274 replies to this topic

[niner]

 

The HealthWyze article above contains a mix of wrong, dubious, and good advice.   I certainly agree that Lugol's should not be ingested.  Chemically, that's like drinking bleach.

 

If you dilute a few drops in water, it's more like drinking water from the tap. If you can taste the chlorine in tap water, for instance, then it has at least 5 mg/L. 

 

But iodine isn't chlorine. Chlorine's electronegativity is between that of oxygen and nitrogen, while iodine's is similiar to elements with antioxidant properties. Looking at a list of elements sorted by electronegativities, the following group is bunched together--

 

Iodine—2.66

Xenon—2.6

Sulfur—2.58

Carbon—2.55

Selenium—2.55

Gold—2.54

 

 

To which I replied:

 

That's a good point, Turnbuckle.  While iodine is electronically analogous to the other halogens, it does have a lower electronegativity, and engages in a wide range of reactions.  Molecular iodine is corrosive and can cause burns when it contacts tissues in high concentration, but the dose makes the poison, and a low concentration is probably fine.  The Aceves paper talks about moderate concentrations of I2 in water, like 0.05%.  (500mg/l)   (I'm not sure how they get that, as it exceeds the solubility of I2 in water.  There's probably some iodide formation involved.)   Lugol's doesn't actually have a ton of I2 in it, since the combination of iodide and I2 produces triiodide ions.  Maybe they disproportionate back into I- and I2 in vivo?  At any rate, Aceves et al. is calling for people with certain pathologies to use 3mg/day of I2, "under the care of a physician".  Give it a shot and see how it goes.  I'm still concerned about all those people on high dose iodine protocols that seem to develop thyroid problems.

 

But this never seemed to fully add up, with Iodine, a known caustic thing, being the same as Xenon, a nominally inert gas.  It finally dawned on me that electronegativity wasn't the right way to look at this.  Electronegativity is a measure of an atom's tendency to attract electron density from an atom that it's bonded to.  That doesn't take into account the driving force of the atom obtaining a closed shell electron configuration.  Instead we should look at Electron Affinity, the energy obtained when the atom acquires an electron to form a negative ion.   In this case, Iodine is the fourth highest on the periodic table, exceeded only by Cl, F, and Br. (in that order)   Although I2 isn't chlorine, it's pretty reactive stuff.  It also reacts with, for example, amines and olefins, both of which would be found in a living organism.  Somewhere amidst all this reactivity, there is something beneficial happening, according to Aceves et al., who summarize evidence for beneficial effects from moderate doses of I2.   I don't know how one is supposed to determine which of the various forms of iodine are optimal, what with all the pseudoscience surrounding it, and the various adverse event reports like posts #212 and 213.  Go slow with it.

[vtrader]

Funny thing is that some of these people on youtube who support the idea of taking lugol iodine at large doses, don't really look the highly energetic, focused types. They way they talk comes as very low energy muted.They of them look really tired like they have not slept for a long time.

 

Just a casual observation with out any context.

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

But this never seemed to fully add up, with Iodine, a known caustic thing, being the same as Xenon, a nominally inert gas....Instead we should look at Electron Affinity...

 

 

They both have a reputation as antioxidants, iodine as I pointed out above, and here below--

 

In conclusion, we suggest that iodide acts as a primitive antioxidant and apoptosis-inductor with a presumed anti-tumoral and anti-atherosclerotic activity. Studies of molecular evolution of primitive antioxidants might provide the basis for further research into “new” active substances against these pathologies. 

 

http://iodineresearc...ants_iodine.doc

 

 

And xenon, in spite of its reputation as a noble gas, also exhibits antioxidant activity--

 

Antistress and Antioxidant Effect of Xenon

 

O2 enhances free radical oxidation and activation of antioxidant protection enzymes in the tissue of liver. Xe in Xe/O2 group prevents these processes and the activity of antioxidant protection enzymes does not differ from the control group. The obtained results allow to suggest that gas mixture with xenon in regimen of adaptation possesses antistress and antioxidant action.

