94 replies to this topic

[ChristineH]

Joelcairo, what arrant nonsense! Scientists don't dabble in 'jealousy'; if some do, I'm not one of them. Can you find a single clinical trial on curcumin (apart from effects in the gut) which shows a positive clinical outcome? It cant even be detected in the plasma at doses of less than 8 grams in a bolus. So 8 grams gets it into the plasma; it has other membranes to cross to get into the cells and (hopefully) modulate gene expression.
Unfortunately, the believed benefits of curcumin as supplements have been generated by in vitro studies where bioavailability is not an issue. One simply dispenses a quantity of the pure compound onto cells in petri dishes and observed the results. There is no doubt that impressive effects are observed in this model. Where is the evidence that any of this translates into clinical outcomes?
I rest my case: Curcumin has received an unjustifiably favourable reputation for its alleged clinical benefits. How many seriously ill people on this planet swallow a few hundred or even a few thousands grams daily of curcumin supplements vainly believing that their disease will be impacted? The recent study (July) which science journalists brandished across the media claimed that curcumin was equal to Prozac in treating depression. Even the authors of that paper commented in the Abstract that the results did not reach statistical significance. Is it any wonder that mainstream medicine labels Nutritional Medicine as quackery?

[APBT]

The OP's thread is beginning to veer off-topic............ From Longvida curcumin: http://longvida.com/...nces-and-Links.html

[xEva]

I side with JChief and joelcairo here, even though I have never tried high doses of C, or liposomal anything. But I found taking mere 500 mg regular plain curcumin bid very beneficial, in a subtle way (that supposedly undetectable dosage). Works for me. It would be interesting to try their liposomal forms. Thanks for posting this

[joelcairo]

Can you find a single clinical trial on curcumin (apart from effects in the gut) which shows a positive clinical outcome?

ChristineH, why do you specifically exclude effects in the gut? Is it because you are aware of the clinical trials showing that curcumin does indeed protect against neoplasms and cancer progression in the colon?

BTW here's another clinical trial showing that 6g of curcumin can have a very significant beneficial effect on radiation dermatitis (due to cancer treatment).
http://www.rrjournal...0.1667/RR3255.1

But overall there are hundreds, probably thousands, of studies showing beneficial effects in vivo, not merely in vitro as you state. It's annoying that the supporting clinical trials have not been done yet, but obviously that doesn't constitute evidence that curcumin is ineffective.

[ChristineH]

I don't know where you are finding "hundreds, probably thousands' of in vivo studies on curcumin; no-one else can find them. The beneficial effects occur in the gut because there is just one membrane separating the ingested curcumin from the enterocyte. To get to systemic cells, say in the liver, the curcumin would have to travel from the gut to the enterocyte, to the plasma, around the circulation to the extra-cellular fluid and then through the cellular membrane to the cell. Because the bioavailability of curcumin is so poor, with each membrane it must traverse, a further percentage of the starting material is lost. The free Dose-Escalation study paper shown here describes this in depth. Dose escalation of a curcuminoid formulation. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2068350. Its Abstract quotes: No curcumin was detected in the serum of subjects administered 500, 1,000, 2,000, 4,000, 6,000 or 8,000 mg. Low levels of curcumin were detected in two subjects administered 10,000 or 12,000 mg.

Edited by ChristineH, 23 November 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[hav]

I don't know where you are finding "hundreds, probably thousands' of in vivo studies on curcumin; no-one else can find them.

Here's a pubmed search on Curcumin+"in+vivo" which returns 813 studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....cumin "in vivo"

Granted, a few of them are actually in vitro and only mention the need for further in vivo study, but most of them use live subjects taking it orally and document significant measurable effects. Personally, I think assessing bio-availability in the face of significant measurable effects borders on stupidity. Perhaps under these circumstances, a study that only looks to serum levels to measure bio-availability only proves they are looking in the wrong place and/or measuring the wrong thing at perhaps the wrong time in relation to when the oral dose was administered.

But I agree with you on one point, that there don't seem to be any in vivo studies on liposomal delivery of curcumin demonstrating the same or greater effects compared to standard capsules. I have too confess, I don't know a whole lot about how curcumin is normally handled by the body. Is it like resveratrol, normally absorbed via the portal vein like an MCT and delivered to the liver which tries to metabolize it before sending the left overs into the blood stream?

