173 replies to this topic

[shadowhawk]

How many bones does God have? Given that he made us in his image, I imagine the answer is 206? Shadow?

I don't know. I thought it was 217.

[johnross47]

What difference would it make beyond theoretical value if we knew the answers to these perplexing cosmological questions? Would fewer children be born with cancer? Would humanity stop whittling away ecosystems and eliminating fragile species? Would we have cleaner air, water, and lands?

I doubt it would make much difference. The believers would still believe, and the doubters would still doubt. Each would still accommodate environmental abuses within their beliefs.

It is always difficult to put future value on blue sky research. I doubt many people would have predicted modern electronics when the new theories of atoms, quantum phenomena and relativity came out about 100 or so years ago. Look at us now. Knowing how our universe came about might lead to new understanding of fundamental phenomena and new forms of technology. What we have now would certainly seem like magic to Elizabethans; we probably can't guess at technologies arising from theories we don't yet know.

How many bones does God have? Given that he made us in his image, I imagine the answer is 206? Shadow?

I don't know. I thought it was 217.

Googled it.....206 in an adult, 300-350 in an infant. They fuse as the child grows.

[sthira]

[...snip]
Knowing how our universe came about might lead to new understanding of fundamental phenomena and new forms of technology. What we have now would certainly seem like magic to Elizabethans; we probably can't guess at technologies arising from theories we don't yet know.

Ok, so I'm wrong, and knowing more  about the origins of the universe also has unforeseeable practicality.  I also believe that merely wondering about these huge questions -- Who are we?  Why do we exist?  Why does anything exist?  Did the universe "always" exist or did it bang into being? -- these ancient, reaching questions are some of the most magnificent that have ever been pondered.

[N.T.M.]

"I'm going to make some people and if some of them don't quite come up to spec on me-worship I'll amuse myself by torturing them for eternity."

There are special institutions for people like that and they're not churches.

Just another facet of the argument stating that God is either benevolent and impotent or omnipotent but indifferent (or malevolent). A god who's both omnipotent and benevolent leads to contradiction (as I've shown many times before).

[johnross47]

In connection with Vilenkin, it does puzzle me when he considers the possibility that "god" might be a formula. To some extent that was put into his mouth....he possibly meant a creative force in a much more vague way. It is rather like the extreme reification of Plato or Penrose to postulate any kind of conceptual entity having a real existence when nothing exists. If by nothing he means a quantum foam, in which there is a great deal of activity it also seems odd to equate it with nothing. Nothing continuous perhaps, but a lot of extremely transient events, some of which might have created our universe. Is that the same as an equation? Is that the same as nothing?
Personally my mental alarms ring whenever anyone reifies anything. As Wiki says;

" Reification (also known as concretism, or the fallacy of misplaced concreteness) is a fallacy of ambiguity, when an abstraction (abstract belief or hypothetical construct) is treated as if it were a concrete, real event, or physical entity.^[1][2] In other words, it is the error of treating as a concrete thing something which is not concrete, but merely an idea.
Another common manifestation is the confusion of a model with reality. Mathematical or simulation models may help understand a system or situation but real life may differ from the model (e.g. 'the map is not the territory').
Reification is generally accepted in literature and other forms of discourse where reified abstractions are understood to be intended metaphorically,^[2] but the use of reification in logical arguments is usually regarded as a fallacy."
It would surely be as easy to say that the quantum foam has certain properties, as to say that a formula describing it has real existence outside of our minds. Always bearing in mind that the whole thing is hypothetical anyway.

To answer my own question.....I was reading something else and it was clearly explained that the cosmologist's nothing is not the same as the common man's. The cosmologist means the quantum void.

[shadowhawk]

johnross47:
Googled it.....206 in an adult, 300-350 in an infant. They fuse as the child grows.

Are you sure? Googled told you that? When they are fused are they two bones or just one? Thanks for the Google..

[shadowhawk]

"I'm going to make some people and if some of them don't quite come up to spec on me-worship I'll amuse myself by torturing them for eternity."

There are special institutions for people like that and they're not churches.

Just another facet of the argument stating that God is either benevolent and impotent or omnipotent but indifferent (or malevolent). A god who's both omnipotent and benevolent leads to contradiction (as I've shown many times before).

Interesting, show it again. How does being omnipotent, keep one from being benevolent?

[N.T.M.]

johnross47:
Googled it.....206 in an adult, 300-350 in an infant. They fuse as the child grows.

Are you sure? Googled told you that? When they are fused are they two bones or just one? Thanks for the Google..

They're considered one.

Source: I've formally studies medicine (RN + preparation for medical school).

"I'm going to make some people and if some of them don't quite come up to spec on me-worship I'll amuse myself by torturing them for eternity."

There are special institutions for people like that and they're not churches.

Just another facet of the argument stating that God is either benevolent and impotent or omnipotent but indifferent (or malevolent). A god who's both omnipotent and benevolent leads to contradiction (as I've shown many times before).

Interesting, show it again. How does being omnipotent, keep one from being benevolent?

I'll have to dig up a few posts and add a few comments. I don't have time atm because I have to leave for work, but I'll do it once I get some time.

[shadowhawk]

Thanks. I am only kidding about the bones.