 

http://istina.msu.ru...tions/10347460/

 

 

As for electron affinity, iodine is right up there with fluorine and chlorine, but so are gold, sulfur and selenium, so electron affinity doesn't group elements with antioxidant properties, while electronegativity does.

[niner]

 

 

But this never seemed to fully add up, with Iodine, a known caustic thing, being the same as Xenon, a nominally inert gas....Instead we should look at Electron Affinity...

 

They both have a reputation as antioxidants, iodine as I pointed out above, and here below--

 

In conclusion, we suggest that iodide acts as a primitive antioxidant and apoptosis-inductor with a presumed anti-tumoral and anti-atherosclerotic activity. Studies of molecular evolution of primitive antioxidants might provide the basis for further research into “new” active substances against these pathologies. 

 

http://iodineresearc...ants_iodine.doc

 

 

And xenon, in spite of its reputation as a noble gas, also exhibits antioxidant activity--

 

Antistress and Antioxidant Effect of Xenon

 

O2 enhances free radical oxidation and activation of antioxidant protection enzymes in the tissue of liver. Xe in Xe/O2 group prevents these processes and the activity of antioxidant protection enzymes does not differ from the control group. The obtained results allow to suggest that gas mixture with xenon in regimen of adaptation possesses antistress and antioxidant action.

 

http://istina.msu.ru...tions/10347460/

 

As for electron affinity, iodine is right up there with fluorine and chlorine, but so are gold, sulfur and selenium, so electron affinity doesn't group elements with antioxidant properties, while electronegativity does.

 

The first paper seems to be saying that iodide ion is a crude antioxidant, but not I2.  Xenon isn't an antioxidant-- the Russian paper is mixing up a lot of effects.  They're comparing animals given a mixture of O2 and Xe to animals give O2 and N, but Xenon is an anesthetic, and may also modify the behavior of hemoglobin.  It protects against IR injury via HIF-1alpha activation, which would look like an antioxidant effect, but by a different means.  It probably has other receptor-mediated and/or physical effects as well, but I don't think we can really call it an antioxidant in the chemical sense.
 

[evilbaga]

Ive taken Iodine.

 

I started out with Lugols - 12.5 - 20mg a day.

I didn't see much benefit apart from maybe a little relief from mild stomach issues.

Did this for over 2 months.

 

However, about a month ago I tried Nascent Iodine - this stuff is much better.

First few days it was like a triple jolt of coffee without the jitteriness. 

 

Now its leveled off quite a bit, but still 'wakes me up' slightly but noticeably. 

I also take 400mcg of selenium yeast tablets with it, and enjoy a few brazil nuts a day.

 

Overall, Id say Nascent Iodine is going to make it to my permanent supplement list (and its a heck of a lot cheaper than PQQ!)

Edited by evilbaga, 15 September 2015 - 03:37 AM.

[evilbaga]

 

 

 

Nascent iodine came from Edgar Cayce, a mystic with a ninth grade education. It is unlikely to be anything special.

 

 

Actually it came from a Dr. Sunker Bisey - he just consulted Cayce on how to improve it.

Regardless, it seems to work better, anecdotally, or dare I say - empirically speaking. 

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

 

Nascent iodine came from Edgar Cayce, a mystic with a ninth grade education. It is unlikely to be anything special.

 

 

Actually it came from a Dr. Sunker Bisey - he just consulted Cayce on how to improve it.

Regardless, it seems to work better, anecdotally, or dare I say - empirically speaking. 

 

 

 

It appears that Bisey was not the first either, but was merely the first to market it in the US, along with some Cayce magnetic transmutation mumbojumbo.

[Turnbuckle]

Getting back to the OP, I think it's important how you take the Lugol's--

 

The first day I took 4 drops in a cup of juice. Within 5 minutes I felt an electrifying blissful glowing energy sweeping over my body. I felt like my eyes were bursting with an ethereal energy, as if mini fractal universes were radiating from within my iris. My thoughts had gained an extra couple dimensions in their complexity. This is all within just 5 minutes of drinking this.