A quick google search suggests its lipid and water solubility characteristics are similar to resveratrol:

CURCUMIN: Chemical and Technical Assessment

The principal colouring components of curcumin exhibit a keto-enol tautomerism and antioxidative properties. Curcumin is an oil soluble pigment, practically insoluble in water at acidic and neutral pH, soluble in alkali. It is stable at high temperatures and in acids, but unstable in alkaline conditions and in the presence of light.

And this curcumin study in humans in fact detected curcumin in the portal vein and its metabolites in the liver after oral ingestion of normal capsules, albeit at fairly low levels:

Detection of curcumin and its metabolites in hepatic tissue and portal blood of patients following oral administration.

In this pilot trial, we investigated whether oral administration of curcumin results in concentrations of the agent in normal and malignant human liver tissue, which are sufficient to elicit pharmacological activity. In total, 12 patients with hepatic metastases from colorectal cancer received 450-3600 mg of curcumin daily, for 1 week prior to surgery. Levels of curcumin and its metabolites were measured by HPLC in portal and peripheral blood, bile and liver tissue. Curcumin was poorly available, following oral administration, with low nanomolar levels of the parent compound and its glucuronide and sulphate conjugates found in the peripheral or portal circulation. While curcumin was not found in liver tissue, trace levels of products of its metabolic reduction were detected.

So, as with resveratrol, I would expect liposomal curcumin to have increased lipid solubility which would probably send more of it on a completely different path, through the lymphatic system, where it could be delivered to cells before left-overs hit the blood stream via the subclavian veins, upstream from the liver and closer to the brain, around 8 to 12 hours after ingestion. But some of the bodily effects of these significantly different delivery paths could be equally different. In the case of resveratrol, there are significant positive effects observed from normal capsules on the portal vein itself which I would expect to be diminished by liposomal delivery. In the case of curcumin, if a metabolite effect on the liver is responsible for the HDL effect, that too may be diminished. Same for the anti- colon cancer effect. But cognitive effects on the brain may be increased.

Btw, here's a study in aging rats showing curcumin having significant liver effects as well as HDL and cognitive effects in the brain, demonstrating that simple serum measurements to assess bio-availability are probably insufficient:

Curcumin induces ABCA1 expression and apolipoprotein A-I-mediated cholesterol transmembrane in the chronic cerebral hypoperfusion aging rats.

Cerebral hypoperfusion or aging often results in the disturbances of cholesterol and lipoprotein, which have been well depicted as a common pathological status contributing to neurodegenerative diseases such as vascular dementia (VaD) and Alzheimer's dementia (AD). The pathway of the liver X receptor-β (LXR-β)/retinoic X receptor-α (RXR-α)/ABCA1 plays a vital role in lipoprotein metabolism. Curcumin, a kind of phenolic compound, has been widely used. It has been reported that curcumin can reduce the levels of cholesterol in serum, but the underlying mechanisms are poorly understood. In this study, we evaluated the effects of curcumin on the cholesterol level in brain, vascular cognitive impairment and explored whether the mechanisms for those effects are through activating LXR-β/RXR-α and ABCA1 expression and apoA-I. With a Morris water test, we found that curcumin treatment could attenuate cognitive impairment. With HE and Nissl staining, we found that curcumin could significantly ameliorate the abnormal changes of pyramidal neurons. Meanwhile, the expression of LXR-β, RXR-α, ABCA1 and apoA-I mRNA and protein were increased in a dose-dependent manner after curcumin treatment. Interestingly, both serum HDL cholesterol and total cholesterol levels were statistically higher in the curcumin treatment group than those other groups. We conclude that curcumin has the ability to activate permissive LXR-β/RXR-α signaling and thereby modulate ABCA1 and apoA-I-mediated cholesterol transmembrane transportation, which is a new preventive and therapeutic strategy for cerevascular diseases.

Howard

Edited by hav, 23 November 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[joelcairo]

Thank you, hav. For anyone to say that nobody can find in vivo studies of curcumin is beyond absurd. Just learn how to use PubMed or Google Scholar. In the latter, a search for "in vivo" combined with curcumin in the title of the article returns 3,700 results. Throw in "cancer" and you're still over 3,000 results. Obviously far too much to even begin to cite or summarize.

