266 replies to this topic

[twinkly]

Should Copper (edit: I initially wrote Magnesium -- sorry for any confusion) not be taken in combination with a multivitamin I take that, among other sources, has Zinc (12 mg, 120% DV) ? Or should they be taken hours apart from one another? A little confused about the supposed incompatibility of these two.

Edited by twinkly, 18 March 2014 - 10:02 PM.

[eon]

if you read the whole thread copper should not be supplemented by anyone.

[eon]

I'm looking into a new milk thistle supplement. I've tried Spring Valley, Bestvite, Dr. Vita and Eclectic Institute. I'm curious what do all these numbers mean: 30 to 70:1 extract. Others are 4:1 concentrated. Another one at 30:1 ratio. What's all these about? Some are "standardized", "concentrated" and "full spectrum".

The Eclectic Institute seemed like a good product per mg per capsule and the price but the silymarin content is only 3-5% which is kinda low compared to other brands. I think I will go with either the Jarrow brand or the NutriGold. I think silymarin content is what I should be looking into not the mg of "milk thistle". Am I right?

Edited by eon, 19 March 2014 - 08:19 AM.

[caruga]

if you read the whole thread copper should not be supplemented by anyone.

I disagree. Copper should not be supplemented by the timid, or people who don't know what they are doing. I've corrected a zinc/copper ratio imbalance in my prostate with copper supplementation with immediately percievable effects.

Taking the title question literally, the only proper answer is: all of them.

Edited by caruga, 21 March 2014 - 12:46 PM.

[finalgates]

caruga what dosages you used?

[eon]

That's good for you. What's the effect? I was just going by what someone here mentioned that there is really no need or benefit with supplemental copper or iron. I get 50% daily value of iron from eating oysters alone so I don't need iron. Are you saying when supplementing with zinc, copper is a good idea to combine it with? I think I read somewhere that supplementing zinc depletes copper which is why it's a good idea to combine both, but I could be mistaking another vitamin or mineral.

if you read the whole thread copper should not be supplemented by anyone.

I disagree. Copper should not be supplemented by the timid, or people who don't know what they are doing. I've corrected a zinc/copper ratio imbalance in my prostate with copper supplementation with immediately percievable effects.

Taking the title question literally, the only proper answer is: all of them.

[eon]

anyone here tried an active folate? Merck is said to own the patent to the active form of folate called metafolin which is licensed to dietary supplement companies. Solgar sells one. A few others sell an active form of folate but not sure if it's the same thing as "metafolin". Anyone here know? Those folic acid at 400mcg I've taken in from multi vits must have been useless. 400mcg of folic acid are also in my methylcobalamin b12. folic acid is not the same as folate from what I understand.

[finalgates]

metafolin is methylfolate .the same.i take 4 mg with 10mg methylb12 .under tongue 20 minutes.

metafolin is methylfolate .the same.i take 4 mg with 10mg methylb12 .under tongue 20 minutes.

[eon]

how many pills are you taking considering most folate supplement are either 400mcg or 800 mcg, some are 1000mcg. The methylb12 sublingually is only 1000mcg. I would like to try the 5000mcg soon especially because sometime this sublingual thing does not always stay under the tongue, sometimes I swallow some of it so maybe I'm not getting all the 1000mcg. If I try 5000mcg sublingual I will definitely get more then.

[caruga]

That's good for you. What's the effect? I was just going by what someone here mentioned that there is really no need or benefit with supplemental copper or iron. I get 50% daily value of iron from eating oysters alone so I don't need iron. Are you saying when supplementing with zinc, copper is a good idea to combine it with? I think I read somewhere that supplementing zinc depletes copper which is why it's a good idea to combine both, but I could be mistaking another vitamin or mineral.

if you read the whole thread copper should not be supplemented by anyone.

I disagree. Copper should not be supplemented by the timid, or people who don't know what they are doing. I've corrected a zinc/copper ratio imbalance in my prostate with copper supplementation with immediately percievable effects.

Taking the title question literally, the only proper answer is: all of them.

The effect of chewing up a 2mg copper tablet and rinsing it down with water was a pinching feeling in my prostate and arousal.

My situation is unique however because of a therapy i'm doing (which I don't wish to talk about at this moment).

