48 replies to this topic

[telight]

My order of LOT Number: 20131113 Coluracetam from nootropicsdepot came in today, and I have to say I was very disappointed with the quality. Compared to the powder I received from NSN which was NEARLY white, maybe very slightly off white and oderless, this powder from nootropicsdepot is very dark tan in color, not to mention that it smells "acetony" which indicates a large presence of solvent is still present. There is just no way that this powder is 99.65% pure as indicated by the "COA" that they have posted on their website, clearly this COA is from the manufacturing lab (most likely Chinese) and is mostly likely false. This alone makes me very weary about even wanting to try this powder as it may not be coluracetam.

I figured I would post this here as a warning since coluracetam seems to be very popular and perhaps this large demand was the cause behind the rushed synthesis, which from visual and olfactory inspection is clearly subpar. I will contact the company asking for a refund.

Here is a picture of what I received:

[Q did it!]

Thanks for sharing this. That does not even come close to what COLU look like, nor texture it would appear. More along the lines of some powdered Lecithin that has been exposed to the air for a while.

Edited by Q did it!, 02 December 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[golden1]

This is what my sample from scienceguy looked like. maybe it was a bit less yellow, but it certainly wasn't white. it also did clump up into tiny balls.

[ParMatrix]

Producing Coluracetam is still in its early stages. What this means is that there will be small batch to batch variations. However, just like every other product we sell we test this item in house for identity and purity. Under no circumstances would we offer substandard or out of spec ingredients. We will be posting the most recent test results shortly.Meanwhile if anyone wishes receive these results directly, please email me.

[brainstorm11]

Good catch and thanks for sending it. Probably going to hold off on Coluracetam from Nootropics Depot for a while. I'm hesitant for any because it is in early stages of development, but either way this is a bit worrisome.

[telight]

This is what my sample from scienceguy looked like. maybe it was a bit less yellow, but it certainly wasn't white. it also did clump up into tiny balls.

I looked at the picture in the Coluracetam thread and it appears to be beige colored. The coluracetam I received is fallow colored. (Note I am using this for colors, and I have a color calibrated display) http://en.wikipedia....Shades_of_brown


Here is scienceguy's coluracetam which was like the coluracetam I received from newstar: http://i1075.photobu...AMPHOTO2SML.jpg

And as a comparison the powder I received on a white piece of paper:

[Swanita]

I too ordered some of this and received it yesterday. When I purchased it last week I was told that the assay result was 99.5% and they would post the COA for this batch ASAP, which they still have not done. The COA with 99.65% assay result is for the previous batch they were sold out of. They did post something saying that this batch was a very different color than the last batch, but I did NOT expect it to be this different. It is nearly brown, and the COA they have posted from the prior batch indicates that the color should be from white to light yellow.

I contacted them last night (NootropicsDepot) and they said they would email me the COA for the current batch first thing this morning. I have yet to receive it, although they are in Phoenix so it is still very early there. In the meantime, I have done a 1mg allergy test with the brownish powder alleged to be Coluracetam, but I am hesitant to use it especially after reading this discussion. Of course I also ordered the limit which was 2 grams, for around $30 each. I was very excited to try it, but now not really sure what to do...?

[Ben]

Why would anyone buy a Chinese powder without an independent, batch labelled, COA (certificate of analysis?)

How could you be so careless with your health in the pursuit of unknown gains in intelligence?

[Swanita]

Excellent questions, Ben. I suppose I trusted ND, as they have been deemed a trusted source. I have only been experimenting with nootropics for a few weeks, and after reading some of the discussions here, I was very eager to get my hands on some colu. I had received other products from ND which seem to be legit. At any rate, I think I may have to contact them and see about returning this product.

