108 replies to this topic

[platypus]

This might be unrelated but after my 1st bottle of c60oo I recently noticed that both of my big toenails had healed themselves. The toenails had been damaged/deformed a bit at the sides due to small surgical operations done ~25 years ago to treat ingrown toenails. Now it seems like both toes are growing smooth-looking toenails while the older growth is much more grooved and deformed at the sides. I wonder if c60oo had anything to do with this. 

[thedarkbobo]

26y old here.

It might be related, I had a bulge on my thumb of left hand on the spot where fingernail goes inside finger for a 3-4 years. It was damage from car door that was shut with my finger inside.

I know it healed quiet a bit just recently, since I was sad about it few months ago. There is much much smaller bulge in my case, there is still noticeable difference in skin color.

It could be correlated with olive oil consumption, which I began earlier than C60-OO and noticed healing at the bottom of my feet, where I had around 2-3 0,3cm wide holes that didn't really heal much. Then olive oil and stinging nettle (silica) and bam it nearly healed.

 

On the other hand I have around 4 cm scar from vermiform appendix operation that I had around 10 years ago that did not heal yet nor started.

 

But again I have another scar, from when I was very young (lets say 8-10?) and kicked stairs with my right leg. Injure was circle like in tibia bone, around 1cm wide,at  around half the width of this bone. It was rather dark lately, now it seems to whiten from outside and inside. I've taken few photos before C60-00 like month ago, but it was with my phone so its rather baaad. I will make photos next week with proper camera and see if it heals more during next weeks.

Edited by thedarkbobo, 30 April 2014 - 02:42 PM.

[niner]

I can't really see a way for c60 to affect most scars, where a repair would require extensive tissue remodeling.  I'm not saying that it couldn't possibly happen, just that I can't see a mechanism.  Platypus' case is kind of intriguing, and makes me wonder if it perhaps involved a different form of healing involving stem cells that were not quite able to get in gear and differentiate properly.  "Stemness" is enforced by the cell employing glycolysis as its metabolic energy source.  This has a side effect of protecting the stem cell from mitochondrial ROS.  In order for differentiation to occur, the stem cell needs to switch to oxidative phosphorylation. (OXPHOS, in biochemistry parlance.  Why it's all caps is anyone's guess, since it's not an acronym.)  Turnbuckle and I have kicked around the speculation that c60oo is rescuing failed differentiations by assisting in the shift to OXPHOS.  It certainly seems to be the case that c60oo improves OXPHOS efficiency, by a presently unknown mechanism.  At any rate, the stem cell differentiation rescue idea would provide an explanation for some of the effects that people have reported.

 

On another topic, I reported a while back that my breathing had improved subsequent to using c60.  Over the past year or so, I'd been using some homebrew c60oo that was stored in an extremely half-assed manner. (sealed with a cork, rather than something that would actually exclude oxygen, and also in a large bottle that contained ever more air as I used it)  I noticed the effectiveness of that batch falling off over time, and set about to synthesize a really good batch that would be carefully stored.  Not wanting to wait for all the parts to arrive and synthesis to finish, I also bought a 24 mg bottle of c60oo from carbon60oliveoil.com.  I downed the entire bottle inside of a day.  Three weeks later, I went to my doctor for one of my frequent checkups, and my doctor listened to my chest.  He was kind of surprised, and said "Wow!, this is the best your breathing has ever sounded!"  I told him I must be living right.  At some point I'm going to have to come clean and tell him that I'm synthesizing nanotech drugs in my home lab and dosing myself with them...  That should be interesting.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle and I have kicked around the speculation that c60oo is rescuing failed differentiations by assisting in the shift to OXPHOS.  It certainly seems to be the case that c60oo improves OXPHOS efficiency, by a presently unknown mechanism.  At any rate, the stem cell differentiation rescue idea would provide an explanation for some of the effects that people have reported.

 

 

 

One potential explanation, discussed some time ago, is that C60 is acting as an inhibitor of uncoupling proteins--specifically UCP2, which is found in large amounts in cells capable of proliferation, like stem cells and cancer cells, but not in cells that don't divide, such as neurons. It seems to be a trigger. Shut it down and mitochondria mature and begin operating aerobically, signaling the cell to mature into a somatic cell. Thus if you could inhibit UCP2, even  for a short time, you could cause both stem cells and cancer cells to become somatic cells. Now UCP2 is structurally a hollow tube long enough to penetrate the mitochondrial outer membrane. I haven't been able to find the dimensions anywhere, but if the axial opening is small enough (around .7 nm), C60 could act as a cork and plug it up.

 

Side and top view of UCP2.

[mikeinnaples]

At some point I'm going to have to come clean and tell him that I'm synthesizing nanotech drugs in my home lab and dosing myself with them...  That should be interesting.

 

Yeah, I am in the same boat and for some reason, I find it amusing.

