46 replies to this topic

[tolerant]

Why do you say it's useless dissolved (I know next to zero about chemistry). If it is still active I would use it IN or IM. If it actually works for depression/anxiety.

By the way, what is the usual time-frame from the time they test it on depressed people to being available to the public??

Edited by tolerant, 16 June 2014 - 02:09 AM.

[Cluzig]

These are indeed interesting compounds however I'd suggest people try Magnesium Taurate before getting involved with these drugs, ketamine and all known drugs that act upon NMDA WILL harm the body for example DXM, Ketamine analogues and all those RS chemicals. Magnesium Taurate is a natural NMDA receptor antagonist but of course only one study exists on it when I myself and thus friends of mine have discovered it can potentially wipeout depression and certainly take anxiety/insomnia away in as little as 3 days, cramps and muscle tension are a certainty.
Taurine activates and hits the glycine receptor (GLYX-13.....coincidence??? i think not) whilst non-oxidated magnesium can completely reverse life long depressions in certain individuals. Magnesium oxide and the 3 forms prescribed in the Netherlands are all 'wrong' in that they cause glutamate levels to rise and agitate a susceptible person. Anyone who finds MSG and/or calcium supplements agitating are very likely to benefit and also those suffering from caffeine allergy - another story altogether and totally ignored and/or hidden by the medical and pharm industries, it disgusts me. 

All the best, John

[FW900]

These are indeed interesting compounds however I'd suggest people try Magnesium Taurate before getting involved with these drugs, ketamine and all known drugs that act upon NMDA WILL harm the body for example DXM, Ketamine analogues and all those RS chemicals. Magnesium Taurate is a natural NMDA receptor antagonist but of course only one study exists on it when I myself and thus friends of mine have discovered it can potentially wipeout depression and certainly take anxiety/insomnia away in as little as 3 days, cramps and muscle tension are a certainty.

 

The benefit comes from the harm. The antidepressant effect of these stronger NMDA receptor antagonists is attributed the massive increase of BDNF in response to NMDA receptor antagonism.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24103211

[Cluzig]

Thanks for the link, I'd only argue what is causing the drop of in BDNF in the first place, depression itself, genetics or a substance that's entering the body daily in a large percentage of the population. I'd probably go for the latter but certainly reserve drugs like and stemming for ketamine for severe cases.
A lot of modern psychiatric illnesses on the rise weren't noted by ancient cultures whom were more sophisticated than we'd give credit to and whilst its pure speculation to say they didn't have the knowledge or terminology back then they certainly didn't have coffee house style crack dens which caused a huge rise in mental illness when trade made caffeine containing compounds easily available. 

I'm not suggesting caffeine is behind this all but in susceptible people and those with allergy to it almost certainly as it washes out magnesium which the following abstract doesn't touch upon: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16542786

If heavy drug use (drugs will always be needed to reverse other drugs) or terribly unfortunate genetics are the/to blame then by all means go for it, NMDA and AMPA are what I'd regard as the future in anti-depressants. A great example is when they found out pre-treating people with tramadol before they received ketamine for depression upped the success rate enormously, Why? no mention of it in the paper but I think i know why. Tramadol has also got NMDA receptor antagonism something which is missed by the papers writer, it may prevent the 'shock to the system' of the body suddenly getting a huge dose of NMDA receptor antagonist therefore leaving the brain more open and the persons mind less susceptible to the bad effects. See http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3336144/

Meeting the 30th of this month to discuss it with someone whom could do something with information contained not only in my post but this thread. I think caffeine is to blame in a lot of cases but people and doctors don't want to know or when they do show interest they do a huge U-turn at the last moment, I can elevate my CPK levels and did/do so for bloodtests to piss them off simply by drinking coffee in moderate quantities 1 hour before a bloodtest it has them baffled yet it goes on and on as they will not listen but its fine as I know. Coffee/colas are the worst with tea/chocolate not illiciting the responses anywhere near anaphylaxis - no idea why. In other areas I can only hamper best guesses but still am delighted these compounds are finally on the way. A woman wrote a book on caffeine allergy but went way too far in blaming and ranting about her mistreatment a paper of hers lies here and if her info is true then caffeine is certainly not beneficial towards longevity. http://www.doctoryou.../caffeine2.html The spanish have a case report from 2003 which is very interesting can't find it now.

