48 replies to this topic

[baronjpetor]

Ordered both NSN and ND Colu... Will keep you updated about my anecdotal experiences.
Of course I'm not affiliated with any of these 2 vendors.

[newmind]

It is likely that NSN and ND Coluracetam are from the same supplier. The difference in color is likely due to a repurification step that took place after the time that ND took shipment of the Coluracetam.

NewMind is currently offering Coluracetam from an EU based firm, verified at >99.90% purity by LC-MS and NMR.

Due to the high cost for this degree of purity, the Coluracetam is being offered at-cost, and limited stock is available. Some of this batch will be reserved for use as a reference sample against which we will compare other suppliers.

Separately, we soon expect to receive Coluracetam from a more affordable supplier, at a >99.% purity specification, which is likely the same supplier from which ND and NSN have received their Coluracetam.

Initially, this more affordable supplier offered a batch of tan-orange tinted Coluracetam, which according to manufacturer-provided HPLC analysis, tested near but slightly below 99% purity. (Identical to HPLC document provided by ND above).

From the data and the supplier, we assessed that it was likely genuine Coluracetam of fairly high purity, but discolored by a small amount of strongly tinted impurity.

The significance of this impurity aside from visual appearance is unknown, but would suggest only partial purification. Nonetheless, there is no reason to discount third party or independent in-house analytical testing results (such as FT-IR posted by ND above).

We decided not to accept the discolored batch, and NSN did not accept it. Subsequently, the same material was repurified, resulting in a white batch meeting the 99% purity spec.

Once our current batch of 99.9% Coluracetam is out of stock, we will offer the 99% Coluracetam from the same supplier as ND and NSN, with adjusted pricing to reflect the lower cost.

Edited by newmind, 04 December 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[Swanita]

I really appreciate NewMind explaining what likely happened here...this makes sense as to why there are suddenly multiple vendors with colu when no one had it before last week. I'm wondering what luck (if any) telight had with returning the brown colu to ND? He has not chimed in for a while, and based on NM's explanation, I would like to return the tan/brown product to ND, as obviously about 1% of it is something else, at least part of which is causing the discoloration. I feel like 1%+ is too much impurity...I was initially told it was 99.5% pure, so there is roughly twice as much impurity as what I was told before I purchased it. Everything else I have ordered from ND has seemed to be of high quality, but I am not happy with this coluracetam. I would like to return it for a refund or exchange for something else. I did purchase through Paypal, so that may help, but I would hope that ND would be willing to refund my money or let me exchange it for other products, expecially considering they gave me (what turned out to be) inaccurate information prior to my purchasing it, and then did not provide the COAs until today, when they said they would post them last Wednesday. Also, suddenly the specs on the color changed...I'm not saying it's not colu, just that there's something weird about it that I'm not comfortable with. If ParMatrix is still monitoring this thread, perhaps he could let me know how to proceed and/or what they are willing to do for me. As I said, everything else I have ordered from them has been top-notch.

[telight]

I really appreciate NewMind explaining what likely happened here...this makes sense as to why there are suddenly multiple vendors with colu when no one had it before last week. I'm wondering what luck (if any) telight had with returning the brown colu to ND? He has not chimed in for a while, and based on NM's explanation, I would like to return the tan/brown product to ND, as obviously about 1% of it is something else, at least part of which is causing the discoloration. I feel like 1%+ is too much impurity...I was initially told it was 99.5% pure, so there is roughly twice as much impurity as what I was told before I purchased it. Everything else I have ordered from ND has seemed to be of high quality, but I am not happy with this coluracetam. I would like to return it for a refund or exchange for something else. I did purchase through Paypal, so that may help, but I would hope that ND would be willing to refund my money or let me exchange it for other products, expecially considering they gave me (what turned out to be) inaccurate information prior to my purchasing it, and then did not provide the COAs until today, when they said they would post them last Wednesday. Also, suddenly the specs on the color changed...I'm not saying it's not colu, just that there's something weird about it that I'm not comfortable with. If ParMatrix is still monitoring this thread, perhaps he could let me know how to proceed and/or what they are willing to do for me. As I said, everything else I have ordered from them has been top-notch.