[markymark]

 

At some point I'm going to have to come clean and tell him that I'm synthesizing nanotech drugs in my home lab and dosing myself with them...  That should be interesting.

 

Yeah, I am in the same boat and for some reason, I find it amusing.

 

 

funny enough, I am an MD: Internal Medicine, 49 yrs old.

I made a vow14 months ago not to suggest c60 to a patient or friend before I have survived 12 months of taking it. Which is the case now. Lots of friends are clients or patients at the same time. I gave it to my mother (two 45 ml bottles) and her 90 years old brother (only one bottle), my uncle.

 

The only way I can do it, i.e., suggesting or "using" it for my patients, will be by shared decision making and giving the information about c60 only to selected clients/patients, who are supplement experts by themselves without being MDs. Moreover, I believe in the citizen-scientist concept. Nobody must be an MD to use science in order to improve ones biochemistry.

 

But originally, I wanted to share another observation:

I have the impression that for me PQQ 20 mg/day leverages the effects of C60 on endurance a lot. I refer to my 11,6 Km running time, which improved so much about one year ago after starting c60. Then achilles tenon problems made me stop running once week for approx. 6 months. When I resumed running, I never made it to reach the best score on this ever-the-same-route of 11,6 Km again. I took PQQ 20 mg at the time when I made these 3-4 mins improvements back then. So I finally  started with PQQ about 7 days ago and it looks like that I get faster again and feel easyer during running.... Could be a premature posting, however.

 

Well, If someone wants to try the same (add PQQ to the regimen), let us know. Needless to say that I am not a PQQ-vendor. My PQQ is from LEF.

The only confounder is that I started R-lipoic acid 300 mg/day at the same time.

 

best

MM

Edited by markymark, 01 May 2014 - 07:03 PM.

[xEva]

One potential explanation, discussed some time ago, is that C60 is acting as an inhibitor of uncoupling proteins--specifically UCP2,

That's odd, given that by dissipating proton gradient across the mitochondrial membrane UCPs are known to diminish ROS production. So, as far as ROS go, c60oo and UCPs are on the same side, except an overdose of exogenous UCPs can kill a cell while an overdose of c60oo seems harmless (except that Anthony who took c60oo 'by the bucket' is not posting anymore... I wonder why)

Interesting that UCPs are known to go up in fasting, cold and physical stress and, other than in an unnatural overdose, are considered 'good guys'. Why would you want to inhibit their action?

[Turnbuckle]

 

One potential explanation, discussed some time ago, is that C60 is acting as an inhibitor of uncoupling proteins--specifically UCP2,

That's odd, given that by dissipating proton gradient across the mitochondrial membrane UCPs are known to diminish ROS production. So, as far as ROS go, c60oo and UCPs are on the same side, except an overdose of exogenous UCPs can kill a cell while an overdose of c60oo seems harmless (except that Anthony who took c60oo 'by the bucket' is not posting anymore... I wonder why)

Interesting that UCPs are known to go up in fasting, cold and physical stress and, other than in an unnatural overdose, are considered 'good guys'. Why would you want to inhibit their action?

 

 

This UCP idea is just speculation. That said, if you're going to inhibit UCPs to stimulate stem cells or battle cancer, you should not do it all time time. For one thing cells will probably generate more of this protein to compensate, and the increased ROS will shorten lifespan, not increase it. If the mechanism is indeed UCP inhibition, then it was lucky that the rats in the original study got C60 once every two weeks and not continuously.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 May 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[xEva]

This UCP idea is just speculation. That said, if you're going to inhibit UCPs to stimulate stem cells or battle cancer, you should not do it all time time. For one thing cells will probably generate more of this protein to compensate, and the increased ROS will shorten lifespan, not increase it. If the mechanism is indeed UCP inhibition, then it was lucky that the rats in the original study got C60 once every two weeks and not continuously.

I think even greater speculation is that UCPs "stimulate stem cells" -?

In my understanding, UCPs improve metabolic efficiency. All eukaryotic UCPs (even plants have them) are activated by superoxide and aldehyde products of lipid peroxidation. In other words, UCPs are largely produced to combat high levels of ROS.

Given that the prevailing hypothesis for c60oo is that is it a super-antioxidant, it could inhibit UCPs production rather then inhibit UCPs action by plugging them up and.. what? increase ROS output as a result? It makes no sense.

[Turnbuckle]

 

This UCP idea is just speculation. That said, if you're going to inhibit UCPs to stimulate stem cells or battle cancer, you should not do it all time time. For one thing cells will probably generate more of this protein to compensate, and the increased ROS will shorten lifespan, not increase it. If the mechanism is indeed UCP inhibition, then it was lucky that the rats in the original study got C60 once every two weeks and not continuously.

... In other words, UCPs are largely produced to combat high levels of ROS...