[ChristineH]

Thank you, hav. For anyone to say that nobody can find in vivo studies of curcumin is beyond absurd. Just learn how to use PubMed or Google Scholar. In the latter, a search for "in vivo" combined with curcumin in the title of the article returns 3,700 results. Throw in "cancer" and you're still over 3,000 results. Obviously far too much to even begin to cite or summarize.

Now narrow down your search to those studies which are 'clinical trials', remove those for gastrointestinal outcomes and higher than typical doses and you will a completely different result. An 'In vivo' study may simply report a biochemical change which may be of no clinical significance. It is the clinical outcomes that determine whether a supplement has an observable clinical effect on an individual.

[blood]

The recent study (July) which science journalists brandished across the media claimed that curcumin was equal to Prozac in treating depression. Even the authors of that paper commented in the Abstract that the results did not reach statistical significance. Is it any wonder that mainstream medicine labels Nutritional Medicine as quackery?

That is not a fair characterisation of the curcumin depression study.

The research design consisted of three treatments - 1) prozac, 2) curcumin, and 3) prozac + curcumin.

All treatments were effective against depression, with no significant difference in outcomes across the three groups.

The combined treatment (curcumin + prozac) gave better results than than prozac or curcumin alone. However this didn't reach significance (i.e., the possibility the results occurred by chance is larger than you'd like). That is what the researchers were referring to when they said the results did not reach significance.

The take away messages from the study are:
1) curcumin taken in plausible daily doses (1000 mg) is about as effective as prozac against depression in actual human beings
2) curcumin can be used in conduction with prozac, without any reduction in effectiveness for either substance
3) it is possible, though not certain, that curcumin + prozac together give better results than either treatment alone (further research required to confirm this)

(The study design was problematic - the researchers did not include a control group. But that's another discussion).

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23832433

Phytother Res. 2013 Jul 6. doi: 10.1002/ptr.5025. [Epub ahead of print]

Efficacy and Safety of Curcumin in Major Depressive Disorder: A Randomized Controlled Trial.

Sanmukhani J, Satodia V, Trivedi J, Patel T, Tiwari D, Panchal B, Goel A, Tripathi CB.

Source
Department of Pharmacology, Government Medical College, Bhavnagar, Gujarat, India.

Abstract

Curcumin, an active ingredient of Curcuma longa Linn (Zingiberaceae), has shown potential antidepressant-like activity in animal studies. The objectives of this trial were to compare the efficacy and safety of curcumin with fluoxetine in patients with major depressive disorder (MDD). Herein, 60 patients diagnosed with MDD were randomized in a 1:1:1 ratio for six weeks observer-masked treatment with fluoxetine (20 mg) and curcumin (1000 mg) individually or their combination. The primary efficacy variable was response rates according to Hamilton Depression Rating Scale, 17-item version (HAM-D17 ). The secondary efficacy variable was the mean change in HAM-D17 score after six weeks. We observed that curcumin was well tolerated by all the patients. The proportion of responders as measured by the HAM-D17 scale was higher in the combination group (77.8%) than in the fluoxetine (64.7%) and the curcumin (62.5%) groups; however, these data were not statistically significant (P = 0.58). Interestingly, the mean change in HAM-D17 score at the end of six weeks was comparable in all three groups (P = 0.77). This study provides first clinical evidence that curcumin may be used as an effective and safe modality for treatment in patients with MDD without concurrent suicidal ideation or other psychotic disorders.

Copyright © 2013 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

KEYWORDS:
CNS, antidepressant, clinical trial simulations, curcumin, major depressive disorder

Edited by blood, 24 November 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[blood]

An 'In vivo' study may simply report a biochemical change which may be of no clinical significance. It is the clinical outcomes that determine whether a supplement has an observable clinical effect on an individual.

Some interesting curcumin studies performed on healthy human beings using moderate doses of commercially available curcumin products:

1) 150 mg Theracumin brand curcumin/day acts as an exercise mimetic (Theracumin is a Japanese curcumin product which uses nano-particles of curcumin to improve absorption):

 theracurmin-exercise-mimetic.pdf   281.12KB   2 downloads

Nutr Res. 2012 Oct;32(10):795-9. doi: 10.1016/j.nutres.2012.09.002. Epub 2012 Oct 15.