 

It was amazing. Of course, the intensely deep thoughts become less as the day progressed, but one thing remained. The energy. I felt younger. 5 years younger in fact(I'm 21). The energy throughout the entire day did not wear off. Best of all, it didn't interfere with my sleep, it actually made me sleep better.

 

 

The first time I took it in water, and while the effect was greater than with KI, it's wasn't anything like the above report. Yesterday I took six drops in a glass of juice. Stirring it the juice turned dark, almost black, then gradually lightened so that the color was almost unchanged. I assumed it was reacting and forming a complex mix of iodides. This time I got a body effect, but much less than reported above. And my sleep was greatly affected, unlike above. I woke up in the middle of the night with my brain buzzing as if on a great deal of caffeine, and this morning I was editing something I'd gone over many times before, and suddenly I was seeing how to improve it in ways that had escaped me previously.

 

So what I've learned is--

6 drops is too much

take it only in the morning

take it in juice, not in plain water

 

Note: Once a week I go almost supplement free, and I took this on one of these days to minimize interactions.

[8bitmore]

[...]

I assumed it was reacting and forming a complex mix of iodides

[...]

So what I've learned is--

6 drops is too much

take it only in the morning

take it in juice, not in plain water

 

Note: Once a week I go almost supplement free, and I took this on one of these days to minimize interactions.

[...]

 

Thanks for report - so, if we stay with the theory that the mix is forming complex iodides and these are what are the source of beneficial health effects: what kind of juice did you mix the iodine in with? I guess there's quite large scale variability possible between orange juice, grapefruit juice, apple juice..etc..etc.

Edited by 8bitmore, 25 September 2015 - 08:23 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

A pineapple/coconut mix.

[Rocket]

I get really cool dreams from iodine based on how much I take before bed.  It wears off over time and then I stop taking it and cycle it like that.   

[davis89x]

6 drops is too much

6 drops of how concentrated lugola? How much ml it would be or how much iodine?

Thanks

[mikey]

Ive taken Iodine.

 

I started out with Lugols - 12.5 - 20mg a day.

I didn't see much benefit apart from maybe a little relief from mild stomach issues.

Did this for over 2 months.

 

However, about a month ago I tried Nascent Iodine - this stuff is much better.

First few days it was like a triple jolt of coffee without the jitteriness. 

 

Now its leveled off quite a bit, but still 'wakes me up' slightly but noticeably. 

I also take 400mcg of selenium yeast tablets with it, and enjoy a few brazil nuts a day.

 

Overall, Id say Nascent Iodine is going to make it to my permanent supplement list (and its a heck of a lot cheaper than PQQ!)

 

Are you still taking it?

 

If so, what do you find to be something like optimal dosing?

 

Thank you!

[evilbaga]

 

 

Are you still taking it?

 

If so, what do you find to be something like optimal dosing?

 

Thank you!

 

 

Yes. But I guess I should be more specific.

 

After a while taking it, I developed a headache.

2 things:

1) The headache moved position after a while

2) It seemed to get much worse on standing up (Orthostatic intolerance?).

 

Now, if you browse alternative forums, they will say this is a bromide detox, and it will go away after a while (and you can alleviate it with sea salt and Vitamin C etc etc).

I don't know if its bromide detox or not.

 

If it is detox, overall I guess its a good thing - we got a lot of bromide in us that shouldn't be there.

If it isnt, it would be worrying - the iodine itself, especially in nascent form, could have an affinity for the brain, and may be locally overdosing(?)

 

However, I found out the headache is COMPLETELY eliminated by taking 500-1000mg of Vitamin C... within 10-20 minutes. 

As I am generally an avid user of Vitamin C - being aware of its water soluble qualities - I generally dose on it every few hours and/or use a time release form (overall minimum 3 grams a day) - so I dont know, hypothetically if I would still be getting the headache if I was just taking Nascent Iodine.

 

Now, I take Nascent Iodine on weekends - 2-3 drops a day. And I still feel it giving me a small nice buzz.

[mikey]

Thank you, ibiga.

 

That gives me something to work with. 

 

I took five drops of Logol's yesterday and today and I think it did improve cognition.