[johnross47]

https://www.google.c...iw=1177&bih=713

[Deep Thought]

Imagine what Christian "sharia" laws would be like:

Newspaper title "Man caught working on sunday, sentenced to death by stoning."

Edited by Deep Thought, 22 January 2014 - 09:56 AM.

[johnross47]

Imagine what Christian "sharia" laws would be like:

Newspaper title "Man caught working on sunday, sentenced to death by stoning."

Man caught thinking! Church demands stoning.

Couple who had fun separated by courts

Gay couple required to marry lesbian duo.

You could hours of fun out of this.

[shadowhawk]

Imagine what Christian "sharia" laws would be like:

Newspaper title "Man caught working on sunday, sentenced to death by stoning."

Got it wrong...the Christians were among the ones being stoned. Sounds like you are into this.

[johnross47]

Atheist stoned for having sense of humour.

[shadowhawk]

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554
Oct. 23, 2013 A
all johnross47 quotes

"His arguments always require a leap from logic to unsupported assertion. He just hides it better, in a flurry of showmanship, like a fairground snake-oil salesman.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619355
This is another piece of conjuring.
http://www.longecity..._30#entry619380
I a not impressed by your reference to a God gene. That is tabloid press overinterpretation of shoddy research, the same as the silly idea that there is a special centre in the brain that works for religion.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619774
I struggle to cope with the idea that anyone could take such peurile nonsense seriously. Can you find anyone else on the planet who can't see the hilarious silliness is proposition 2? The cause of the universe is an unsolved question. I could say it was caused by the fairies at the bottom of my garden with as much justification and grip on reality.
http://www.longecity..._60#entry619821
I long ago got bored arguing with a stream of unattributed quotes and misapplied misunderstood ideas from, as usual, again, unattributed sources. If you strip out the abuse there is nothing left that is original to the poster.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623323
I've put many logical points here.....you never address them....you either post another link or a short irrelevant insult. If you produced your objections to my posts in your own words and in the form of a proper logical discussion, I would treat you with more respect.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623447
I don't believe in any of the proposed gods. i have never seen a sound argument for accepting any of the god propositions. I do find the mental gymnastics of believers fascinating. From a psychological point of view, the mental gyrations of intelligent and educated believers tell us a lot about how the mind works, and the evolution of gods, from the completely understandable primitive forms to the modern versions, tells us a lot about the history of human understanding and culture.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623500
Once again you demonstrate your inability to deal with anything other than competitive quoting. The last few posts all dealt calmly and rationally with the problem of the possibility of evidence for any sort of religion, but you just declare it to be off topic
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623693
True believers are major practitioners of voluntary confirmation bias. Shadowhawk probably actually genuinely believes he has answered my points but in fact he has never even gone as far as to admit their existence
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623784
He teaches logic? At a university? Really? Which one; there's not a lot in Scotts Valley since Bethany U. closed down in 2011.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623912
the fundamental problem with all of these arguments is that they are trivial semantic tricks, but they have other flaws as well.

....he is indulging in dishonesty as well as cheap semantic trickery.
http://www.longecity...120#entry624206
Sarcastic remarks befitting a "teacher from hell" do nothing to advance the argument.

ID and its variants are an attempt to use pseudo-science and superficial compliance with scientific method to fake up an argument in support of the same old religious position its proponents have always held.

More "teacher from hell" fury
http://www.longecity...120#entry625186
do you read responses? If so do you understand what you've read? Do you struggle with reading comprehension? ....Do you write? Are you able to form your own thoughts and express them, or is it all just copy, paste, and videos of others' ideas? Do you have thoughts on these matters you're able to communicate?...I have asked him these questions too; over and over, and never had a meaningful answer. He raises a point then abuses you for being "off topic" or calls your answer a logical fallacy, but without ever offering any argument to back this up...This passage is a perfect example of the incoherent rage and misrepresentation that he resorts too...
http://www.longecity...120#entry625349
"There's no evidence of the supernatural claims of Christianity, but there's plenty of evidence of Christianity's brainwashing, as perfectly evidenced in this topic."
http://www.longecity...150#entry625777
what a load of rubbish. Talking fast doesn't improve the quality of the rubbish and just because he piles it high doesn't mean it turns to gold. These are just the same arguments we've seen over and over, and dismissed just as often. They didn't hold water last week and they'll still leak like sieves next week. The only difference this time is that the format is obviously aimed at bolstering the faith of the most credulous and uneducated believers.
I see no point in elaborating. You haven't given a reasoned objection on any of the many times I've elaborated before. If you can't participate like the adults on this forum why don't you go somewhere else?
http://www.longecity...150#entry625800