 

 

 

 

This is half of what I am saying, and why I am saying it would not be good to depress UCP2 all the time, but only occasionally. For example, it's known that mutant rats bred to be UCP2 deficient don't live as long. 

 

UCP2 has another use for the organism, and that is decoupling the mitochondria to keep stem cells from maturing into somatic cells, and this is why stem cells have a lot of UCP2--

 

Human pluripotent stem cells (hPSCs) rely heavily on glycolysis for energy metabolism, and because their mitochondria appear poorly developed, hPSCs have been assumed to be incapable of using oxidative phosphorylation (OxPhos). In this issue, Zhang et al (2011) demonstrate that hPSCs actually possess functional OxPhos machinery, but that the mitochondrial protein UCP2 decouples OxPhos from glycolysis. The study further suggests that regulation of glucose metabolism by UCP2 facilitates hPSC pluripotency and controls hPSC differentiation.

 

 

Human pluripotent stem cells decouple respiration from energy production

 

 

 

 

 

[xEva]

This is half of what I am saying, and why I am saying it would not be good to depress UCP2 all the time, but only occasionally. For example, it's known that mutant rats bred to be UCP2 deficient don't live as long. 
 
UCP2 has another use for the organism, and that is decoupling the mitochondria to keep stem cells from maturing into somatic cells, and this is why stem cells have a lot of UCP2--

 

Human pluripotent stem cells (hPSCs) rely heavily on glycolysis for energy metabolism, and because their mitochondria appear poorly developed, hPSCs have been assumed to be incapable of using oxidative phosphorylation (OxPhos). In this issue, Zhang et al (2011) demonstrate that hPSCs actually possess functional OxPhos machinery, but that the mitochondrial protein UCP2 decouples OxPhos from glycolysis. The study further suggests that regulation of glucose metabolism by UCP2 facilitates hPSC pluripotency and controls hPSC differentiation.
 
 
Human pluripotent stem cells decouple respiration from energy production

 

 
That UCP2 was in control of stem cells differentiation did not look certain back in 2011. This was acknowledged further down in the same editorial from which you quoted:

 
"Zhang et al (2011) also showed that ectopic expression of UCP2 prevented hPSC differentiation, but UCP2 knockdown failed to impair self-renewal or induce differentiation, suggesting that other mechanisms exist to suppress OxPhos or coordinate OxPhos with differentiation in hPSCs."

 

The 2014 follow up by another group suggests that it is the cell's metabolic state what controls UCP2 rather than the other way around. In other words, even though the link between UCP2 and the metabolic state/pluripotency exists, it does not mean that UCP2 is the controlling influence here. Rather it seems one of the important players. Here is what they say:

 

"UCP2 at the protein level seem to be present only in fast proliferating cells which are metabolically supported by aerobic glycolysis such as activated lymphocytes, macrophages, hematopoietic stem cells and cancer cells. These cells have in common that they change their metabolisms aiming to increase their proliferative potential and the ability to synthesize new molecules on demand'.

"UCP2 is clearly essential for the metabolism of highly proliferating cells and therefore necessarily down-regulated with changes in metabolism, as we have shown in the present work. UCP2 function may thereby be a protection of proliferating cells in case of substrate shortages."

 

But even if we suppose, for the sake of the argument, that UCP2 is in control of a cell's metabolic state/pluripotency, how would c60oo influence UCP2 production in your model?

Edited by xEva, 02 May 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

But even if we suppose, for the sake of the argument, that UCP2 is in control of a cell's metabolic state/pluripotency, how would c60oo influence UCP2 production in your model?

 

 

I suggested the mechanism in post #94 above. It's not a matter of production, it's inhibition.

[thedarkbobo]

I would like to ask/speculate about its addictive/drug-like properties. I noticed increased happiness for around 2 hours after oral dose. I noticed the same with my cat(it's a she), which got only dose once, and had dilated pupils and behaved like "what did I just eat?" - kind of scared, which followed by unnatural behavior (can't really explain it) and later more purring/cuddling as if she thanked for it.

Is it possible that more oxygen/better functioning muscles are the reason, or rather it's a direct influence of more oxygen on brain, or maybe it is also inhibitor of some pathway or something else which we would not like it to do ?

 

Edited by thedarkbobo, 06 May 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[niner]

I would like to ask/speculate about its addictive/drug-like properties. I noticed increased happiness for around 2 hours after oral dose. I noticed the same with my cat(it's a she), which got only dose once, and had dilated pupils and behaved like "what did I just eat?" - kind of scared, which followed by unnatural behavior (can't really explain it) and later more purring/cuddling as if she thanked for it.
Is it possible that more oxygen/better functioning muscles are the reason, or rather it's a direct influence of more oxygen on brain, or maybe it is also inhibitor of some pathway or something else which we would not like it to do ?