Copper is a hard supplement for me to recommend--you really have to recommend it to yourself, if you can. Most of the time you'd do yourself a disservice by taking it, as there aren't many excretion pathways for it.

Re: folate: my own personal experience is that 5-mthf (metafolin) is good for penetrating the nervous system and restoring levels there, but folic acid is better for kicking up liver metabolism in a way that 5-mthf somehow bypasses, as if one of the enzymes that deals with folic acid acts as a pacemaker. I can't back this up at this time, though. I emphatically recommend avoiding non-branded 5-mthf and folinate, as they are racemic mixes and their safety is suspect.

I do NOT recommend methylcobalamin sublingual if you have amalgam fillings, as I do believe that they can react to the mercury there. As soon as I switched to taking methylcobalamin suppositories all the negative effects of taking it sublingually ('hot, angry sensation') disappeared. Of course you needn't worry about this if you have no such fillings.

Edited by caruga, 22 March 2014 - 01:33 PM.

[eon]

I have some teeth fillings. Not sure what you meant by the methyl b12 reacting to the mercury there. I do not believe my teeth filling are made from mercury. It is silver. I think the use of mercury has been non existent for some time. Not sure. Considering methyl b12 is sublingually taken how would it be possible for it to even have anything to do with mercury regarding teeth fillings.

Regarding folate; Source Naturals has one called Megafolinic, which is from folinic acid. Is this what I'm looking for? It doesn't say it being the 5 MTHF. Should I be looking for those that say it is 5 MTHF? It converts to methyl folate but not exactly methyl folate yet. Should I stick with what's already methyl folate?

Edited by eon, 23 March 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[blood]

The effect of chewing up a 2mg copper tablet and rinsing it down with water was a pinching feeling in my prostate and arousal.

That sounds a bit... crazy.

Be careful. Copper supplementation has been linked to accelerated cognitive decline (with those consuming a high-fat diet being most vulnerable.)

[blood]

I think silymarin content is what I should be looking into not the mg of "milk thistle". Am I right?

Arguably the best form for supplementation is Indena's milk thistle "phytosome" product, Siliphos, which is milk thistle flavanolignans complexed with lecithin. Siliphos is standardised to silybin.

Info:
http://www.phytosome...ic/siliphos.asp


Products:

Swanson vitamins (this is the product I buy):
http://www.swansonvi...-300-mg-60-caps

LEF's new milk thistle product has some Siliphos in it:
http://au.iherb.com/...-Softgels/55280

Edited by blood, 23 March 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[brainstorm11]

If I'm not mistaken, vitamin K2 isn't something that we miss from a diet that is high in animal protein and vegetables.

For vegetarians consider a few things:

- Iron - plenty of sources, but vegetarians have a nonheme source, which is not as bioavailable.
- Zinc
- Vitamin B12 - this is obvious for vegetarians. Almost no good sources that don't include meat

[eon]

My vitamin D3 is almost out so I was reading something about the D2 form. I read that it's just as effective but the metabolism of each appears to be different so I was just curious.

[eon]

I just tried the active form of folate. 400mcg daily (though I think some people have used several times the amount of this). I think I felt great a few hours after I took it. Not sure if it was a boost of what I was already taking as well. I was already taking 5 of the 8 B vitamins (b1, b3, b5, b6, and b12 all active forms, methylcobalamin, nicotinic acid, etc.). This was my first time taking a folate (b9) supplement. I think it is what was missing to create a synergy? Although my sublingual b12 had folic acid, I doubt it was as effective as the activated folate. So now I am taking 6 of the 8 b vitamins. Should I look into the other 2 left (b2 riboflavin and b7 biotin)? I just read up on riboflavin about how good it is for sight, something about the cornea. I don't have the worst eye sight but sure could use an improvement. I remember renewing my driver's license and was asked to read the letters on the "visual test" and I couldn't see certain letters, it was blurry. Would riboflavin fix this issues or would vitamin A be better at this and if so which form (carotene or retinol)? Should I purchase the active version of riboflavin (riboflavin 5 phosphate)? Could riboflavin fix vision to a point that Lasik eye surgery is not even needed? not that I need it at this point. Would love 20/20 vision though, LOL. From what I understand "blurry vision" has something to do with the cornea.