As for the smell, it definitely has an odor, although not sure if I would call it acetoney. Parmatrix (who posted above) is a rep of NootropicsDepot. I am still awaiting the COA they promised, but since it is in house testing, I'm not sure it's viable. Also, he says they will post the test results for this batch shortly...what is the delay? They told me they had it last week and would post that day (Wednesday, if I'm not mistaken) yet it is still not up on their website.

[ParMatrix]

As many of you are aware, the production process for coluracetam is still being refined and optimized. This is also the reason why the availability of this product has been limited.
Manufacturers (including our vendor) are trying to increase their batch yeilds and also their batch purities. This most recent batch was processed using a newer production catalyst.
This catalyst in absolutely no manner impacts or effects the purity of the active ingredient. It did however impart a darker color to the end result. This is no way an inferior batch
or a reduced potency or efficacy. I promised to post earlier this morning but delayed it so that I could schedule additional time with our lab to run two additional spectrums on this batch.
In each instance purity, identity and assay passed with flying colors. As a company, we stand behind every product we sell and insist on verifying and validating IN HOUSE the purity
of all items. We are the ONLY vendor who does this. If any of you have further questions please post or email me directly. Here is the CoA including HPLC, NMR, and FTIR results.

Attached Files

•  CoA-Coluracetam 1.jpg   138.17KB   100 downloads
•  CoA-Coluracetam 2.jpg   125.05KB   96 downloads
•  coluracetam spectra.JPG   53.65KB   52 downloads

[kenj]

This is the exact same color and consistency that stopacne.nl is selling.

http://www.stopacne....tam-1-gram.html

[Q did it!]

I still have some of ScienceGuys COLURACETAM left (Have been slowly eating away at it got about 155-165mg left)



Edit: Here is ScienceGuys Pic from the COLURACETAM - User Feed Back

Edited by Q did it!, 03 December 2013 - 09:01 PM.

[Swanita]

I don't really see how the same substance can look so completely different...on the COA from the previous batch that ND had posted, the specification says the color is supposed to be white to light yellow. Now suddenly the new COA says it's supposed to be white to brown. Does not seem to make sense to me...this stuff is dark tan/light brown. Do those analysis diagrams look legit to anyone who knows how to read them? I'm going to wait for a few more people to weigh in on this before deciding what to do...right now, leaning towards asking for a refund.

Edited by Suanne Skidd, 03 December 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[golden1]

the smallest impurity can completely change the color. its not an indication of purity.. it shows its not 100% pure, but that is about it.

[herbali]

Unfortunately, color is no way to define purity of a given substance. Color more or less has to do with how it was created and the steps taken to get to the end,but not the end product itself.

I also received this coluracetam and must say the sensory heightening effects are quite amazing, i lost my smell do to chemical interactions in the past but when i went outside this morning to go to work, i could smell everything as if i was a young child again. All my senses were full throttle and i was able to take in an amazing array of awesomness. Other Racetams can and have done this but not to this extent. My brain *wAs* turned -ON- to say the least. My mood today has been ecstatic and it seems like people are just happy to be in my presence. I have been flying through work like its just too easy. Exactly what i look for in a nootropic.

I have never taken Couracetam before so i wouldn't be able to judge upon past experience but it feels like other racetams yet has its own texture. Much of what i have read about its effects are what i have experienced. I have only taken low doses though, 5-7 mgs.

Just thought i would share my observations, in the end be your own observer.

[Swanita]

herbali,
Did you do it alone or with other nootropics? Also, sublingually or orally? Only 5-7 mgs, how many times? I actually tried 7 mgs sublingually and did not really notice much, but had already taken a few others before it. Maybe I did not take enough...

Also...I have to ask...are you, in any way, affiliated with NootropicsDepot?

Edited by Suanne Skidd, 04 December 2013 - 12:11 AM.

[herbali]

I took it this morning with my normal nootropic stack,

1 X 600mg Alpha-GPC
1 X 600mg CDP-choline
6 g Piracetam
2 Magnetic Pills (which by the way are amazing)

Its possible my dose was closer to 10mg as my scale is not extremely sensitive.