Edited by Cluzig, 20 June 2014 - 11:47 PM.

[Cluzig]

I re-read this thread and would just like to add these potential drugs of which the first looks (esketamine by Johnson & Johnson) the most promising next to the already mentioned Naurex pair - new research is available on the the Naurex site about its 2 new potential drugs GLYX-33 & NAUR-1074  https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Esketamine and for the self medicators and RS chem advocates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoxetamine
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoxyketamine & for a more fully comprehensive quick list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arylcyclohexylamine#List_of_arylcyclohexylamines.

I would still try get ahold of tramadol 100-300mg per day and use Magnesium taurate 3x120-130mg (depends on brand) a day after meals, tramadol is not for everyone (epilepsy or even a history in family steer clear) as its workings are due to peoples enzymes namely CYD2D6 working well, certain races are extensive metabolizers like in the Gaza strip its preferred to heroin (maybe price and availability is an issue) due to them being extensive metabolizers same with people of North African descent. Its the easiest and possibly cheapest combination to get a hold of with Tramadol being very well studied & safe, pre 2010 it had 3 known workings now it has 9 known actions on the human brain - that is what lead me here and to all my other 5 hypotheses which i have difficulty stringing together its all so intertwined.

I hope people are aware that Grunenthal claim to have first synthesised tramadol in the late 1970s but you do realise its found in nature. right? http://pipeline.cora...ral_product.php I've used Tramadol with an astonishingly quick and rapid recovery from deeprest depressions but it must be used and treated with upmost respect - good pdf is "Examining the use of tramadol Hydrochloride as an anti depressant" - no mention of NMDA anatagonism in that one either as they think its soley SNRI/opioid activity but its not. It would have burned out long ago if that were the case
Now again we have an example of the West depriving an entire continent of a natural painkiller in the worlds poorest continent whom are often stuck to using old and potentially more toxic drugs - same happens in Asia, even anti-histamines used there baffle me let alone 'harder' drugs causing Agranulocytosis. Plantations of the tree could have been harvested for to next to nothing to provide Africa with a cheap painkiller that is NATURAL. Tramadol is so complex I cannot believe people think let alone consider that man could have invented it first, There are plnety of examples like this i.e. an Indian flower used for centuries but the FDA won a too and fro case all due to their corruption and power. Whilst the Indians had been using it at least 2,000 years. 

 

Edited by Cluzig, 21 June 2014 - 01:28 AM.

[tolerant]

Is this a legitimate source of GLYX?

http://www.tocris.co...42#.U7JXgfmSyLF

 

And is the price of $179/mg normal for this drug? I understand it would have to be given IV/IM.

Edited by tolerant, 01 July 2014 - 06:43 AM.

[typ3z3r0]

Yes, it is, however the dose needed for GLYX-13 makes that financially unviable. This trial used 1 mg/kg for the minimum dose. If you weigh 75 kg, it'll cost you $13 425 for one dose...

Edited by typ3z3r0, 01 July 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[typ3z3r0]

You could perhaps buy this instead, but they don't have stock at the moment: http://teamtlr.com/g...x-tlr-1024.html

[FeelsNumbMan]

This teamltr seems to have a shitload of these new chemical products that aren't widely available to the public. The downside is that it's pretty expensive and we cannot really verify the authenticity. I'm also not really willing to be a guinea pig because money's a problem for me :/

 

I'm interested in NRX-1074 more than GLYX-13 though, because I read that GLYX-13 isn't orally active and all.

[typ3z3r0]

Yeah, everyone is of course more interested in NRX-1074. Unfortunately its structure's unavailable at this time though, so for now that's really the only viable (or close to viable for some people) drug, unless someone or a company has CERC-301 or EVT 101 synthesised, which both look pretty promising too. 

[tolerant]

typ3z3r0, thanks for the links. I am concerned that the teamtlr.com product is a totally unknown quantity. I am also concerned that it is a glutamatergic AGONIST. All the other glutamatergic drugs are ANTAGONISTS. I have other concerns about their product, which I can share in private. I am definitely interested in any potential group buy of CERC-301 and EVT 101.. Just count me in. Do we have Phase 1b results for these drug, like we do for NSI-189? And do we have their chemical structure?