Should I take all b vitamins at the same time? I usually spread them out throughout the day, some together, some at other times. Example: I take niacin at night before sleep due to the flush as I don't want to have the flush while I am out in public. I should try taking all 8 at once and see for myself, huh?

[blood]

Should I take all b vitamins at the same time?

Swansons has a B complex containing "active" forms of B vitamins including methyl folate:
http://www.swansonvi...ity-60-veg-caps

Regarding eye health, I get the impression (without looking in detail at the research) that lutein and zeaxanthin are the ones to supplement (arguably betacarotene supplements appear to do more harm than good):
http://www.swansonvi...20-mg-120-sgels
http://www.swansonvi...anthin-60-sgels

[eon]

great b complex from swanson, but the niacin is not nicotinic acid. Dosages are rather low (i.e. RDA dosages). B12 methylcobalamin is not sublingual and is only 250 mcg when what I have been taking is 1000 mcg, could even use the 5000 mcg once I am out of the 1000 mcg. Thanks though.

Should I take all b vitamins at the same time?

Swansons has a B complex containing "active" forms of B vitamins including methyl folate:
http://www.swansonvi...ity-60-veg-caps

Regarding eye health, I get the impression (without looking in detail at the research) that lutein and zeaxanthin are the ones to supplement (arguably betacarotene supplements appear to do more harm than good):
http://www.swansonvi...20-mg-120-sgels
http://www.swansonvi...anthin-60-sgels

[blood]

They do have a higher potency "active B" product - it's a bit more expensive, and I'm not sure how much benefit the higher doses are:
http://www.swansonvi...ity-60-veg-caps

I'm not sure it is clear what the best form of B3 is (for supplementation).

Edited by blood, 28 March 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[eon]

not sure if the active folate I had been taking in the past week has anything to do with my slight headache. Maybe this determines it is working? The headache is similar to what a choline supplement headache would give someone but not severe. I doubled my dose from 400 mcg 1x daily to 2x daily split am/pm. I hope this is fine (800mcg daily). I've heard of people using more than this like 4x a day or in the several mg, not mcg.

Edited by eon, 03 April 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[eon]

If you could have just 1 vitamin which one would it be and why? My choice would be vitamin c because it works noticeably at high dosages.

Edited by eon, 06 April 2014 - 03:19 PM.

[eon]

I just started taking the active form of riboflavin. I notice that my urine's color is unusual, it's a bit like yellow with a hint of green (?) like Mountain Dew. Not sure if this is normal. I feel good though. The riboflavin powder is orange in color, maybe this gives the urine such color I described? The brand I bought was from Thorne Research.

[eon]

how much zinc is still ok to take? I take a zinc picolinate 15mg daily, which is 100% daily value. I read of some people taking 4x this amount, 2 pill in a.m. and 2 pill in p.m. That's 60mg daily total at 400% daily value. The Walmart brand of zinc sells a 50mg zinc which I plan on buying when my zinc picolinate runs out.

[blood]

how much zinc is still ok to take? I take a zinc picolinate 15mg daily, which is 100% daily value. I read of some people taking 4x this amount, 2 pill in a.m. and 2 pill in p.m. That's 60mg daily total at 400% daily value. The Walmart brand of zinc sells a 50mg zinc which I plan on buying when my zinc picolinate runs out.

 

Zinc picolinate is a highly bioavailable form of zinc.

 

How is the zinc delivered in the Walmart product?

[AstralStorm]

Often zinc oxide, the cheapest and least bioavailable, zinc sulfate (which is so-so) or in the better stuff, zinc gluconate, zinc citrate or zinc acetate.

Zinc picolinate is very expensive and bulky - little zinc per molecule, need to remember that when calculating dosages.

Zinc glycinate and bisglycinate have slightly higher bioavailability still. (ALBION® chelates is one brand name)

Zinc citrate is the forms babies get when they drink mother's milk.

 

About B12, methyl-B12 is superior, especially if you have one of those uncommon (not exactly rare) folate metabolism disorders.

Quite a few companies make sublingual 1000 ug versions.

 

Have a good read on zinc absorption, it's quite affected by other dietary components: http://jn.nutrition....30/5/1378S.full

Your requirements may vary a lot, depending on those and whether your immune system is activated.

(Say, having a cold or an autoimmune disease, psiorasis for instance.)