 

I'll switch to 4 mg of nascent iodine tomorrow and try being off and on it.

 

It seems prudent to consider supplementing extra iodine.

 

I generally take 3-4,000 mg of Endur-C (5-7 hour time-release) a couple-few times a day, as I find that I'm at my best, less sinus/allergies, better mood with 6,000 mg+/day, so I likely wouldn't suffer a headache anyway.

 

 

Edited by mikey, 17 April 2017 - 01:59 AM.

[aconita]

Headache from iodine, especially frontal, may indicate overdose, usually a metallic taste develops first but not necessarily so.

 

Difficult sleeping is another common indicator.

 

Detox usually gives more of a nausea feeling.

 

Lugol is made of potassium iodide and iodine (and water), since potassium iodide is considerably less toxic some consider long term supplementation with it safer than Lugol.

 

Lugol comes in different concentrations too (usually 2% and 5%), therefore make sure about the concentration of yours before just relying on how many drops.

 

I seem to do fine with 1 drop/day of SSKI, occasionally taking 6-8 drops up to 3-4 times a day in order to fight off infections will lead to overdose symptoms in 2-3 days (for me).  

 

To resolve overdose stay off 2-3 days or until symptoms disappear.

 

Not a good idea to push to overdose too often.

 

Always mix drops in half glass of water in order to minimize the caustic effect.

[Oakman]

I got some Lugol 2% last week, but according to their site, daily dosing is not recommended. I am going with 2-3 drops twice a week, as I'm 150 lbs as it seems only prudent to not overdue it.

 

"When used to maintain the iodine content of the body the dose is small and is taken only on certain days of the week. When the mineral content of the body is analyzed, only a trace of iodine is found. Ten drops of iodine represent more iodine than is found in the entire body. For this reason, the dose of Lugol's solution of iodine is one or two drops (In this article Dr. Jarvis is speaking about Lugol's Solution 5%. When using Lugol's Solution 2% use 2-3 single drops to get the equivalent), depending on your body weight. If you weigh 150 pounds  or less, for example, your dose to maintain the normal iodine content of the body is one drop, taken at one meal on Tuesday and Friday of each week. If you weigh more than 150 pounds, the dose should be two drops instead of one. It is useful to remember that the human body works on the minimum of anything it needs."

 

http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

[Diamondz]

I'm sure there is lots of science behind the use; may it be supportive or not. Many brands of salt are iodized. The body doesn't have the ability to produce Iodine itself, and it's supplemented.

 

If you want, you can find research and studies on underdeveloped nations or places where new-borns/children don't have access to a general standard of nutrients and note their developmental effect.

It's kind of extensive, even people in first-world countries not obtain proper nutrition, it's even worse from pregnant women.

[acrosstheveil]

Iodine deficiency is fairly common. We don't use as much salt, much less iodized salt, as we used to. Iodized salt that sits around, particularly in higher humidity environments loses its iodine. The iodide is getting oxidized to iodine, which is volatile. When I started using potassium iodide at 225 ug/day, I noticed a distinct improvement. I was probably a little hypothyroid, and it sounds like Siro may have been as well. His experience was probably not placebo, or at least not entirely placebo. I have a problem with Lugols, though. The difference between iodine and iodide is the same as the difference between chlorine, a deadly green gas, and chloride, an ion that we can't live without. Elemental iodine is a powerful oxidizing agent; drinking it is kind of like drinking bleach. Iodide is a benign ion that your body has a need for. I'm not aware of any need for I₂, the elemental form of iodine. The ironic thing is that when you drink iodine in Lugols, the first thing it will do is rip the electrons from the nearest biomolecule it can find, thus turning itself into iodide as it wreaks havoc with your biochemistry. Why not just skip the injury and take iodide in the first place?

 

this is why nascent iodine exists

[shp5]

do you take vitamin c with lugols, before or after?

[ironfistx]

I've been told iodine supplementation can fuck you up substantially.

You raise some good points. Yes I meant bromide, I get the two mixed up.