Curcumin ingestion and exercise training improve vascular endothelial function in postmenopausal women.

Akazawa N, Choi Y, Miyaki A, Tanabe Y, Sugawara J, Ajisaka R, Maeda S.

Source
Graduate School of Comprehensive Human Science, University of Tsukuba, 1-1-1 Tennodai, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan.

Abstract

Vascular endothelial function is declines with aging and is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. Lifestyle modification, particularly aerobic exercise and dietary adjustment, has a favorable effect on vascular aging. Curcumin is a major component of turmeric with known anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidative effects. We investigated the effects of curcumin ingestion and aerobic exercise training on flow-mediated dilation as an indicator endothelial function in postmenopausal women. A total of 32 postmenopausal women were assigned to 3 groups: control, exercise, and curcumin groups. The curcumin group ingested curcumin orally for 8 weeks. The exercise group underwent moderate aerobic exercise training for 8 weeks. Before and after each intervention, flow-mediated dilation was measured. No difference in baseline flow-mediated dilation or other key dependent variables were detected among the groups. Flow-mediated dilation increased significantly and equally in the curcumin and exercise groups, whereas no changes were observed in the control group. Our results indicated that curcumin ingestion and aerobic exercise training can increase flow-mediated dilation in postmenopausal women, suggesting that both can potentially improve the age-related decline in endothelial function.

Copyright © 2012 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

 theracurmin-arterial-compliance.pdf   270.5KB   2 downloads

Effects of curcumin intake and aerobic exercise training on arterial compliance in postmenopausal women

Nobuhiko Akazawaa, Youngju Choib, Asako Miyakia, Yoko Tanabea, Jun Sugawarac, Ryuichi Ajisakab, Seiji Maedab, Corresponding author contact information, E-mail the corresponding author
a Graduate School of Comprehensive Human Science, University of Tsukuba, 1-1-1 Tennodai, Tsukuba, Ibaraki 305-8577, Japan
b Faculty of Health and Sport Sciences, University of Tsukuba, 1-1-1 Tennodai, Tsukuba, Ibaraki 305-8577, Japan
c Human Technology Research Institute, National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology (AIST), 1-1-1 Higashi, Tsukuba, Ibaraki 305-8566, Japan

Abstract

Background
Reduction in arterial compliance with aging increases the risk of cardiovascular disease. Lifestyle modification, particularly aerobic exercise and dietary modification, has a favorable effect on vascular aging. Curcumin, a major component of turmeric, is an anti-inflammatory agent. Therefore, it is plausible to hypothesize that curcumin improves arterial compliance. We investigated the effects of curcumin ingestion alone and in combination with aerobic exercise training on arterial compliance in postmenopausal women.

Methods
A total of 51 postmenopausal women were assigned to 4 groups: placebo, curcumin, exercise and placebo (Ex + placebo), and exercise and curcumin (Ex + curcumin). Curcumin or placebo was ingested orally for 8 weeks. The exercise groups underwent moderate aerobic exercise training for 8 weeks.

Results
Carotid arterial compliance increased significantly in the curcumin, Ex + placebo, and Ex + curcumin groups, whereas no such changes were observed in the placebo control group. The magnitude of increases in carotid arterial compliance was the greatest in the Ex + curcumin group.

Conclusion
We concluded that curcumin ingestion improves carotid arterial compliance and that the combination of curcumin and aerobic exercise training was more efficacious in increasing central arterial compliance than either of these treatments alone in postmenopausal women.

Keywords
Arterial stiffness; Lifestyle modification; Physical activity; Turmeric

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21532153

Biol Pharm Bull. 2011;34(5):660-5.

Innovative preparation of curcumin for improved oral bioavailability.

Sasaki H, Sunagawa Y, Takahashi K, Imaizumi A, Fukuda H, Hashimoto T, Wada H, Katanasaka Y, Kakeya H, Fujita M, Hasegawa K, Morimoto T.

Source
Theravalues Corporation, Tokyo 102–0094, Japan.

