12 replies to this topic

[mrak1979]

Does anybody know if LM needs to be cycled? I've read somewhere that it may not only increase NGF but also BDNF in the brain. Continuous use could cause TRKb receptor downregulation.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

[fntms]

There is actually little research on LM. Its modus operandi is unknown. So I would think it best to cycle it. I have stopped taking it since I have been having hundreds of "palpitations" (as measured by a Holter) which are benign luckily, but very annoying and that I think might be linked to the LM 40% extract I was taking on and off for a year.
I also noted that the mental stimulation, which is unlike any other stimulation (ie acetylcholine, caffeine, dopamine...) was getting stronger and stronger, mostly very helpful (verbal fluency, memory, "awareness" of thought processes ...)

[1337]

...I also noted that the mental stimulation, which is unlike any other stimulation (ie acetylcholine, caffeine, dopamine...) was getting stronger and stronger, mostly very helpful (verbal fluency, memory, "awareness" of thought processes ...)

Now there hardly seems to be anything wrong with that!

How much were you taking? For how long? Stacked with anything else?

Edited by 1337, 09 December 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[fntms]

I was taking a lwo dose (about 200mg, rarely 400mg) 1-2x per day of a 40% extract bought Aliexpress (and some more expensive pills from iherb before that). Also eating the dry mushroom from time to time.
Not stacking with any noots, but I take 2 3x 12,5mg Stablon per day for anxiety...

Edited by fntms, 09 December 2013 - 04:10 PM.

[normalizing]

^ how is your tolerance to stablon ? i started 1-2 12mg a day and went all the way up to 8 pills a day. the effects only last like 1 hour so i kept taking it and taking it and i believe tolerance built up. this is a huge problem with this lovable drug. fucking waste of money 1 hour high !

[fntms]

I don't get this 1hr high people mention with Stablon.
I notice some "stress relief" about 30mins after taking it, but not crash later on.
The other effect I notice is added verbal fluency and more outgoing social attitude, which lasts througout the day it seems.
There is also a libido effect, also pretty much "stable" (and subtle, ie I need to put my mind to it first!), but this might be linked to the general anti-depressive effect.
I've never taken more than 3x a day, that may be your problem.
I've been taking the brand name pills and am currently experimenting with substituting with the ebay powder (because it's such a hassle now to get my prescription refilled), with good results. If anything the powder seems more effective (in terms of subjective short term "impact" so to speak, with maybe a bit more stimulation/"high").

[Steve Zissou]

Interesting, I am having some 'palpitations' right now and I have been taking lions mane for about a week. Amazing stuff though, the effects are ridiculously strong for me. Very stimulating. Might be better to cycle like you said.

Has anyone experienced any permanent effects?

[normalizing]

I don't get this 1hr high people mention with Stablon.
I notice some "stress relief" about 30mins after taking it, but not crash later on.
The other effect I notice is added verbal fluency and more outgoing social attitude, which lasts througout the day it seems.
There is also a libido effect, also pretty much "stable" (and subtle, ie I need to put my mind to it first!), but this might be linked to the general anti-depressive effect.
I've never taken more than 3x a day, that may be your problem.
I've been taking the brand name pills and am currently experimenting with substituting with the ebay powder (because it's such a hassle now to get my prescription refilled), with good results. If anything the powder seems more effective (in terms of subjective short term "impact" so to speak, with maybe a bit more stimulation/"high").

tell me how the bulk works. i know all those bulks are usually suspicious and not of best quality. lots of scams relation them. but im optimistic maybe there are some cheap powder forms out there and if you experience some good results, please report. going to be a huge deal to find it much cheaper in bigger quantity instead of paying 20 dollars for 20 pills

[Rior]

^ how is your tolerance to stablon ? i started 1-2 12mg a day and went all the way up to 8 pills a day. the effects only last like 1 hour so i kept taking it and taking it and i believe tolerance built up. this is a huge problem with this lovable drug. fucking waste of money 1 hour high !

Tianeptine's a little addicting. It's very tempting to keep increasing the dose, because there's that initial effect you receive, that diminishes with time. However, most studies indicate that the best benefits of tianeptine are seen after taking it upwards of 8-12 weeks, at 3x a day. Although the initial "high," if you will, goes away, the benefits of tianeptine at a reasonable dose long-term are what are supposed to be the best. Most SSRIs happen to be terrible when you first begin them. Bad side-effects, strongest side-effects, just all-around uncomfortability. However, it's after 8 weeks of using an SSRI that one begins to see an actual benefit. It's at this point, for example, that the real anxiolytic properties of an SSRI come into play.