I took it later in the day before going home from work (same dose) and it had a very similar effect yet milder. I find all racetams to be milder as the day gets later. Probably to do with Adrenals and such. But its amazing how these things effect each one of us so much differently. I tend to get very good effects from all racetams though at minimal dosages. There is no question in my mind it is what they say it is and good quality. I found that i was truly experiencing music as it should be felt, thats for sure. There is just Something so special about how it fine tunes your sensory systems.

And No i am by no means associated with Nootropics Depot other than i made my first purchase with them last week. Got some Pram, Ani, CDP, Suni and Coluracetam. They seem like a very legit company though and pretty awesome they do in house testing, not a lot of companies do and just go by what their seller gives them. These guys seem like they are trying to do this right and i respect that. I have a lot of experience with substances from all different ranges of the field and i know that just because the color is a bit different on a chemical that is this complex to create from batch to batch has very little to do with purity.

But again don't just take my word for it, if you don't feel comfortable putting this in your body definitely don't. I just wanted to put my own experience out there. Hope you have a peaceful evening.

[brainstorm11]

"...we sell and insist on verifying and validating IN HOUSE the purity..."

I'm super glad you have joined the community to engage with your customers for all of our protection. However, you do realize there is a serious conflict of interest? As in, Chinese manufacturers provide false CoA with a similar motive for you / vendors to do so?

Good that the tests are done, but might be less liability if you go through a third party. Anyway, thanks for chiming in with the attachments.

[ParMatrix]

There is a certain level of trust within this business. I can see the conflict of interest as well brainstorm. This conflict of interest is no different than the idea that some of these companies can send out one product to be tested and a different one to you. We have invested in the equipment to do the testing in house properly. We want to be absolutely certain the product we have on hand is what it's claimed to be. This lets us know that what we are sending to customers is exactly what we say it is. We have seen the problems lax testing procedures can bring to companies in this business and we do not want to be in their boat. Additionally, we have used our lab equipment to test products of dubious nature for other companies and expect to expand this soon to the public. We also have working affiliations with major universities and other commercial reference laboratories. We believe our setup is and should be the future of this business. At this time, no other vendor we know of goes to these lengths to assure quality products.

Adulteration is a very real problem in the industry, even on our end. We have a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy with our vendors. If we receive a product which is not to spec or if we find it is not exactly what we expect, We will no longer use that vendor.This business has gotten a bad wrap because companies have gotten lazy and irresponsible. We do not want to be part of this group.

Nootropics is less than 5% of our total business. We are major suppliers of a full range of ingredients to other manufacturers, wholesalers, distributors, and retailers. Just as we test our vendors our customers test us. There is no economic incentive to us as a company to provide less than the highest quality product. For us to fabricate test results, adulterate products, misbrand or mislabel would take more effort than it is worth =) Chain of custody, SoPs, documentation, historical archives, etc. would all have to be forged. This would be next to impossible unless every one of our fellow employees was a party to the act. As all of you are well aware, There is plenty of margin in this business to do things the right way. We are very proud of our company, our employees, and our products.

Edited by ParMatrix, 04 December 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[NG_F]

Heads up guys ! Coluracetam is back from NSN !! Get it while it's hot!

http://www.newstarno...coluracetam.php

[Ceretropic]

All of the legitimate coluracetam we have received was off-white in color. We have also received two batches of FAKE coluracetam that was pure white. We have also gotten word from a few other suppliers that there is a batch of fake pure white coluracetam going around from a Chinese supplier. So bashing Nootropics Depot purely because of the color is not fair to them.

[Guacamolium]

All of the legitimate coluracetam we have received was off-white in color. We have also received two batches of FAKE coluracetam that was pure white. We have also gotten word from a few other suppliers that there is a batch of fake pure white coluracetam going around from a Chinese supplier. So bashing Nootropics Depot purely because of the color is not fair to them.