This sounds like a placebo response to me. As for the cat, I'm not sure what was going on there. People have given c60oo to cats, dogs, and various other animals and never reported a response like that.

[thedarkbobo]

 

I would like to ask/speculate about its addictive/drug-like properties. I noticed increased happiness for around 2 hours after oral dose. I noticed the same with my cat(it's a she), which got only dose once, and had dilated pupils and behaved like "what did I just eat?" - kind of scared, which followed by unnatural behavior (can't really explain it) and later more purring/cuddling as if she thanked for it.
Is it possible that more oxygen/better functioning muscles are the reason, or rather it's a direct influence of more oxygen on brain, or maybe it is also inhibitor of some pathway or something else which we would not like it to do ?

This sounds like a placebo response to me. As for the cat, I'm not sure what was going on there. People have given c60oo to cats, dogs, and various other animals and never reported a response like that.

 

 

Maybe, it's a "drama queen" report . As for the cat - dilation might be from being scared/confused.

By the way I noticed better breathing after taking it 2 hours before swimming, but that was mentioned by few people already.
 

[mait]

I would like to share my peculiar and somewhat strange experience I noticed, when I changed my dosing regimen from once a week 20mg C60 to 5 times a week 5mg C60 dosing. When I was dosing 20mg once in a week I always got distinct rush of energy both in physical terms and in mental stamina few hours after taking the dose that persisted the following day. Repeatedly I had very normal sleep induction at the night of the day I took my C60 dosage but I often woke up 2-3 hours before usual wake-up time on next day.  Furthermore those effects persisted over 6 months, while I was using once a week dosing almost every instance I took my dose.

 

To leverage the effects of C60 more effectively over the week I switched to above described 5mg 5 times a week dosing regimen with success as it has helped me to stay energetic throughout the working week and especially so on days I have slept 5-6 hours on previous night (usually I need 8-9 hours of sleep to feel fully rested). In addition to previously described changes I also changed my dosing regimen in experimental manner: namely I made special mix of filtered c60 with chlorophyll rich chlorella powder to be taken on fifth dosing day of the week. The rationale of this was G.V. Andrievsky’s posts on this forum in which he argued for that chlorophyll in EVOO helps in forming hydrated C60. My naive hypothesis/expectation I had was the possible extra benefit from having one dosage rich in water soluble C60 form in addition to dosages rich in hydrophobic C60 and EVOO aggregates.   

 

Although it is only one data point and may be hard to replicate because placebo and individual factors for me the 5^th dose of C60 mixed with chlorophyll containing chlorella has been very different compared to usual 5mg C60 in EVOO dosage being closer to 20mg C60 in EVOO dosage in terms of subjectively felt effects. So at least for me chlorophyll seems to potentiate the effects of C60 considerably.

Edited by mait, 06 May 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[Kenbar]

Been taking it for two or so years now. No ill effects yet. The skin on my body appears to be aging normally. Wrinkles are appearing, along with age spots, on my arms, as would be expected at around 59 years old (my face looks good, but that is likely the result of Retin A cream I use daily). Beyond that I have nothing to report. 

 

I am thinking about adding Metformin to my list of gambles. Time is not on my side so much. Science will probably discover a miracle "get young and live forever" drug a day after I die...lol. Just my luck.

Edited by Kenbar, 21 January 2016 - 07:18 PM.

[stefan_001]

Been taking it for two or so years now. No ill effects yet. The skin on my body appears to be aging normally. Wrinkles are appearing, along with age spots, on my arms, as would be expected at around 59 years old (my face looks good, but that is likely the result of Retin A cream I use daily). Beyond that I have nothing to report.

I am thinking about adding Metformin to my list of gambles. Time is not on my side so much. Science will probably discover a miracle "get young and live forever" drug a day after I die...lol. Just my luck.

Hello thank you for sharing your experience. That you see no benefits in skin seems to somewhat contradict other users. Perhaps there is a relation to dosing?
Stefan

Edited by stefan_001, 21 January 2016 - 09:14 PM.

[Kenbar]

 

Been taking it for two or so years now. No ill effects yet. The skin on my body appears to be aging normally. Wrinkles are appearing, along with age spots, on my arms, as would be expected at around 59 years old (my face looks good, but that is likely the result of Retin A cream I use daily). Beyond that I have nothing to report.

I am thinking about adding Metformin to my list of gambles. Time is not on my side so much. Science will probably discover a miracle "get young and live forever" drug a day after I die...lol. Just my luck.

Hello thank you for sharing your experience. That you see no benefits in skin seems to somewhat contradict other users. Perhaps there is a relation to dosing?
Stefan

 

Hi Stefan, yea that could be. I have been taking just a few drops (under my tongue) daily. Not nearly as much as others have been doing. Perhaps the only thing I can say for sure is small daily dosing has done me no harm. And who is to say...my arms might look really bad if not for C60oo. No way to know.