He's basically a religiously obsessed troll and I should just learn to ignore him.
http://www.longecity...150#entry626020
You may not have noticed but you're talking to yourself. You denied the existence and sincerity of everyone else's contributions so they've all gone away to somewhere an actual conversation is taking place.
http://www.longecity...180#entry627792
Hugh Ross has been criticized by CSUF professor emeritus Mark Perakh for crude errors and misunderstanding of basic concepts of thermodynamics together with misinterpretations of Hebrew words....much of this stuff is just a case of piling shit into very high heaps.
http://www.longecity...180#entry629696
So I gave you chance to act like a decent honest human. You failed. Goodbye.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630367
His ultimate justification for his conversion is that he had an experience; confusing events entirely in his brain with external reality, which is practically the definition schizophrenia. Many of the statements of religious people would be signs of mental illness if made outside a religious context. I've given him chance after chance to engage in a proper analysis of arguments but he only responds with abuse and derision. Looking over his performance in other topics I would have agree; there is a pattern.
http://www.longecity...210#entry630418
There is something quite self deluding about the believers claim to know what lies beyond current knowledge. The fact that science cannot answer the question might be regarded as a warning sign by sensible people, but the believer steps right in and says " We know the answer."
http://www.longecity...210#entry631071
You are more guilty of all these logical errors than anyone else Shadowhawk. You are entranced by cheap semantic tricks and shabby failed old "proofs" that nobody takes seriously, except W L Craig, who nobody takes seriously. Additionally you constantly abuse people in the most gratuitously insulting way, and presume to know things about them that, really, you clearly don't.
http://www.longecity...240#entry634080
The Kalam is a shabby seive....There are a huge number of flaws in this tired old argument. It should have been allowed to rest in its grave rather than being resurrected by Craig. One simple problem in it is that the argument as a whole is a compounding error.
http://www.longecity...270#entry634607
You've summed up this nonsense pretty completely. How can somebody who claims to be a teacher of logic possibly give this more than the few seconds needed to see that it is so trivially stupid that it it isn't even wrong. It's not wrong because it is so far from being any kind of coherent argument that it doesn't fit into any kind of error category. Don't expect any sort of reasoned explanation of why he thought it was worth posting; he never explains why he is shouting, "off topic", or "logical fallacy", or "straw man" or whatever is his insult of the week. I have never yet seen him explain any claimed logical objection. Not once. Not ever.
http://www.longecity...270#entry635057
As usual you have ducked the issue when somebody makes a criticism of your logic. Answer the point or admit you can't.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635439
I'm challenging you again...answer the point instead of pretending that nothing has been said. Prove your not a fraud.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635586
Like all these proofs, the immediate reaction to this, of any reasonable uncommitted person, is a strong feeling that it is nonsense; it looks like logic and it all seems to be in working order, but an ordinary grade BS detector tells you something is wrong. It's very wrong. This crock can be used to prove the existence of just about anything, gods, man-eating teapots, fairies, whatever you like. It's all in the definition used at the start. You can use it to prove god does not exist by negating the first premise. It is a great source of silliness because it is ultimately worthless.
http://www.longecity...330#entry636845
The argument is worthless because it can used to prove the existence of things, such as fairies, which are patently absurd. This alone is enough to expose it as a mere semantic conjuring trick. Powerful tools, like guns and modal logic, should not be put in the hands of infants, madmen or people with an axe to grind.
http://www.longecity...330#entry637384
One of the many difficulties involved in arguing with Christians is their incorrigible dishonesty. It's exactly the same problem as when creationists and intelligent designers say that they are not claiming that a specific god did it. ...
http://www.longecity...330#entry637969
find it hard to understand how a grown adult can seek to use such shamelessly aggressive denials when the facts are only a short scroll away....Just because something is possible does not make it actual, and when you combine it with the definitional issues you have chosen to avoid confronting, the whole thing is exposed as a steaming pile. S5 is a very dangerous piece of sophistry.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638268
No doubt you will declare yourself the winner simply by repeating all the rubbish over and over and ignoring all the other poster's points. Then you can reward yourself with some emoticons. Do you really imagine anyone will waste their time going back over your endless paste jobs? They don't suddenly become correct by repetition.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638353
The non believers understand perfectly. What is keeping us from agreeing with SH is the fact that his arguments are poor and mostly just wrong, and occasionally not even that. His style is offensive dishonest and evasive and would push people away from him and his god. From the quality of the posts here I would guess that we don't need to plead lack of intellect or knowledge. We are quite used to being patronised by believers so don't feel guilty about your remarks; we understand.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638543
I would treat you with more respect if you behaved better. Everyone else presents points and addresses the points made by others. You keep trying to compel everyone to talk only to you. Your comment about trying to derail the topic is very revealing; do you start the topic with a rigid plan which concludes with us all converting? In an open discussion nobody should be dictating the proceedings. It isn't actually a crime to pursue the topic as we want, or to examine aspects of it that you find inconvenient.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638579