I agree with you completely, while others have made excellent points in this thread, it is clear that the coluracetam from ND is not as pure as the coluracetam that Scienceguy had, or the coluracetam sold by NSN which we KNOW has a white/slight off white beige color. If we know that highly purified coluracetam has this color then it follows logically that one with a tan color is of less purity (not even mentioning the fact that I could actually smell the solvent in the ND coluracetam). I do not feel comfortable putting this in my body especially because I was lead to believe that this had higher purity then it actually did when I purchased it. (Yes, granted the difference percentage wise is not very high, this does not change this fact).

ND has told me that they will have pure white powder for their next batch, which is what I had expected this batch would be when I ordered it. They have also allowed me to get a refund, although they were somewhat reluctant. They claim they want you to be 100% satisfied, and this is clearly an error on their end, but it looks like I will have to send back the coluracetam and absorb all of the shipping costs. From a customer service standpoint I think it could have been better, but I am still content with the fact that I will at least get some of money back.

I really did like ND as a vendor, because I had no problems with their tianeptine. But this experience has been frustrating, and ND doesn't seem to want to admit that they made an error and that I should have been happy with what I received (I extrapolated all this in the tone of the emails that I received with their customer support).

Edited by telight, 05 December 2013 - 02:38 AM.

[telight]

I should also add that 99.9% would be consider 10 times more pure then 99.0% and it becomes very difficult and costly to refine it to the very last tenth's and hundredth of a percent. If you look at prices for various chemicals for in Sigma-Aldrich you'll see this reflected in the price. A particular chemical of 99.9% purity would cost a few times more than the same chemical of 99.0% purity. So while this coluracetam from ND is MOST LIKELY safe because very few substances are active at 1/100 the typical dose of coluracetam, I can't help but feel I was cheated considering that NSN is selling "pure" white powder at a lower cost.

[Isochroma]

As of today's Racetam Prices list [December 8.6 2013]:

Mina [COA]
<minax123@hotmail.com>
XI'AN YIYANG BIO-TECH CO.,LTD.

Has today quoted me an excellent price on Coluracetam. She can accept 5g order quantities for $70 + $40 DHL shipping = $110 Total or $22,000/kg which is lower than all Western resellers yet still very affordable. Her quote today represents a new value for Coluracetam and means that for such purchases it is cheaper to buy from her company than any Western reseller. She also has a COA which is downloadable from the link in this post or from her Racetam Prices list entries.

Better still, her company takes PayPal and Western Union. PayPal has a buyer protection policy so if the product does not arrive the buyer can file a claim and will receive 100% of the payment back. Her company's PayPal email account address will pop up if you hover your mouse over the PP text in the Payment column of the Racetam Prices list.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 09 December 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Isochroma]

Big news everyone!

I have been putting massive effort into sourcing both new Coluracetam retailers and also manufacturers over the last few days.

That effort paid off bigtime today.

As of today's Racetam Prices list version December 11.11 2013, many new Coluracetam suppliers have been added! Finally, Coluracetam is now affordable and there are also many suppliers. This in itself is excellent news for the world's only on-market high-affinity Choline reuptake enhancer but the real icing on the cake is the Chinese manufacturer who contacted me today after I sent him the Coluracetam RFQ.

I will let his pricing - which includes the EMS fee - speak for itself:

From: Suzhou MyLand Pharm&Nutrition (China)

Sales: Gledon Fan <info@mylandpharm.com>

Shipping: EMS (Tracked Express Mail)

Payment: Western Union

Coluracetam: 100g: $890 USD [$8,900 / kg]

Coluracetam: 10g: $180 USD [$18,000 / kg]

Coluracetam: 1g: $90 [$90,000 / kg]

So far the cheapest manufacturer - Season Zhu of TrustWe Group - has been selling ten grams of Coluracetam for $459 USD.

