9 replies to this topic

[Eruditus]

Hello everyone, seeing as this is my first topic I'll try to keep it short and explain the specific cases to you guys, seeing as the topic title is slightly ambiguous. So yesterday one of my oldest friends stayed round at my flat for the day and at first for a few hours everything went fine and we got along brilliant. I told him about all the new endeavors I had taken into the green and fertile pastures of nootropics. At my lengthy rantings he seemed to muster a genuine interest, which I could appreciate as an effort of him to relate with me in something he does not really understand nor wishes to learn about.

The key difference however during this encounter compared to one prior is that I have by now given op smoking cannabis for over two weeks and he has not. Whereas in the past we got high together, now he would have to get high without me; which is fine for me, I was totally able to tolerate him smoking up in my presence without the nagging sensation of wanting to smoke up myself. This is where it got ugly though. I noted the first and foremost negative side effect of my noopept usage soon after he got high. I would get irritated at the frequent need to repeat myself or explain things in greater detail then was actually necessary simply because my friend all too often could not admit I was right and he was wrong. Most of these tiny differences ended up in me totally annihilating his arguments or pointing out that his actual motivation for disagreeing with me was hypocritically orientated, with me unfailing to recognize an underlying motive.

On specific example of this would be. While he was playing a game, I was trying to advise him on what to do seeing as he had already died a few times. Prior to his final attempt we both agreed it would be my turn to try if he died again. This would have been his 6th time attempting to beat the same enemy in the game. Seeing as I knew the game better than him and knew what animation followed what moves and how to timely evade them, I tried to tell him when to dodge. My timing was immaculate, and he missed it, resulting in immediate death. His response was: Couldn't you have said it earlier !!?? :s This totally put me off helping him any further and I said: Whatever, my turn. At this he balked and claimed it was my fault he died and therefore he deserved another attempt. This made me furious, I pointed out that my sole motivation for saying anything at all was to help him beat the enemy and that he should not try to cheat me out of a fair chance to have a go myself based on such a trivial and technical detail that was falsely put to begin with. He didn't quite now what to respond to this but still he refused to hand over the controller.

Another example of a similar scenario would be how I asked him at least 5 times to move his seat 30 cm's to the left so I could more easily get up and move past him through the room. The 6th time I had to ask I also asked him to stay at said position. His response was a blunt no with no further explanation. I requested if it was the tv view that was bothering him and he replied yes. So I promptly changed the angle of the tv to remove his issues. Instead of actually doing so however he asks me why I can't just wait for him to move like a normal person. I stated I have done so several times and each time you were so wholly absorbed in the game and that it took you about 5 to 10 seconds to actually respond. It would be easier for me if you just stayed over there. Massive nerve swelling occurring for me at this point; I am having such a hard time not to completely mentally batter him... it's unbelievable how frustrated this got me...

After a few of this scenario I was looking at him as a totally different person then the one I used to know. I felt he was being a sloth with not an ounce of consideration towards me in my own flat and only being able to act out of self interest. I even felt myself growing more loath for his typical stoner behaviorism. This has never been in my nature before, so right now I'm coming out with this here to request if anyone has any answer that might perhaps resolve the issue. I myself was thinking phenibut or maybe l-theanine, but if anyone has any better solutions then please help save my friendship.

Edited by Eruditus, 11 October 2013 - 02:42 AM.

[Nigel Meech]

The excessive rage is probably from marijuana withdrawal and/or noopept. Even if your friend acted inconsiderate, you are taking the whole thing too seriously.

Edited by Nigel Meech, 11 October 2013 - 01:59 AM.

[Eruditus]

I know I overreacted for a fact and noopept most certainly factored into the equation. But marijuana is no longer a trigger for me, I'm eating well and sleeping well like I used to before I ever started. More likely to also have contributed to my irritability and which I forgot to mention was that I also quit smoking tobacco a week back, however even tobacco has lost all appeal to me as of late. I think this is because Noopept re-sensitized my nicotine receptors as they are subclass of the acetylcholine receptor.

[▲420MD]

Marijuana is works alongside cholinergics in an odd fashion, there is definitely enhancement of the "psychedelic" dissociative effects of THC/THCV.
Using Noopept will enhance any drug's effect positive, negative or neutral. Also, if your taking choline - stop. If you get headaches take minor doses. I don't take choline with my racetams or noopept, excess choline has it's own issues like any neurotransmitter.

[Eruditus]

I did not smoke any marijuana, nor did my friend partake in any cholinergics. I do take some choline, but in minute doses. I've found the come up of noopept to be quite strong and without a 100mg of choline, it can leave me feeling numb and zoned out for a good two hours. My dose of noopept is 10mg in the morning and depending on whether I want to stay up late or have anything that needs taking care of I take another 10mg early afternoon and latest by 6pm (6pm keeps me awake till about now - 4:30am; I can feel the last psychostimulant residual effects fading).

Edited by Eruditus, 11 October 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[Godof Smallthings]

If you have only taken noopept for a few days it could be worth doing it until you have reached 10 days or so, as these effects may just be adaptation effects in the early stage.

That being said, noopept and choline supplementation made me unreasonable and aggressive too, and did not seem to help much overall. I stopped taking them and the mood problems gradually faded away.

Have you had any episodes of clinical depression in your life?