post 386
Clearly you have experienced all sorts of emotional turmoil which has interacted with your religious faith, but, it has no bearing on the issues here. SH has presented a debate on evidence for Christianity and that is what we have addressed. Unfortunately it has been one sided. We have raised logical points and he has ignored them and/or shouted abuse.
http://www.longecity...360#entry638766
Your view of the relationship between SH and the other posters is so bizzare that your only possible excuses are either religious delusions or that you are taking the piss. (if you know the expression? It's British) If your post is serious it is deeply offensive and shows massive ignorance of other people's lives and personal dignity and worth.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638782
Looks like the topic is thoroughly derailed. Now you know the difference.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638963
Now that your fellow believer (he is an agnostic, not a christian) has really derailed the topic you might like to rethink the way you answer the rest of us. You may not recall it but I do remember previously saying that if we knew which of the Christian gods you adhere to, it would make it much easier to address the issues. Not in those words precisely, but I have life to live, stuff to do.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638966
For me this is like some random overheard snippet from a highly controlled, paranoid, alien culture. I'm not sure I could communicate meaningfully with the writer; the cuture specific references are so dense and so opaque that the intended meaning escapes.
http://www.longecity...390#entry638987
In a general sense I can go along with much of this. This topic is going nowhere. SH keeps posting more and more clips of preachers claiming to prove the existence of a god; they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence....You might argue for ever about the definition of god; (religious people usually conduct those arguments with guns and swords; they obviously don't have much faith in reasoning) but there's not much to go on except holy books written by people who couldn't and didn't have any evidence or understanding of the nature of the problem....Our universe might be a simple accident to something that big, or a brief and temporary amusement; a throwing of celestial mechanical dice to see what happens. Whatever, it's a long way from christianity.
http://www.longecity...390#entry639682
...."they are all wrong; all these arguments have been shown to be wrong over and over; no serious non-theist thinkers give them any time or credence" Where do you see any claims about what I have done?....your whole response goes on like this. Red Herrings, Straw Men, Logical Fallacies; you've got them all. This is why you are a waste of time, and wasting your own proselitizing time.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639761
You are really one of the most offensive people I've ever wasted time on. Are you calling me a liar? Really? Sitting there in California you know I'm not in the middle of moving house? You lie, you smear, you misrepresent and you constantly accuse everyone else of the things you do yourself.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639881
OK I get the message; you are supposed to be a teacher of logic and you haven't been able to answer a single one of these points, so you hate me to the greatest degree that a love everybody christian can manage. (i.e. a lot) If you were a decent human being I would feel sorry for you and try to be nice but since I am ASD and care very deeply for the rules and honesty, I find it very hard to apply the psychological lessons I've learned; your case is extreme.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640437
Very noble and sensible, but look at the hate filled diatribes that follow your post. What I would like is a reasoned discussion of the topic where everybody follows the rules and logical points are met with logical analysis, but it isn't going to happen here; any attempt to challenge his dogmas is met with vitriolic eruptions of accusation and denial. My language may sometimes stray into the colourful but it isn't simple abuse and it does relate to the points being attacked, which are often childishly silly and deserve no leniency when they are put forward by a professional logician. He does not claim to be a civilian in this subject. He is a fully armed combatant, but instead of using his logical weapons he resorts to childish abuse and constant extreme breaches of the rules.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640439
The time and effort put into this suggests a dangerous level of obsession, (and too much time on your hands). I'm glad I don't live anywhere near you; I would feel the need of high level security. By the way, to save others from wasting time, the links in the above are just to where the quotes were taken from. They aren't answers to the points, obviously, since no answers were ever given.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640578
Well known experiments and theories with no connection to the existence of the Christian god. Such a conclusion would require exactly the same leap, already rejected, from the world of evidence and reason to a world of faith and evidence free presumption
http://www.longecity...450#entry641198
You're back to piling up rubbish and expecting it to turn into gold. It stays rubbish no matter how often you repeat it or how high you pile it. All of this nonsense has been shown to be rubbish over and over. There's no reason anyone should waste time presenting you with repeat arguments you will just ignore. If you choose to ignore the science and to believe creationist distortions instead, you're not going to find many followers on this forum, and I'll be surprised if anyone can be bothered picking all this nonsense apart and giving you the necessary biology lessons. Evolution is a demonstrable fact but if you choose to close your eyes that's just your problem. If you choose to believe it could only work with a divine hand pulling the strings, again, that's your problem and you're probably incorrigible. You've certainly demonstrated no ability to take in new information so far, or to change your views when the facts change. I suspect that, if you really are the teacher you claim to be, you know deep down inside that this stuff fails all the tests you would apply to students' work; you are suffering from a massive cognitive dissonance overload and taking it out on us. "
http://www.longecity...450#entry641426