There's a 3rd sample one now that matches the fluffiness and texture, but is pure white. I shall break out the 50ml beakers, cold, pure H2O, Food grade propylene glycol, and acetone and see how they fare to the tried and true cream batches.

[Swanita]

Has anyone had Colu from NSN? I did not see a COA with a purity percentage among the documents they posted. Can anyone read those diagrams and make sense of them?

NSN says theirs is "pure white, just as it should be"...any chance it's the fake stuff?

[Ceretropic]

Has anyone had Colu from NSN? I did not see a COA with a purity percentage among the documents they posted. Can anyone read those diagrams and make sense of them?

NSN says theirs is "pure white, just as it should be"...any chance it's the fake stuff?

There is always a chance it is fake. We have received multiple substances now that were fake. They all came from verified trusted suppliers too. Unless you as a supplier are doing your own testing when the product comes in, there is no way to be sure.

[NG_F]

https://www.dropbox....oularacetam.jpg

[herbali]

All of the legitimate coluracetam we have received was off-white in color. We have also received two batches of FAKE coluracetam that was pure white. We have also gotten word from a few other suppliers that there is a batch of fake pure white coluracetam going around from a Chinese supplier. So bashing Nootropics Depot purely because of the color is not fair to them.

Well said, this is exactly what i have been trying to convey. I have gotten more adulterated substances that looked so pristine and "white", you wouldn't have ever thought they would have been impure. Perception is everything and sometimes if you go forward with a bias one it can ruin the best of what is truly real. At some point i guess we have to put our trust into something and if that's still not good enough i guess buy our own GC or even better MS machine. Wouldn't that be awesome. heh

Edited by herbali, 04 December 2013 - 10:12 PM.

[Swanita]

So, how can you tell if it's fake and what recourse do you have if it is? This is my first experience with colu, and although herbali apparently had a great effect from the ND colu, I don't notice anything at all, and I really don't like the fact that it's brown when the specs say white to off-white for the color. This stuff is no where close to off-white. The ND guy (ParMatrix) says they tested it and it's all good. I'm not really sure what to think at this point...I suppose if I had some of scienceguy's stuff (known to be real and good quality...) I would know what it's supposed to be and what effect it has on me, but with nothing to compare it to, how do you know? Also, obviously, it's expensive...

Edited by Suanne Skidd, 04 December 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[Ceretropic]

https://www.dropbox....oularacetam.jpg

They are seriously being childish with statements like that. I would personally trust Nootropics Depot over NSN any day of the week. They are building their own in-house testing lab. They have quality at the forefront.

[NG_F]

https://www.dropbox....oularacetam.jpg

They are seriously being childish with statements like that. I would personally trust Nootropics Depot over NSN any day of the week. They are building their own in-house testing lab. They have quality at the forefront.

I definitely agree! Any company that has to bash others to make their own look like the "right one" definitely sets of Red flags in my head!

I like NM's colu and am getting the gains that one is likely to experience, give or take a bit.

I ordered some Oxiracetam from NSN and absolutely experienced 0000 effects from 1.5gms. I know how it reacts with me, as I have capsulated oxiracetam from Cerebral health raw powder, 400mg, size 01 caps and they have the right effect on me. I ordered 500gms about 18mos ago.

I'm staying away from NSN in general. I'm glad they were back ordered and I found about NM.

I will keep my eyes open for feedback with all of Nootropics Depot's Noots and supps.

[herbali]

Personally, i have had great experiences from both companies. NSN's Oxiracetam works very well for me as does all of their products, so not sure whats up with that.

I just like the idea of an in house testing system like ND's, one more step of security in my eyes, and something i see as being a major stronghold for a company in this kind of business. I will be ordering more from both companies in the future as some have better pricing on others and offer more quantity.

Well, Hopefully you all find what you are seeking, in the end that's all that matters. Have a good evening.