The problem with hyperthyroidism is it is a hard to clarify condition. A person is rarely totally hyperthyroid. They usually have a couple of the symptoms, sometimes less, sometimes more. The problem is every persons body chemistry is different, so there is not really a definable amount of T3 and T4 thyroid hormones that will make somebody go 'hyperthyroid'.

'Hyperthyroidism' is more so a spectrum type disorder. Comparable to autism in a way. Nobody is simply autistic or not autistic. There are spectrums involved. Hyperthyroidism could be defined as when thyroid hormones reach a level where uncomfortable side effects arise. There is no on or off switch. It's a gradual thing. Nobody goes immediately hypo or immediately hyper.

For instance, one person could have 100x the normal level of thyroid hormones and not have any hyperthyroid symptoms, while another person could have half of the normal level of thyroid hormones and not have any hyper, or hypo symptoms. It totally depends on how the body handles the thyroid hormones and the chemical reactions surrounding them.

The risk of hyperthyroidism is real with iodine supplementation, but not as scary as people imagine. If a person goes hyperthyroid from too much iodine, they simply dial back their iodine and take a bunch of vitamin c.

In my case, I can feel the progression of the hormones. It is gradual. I am a LONG ways off from any hyperthyroid symptoms. As pointed out before, it is not a instant flip process into hyperthyroidism. I will feel it long before it happens. As long as I don't make any massive dose increases, there should be no issues what so ever regarding hyperthyroidism. Hyperthyroidism is not easy to miss. As long as a person carefully dials up, or dials down their iodine supplementation, hyperthyroidism can easily be avoided.

It's also worth noting that Lugols iodine solution contains Potassium Iodide as well as Iodine. Potassium is important when supplementing with Iodine, as you have pointed out above. All in all, there are tons of people who supplement Iodine and don't come anywhere near going hyperthyroid.

 

Can it really be that easy?
 

[cat-nips]

Can a sore throat be symptomatic of too much supplemental iodine?  I have hypothyroidism, non-synthetically treated, and have taken Thyroid Support supplements containing 150mcg of Iodine + 50mcg of Bladderwrack + 38mg of Kelp.  A few times I have had amazing results initially, for about 2 months, but prolonged dosing lead to massive headaches and bloating.  A week off them, and I am once again freezing in an 80 degree room with body chills and less energy.  Going back on always results in an initial sore throat for a few days and I was wondering if anyone else experienced a correlation with that particular symptom, being the physiology of the thyroid is located where it is.

 

Could it be said that chronic and/or regular headaches while taking supplemental iodine are a sign that you are headed towards toxicity and you should back off?  Could that statement also possibly be true for other commonly reported symptoms resulting for iodine supplementation?

[John250]

What I find odd about iodine is it has the most vast dosing protocol of anything I’ve ever seen. 150mcg all the way up to like 50mg

Edited by John250, 02 September 2018 - 08:03 PM.

[cat-nips]

Excessive or chronic iodine supplementation could likely cause your thyroid to get enlarged, flip you into hyperthyroidism, give you irreversible Hashimoto's thyroiditis or possibly lead to thyroid cancer.  It's a scary thing.  3.5 months on iodine, feeling great with a ton of energy and ignoring possible early side effects, but the constant headaches, difficulty swallowing, neck pain and reading this thread that made me quit after doing some research.  Wondering if I did further damage with supplemental iodine and realizing that I was probably in hyperthyroid state for a few months.    

 

Off iodine for about a week and strange symptoms seemingly subsiding, but once again back to freezing in an mid 80 degree room at the end of summer while feeling too exhausted and miserable to deal.  Forgotten how much this sucks.  It was great while it lasted, but apparently toxic.  Thankful that I got to read this thread or I may never have made the connection.  Thyroid panel to confirm is upcoming.  

Edited by cat-nips, 04 September 2018 - 08:19 PM.

[cat-nips]

I've been told iodine supplementation can fuck you up substantially.

 

Can it really be that easy?
 

 

I'd also like to know the accuracy of being able to negate iodine toxicity and hyperthyroidism with Vitamin C and dose reduction.  Does anyone have any experience of this actually being true or is it just theoretical?  