NO ARGUMENTS, JUST NAME CALLING LOGICAL FALLACIES AND ATTEMPTED DERAILMENT OF TOPIC, “IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??”.

TO POST 456
http://www.longecity.../feature/bylawA

[shadowhawk]

"IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY???" topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
STHIRA, AD HOMININE ATTACKS, NAME CALLING, OFF TOPIC DERAILMENTS, VIOLATION OF THE FORUM RULES, LOGICAL FALLACIES.
Atheists can’t stand a rational free speach discussion of the issues.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forum Rulls http://www.longecity...390#entry639554
Oct 9, 2013

"The idea of God is passed genetically, God has been naturally selected. The idea could also be a virus we catch that has different strains, eg, Hinduism, Judaism, Baha'i... The idea of God could also be part of Jung's collective unconscious. Or whatever. The idea of God has many manifestations, some of which may be too wild and far out for suburban Christian heads. ...
no one knows if God is real or God is not real
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry616774
Most of us (scientists, academicians, thinkers, artists) are trained to ignore Jesus people. As best as we can we try to ignore you. Dear God: Save Us From Your Followers. But you're noisy, you're persistent, and you're annoying. ...
we don't believe the same fucked up schizophrenic wrathful shit you do.... Do you realize how crazy you appear? Nope. So rather than engage you in crazy, we ignore you, we let you go away: just go: just go: and just go: and just go away and believe whatever you'd like. Go in peace, man: freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion. ...Your history is a bloodbath. You've exiled, tortured, or killed those who won't adhere to your faith. You've done it before, you'll probably do it again. You'll exile, torture or kill we who don't find you pleasant or nice. History repeats itself, and as sure as the sun rises your violent history will attempt to repeat. Until then: go in peace, and we'll work to stop you from committing more violence.
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry618128
What I don't understand is the shame associated with the simple fact that we don't know if god exists or not. Do humble puja and repeat ten thousand times: we don't know. What's wrong with ignorance? Amazing things exist within this universe of which we're ignorant. Why then is ignorance of illogical, supernatural entities so shameful to religious people who must prove their gods exist or else all be damned?...
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623539
This is the better conversation to have, imho, rather than rehashing ad nauseum the same ole religio-shiz. We created mean, grandfatherly bearded sky god(s) and then dismantled them centuries ago. As Nietzsche wrote "...not everyone has gotten the news..."...we know that we don't know if god exists. We also know we don't know if other dimensions exist beyond these in which we're encased. We don't know what happens beyond the speed of light, for example, but we calculate that time and space "cease to exist." Past the speed of light is completely irrational to us -- like god -- but that doesn't necessarily mean new realities or dimensions cannot unfold past our reasoned limits. But until we have evidence of "more" than what's in this universe then it's faith and the wild ass speculation of scifi. Cosmology is fun! It's a pity that religiosity infects it in the pop arena.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623606
Do tell us how "we are getting close" God is coming soon? Do you have direct communication with the Almighty? Is He giving you a voice?
http://www.longecity..._90#entry623751
We see this reflected in you: you've been repeatedly shown you're mistaken in much of your copy and paste bold big-fonted words, and yet you keep shouting on and on in your threatening little charming cardboard cutout manner. Stick around and keep proselytizing for Jesus -- you're great, ur amusing us! Dance, little puppet for j-dolla bill.
http://www.longecity...120#entry625216
A few questions. First, do you read responses? If so do you understand what you've read? Do you struggle with reading comprehension?... A few more questions. Do you write? Are you able to form your own thoughts and express them, or is it all just copy, paste, and videos of others' ideas? Do you have thoughts on these matters you're able to communicate?
http://www.longecity...120#entry625294
Yeah, I agree he's a funny fellow. Generally, I'm not too interested in religious people or thought, and I'm not quite sure why I keep posting stuff here. SH is amusing, but I agree I'd like to see more original thought, and less of other people's ideas. If I want to know what some Jesus channel darling has to say I guess I'd find it on my own. He appears to be proselytizing for whatever reason, who knows....
http://www.longecity...120#entry625428
...if we're talking about the Xtian god of SH, then I'm with you: it's a myth that we've outgrown. It's dying a slow painful death, and we say good riddance. Once upon a time this Xtian god was clearly useful to certain sections of the human population (mostly white, power-holding males) but today it's antiquated and in need of updates.
http://www.longecity...300#entry635499
Maybe god doesn't want us to believe in god. Since god won't give us one clue or another, god wants us to be atheists. God is like way too almighty to be acknowledged. You know, like high school. God is the really boss kid and too cool to nod a simple "Hi!" to the rest of us dorks straggling in the hallways of life. ...
http://www.longecity...330#entry638013
If god sparked the big bang -- bully for you, god, thanks for our suffering little lives. But what does god's existence or non-existence have to do with anyone's daily life since god doesn't care one way or another about ongoing communication?
http://www.longecity...360#entry638099
God: Now I shall appoint you, Shadowhawk, as my hawkingly shadowy voice. On an internet forum about vitamins, thou shalt use giant, colored fonts to argue up my Being...
Shadowhawk: thanks, God, I'll post a bunch of random YouTube polemics, repeat ad nauseum lists of the names and descriptions of logical fallacies ("I teach logic" you know), and then I'll copy and paste other dude's sentences about your glorious glory, etc, etc....
God: thou shalt do these things and more, Shadowhawk, since I'm too almightily cool for any of those human fuckwads on that tiresome nootropically obsessed site
http://www.longecity...360#entry638109
Of course there's evidence for Christianity: HIV. According to yall ztians, God gives AIDS to people he doesn't like. But like Sarah Silverman reminds -- when god gives you AIDS, it's an opportunity to make lemon-AIDS.
http://www.longecity...390#entry639590
Jerry Fallwell says: "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."
Thus, God's existence is proven
http://www.longecity...390#entry639596
Haha oh shiiit this is so messed up. But I quote:
"God proved His love on the Cross. When Christ hung, and bled, and died, it was God saying to the world, 'I love you.'
Billy Graham
http://www.longecity...390#entry639598
Deuteronomy 23:1: "No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Durn, god, I don't know about you, god. But that shit just doesn't sound like a decent way for you to be behaving, dear god. God? Well, god or however we're supposed to address You. Your Youness. Your Highly High & All Alliness. Uppidy Upness, I mean, gosh god we don't even know how You would like us to address Your Youness since You won't say. Do You like our names? Do you, You? ...
But really it's a fucking insult to intelligence that the god-chase expressed so awfully in this thread continues ad nauseum. Let's kick god the hell out forever. Bye-bye god, fare thee well, god, and do come back if you ever feel like helping to relieve any of the suffering of your creatures. Meanwhile, we sinful and hated little humans will stick to science and technology to solve our problems and heal our wounds
http://www.longecity...390#entry639618
A world without God would be a far better, friendlier and happier place....Kick out god, and nothing changes (since god doesn't exist anyway) and everything changes for the better for us: one example: the centuries-old burden of hatred amongst people fighting over whose god is coolest disappears. Bye, god. Maybe we can all relax and breathe again without all these god people shouting over our higher sensibilities....Kick out god, and we still adhere to the laws of the land and the moral codes taught to us by our societies and parents....
End the belief in god, and we could learn to have greater respect for planet Earth and all of its beautiful life. Human life is special and cool, sure, but we ain't the center of the shit. If all humans disappear, then all beliefs in god disappear right alongside them.....
Bye-bye, God. Good riddance, and have fun being as non-existent as you've always been.
http://www.longecity...420#entry639870
Meanwhile, SH has friends who died from HIV. I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your losses. Honestly, sincerely. In the same breath I'd also like to know if you believe as your Christian colleagues believe that god sent AIDS as a punishment not only to homosexuals, but god also is punishing the society that "permits" (haha such weird language) homosexuals?...
Dear Shadowhawk: did god send AIDS to punish people?