I believe the same can be said for Tianeptine, except the fact that when you start taking tianeptine, the initial effects feel AWESOME, unlike an SSRI. Then those effects slowly wane down.....and then if you continue the dose for 8 weeks you see the upregulation/downregulation of receptors/rebalancing of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis benefits that will affect you on a day to day basis more, and strongly. The one problem I have with Tianeptine is the inconsistent dose that will always be in your body. The half life is absurdly short, like 4 hours. If they turned it into a prodrug, with a half-life of 36 hours (aka take it once a day, feel everything much longer & don't need to redose 3x daily) I think it would be a far more fantastic pharmaceutical. It's a shame, really, as I would totally take that version of tianeptine and just be chill with life for pretty much ever. Wish they did that.


Now back on track with the thread, I'm not quite sure if Lion's Mane does need to be cycled, but I'd say there's evidence indicating that pretty much everyone should be taking it. I'll probably start a thread on that soon with my reasons why. As for downregulation of the tRKB receptor, I'm not quite sure that's much of an issue. Rita Levi-Montalcini (discoverer of NGF & subsequent Nobel Prize winner) had been taking pure NGF in the form of eyedrops every day for some 33 years (source: http://www.independe...fe-1674005.html) until her death. She said, at age 103, that she was more mentally acute than she felt at age 20. So there's that.

[normalizing]

^ she was taking pure high quality NGF eyedrops tho and the price is extreme. not sure why for the 33 years she has been taking and supporting its use that it has never been widely marketed at more reasonable price for the consumers. might as well for everyone to just try and afford pure NGF eyedrops than any other bullshit sold on the market "claiming" to be booster for NGF but im just so confused about the obscurity of this product. is it some conspiracy to keep it away from the average person ? it might be meant only for the high class, the real filthy rich

[Sciencyst]

^ Hahaha cleearly it is a conspiracy, just like oxytocin and its supposed trust scheme fraud use.

Hmm or it could be that it's just expensive to produce, or hasnt caught on, or has a small market, or lacks studies (does it?)

As for lions mane, I think cycling is best due to its relative lack of research

[Rior]

^ she was taking pure high quality NGF eyedrops tho and the price is extreme. not sure why for the 33 years she has been taking and supporting its use that it has never been widely marketed at more reasonable price for the consumers. might as well for everyone to just try and afford pure NGF eyedrops than any other bullshit sold on the market "claiming" to be booster for NGF but im just so confused about the obscurity of this product. is it some conspiracy to keep it away from the average person ? it might be meant only for the high class, the real filthy rich

Honestly decent question as to why it's been kept away from people for so long, however it may be a very complicated answer. NGF, from what I understand, isn't simply "NGF." From what I've been told by my neuroscience professor, there are like, 5 different kinds of NGF, and 12 or so different kinds of BDNF (guesses as to the numbers he said, not sure of the exact numbers) which complicates things more. What type of NGF was she using? How did she isolate it for herself, did she isolate it constantly from rats? Is the variety she used different than that of rats/aka was it a human variety, is there a difference between the two? These are all questions that, as far as I know, are unanswered--at least publicly. It is extremely out of reach financially for the vast majority of us. From what I understand, the reason for this is that isolating the molecule/creating it (not sure which route she took) is difficult. That's just simply a guess though. If it were easy, a company out there would likely be smart enough to capitalize on this opportunity and create it for everyone else.

I don't know, I'm throwing a lot of "what ifs" out there. Who really knows in the end. LM is supposed to increase NGF noticeably, and using it daily for a number of years would likely yield great benefits, but it would be better to have a long-term study on effects--rather than a long-term study simply on its increase of NGF. Again, there are different types of NGF, as some can induce growth, some induce sustenance of preexisting neurons, and some induce apoptosis--as far as I know. We really on the whole don't know a tremendous amount about this system yet.

[Steve Zissou]

There is a lot to learn, but one things for sure: This stuff is extremely powerful. I don't think you need to take it for years to experience an improvement at all. Even from one week I felt like it was doing something.

I bought the most expensive version I could find (Mushroom Science) and took one pill sublingually. The effects were a very strong form of mental stimulation, and energy which lasted all day. The bottle says take 1 to 2 pills twice a day, but using it sublingually, I couldn't imagine taking more than one a day. So I would recommend people try taking this sublingually for enhanced bio-avaliability and to save money.

Also this doesn't just effect the brain - it seems to effect all the nerves you have. https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3176599/

It also seems to work well to combat the fatigue associated with cannabis use.