Abstract

Curcumin is a polyphenol that is commonly used for its perceived health benefits. However, the absorption efficacy of curcumin is too low to exhibit beneficial effects. We have successfully developed a highly absorptive curcumin dispersed with colloidal nano-particles, and named it THERACURMIN. The absorption efficacy of THERACURMIN was investigated and compared with that of curcumin powder. The area under the blood concentration-time curve (AUC) after the oral administration of THERACURMIN was found to be more than 40-fold higher than that of curcumin powder in rats. Then, healthy human volunteers were administered orally 30 mg of THERACURMIN or curcumin powder. The AUC of THERACURMIN was 27-fold higher than that of curcumin powder. In addition, THERACURMIN exhibited an inhibitory action against alcohol intoxication after drinking in humans, as evidenced by the reduced acetaldehyde concentration of the blood. These findings demonstrate that THERACURMIN shows a much higher bioavailability than currently available preparations. Thus, THERACURMIN may be useful to exert clinical benefits in humans at a lower dosage.

2) Longvida curcumin (80mg/ day curcumin) in healthy middle aged people produces a broad spectrum of seemingly clinically significant, beneficial effects:

 longvida-middle-aged-people.pdf   321.2KB   4 downloads

Nutr J. 2012 Sep 26;11:79. doi: 10.1186/1475-2891-11-79.

Diverse effects of a low dose supplement of lipidated curcumin in healthy middle aged people.

DiSilvestro RA, Joseph E, Zhao S, Bomser J.

Source
Department of Human Nutrition, The Ohio State University, 345 Campbell Hall, 1787 Neil Ave, Columbus, OH 43210-1295, USA. disilvestro.1@osu.edu

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Curcumin extracts of turmeric are proposed to produce health benefits. To date, human intervention studies have focused mainly on people with existing health problems given high doses of poorly absorbed curcumin. The purpose of the current study was to check whether in healthy people, a low dose of a lipidated curcumin extract could alter wellness-related measures.

METHODS:
The present study was conducted in healthy middle aged people (40-60 years old) with a low dose of curcumin (80 mg/day) in a lipidated form expected to have good absorption. Subjects were given either curcumin (N = 19) or placebo (N = 19) for 4 wk. Blood and saliva samples were taken before and after the 4 weeks and analyzed for a variety of blood and saliva measures relevant to health promotion.

RESULTS:
Curcumin, but not placebo, produced the following statistically significant changes: lowering of plasma triglyceride values, lowering of salivary amylase levels, raising of salivary radical scavenging capacities, raising of plasma catalase activities, lowering of plasma beta amyloid protein concentrations, lowering of plasma sICAM readings, increased plasma myeloperoxidase without increased c-reactive protein levels, increased plasma nitric oxide, and decreased plasma alanine amino transferase activities.

CONCLUSION:
Collectively, these results demonstrate that a low dose of a curcumin-lipid preparation can produce a variety of potentially health promoting effects in healthy middle aged people.

PMID: 23013352 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC3518252

Edited by blood, 24 November 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[blood]

Joelcairo, what arrant nonsense! Scientists don't dabble in 'jealousy'; if some do, I'm not one of them.

It's exciting when researchers share their expertise by posting to this forum. However your objections to curcumin in this thread don't necessarily seem to be terribly well grounded. The fact you are selling a competing product is I suppose bound to make some question your motives in "dissing" curcumin. Hence Joelcairo's comment.

You asked if there is a commercially-available supplement which is myrosinase active, so at this point I have to declare a commercial interest because my research over the past few years has enabled me to produce an encapsulated product which yields sulforaphane on ingestion. I wont name the product on this site but you can probably find it by Googling "100% whole broccoli sprout powder".

You have been upfront here, I suppose, about your commercial involvement in developing & marketing a a sulforaphane product.

From your most recent publication:

 Sulforaphane-lab-to-clinic.pdf   209.08KB   7 downloads

Declaration of interest. Christine Houghton is the managing director of Cell-Logic Pty Ltd, a company that manufactures a broccoli sprout ingredient.