Edited by tolerant, 02 July 2014 - 10:20 AM.

[typ3z3r0]

GLYX-13 and NRX-1074 are both NMDA receptor glycine site functional partial agonists, so the analogue TrueLife Research are selling should be an agonist! Haha. CERC-301 and EVT however are both orally active antagonists of the NMDA receptor subunit 2B. There's been a pilot trial conducted on CERC-301 and there's this phase II trial which appears to still be recruiting. For EVT 101, this trial has been conducted. I can't find the results in a journal, however there's this article. The phase 2 study was terminated unfortunately:

 

 

The decision to terminate this Phase II study was triggered by difficulties to recruit patients under the current study protocol, resulting in the possibility of inconclusive results. EVT101 was generally well tolerated in healthy volunteers and patients enrolled so far. Difficulties in conducting this Phase II study in treatment resistant depression, the need to sharpen the toxicology profile and a potential requirement for an altered dosage scheme lead to an overall delay in the program. Based on this, the parties concluded to terminate the clinical development.

 

I don't what's going to happen with the drug now. Anyway, the structures for both can be seen in my posts on the previous page.

[Cluzig]

Caffeine wreaks havoc with glycine (http://jp.physoc.org...87/16/4063.full) let alone NMDA- the strongest known drug to do so. taurine is found in abundance in every single energy drink on the market yet nothing hints at it being good for mental/physical energy let alone alertness in the medical literature.
I found magnesium taurate a natural NMDA receptor antagonist (zinc glycinate also) to be extremely activating more so than a lot of drugs. Something is being hidden from us and when i see posts quoting around $13,000+ for a single treatment I get very suspicious of what is going on here. I've had a meeting with a top biologically based shrink and he is looking into this topic especially caffeine allergy and NMDA based anti-depressants. I left him some references to glycine but its a lot to take on and i'm not sure if it would be wise to take on the industries involved. 

The DSM and medical textbooks, blood tests are based off a small group over 50 years ago, written and influenced by pharm companies and its one huge money racket. Yet i take an interest and do some digging and in 1 month pieced together a little part of a jigsaw from having a good scientific brain and a background with many disorders/diagnosis (experience/wisdom comes to no one by chance and certainly beats study any day or anywhere) which were all incorrect bar one. A deficiency caused and wreaked havoc in me let alone wracked the brains of over 10-15 internists, doctors, shrinks etc etc and lead to untold amounts of various next to useless prescriptions with only off-label ones working.

I think i need to lay out something in front of people here before they go spending a half a years salary on getting treatment on new drugs which although very promising and possibly the future for many types of depression may be unnecessary. I was going to stop my research and digging and keep it under wraps as its very fatiguing and I'm not getting anything out of it except perhaps karma. 

This is all like an English historian basing his entire thesis, facts and knowledge from only reading English history full of propaganda and bias over the ~1,000 year on/off war and political troubles with Ireland. He should be reading both histories and them assuming and going for the best theory. 

Does anyone here know one single person whom went into remission from a SSRI? Serotonin is supposed to be involved in all depressions yet the drugs have a remission rate of lower than 15%.

NMDA and glycine receptors hold a key or as i like to call them are the brains reboot switches. No point rebooting if a virus is still on the hard drive. People insist on finding the quickest possible solution when the quickest fix always results in a leak or will not eventually hold, The longer term fix success rate is more than 90% - these new drugs may help but they are not the key here.

Edited by Cluzig, 06 July 2014 - 12:47 AM.

[Metagene]

The link you posted states "Caffeine is a weak competitive antagonist of glycine receptors". I don't think that qualifies as wreaking havoc.
It's worth noting caffeine is potentially neuroprotective in various disease models http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/24525422/
It may be true there isn't any conclusive evidence to justify the inclusion of taurine into most popular energy drinks a few brands are decidedly taurine free.