Generally up to 20 mg/d of zinc ions is safe and 40 mg/d might be safe, more might cause problems with copper absorption.

There is often no real need to supplement if you eat a varied diet, but a low dose one won't hurt.

Edited by AstralStorm, 02 June 2014 - 08:23 PM.

[eon]

the walmart zinc is gluconate, at 50mg per pill. These seem to be marketed as for "immune system", same with vitamin D3. Zinc is said to be good for growth and the skeletal system, which Taurine is as well, maybe I can drop Taurine and use Zinc solely instead of both.

 

AstralStorm, I didn't know that about the methyl version of b12, regarding its use for folate metabolism disorder. I do take the sublingual methyl b12 (1000mcg). I do have samples of it that is 5000mcg (not sublingual but chewable) which I received as free samples when I purchased something from Pureformulas.. Regarding folate metabolism disorders; I thought the active form of folate is what is required, which I also take.

[blood]

Zinc glycinate and bisglycinate have slightly higher bioavailability still. (ALBION® chelates is one brand name)

  
In this 1987 study, subjects were supplements with various forms of zinc over a 4 week period. Only zinc picolinate produced significant rises in zinc levels in various bodily compartments (red blood cell, hair, urine). Zinc citrate and zinc gluconate were useless:
Comparative absorption of zinc picolinate, zinc citrate and zinc gluconate in humans.

No one appears to have studied the usefulness of zinc glycinate over the long term. There is an abstract of a poster presentation (?) of some seemingly sloppy research where subjects were given a single dose of various forms of zinc. Supposedly a single dose of zinc glycinate (unknown dosage) produced higher serum and red blood cell zinc levels over the 4 hours following supplementation than other delivery forms of zinc. It isn't clear from the wording of the abstract if the differences were statistically significant, and the full research isn't available in medical libraries or online as far as I can tell. The lead researcher is employed by Albion (who markets zinc glycinate as a 'superior' form of zinc, based on this research):
Comparison of Four Commercially Available Zinc Supplements for Performance in a Zinc Tolerance Test

Whether citrate or picolinic acid (or some other substance) is the primary zinc binding ligand in human milk is still a matter of controversy, I think.

Edited by blood, 03 June 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[eon]

Is it time for me to try out some hydrochloric acid supplement? anyone here ever tried it and saw results?

 

I could never get rid of my belly fat and I'm under 160 pounds! I've tried everything to lower cortisol levels (vitamin C, phosphatidyl serine, etc.). My diet is good so is my workouts. Belly fat should have been gone by now. Am I not producing enough hydrochloric acid in my stomach? I would try it eventually considering a bottle is cheap enough. I'm not sure if Poliquin is controversial but there are other sources praising HCL acid's importance.

 

I do take TMG (betaine anhydrous), which is not betaine HCL, so I'm not sure if I'm already taking something with HCL acid, but probably not.

 

http://www.poliquing...ement_Ever.aspx

 

 

Edited by eon, 06 June 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[eon]

I just bought another bottle of zinc picolinate. NOW Foods started selling them. I'm not sure how long ago they started selling them but a few months ago I think I e-mailed them about it. I wasn't sure they were selling them then but they do now. I was using a zinc picolinate from Thorne Research, which has 60 pills with 15mg each for about $8 a bottle. That's expensive per pill per mg. The NOW Foods zinc picolinate I had just bought has 120 capsules with 50mg each for just $6, about the price of a Walmart brand, yet this form of zinc is better. Walmart only sells zinc gluconate. I think it's time for me to e-mail NOW Foods again about making a riboflavin-5-phosphate. The one I currently take is from Thorne Research as well and it's about $10 a bottle.

Edited by eon, 28 June 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[eon]

Just wondering what makes a vitamin/mineral or herbal supplement water or fat soluble? The B vitamin pantothenic acid is water soluble, however, its "active" form, Pantethine, is fat soluble. Pantothenic acid is a powder substance, pantethine is a liquid gel. So generally anything that is powder is more likely water soluble, anything "liquidy", clay-like or gooey (like Alpha GPC or vitamin E) would be fat soluble? How about those herbal supplements that look like tea leaf in a capsule (gingko biloba, etc.), would these be fat soluble since it isn't a powder?

Edited by eon, 02 July 2014 - 08:26 AM.