http://www.longecity...420#entry639876
SH's ztian god doesn't even rank in the top ten of today's most interesting and hip gods. According to godchecker.com (pst: and that's using their patented GodRank™ technology) the angry old fart-knocker ztian god ain't even in the top 15....
Check out Raven! ...
All Shall Worship Now The Great God Raven! Way more interesting...
http://www.longecity...420#entry639909
Haha! Awesome! I still think this thread could use a big ole slobby happy innocent healthy hug. Imagine that! A hug full of haters! Hugging each other with stoic grit and determination hoping the entire "intimate" experience doesn't break down into godlessly heathenistically awful burning iches of sin. And Hell! To which love ALL shall burn in HELL for ETERNITY. Exclamation point.... And here now behold, in the ancient halls of this newborn tech art of internet forums we have the mighty Shadowhawk compiling the world's finest arguments and videos for the Cheering of Christianization. Breathtaking! Oh! Finely done, gentlemen, finely done! Give that boy a brandy! Give em a cigar! What great art amongst such heartlessly cruel interlocutors, we clap our hands for you! Cheer! Oh! Shadowhawk! Magnificent! What a treasure that you're compiling all this trash! Kinda like the Walmart of Christianity. Shop here for "Bravery" and turn down this aisle for "Wrath!". Boo-hoo no, not Christmas "Wreaths" but Christian WRATH!....Please entitle your monument to: (large caps, huge red font) Shadowhawk's Journey: From Trash To Wrath. Your first book title! Oh, totally do this, man. Please self-publish all your work for Future Generations. Exclamation points all around!
http://www.longecity...420#entry640001
Right on, man. And trust me I think we're all being as gentle with this writer as possible. Well. Hmm. Maybe sometimes lines get crossed over the thread -- smeared, scratched -- and it's hard to see out the window (so to speak since you're an artist). Disrespectful and rude, awful language we've tapped here amongst us. Is this healthy? Tapping little violence. Venting religious animosity on public forums -- is this good for society or not? I don't know. Maybe more information, more education, more quiet, reflective moments alone with these massively complex issues -- god, the universe, human ethics and behavior, historical tragedies -- maybe all would be healthier faced alone than internet shouting. Maybe some venting is healthy. Or are we just poking deep wounds?
http://www.longecity...420#entry640005
....That's why I asked if you know how to read. Do you? All of your dumping is your dumping, it's yours, it's right here. The rest of us -- why are we bothering, we're bored & curious (?) -- we are merely doing our best to respond to this load of words, videos, deep drama you've spat down upon all....You have not given us evidence for god. You've given us other people's ideas concerning why they believe god exists....In this thread and others you've repeatedly copied and pasted many logical fallacies, their names and descriptions. Again, do you know how to read what you're pasting?...It's true that arguments are not evidence for God's existence. God appearing to us (eg, like someone wrote above, a big moon face or something) that might work.
....If god exists, god will show itself. Is it any of your business? Have you ever considered that maybe god won't give you the evidence you need because god doesn't want you to know? Since god isn't saying one way or another, the possibility that god exists but doesn't want you to know is equal to saying god exists and your sources contain evidence....Yes, you keep saying this over and over. What evidence did you, Shadowhawk, bring forth that has not been addressed. Please don't throw up more links & videos & fallacies & forum rule violations. State is simple, plain language your evidence that god exists that we have not already answered here in this thread....

Yes, we tell you that you're stupid because you possibly are very stupid. Stop being stupid, and we'll stop telling you you're being stupid....Or (and I doubt you're reading) a lighter way to think about you: if you don't like having your beliefs laughed then you shouldn't have such funny beliefs

.Did you read all these books? Again: can you read all these books?

