17 replies to this topic

[PAM2]

Hi all,
the purpose of the topic is to discuss all the pros- and contras of using a combination of the followings (not all the same time!!):

NSI-189
PRL-5-83
C16-Pkr-inh.
Cerebrolysin
ISRIB
Nicotine-Rec agonist
FGL-Epithalon-Ghrelin

Still looking for a new ampakine (currently testing sunifiram with phenylpiracetam), hopefully cx-717, or the newer form.

The basic idea is to use a "core" agent as NSI or Cerebro (to let the hippocampal region grow), and adding to it different pathways activators as Nicotin, stress inhibition etc..

So I would like to open up a topic discussing different combinations of the aformentioned components, right timing and safe doseage (if theorethically it has importance). Collecting infos, and making new ideas can be elicited through more people...

My current stack is:
Sunifiram 2x10 mg
Phenylpiracetam - 2x100 mg
Noopept - 2x 20 mg
Centrophenoxine 2x 800 mg
Citicoline 2x800 mg

I'm completely healthy, regular runner, biker (3x a week at least), currently finishing university (on a highly competitive field).

Actually I've no intention to overboost my organs, and cns, but need some cognitive improvement in the near future, and started feeling some declination in overall cognition (I'm 31 yrs old).

[HappyShoe]

Why not at the same time? =P

 

[formergenius]

• 7,8-DHF
• Isoxazole-9
• Dihexa
• J147
• P021

edit: whoops.. somehow I interpreted it as asking for more of such substances. But that was pertaining to ampakines I see now; my bad.

Edited by formergenius, 10 April 2014 - 09:46 PM.

[PAM2]

Formergen., are u currently using any of those agents?

[HappyShoe]

What is P021 I can't find anything about it on here or anywhere else? Does it go by another name?

[Jeoshua]

Stacking multiple Ampakines is unlikely to be synergistic, just additive. The best ampakine for the price, and easily obtainable, is Sunifiram. It is more potent by weight and effect than any 'racetam, and actually delivers on its promises unlike Noopept. The only downside is that you absolutely must use a scale to measure it, since it is so potent. Like the racetams, it has a sweet spot for dosage, and at around 10-15 mg, it is far too small to eyeball that kind of a dose.

[HappyShoe]

I doubt you'd want to stack multiple ampakines either. I've read that sunifiram is very unpleasant and feels like a forced edgy feeling though. Supposedly Unifiram is a lot better? See post 'Unifiram The Unsung Hero' on the forums.
As far as the racetams, what about coluracetam, I've never seen anyone review it? I have some but I plan on just jumping into my stack when it's ready. Speaking of, I should probably post that here eventually, since mine would qualify for this post. =D

Edited by HappyShoe, 12 April 2014 - 03:09 PM.

[Jeoshua]

Coluracetam has a lot of effects in the brain. It seems to work on many neurotransmitter groups, not just allosteric modulation of the ampakine receptors, such as dopamine, serotonin, and even has effects on High Affinity Choline Uptake. So it's a bit of a jack-of-all-trades, and looks extremely promising. The only thing keeping me from trying it is the price. On a dose-by-dose basis, Coluracetam is the absolute most expensive racetam of them all, not just by weight. The HACU activity does obviate the need for supplemental choline, but even then Sunifiram + CDP-Choline is about a third the price of Coluracetam alone, on a dose-by-dose basis.

That said, I want to try Coluracetam sometime when I have a lot of money to blow.

Unifiram suffers from the same problem, albeit not quite as expensive by dose. I've tried both and, while Unifiram does feel "smoother", I'm not sure the price difference is quite worth it. We're talking about twice as expensive, but not quite twice as potent. It's a really good, smooth ampakine tho.

Sunifiram isn't unpleasant, at all, when you take the right amount. Most of the people saying that they didn't like it, I noticed, had either said that they were using the provided spoons (so had no idea how much they were really taking) or took upwards of 30mg at one time. I've done that with both Sunifiram and Unifiram, and let me tell you, that's too much to take at once, for me. Both of them left me feeling spacy and edgy at that dosage, although Unifiram slightly less so but still quite foggy. Both were still better than taking a megadose of 160mg Noopept (agressive, foggy, cranky, and completely useless at that dosage for me).

