was just too extreme with the visual effects and ungroundedness. When I stopped taking the 5-htp all of a sudden and continued taking the B6+zinc, I had difficulty sleeping and had my mind was racing like never before. So I broke a 50mg pill and put a quarter into a glass, downed it with water and my mind cleared and I went straight to sleep.

The tryptophan weaned me off the 5htp now, and is treating me well.

I've noticed though, the tyrosine doesn't give me good effects. It causes a feeling of edgy-ness and uncomfortablness. I switched to l-phenylalanine and the results are much better.