Also up there you've quoted loads of my writing. Some of it's really silly and meant to be silly. Because I'm a human being, and human beings love absurdity. We're messy, we're human, and I guess if god made me then god made me sometimes silly, too....Unless Satan Did It! And you still have not answered: do you believe in Satan, Shadowhawk? I think that's a relevant, on topic question given the ponderous nature of this collection of stuff here in this thread.
http://www.longecity...420#entry640514
And god says to me: You! sthira! Don't there thumbing through the lonely planet guide down there on the lonely planet-- You Shall Partake In Humanity's Genetically Passed And Passed Ancient Curiosity With Humanity's Stupid People. The town idiot: what will he say next? -- he shall please you. But you must feed him, so eat, Shadowhawk so you may keep the drama unfurling. (although, eh, god we're read this book so many times before, we're bored, show us something new, dear god, so we may reaffirm our belief in you. (some of us kinda beg for that from you, god) "
http://www.longecity...420#entry640525

FORUM RULES
http://www.longecity...390#entry639554

TO POST 453

[Deep Thought]

Christian cultural enrichment:
https://www.amnesty....ngui-2013-12-19

A christian kindly teaching a helpless african about the struggles of christ:
http://multimedia.ek...Re_1037242m.jpg

Here let my combat boots educate you in the suffering of christ:
http://multimedia.ek...Re_1037246m.jpg



Reasonable bonus:


Who says reason and faith stand in opposition?

Edited by Deep Thought, 07 February 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[Deep Thought]

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554

"IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY???" topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
STHIRA, AD HOMININE ATTACKS, NAME CALLING, OFF TOPIC DERAILMENTS, VIOLATION OF THE FORUM RULES, LOGICAL FALLACIES.

Creepy like hell.

[shadowhawk]

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554

"IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY???" topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
STHIRA, AD HOMININE ATTACKS, NAME CALLING, OFF TOPIC DERAILMENTS, VIOLATION OF THE FORUM RULES, LOGICAL FALLACIES.

Creepy like hell.

You said it.

[Deep Thought]

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554

"IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY???" topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
STHIRA, AD HOMININE ATTACKS, NAME CALLING, OFF TOPIC DERAILMENTS, VIOLATION OF THE FORUM RULES, LOGICAL FALLACIES.

Creepy like hell.

You said it.

You're an enigma.

[N.T.M.]

I talked about my idea for a Pythagorean paradox a while ago but never followed up on it, so I thought I might as well do it now while I have a few minutes.

Imagine a right triangle with two equal legs (45-45-90) and the hypotenuse conforming to the border of the line y = x. Now get the vertex at the 90 degree angle and reflect it across a line that runs parallel to y = x and intersects the midpoints of the two legs. Can you picture it? All right, now observe that even though the outline of the shape--originally a triangle--has changed, the perimeter is still the same, and so is the net length of all constituent lines. Also note that the area inside the shape has decreased by half. Okay, now repeat this process with all the subtriangles an infinite number of times. If you couldn't tell already, the shape's area with each division could be modeled by a function that produces an asymptote, which means that the triangle's sides, a, b, and c, produce the equation a + b = c.

And that's the paradox. Fun, huh?

[johnross47]

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554

"IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY???" topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
STHIRA, AD HOMININE ATTACKS, NAME CALLING, OFF TOPIC DERAILMENTS, VIOLATION OF THE FORUM RULES, LOGICAL FALLACIES.

Creepy like hell.

You said it.

You're an enigma.

He's away beyond enigma and well into the totally terrifying, but for the fact that I live many thousands of miles away. This topic, of course, cannot be derailed since it is defined as having no rails. What is derailed is SH's cunning plan to attract people with the false promise of free speech and then surprise them with a proof of god ambush. Sh himself is obviously totally off his rails too and, if he has any friends, might benefit from them taking him to the nearest place of respite for the emotionally challenged.

[johnross47]

Here's a real derailment


https://www.google.c...iw=1214&bih=757

Edited by johnross47, 11 February 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[shadowhawk]

“IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY??” topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
JOHNROSS 47, AN EXAMPLE OF ATHEISTS DERAILING THE TOPIC NAME CALLING, VIOLATION OF FORUM RULES and LOGICAL FALLACIES. And this is just one topic. http://www.longecity...390#entry639554

"IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR CHRISTIANITY???" topic
http://www.longecity...ty/#entry614862
STHIRA, AD HOMININE ATTACKS, NAME CALLING, OFF TOPIC DERAILMENTS, VIOLATION OF THE FORUM RULES, LOGICAL FALLACIES.

Creepy like hell.

You said it.

You're an enigma.

He's away beyond enigma and well into the totally terrifying, but for the fact that I live many thousands of miles away. This topic, of course, cannot be derailed since it is defined as having no rails. What is derailed is SH's cunning plan to attract people with the false promise of free speech and then surprise them with a proof of god ambush. Sh himself is obviously totally off his rails too and, if he has any friends, might benefit from them taking him to the nearest place of respite for the emotionally challenged.

Ad Hominem
1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.
http://www.nizkor.or...ad-hominem.html

Ad Hominem Tu Quoque
This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that a person's claim is false because 1) it is inconsistent with something else a person has said or 2) what a person says is inconsistent with her actions
1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
3. Therefore X is false.
http://www.nizkor.or...-tu-quoque.html

Appeal to Fear
1. Y is presented (a claim that is intended to produce fear).
2. Therefore claim X is true (a claim that is generally, but need not be, related to Y in some manner). http://www.nizkor.or...al-to-fear.html

Bandwagon
1. Person P is pressured by his/her peers or threatened with rejection.
2. Therefore person P's claim X is false.
http://www.nizkor.or.../bandwagon.html

Composition
1. Individual F things have characteristics A, B, C, etc.
2. Therefore, the (whole) class of F things has characteristics A, B, C, etc.
http://www.nizkor.or...omposition.html

Personal Attack
A personal attack is committed when a person substitutes abusive remarks for evidence when attacking another person's claim or claims. This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person making the claim and not the claim itself. The truth value of a claim is independent of the person making the claim. After all, no matter how repugnant an individual might be, he or she can still make true claims.
http://www.nizkor.or...nal-attack.html

NAME CALLING FALLACY;
A calls B pejorative names as if this adds something to the discussion. This logical fallacy often is followed by further Ad-Hominem attacks.

POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK FALLACY
This fallacy can take several forms:
1. A, who is black faults B for being black while ignoring As own color. Hypocrisy.
2. A, who is black calls B, who is not black, “black.” Projection of ones own faults.

OH POOR ME, FALLACY;
“I have to put up with him.” “She caused me to do it.”
Blaming someone else for your own responsible actions and choices.

THE GARBAGE TRUCK FALLACY
1. A. Dumps a pile of issues all at once, so big that it would take B. writing a book to answer them all.
2. A. claims they win the issue when B. can’t or wont answer them.

Sometimes there are so many issues that is impossible to answer them all.
Sometimes there is a general charge about everything. Example, the Bible is unscientific.

I think I have heard this all before.
http://www.longecity...120#entry641551

Edited by shadowhawk, 11 February 2014 - 10:25 PM.

[johnross47]

I'm sure you'll hear it lots more. Look in a mirror to see the problem. Look at your psychotic teenager raving and shouting compared to the rational and properly expressed contributions of everybody else. Look at your monstrous screeds of quotes and dishonest summaries etc. and you'll see the problem. Nobody else flames in huge red capitals and constantly lists long diatribes of pasted crap about irrelevant logical fallacies. Grow up if you want to be respected. Arguing with teenagers is rarely edifying and that is exactly how you are behaving.

[shadowhawk]

I'm sure you'll hear it lots more. Look in a mirror to see the problem. Look at your psychotic teenager raving and shouting compared to the rational and properly expressed contributions of everybody else. Look at your monstrous screeds of quotes and dishonest summaries etc. and you'll see the problem. Nobody else flames in huge red capitals and constantly lists long diatribes of pasted crap about irrelevant logical fallacies. Grow up if you want to be respected. Arguing with teenagers is rarely edifying and that is exactly how you are behaving.

Are you the teenager I am arguing with?
Shall I list the Logical Fallacies here? No use arguing with a teen.
http://www.longecity...120#entry641551

http://www.longecity...120#entry642815

Edited by shadowhawk, 13 February 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[johnross47]

Is that really the best response you can come up with? Misreading what I said? There are no logical fallacies here; there is simply the opinion of one of the many people you disgust.

[shadowhawk]

Is that really the best response you can come up with? Misreading what I said? There are no logical fallacies here; there is simply the opinion of one of the many people you disgust.

I agree with you but what you said is what I responded to. Thank you for njo logical fallacies this time.

[johnross47]

You responded to some weird fantasy version of what I said. Please try to act like a grownup. Virtually every time you have accused me of a logical fallacy you have been wrong. The same applies to all the other people you abuse.

[shadowhawk]

johnross47: You responded to some weird fantasy version of what I said. Please try to act like a grownup. Virtually every time you have accused me of a logical fallacy you have been wrong. The same applies to all the other people you abuse.

Am I wrong?

Argument by Emotive Language
(also known as: loaded words, loaded language, euphemisms)
Description: Substituting facts and evidence with words that stir up emotion, with the attempt to manipulate others into accepting the truth of the argument.
Logical Form:
Person A claims that X is true.
Person A uses very powerful and emotive language in the claim.
Therefore, X is true.

Poisoning the Well
(also known as: discrediting, smear tactics)
Description: To commit a preemptive ad hominem attack against an opponent. That is, to prime the audience with adverse information about the opponent from the start, in an attempt to make your claim more acceptable, or discount the credibility of your opponent’s claim.
Logical Form:
Adverse information (be it true or false) about person 1 is presented.
Therefore, the claim(s) of person 1 will be false.

Prejudicial Language
(also known as: variant imagization)
Description: Loaded or emotive terms used to attach value or moral goodness to believing the proposition.
Logical Form:
Claim A is made using loaded or emotive terms.
Therefore, claim A is true.

Wishful Thinking
(also known as: appeal to consequences [form of])
Description: When the desire for something to be true is used in place of/or as evidence for the truthfulness of the claim. Wishful thinking, more as a cognitive bias than a logical fallacy, can also cause one to evaluate evidence very differently based on the desired outcome.
Logical Form:
I wish X were true.
Therefore, it is true.


Appeal to Ridicule
reductio ad ridiculum
(also known as: appeal to mockery, the horse laugh)
Description: Presenting the argument in such a way that makes the argument look ridiculous, usually by misrepresenting the argument or the use of exaggeration.
Logical Form:
Person 1 claims that X is true.
Person 2 makes X look ridiculous, by misrepresenting X.
Therefore, X is false.

Scapegoating
Description: Unfairly blaming an unpopular person or group of people for a problem, or a person or group that is an easy target for such blame.
Logical Form:
Nobody likes or cares about X.
Therefore, X is to blame for Y.