Regarding your broccoli sprout product, Enduracell, it looks very interesting, but for me, for the benefits on offer, it is too expensive for regular consumption.
http://www.cell-logi...id=13&Itemid=27
http://www.enduracell.com

[ChristineH]

A lot of the posts above are for enhanced curcumin supplements; all of my comments relate to native curcumin which has a bioavailability of ~ 1%. As a result, we are not necessarily comparing 'apples to apples'.

It's unfortunate that so many of the posts above have become defensive of curcumin - aren't we simply evaluating the evidence? For those who are genuinely interested in looking at the broad challenges of using polyphenolic compounds (curcumin, resveratrol, EGCG and numerous others) as nutraceutical supplements, this very good review by Lynne Howells is worth reading. The full 31-page review paper is free online - published by Nature. Table 5: "Bioavailability if curcumin in humans following oral administration" on page 7 summarises useful data.

[joelcairo]

So you're now saying that taking enhanced-absorption forms of curcumin might be beneficial? That certainly seems likely to me, especially for certain conditions such as cancer, Alzheimer's, or rheumatoid arthritis. I'm not as sure a normal healthy person would want to take higher levels of this sort of thing. In any case, as I have said, scientific investigation must be the ultimate arbiter.

[ChristineH]

Any form, enhanced or native will only produce a clinical response if the quantity required to modulate gene expression reaches the appropriate intracellular concentration. This is what the Howells paper is all about and quite specifically how little of an oral dose appears in plasma and tissues. You will see that a dose of 3,600 mg over 7 days reached only nanomolar levels (we need at least micromolar) in plasma and was not detected in liver cells.

In conditions such as cancer, it is quite unlikely that polyphenols (including curcumin) ever reach high enough concentration to do anything useful outside the gut. I am not referring to prevention of cancer but to therapeutic effects where activation of epigenetic mechanisms is more likely to be required. Doses for epigenetic effects is often many-fold higher than those required to inihibit inflammation and other preventive processes. We dont yet have a way to achieve this using any practical dose or dose form. Read the studies on bioavailability of polyphenols in general and you will see why it seems likely that any clinical responses observed after ingestion of the polyphenols is occurring by a variety of mechanisms within the gut and not within systemic cells.

So, instead of firing inappropriate shots at me about 'professional jealousy' and ' conflict of interest' whilst leaping in to defend a mere chemical compound, why not read Howell's paper and then comment on why you think Howells is wrong and you are right?

Edited by ChristineH, 25 November 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[joelcairo]

Not that I agree with your assessment anyway, but who's to say epigenetics is the only mechanism involved in curcumin's effects? Nobody here is promoting curcumin as a monotherapy against cancer. Anti-inflammatory effects alone could provide significant benefits against cancer and many other conditions. Plus there is direct cytotoxicity against cancer cells, inhibition of cancer-promoting signaling pathways, and so on.

[ChristineH]

Not that I agree with your assessment anyway, but who's to say epigenetics is the only mechanism involved in curcumin's effects? Nobody here is promoting curcumin as a monotherapy against cancer. Anti-inflammatory effects alone could provide significant benefits against cancer and many other conditions. Plus there is direct cytotoxicity against cancer cells, inhibition of cancer-promoting signaling pathways, and so on.

"direct cytotoxicity against cancer cells, inhibition of cancer-promoting signaling pathways" - but only demonstrated in vitro. This is the very point I have been continuing to make.

[joelcairo]

By their very nature, those activities are usually demonstrated in vitro, whereas their consequences such as tumor growth, metastasis and angiogenesis are usually what are studied in vivo. As you probably know.

Anyway, I believe this is the Howells paper you were referring to? Quite an interesting read. I haven't finished it yet, but I did make a note of the passage below:

Predicting the physiological relevance of in vitro cancer preventive activities of phytochemicals
http://www.researchg...51dfe53921b.pdf

"Despite the low bioavailability of curcumin, there are examples in animal studies of its biological activity at sites distant from the locus of absorption, where levels are expected to be inefficacious based upon the results of in vitro studies... Oral curcumin also led to complete suppression of tumour NF-kappaB activation in an orthotopic mouse model of pancreatic cancer. Anti-cancer activity has also been reported at a number of other sites distant from the gastrointestinal tract, including breast, prostate, lung and liver."