Edited by cat-nips, 04 September 2018 - 08:26 PM.

[funkdakarma]

I am officially a believer !

After doubling my dose up to 25 mg I started experiencing some pretty discernible benefits, most notably an increased general energy level, less need for afternoon sleep and less sluggishness in the morning which lasts for 10 days now.

Now, lets just hope I can maintain those effects, thank you for this thread and all the help !

 

Firstly, your avatar is the bomb :-) Greatest writer and poet known to mankind!

 

Secondly, I have to say that iodine is pretty close to a miracle for me too. I've taken a whole bunch of supplements before (and still do), mainly to counter damage that has been done by stuff like antidepressants and other less legal stuff. 

 

I was recommended to try iodine mainly because of the deficiency issue, and after my first few doses (3-4 drops of nascent iodine), I started to feeling clearer in my head, a little brighter. It was like the clouds were clearing, and the iodine was getting to the root of the issue, particularly hormonal. I feel more like a man, if that makes sense. Sleep is so much better. I don't wake up panicking as much as I do. I still need to fix the racing thoughts (the worst symptom for me since coming off the antidepressants), but I feel like I'm getting there.

 

The worst thing to suffer from anti-d's were my erections, and the iodine has started to give some life back to my old dog.

 

I am going to be very careful about overdosing, but I am a believer now. 

I get really cool dreams from iodine based on how much I take before bed.  It wears off over time and then I stop taking it and cycle it like that. 

 

My dreams are more vivid as well. Something I've been lacking for a while.

[experimenting]

Any dangers with very light supplementation ie 150mcg/ day from kelp?

[baccheion]

Can a sore throat be symptomatic of too much supplemental iodine?  I have hypothyroidism, non-synthetically treated, and have taken Thyroid Support supplements containing 150mcg of Iodine + 50mcg of Bladderwrack + 38mg of Kelp.  A few times I have had amazing results initially, for about 2 months, but prolonged dosing lead to massive headaches and bloating.  A week off them, and I am once again freezing in an 80 degree room with body chills and less energy.  Going back on always results in an initial sore throat for a few days and I was wondering if anyone else experienced a correlation with that particular symptom, being the physiology of the thyroid is located where it is.
 
Could it be said that chronic and/or regular headaches while taking supplemental iodine are a sign that you are headed towards toxicity and you should back off?  Could that statement also possibly be true for other commonly reported symptoms resulting for iodine supplementation?

  

Excessive or chronic iodine supplementation could likely cause your thyroid to get enlarged, flip you into hyperthyroidism, give you irreversible Hashimoto's thyroiditis or possibly lead to thyroid cancer.  It's a scary thing.  3.5 months on iodine, feeling great with a ton of energy and ignoring possible early side effects, but the constant headaches, difficulty swallowing, neck pain and reading this thread that made me quit after doing some research.  Wondering if I did further damage with supplemental iodine and realizing that I was probably in hyperthyroid state for a few months.    
 
Off iodine for about a week and strange symptoms seemingly subsiding, but once again back to freezing in an mid 80 degree room at the end of summer while feeling too exhausted and miserable to deal.  Forgotten how much this sucks.  It was great while it lasted, but apparently toxic.  Thankful that I got to read this thread or I may never have made the connection.  Thyroid panel to confirm is upcoming.

Did you take iodine/iodide with 200 mcg L-selenomethionine and other companion nutrients (see: iodine protocol)?

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17028378

[John250]

Assuming bloodwork would be taken to assess levels what is the general consensus of the best brand and dosing of iodine? And should be in the morning with or without food? Thank you

[baccheion]

Assuming bloodwork would be taken to assess levels what is the general consensus of the best brand and dosing of iodine? And should be in the morning with or without food? Thank you

50 mg Lugol's iodine 2-3x/day along with cofactors. Less during maintenance. Optimox's website has info on tests to run and recommended companion nutrients (200 mcg L-selenomethionine, magnesium, vitamin C, sea salt, ATP cofactors, multivitamin, etc).