The cheapest three Western retailers using their cheapest shipping options respectively sell at most five-gram amounts. Their pricing including cheapest shipping options are as follows:

Health Supplement Wholesalers: $124.96 [24,992 / kg]

Nootropics Depot: $162.74 [$32,548 / kg]

NewMind: (3g) $117.23 [$39,077 / kg]

Ultrafast EMS shipment and groundbreakingly-low prices characterize this new manufacturer who is willing to sell such low MOQs directly to consumers.

[Isochroma]

On the thirteenth day before Christmas I bring you new Colur for your souls!

As of today's Racetam Prices list [December 12.1 2013], massloads of new Coluracetam suppliers have sent quotes and analytic results - including those dodgy old COAs but importantly - actual chemical analyses which are now available for download to verify the safety, purity and quality of their products.

Even better, the new manufacturers who have sent quotes are all lower-priced than existing manufacturers who were already on the list. Better yet, one takes PayPal payment! Product arrives and is to your satisfaction or money is returned via PayPal claim. PayPal Buyer Protection.

This PayPal supplier is Nancy from Wuhan HengHeDa Pharm Co., Ltd and her prices are incredibly low! Not only that but she has provided LC-MS and HPLC results to confirm the purity and quality of her company's Coluracetam product. The files and all cost data are now within the newly-uploaded Racetam Prices list for your perusal!

The most stunning price in her quote is the totally affordable $135 for 10g Coluracetam by EMS or $140 by DHL to Canada - shipping to the USA will be a similar price. This is the same price charged by Western resellers for 5g Coluracetam including shipping and includes PayPal Buyer Protection!

Today's efforts have doubled the quantity of Coluracetam you can buy in the $135-$140 price range - from 5g to 10g! And the quotes have only just started rolling in - and I have not finished sending out RFQs either.

By Christmas Day all the world's Coluracetam suppliers with full company data, COAs, analytic results, payment terms, prices, shipping data and total prices sorted from cheapest to costliest for each SKU size will be listed in the Racetam Prices list's Coluracetam table. All of them. I am pushing every single manufacturer to provide all analytic results they have and they are rapidly providing these results as files which are immediately uploaded to file hosters and linked into the Racetam Prices list.

That is my Christmas present to all of you. When I took Coluracetam daily for a month in April of this year it was intoxicating and intensely enlightening visually, cognitively and spiritually. The visual colour in all its splendor; the sense of utter inner peace and joy; the true depth of the highest level of awareness is incomparable and exists not in any other racetam. I have a strange feeling that Coluracetam represents the peak of what racetams can achieve within the human frame and perhaps the peak of all that the entire field of nootropics has achieved to date in this world. Coluracetam has a true depth of soul which is missing from other racetams.

I will make Enlightenment affordable for everyone in doubletime and simultaneously light the afterburners on every nootropics reseller by both lowering their cost of product supply and raising their profit margins. The New Year will not be a mere calendric rotation but a step into the New World of Eternalization.

[Ceretropic]

I would caution everyone to be careful with those suppliers. We have already been scammed by multiple suppliers on your list, Isochroma. We have received a number of substances that were supposed to be couracetam, but tested negative. We are still trying to figure out what they are. Also, the suppliers have denied any wrongdoing, and are refusing to refund our money, even though we have COAs to prove their products are fake. A couple other nootropics vendors have written me saying that they too have received fake coluracetam in the past few weeks. All of them have been pure white powders, and had Chinese COAs saying they were pure. It's all lies.

For sure, Helen from Pandora Biologic is selling a mystery powder as coluracetam. We are currently testing the others, so I will hold off calling them out by name till we have the results. But there is a huge issue with coluracetam scamming going on right now! Buyer beware.