The only downside of these extremely potent ampakines is their short half lives, which can of course be gotten around by redosing a few times per day. I find that with Sunifiram and Unifiram, the optimum dosage schedule is every 4 hours, three times in a day. Sleep disruption can also be a problem, but nothing that a little serotonin boosters, 5mg lithium orotate, and/or a melatonin can't fix.

[HappyShoe]

I got 60 doses of 20mg coluracetam sublingual for 60 dollars. =) Gotta find the site, it's in my email somewhere.

Edited by HappyShoe, 12 April 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[HappyShoe]

Actually, it went down to 45$ now, it's at Ceretropic.com

[Jeoshua]

Please do. If legit, that would be the cheapest I've ever seen it.

--

Wow, that was quick. I've never heard of Ceretropic before. Their website looks an awful lot like nootropics depot.
Interesting to note that they've put this stuff in a solution form. And since coluracetam and other organic molecules tend to decompose in aqueous solution, they instead have placed it in a Propylene Glycol and Glycerin solution.

Which means that it's basically able to be used in a vaporizer without any modifications! That's a holy crap moment, for me. Imagine... smoking your ampakines. Fascinating.

Edited by Jeoshua, 12 April 2014 - 06:37 PM.

[formergenius]

Formergen., are u currently using any of those agents?

 

No, alas I'm not. Though I am participating in the 7,8-DHF and Dihexa group buys, so I should be trying those soon-ish.

What is P021 I can't find anything about it on here or anywhere else? Does it go by another name?

http://redd.it/22ldgj

 

I can also confirm that Ceretropic's Colu is legit, cheap, and they have great customer service.

Edited by formergenius, 12 April 2014 - 08:28 PM.

[Azz19]

Please do. If legit, that would be the cheapest I've ever seen it.

--

Wow, that was quick. I've never heard of Ceretropic before. Their website looks an awful lot like nootropics depot.
Interesting to note that they've put this stuff in a solution form. And since coluracetam and other organic molecules tend to decompose in aqueous solution, they instead have placed it in a Propylene Glycol and Glycerin solution.

Which means that it's basically able to be used in a vaporizer without any modifications! That's a holy crap moment, for me. Imagine... smoking your ampakines. Fascinating.

That sounds cool but would it really work in a vaporizer? I read that coluracetam's boiling point is 634.1 °C

[Jeoshua]

It should. The boiling point of Coluracetam is higher than the boiling point of the Propylene Glycol that it has been suspended in. When vaping, you want to vaporize the solvent, not the solute. If the coluracetam boils, it basically kind of burns and definitely loses potency, but if the solvent boils first, it becomes vapor and carries the dissolved materials with it.

The question then becomes: is this this the right dosage to vape? 1/2 a dropper per dose would make that actually very hard to vape, needing to take quite a few hits to equal one dose.

[Azz19]

Makes sense but then why are all the impurities left behind when you distill water or alcohol?
I really want to try this now, I could probably add more coluracetam so that it actually gives a high enough dose. Right?

[Jeoshua]

The reason that distilling works to drop the solute and vaping carries it with it is the absolute heat put into the system. Vaporization doesn't just boil the solvent, it vaporizes it. It instantaneously makes it go from liquid to gas, and at that speed there is no time for the solvent to drop the solute it is carrying.

I suppose you could add more Colu, should you have it. My vape hits like a freight train, and it takes me about 10 minutes of continuous vaping to go through 1 ml. About 0.1 ml should contain an effective dose of whatever you're trying to vape. There is the possibility that one vapes more or the chemical is more potent when vaped, so you would probably want to make that 0.3 ml just to be safe.

What would the effective dosage for Coluracetam be, though? With the inverted u shaped dosage curves for almost all racetams, you would also have to be careful not to vape too much. I've tried vaping sunifiram, and while it seemed to work, it was very easy to take too much and fog my brain out.

Edited by Jeoshua, 13 April 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[Azz19]

So if I add 0.66g to 10ml that should be 20mg pe 0.3ml, correct? It might be cheaper to buy the coluracetam and Propylene Glycol separately.

[HappyShoe]

Anyone have a link to any articles or published studies done on P021 though? I mean the chemical structure is good and all but I'd like to know more *insert star ship troopers ad here* =P