[Eruditus]

Many it would seem, but none to be considered of a clinical level seeing as I made it a personal point not the seek out professional help, but rather work through my problems on my own. Since late adolescence, bouts of depression and anxiety have slowly deteriorated my life quality. Especially after an accidental drug overdose on MDMA and ketamine about a year ago; after this my mental health issues began escalating rapidly and so did my drug use. which also further aggravated the issues I was trying to self medicate it with. Had some real impulsive hedonistic traits when it came to Ecstacy or MDMA, I just could never control myself; more was never enough and to this day it surprises me I didn't OD again on the stuff at one point . Eventually I could no longer deny depression as a result of serotoninergic neurotoxicity and had to totally stop with all hard drugs, kept on smoking weed though.

I just still wasn't the same after another six months, my anxiety had come to the point that even being among friends, I would feel inferior and a constant need for being apologetic as if to indicate that every fault I made in their presence was a sign I was unworthy of their friendship. So about 3 weeks ago I gave up cannabis because even though it was one of the only substances to relief this feeling of anxiety, I would still become very antisocial and apathetic whenever smoking more than a few puffs (this was not how I started out in the beginning of my cannabis use at all; back then I could rattle someone's ears of their heads or until someone had to say stop or I would just keep on going :p). From thereon in I think you know the rest of my story, got some noopept and started taking 10-20 mg a day about 10 days ago. Also quit smoking the exact same day I started on the noopept. Supplementing with uridine stack and healthy dietary lifestyle choices including also a daily excercise regime consisting mainly of cardio workout (jogging 30 minutes every 2 days and brisk walking at least one hour on days I'm not jogging)

The combination of all of the above has annihilated all my anxiety and affective related issues and seems to have pulled me out of my steep cognitive decline setting me back on the course I was always intended to follow. So if the answer would be cut out the noopept to avoid or reduce irritability, then I would have to say I am not willing to do that at this point. Any other suggestions are very welcome however

Edited by Eruditus, 11 October 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Godof Smallthings]

First of all, great job on quitting smoking and starting the exercise. Regular cardio exercise like that can work magic in its own way if you keep doing it. I started doing it last year, and many things in life improved. The extra strength I got to deal with everything was just great, not to mention how good it felt to be outside every day.

Given that you've quit weed and cigarettes quite recently, your body is still in withdrawal to some extent. It really is not strange that you experience mood changes right now. Just try to see through them as best you can - it seems like you have an intact sense of what is reasonable normal behaviour, and are not completely embedded in your ego - this also helps a lot. If you want to get even better at dealing with moods, I recommend checking out mindfulness practices - if you do them as often as you can, you will be able to get to the root of your mental conditioning, and develop a freedom to act contrary to your mood swings. It can be hard work at times, but the breakthroughs are amazing, as is the new freedom of relating to life one finds.

Check if you can find a mindfulness course or perhaps a Goenka vipassana retreat in your area. They are really useful.

I think you have already decided to keep taking the noopept for a while since you appear to feel it helps you with the changes in your life. Why not, it is still early days - just be observant of your mood.

To be honest, I don't think your success in accomplishing these changes is due to the noopept; I think they are due to the strength within you.

[Eruditus]

Thanks for the sound advice, this actually set me about on thinking on my own nature and what philosophy I am most complementary too. I ended up going through quite a few eastern ones, but the one that definitely peaked my interest the most would be Taoism; in fact I've been to the library to pick up some Taoist literature and its fascinating how I've actually sort of already leaned towards this ideology on a subconscious level for most of my life. The only problem was the confusion originating between the external influence of my western cultural background messing with my own inherent beliefs making me think I should somehow manage to change and become more misguided like everyone else in order to fit in and only then could I be happy. It's teaching me a lot, I would like to also find a Taoist purist teacher to get into some of the specifics but I hear these are quite rare and fairly reclusive regarding their knowledge and practices towards outsiders.

[▲420MD]

If your still up for trying Noopept I would try cutting out the Choline, that was my issue. Some people just don't respond well to Noopept.
See here for information about too much choline.

Subdued or depressed mood
Anhedonia (inability to experience pleasure)
Difficulty concentrating
Difficulty with higher-order or complex thought processes
Mental fatigue
Mental confusion
Memory problems
Decreased motivation
Feeling overly sleepy or tired (particularly in the evening), despite adequate sleep and rest
Difficulty understanding or performing tasks
Pessimistic, negative ideation or rumination
Feelings of helplessnes and hopelessness
Fretfulness
Irritability or anger
Emotional heightening and lability
Sadness, tearfulness
Blurred vision
Headache
Dry mouth
Altered sense of smell; heighted sensitivity to odors; olfactory delusions
Stomach pain or discomfort
Intestinal gas or bloating
Diarrhea or constipation
Nausea, dizziness, and vomiting
Muscle pain or discomfort
Joint pain, discomfort, or swelling
Tooth or jaw pain or discomfort
Tingling or numbness in arms or legs
Muscle weakness
Increased urinary frequency or problems with bladder control
Flu or cold-like symptoms
Weakening of immune system and increased susceptibility to illness
Cough
Nasal discharge
Chills or sensation of cold
Cold feet, hands
Sleep disturbance
Introversion
Anxiety
More and vivid dreaming, and higher incidence of nightmares
Decreased levels in the brain of the neurotransmitters, serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine
Interference with the release of the above brain transmitters, because of higher inhibition

quote is from the website above...