[Isochroma]

Jesus living Christ!

God just knocked on my door. A very, very gargantuan God.

I just received a reply from the RFQ I sent to Pfizer! The Big Boyz!

You want a legit supplier? Pfizer is the second-largest pharmaceutical corporation in the world by revenue.

And as would be expected from Pfizer they have their Coluracetam synthesis down pat. Ultracheap.

Only $2,309 / kg including EMS fee - with a 1kg MOQ of course. I have replied with a request for test results: HPLC, GC-MS, LC-MS and NMR. However, I think that nobody with a drop of sanity should doubt the purity of their synthesis. If they screwed up this one then billions of people have a lot to worry about in their prescription bottles and so do the world's hospitals.

In comparison the cheapest three suppliers as of the minute before Pfizer's quote arrived were: $6,755, $6,760 and $8,200 per kilogram.

Take that quote and plug it into your group buy. It will be posted when I complete version December 13.3 of the Racetam Prices list later today.

Racetam Prices December 13.3 is now online with Pfizer's world-shattering, market-convulsing Coluracetam quote complete with payment details and EMS shipping fee at the top of the Coluracetam table for all you droolers to dribble over.

At only 1/2.926 or 34.18% of the previous lowest priced-supplier's quote of $6,755 per kilogram, I think that large and fast price drops across the Coluracetam industry including retailers will inevitably arrive right on time for Christmas or New Year's at the latest.

Poor ScienceGuy's $15,000 for 500g - $30,000/kg - Coluracetam is now a gross ripoff at twelve times the price of Pfizer's quote. 12.992 times to be exact.

Before mass-production each automobile was a product custom-made and hand-crafted by artisans for the wealthy few who could afford it - and few they were. Henry Ford created the first assembly line to reduce the cost of production and by doing so he successfully transformed the automobile from a rare specialty item for the rich into an affordable product for the masses and thus changed the world. It is my goal to do the same.

[Isochroma]

crazyoldcoot: Who are you and what business do you represent?

"It's all lies" is it? Were you foolish enough to order kilogram quantities without first buying a smaller sample and sending it for independent analysis? Either you are a careless businessman or you are a clever businessman selling fear to the masses to avoid them buying directly from manufacturers.

It is not my responsibility to audit suppliers but if you check the Racetam Prices list you will see that I have obtained actual test results - not just COAs - from most of the recently-added suppliers and am requesting more. These results include:

HPLC: High-Performance Liquid Chromatography

GC-MS: Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry

LC-MS: Liquid Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry

NMR: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance

The results are posted as linked files in the list and many more are arriving daily.

If you won't trust the Chinese manufacturers then buy from Pfizer.
If you won't trust them then you're out of luck.

As for consumers who buy smaller quantities - the 10g SKU for $135 - $140 including EMS/DHL fees respectively - available from Nancy of Wuhan HengHeDa Pharm Co., Ltd is a completely safe purchase because they take PayPal payment. If the product does not arrive or is not to the buyer's satisfaction they can file a PayPal claim and get every cent back in eight days as I have with many other non-drug and also drug sellers in the past. Sucessfully every time but once.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 13 December 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[Ceretropic]

I am one of the owners of Ceretropic. No need to get defensive. I was not calling you out on anything. I was merely letting people know that there have been multiple scams from the suppliers on your list. And no, I did not order kilogram quantities from suppliers I had not worked with previously. The scams so far have been for smaller quantities. However, they are still scams that people should be aware of.

We currently do not have any coluracetam, as our shipment is being held in customs. That is a totally separate issue. There is no reason for me to lie to scare people, as I cannot sell them any coluracetam right now even if I wanted to.

I think it's great you are compiling this list. I just wanted to make people aware of the multiple scams going on right now with coluracetam. Knowledge is power.