[joelcairo]

P.S. If you follow the above link from longecity.org, it takes you to an intermediate page where I'm not sure you can see the full text. However if you copy the link target into your clipboard and past in into the browser URL bar, the PDF itself comes up, so that's the workaround.

[YOLF]

I've found putting C in a fiber drink and just drinking a little here and there all day to work wonders. The C makes a great sweetener this way too. The fiber shake tastes great as opposed to the other stuff.

[timar]

Sweetener? Whatever you put in your drink, it is certainly not pure ascorbic acid, which tastes - suprise! - acidic and not sweet at all.

[YOLF]

Have you tried it? It's not a taste analog to a sugar and does taste citrus like, but it is sweet to my tongue and tastes like every other C supplement I've taken. It's a definite component of taste.

[timar]

Yes, sure, pure crystalline L-acorbic acid, but I hardly notice anything but acidity. Even if it had a hint of sweetness to it, which I can't taste, you would need quite a lot of it to actually sweeten your drink. I wouldn't want to take more than a gram a day though.

[YOLF]

I put about 5g in 1 liter and drink it over the course of 4-5 days along with some other water solubles. I'm using Vitacost brand and I don't see any other ingredients on the website, so I'll have to look later, but it doesn't taste any different than any other ascorbic acid tablet or capsul that I've tasted. I realize however that if used as a regular sweetener it might cause problems with iron retention and somesuch.

[fighter]

Hey guys, and JChief, is the TABLESPOON dosage cited accurate? Tablespoon meaning what? 15 mL? 15 grams? Can you guys qualify and verify? I'm scared of overdosing in Curcumin, it's quite a potent blood thinner... Thank you so much for all your help

[longevitynow]

Is anyone doing this? I'd like to hear some results, positive or negative.

[caruga]

Any form, enhanced or native will only produce a clinical response if the quantity required to modulate gene expression reaches the appropriate intracellular concentration.

And therein lies the faulty premise.

"Despite the low bioavailability of curcumin, there are examples in animal studies of its biological activity at sites distant from the locus of absorption, where levels are expected to be inefficacious based upon the results of in vitro studies... Oral curcumin also led to complete suppression of tumour NF-kappaB activation in an orthotopic mouse model of pancreatic cancer. Anti-cancer activity has also been reported at a number of other sites distant from the gastrointestinal tract, including breast, prostate, lung and liver."

Of course. The body is cyclical, and changes in the gut can immediately be felt elsewhere.

[JChief]

It is typically impossible for the home manufacturer to validate that they have created liposomes. However, we're fortunate this guy had access to a biological research lab and have used their microscopes to confirm liposome creation. 

 

http://qualityliposomalc.com/ (you can actually make your own without an ultrasonic cleaner)

[YOLF]

What about just dissolving in water and drinking? Will this increase the amount absorbed similar to nutrients in soft drinks?

[fighter]

It is typically impossible for the home manufacturer to validate that they have created liposomes. However, we're fortunate this guy had access to a biological research lab and have used their microscopes to confirm liposome creation. 

 

http://qualityliposomalc.com/ (you can actually make your own without an ultrasonic cleaner)

 

JChief, there's ethyl alcohol in that recipe. Can the isopropyl rubbing alcohol 70% product in most pharmacies be used, simply adjust the strength accordingly?? Are those the same? Vodka is too expensive and defeats the purpose.

 

Also how much per serving of C is that recipe equivalent to? Best of health to you

[YOLF]

 

It is typically impossible for the home manufacturer to validate that they have created liposomes. However, we're fortunate this guy had access to a biological research lab and have used their microscopes to confirm liposome creation. 

 

http://qualityliposomalc.com/ (you can actually make your own without an ultrasonic cleaner)

 

JChief, there's ethyl alcohol in that recipe. Can the isopropyl rubbing alcohol 70% product in most pharmacies be used, simply adjust the strength accordingly?? Are those the same? Vodka is too expensive and defeats the purpose.

 

Also how much per serving of C is that recipe equivalent to? Best of health to you

 

Please don't use isopropyl... it definitely won't make you live longer! It shouldn't cost too much for ethanol (drinking alcohol such as what is in beer). There are highly concentrated alcohols like this available in licor stores. Just ask around.