[Cluzig]

That was the wrong link - I've so many studies booked marked I'm up to my eyeballs (ADHD doesn't help), posting before sleeping isn't helping I can link various studies but its not really the point or the cure. Anyhow I'm not saying that caffeine is behind or the cause of illnesses but it may mimic just about any serious psychiatric disorder (bipolar, schizophrenic, ADHD in particular, dysthymia is probably ongoing intoxication and deficiency states sometimes alleviated by good diet or lifestyle) or certainly worsen them in people whom are allergic to the substance, or those whom are highly intolerant to it yet continue to intake it daily. It accumulates and at toxic levels caffeine is capable of anything in the brain which is a well known fact noted in countless abstracts and studies. Wipes out NMDA functions, glycine may as well be hooked up to strychnine pump etc etc.

Caffeine is probably like red wine in that its good for health in small intakes for MOST people and yes I've seen many studies showing its benefits, neuroprotective which I don't disagree with. I often thought that certain races are basically meant to have an intake of certain foods and even drugs as China/India are heavy consumers as it naturally occurs there yet don't seem to show the rates of illness/allergy we do in the West but then give them alcohol and.......problems arise. Lack of studies and modern medical infrastructure may explain it but i have my doubts, being of celtic origin we have many genetic illnesses only seen in the Northern Europe hemisphere (rosacea, haemochromatosis couple of others) they don't know where and why and how but they do know what worsens them and its almost always dietary. 
 
It could be likened it to the problems certain races have with alcohol once the white man brought them across the oceans (common cold wiping out half the native South Americans once Spanish/Portuguese settlers arrived) and rates of alcoholism are huge mostly due to abnormal rapid/extensive metabolism in races that used other drugs native to the land as their way of recreation or for shamanic purposes (Aborigines, Asian's (seem to lack enzymes/ADH to break down alcohols), Native American's all have abnormal enzymes with high rates of alcoholism).

The form caffeine is consumed in makes a big difference, (in order of lack of reaction)  green tea, black tea, dark to almost pure chocolates, milk chocolate not exhibiting any sort of big allergic response (except causing elevations in CK/CPK) even in allergic individuals however coffee, all colas or other caffeinated soft drinks and certainly energy drinks somehow manage to instantly promote anaphylaxis, I'll find the study its spanish 2003. It is an insecticide or poison after all which is why every animal on the planet turns its nose up at it with a few insects having evolved to be able to eat it but studies have shown they appear as ill too if they go overboard or are fooled under laboratory conditions which was noted as far back as 1894 when they originally suspected bipolar disorder was due to some sort of toxic brain syndrome, heavy metals, toxins all suspected then German doctors began to narrow it down to caffeine - true or not i have no idea but why caffeine is not accepted as being able to cause an allergy is simply ridiculous. The antidote to anaphylaxis is adrenaline, caffeine releases adrenaline so it masks its own allergy. Most people(all the docs, internists and shrinks bar a small % also do this and get my point) look at themselves and say "Oh i drink 8 cups of coffee a day and I'm fine" - yes you are fine because you are not allergic.

Anyway the drugs being proposed here are very promising and I'm very confident NMDA, AMPA (again caffeine has a big impact on AMPA) and glycine receptor agonists will work for incurable/TRD depressions. They still are not finding out the root of the issue which may be as simple as a deficiency of naturally occurring NMDA receptor antagonists which are striped of the body by various drugs commonly used today. I had an 18 year stint of TRD depression which i was lucky enough to have gotten through thanks to a mineral supplement which then allowed me with a clear mind to go about finding out the hows and whys behind everything. I suggest if people here do get several weeks to months of freedom from that god awful illness that they do likewise to consolidate themselves from never re-entering its far reaching claws. I'm here to try and help, not to crusade against possible cures. Usually the answers are in the tiniest obscure details or hidden facts. It certainly was in my case but i need to pick and choose my moments more but have very severe ADHD on the hyper level which i'll get medicated much to my annoyance next week, I'm well aware i appear as if i'm on the attack but if anything I'm on the attack against fat cats throwing out a drug that will work for $13,000 a treatment, there is no way in hell a drug can cost that much, no way.
 

[protoject]

Lanicemine is available, I need to know why nobody is discussing this and if there are any updates about it. Thanks. Maybe it's because it wasn't as available for people to try before? one of my suppliers suddenly has it on their website now. I was very surprised to see it pop up. 

[protoject]

ANy updates? The supplier just cut the price down. I haven't found any information at all about oral dosing. It's all intravenous and I'm not about that. But if it works orally I'm about it and will get it and report back.