[Ceretropic]

Also, why is the Pfizer reps email pfizerpharma94@gmail.com? Shouldn't that be an actual Pfizer domain email address? Plus, that person comes up on LookChem as being from Cameroon... Are you absolutely sure that is a real Pfizer rep, and not a scam?

[golden1]

Also, why is the Pfizer reps email pfizerpharma94@gmail.com? Shouldn't that be an actual Pfizer domain email address? Plus, that person comes up on LookChem as being from Cameroon... Are you absolutely sure that is a real Pfizer rep, and not a scam?

isochroma... lol. sure pfizer said they'd synth coluracetam for you..

[Isochroma]

Aplogies for the fast reaction. Tarring an entire list of Chinese manufacturers - many such as Season Zhu of TrustWe Group who has been selling Phenylpiracetam to the exacting and rather perfectionistic New Star Nootropics - who admittedly had to send a recent batch back for repurification due to it not meeting their purity requirements - is excessive.

It should be noted that NSN sent that Phenylpiracetam batch back not due to fraudulence but merely because the powder had a slight coloration indicating very minor impurity contamination - a level of impurities which many other resellers would not even care to worry about and one which no consumer would notice as far as effects or potency are concerned.

I have also recently received an email from another Chinese Coluracetam manufacturer indicating that a Western reseller has just recently purchased 2kg of Coluracetam - certainly not something a sane business would do if they had anything less than very good confidence in the product's quality.

As for Pfizer, it appears I made a terrible mistake. That contact is 99% likely a fraud. Jeff Kindler was the former CEO of Pfizer. Here is the quote email I received verbatim except for the removal of my name:

"To:The Buyer,

Thanks for your inquiry regarding Coluracetam.

We do sell Coluracetam. Below is our quote;

1.400.00EUR/kg, shipping charges(280.00EUR).Total=1.680.00EUR

Minimum order quantity(MOQ):1kg

Payments:Western union

Courier;EMS Expedited courier(Tracking number shall be provided)

Delivery time; 2 -3days at most

Shipment;immediately after confirmation of FULL payment.Product shall
be ship from our(PFIZER) corporate headquarters here in
istanbul-Turkey.

All shipping charges,wharf charges.custom clearance and whatsoever
charges applicable to the shipping of the above product to your
address shall be the responsibility of and at the expense of the
seller(PFIZER )

Should you want to continue with the procurement(s), then we crave
your indulgence to please confirm your order(s) whereupon we shall
give you our western union coordibnates for payments.

Warm regards and we await your reply.

Serve passionately,Respect all,Improve always,Win together.
........It's the PFIZER's way.

Dr.Dr.jeff kindler
Marketing manager,
PFIZER PHARMACEUTICALS
Aksemsettin Mah,Besyol-sefakoy
istanbul-Turkey
Tel: 00905380546269
Skype;buy.chemicals
pfizerpharma94@gmail.com
www.pfizer.com
.....(Quality is more than a concept at PFIZER,it is our most
important priority.That is why we continually invest our time and
resources in the quest to achieve ever higher levels of quality
execution and quality product)......"

Note the misspellings and Engrish. I have made a single yet terrible mistake and as of Racetam Prices version December 13.4 2013 have removed this fraud's quote. That version is already online. Due to the massive workload of dealing with dozens of companies simultaneously I sometimes let a bad one slip through. I worked fourteen solid hours yesteray until midnight on Coluracetam supplier quotes and managed to bed myself at 1:00A. The work is unpaid and the burden has become heavy as of late.

Thank you very much for pointing out this fraud. He slipped through the first step of my authentication process but would not have survived more than a few days due to my request for analysis results today. It will be entertaining playing some games with him before I wipe his emails and permablock his address.

Nonetheless, the remaining Chinese companies should largely be OK but as with any international business it is the rule that the buyer must first buy a sample for analysis before reselling.

I will take even more care in the future when authenticating manufacturers and want you to provide any analytical results and the corresponding company names so that I can have words with them and take what actions are necessary including immediate delisting.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 14 December 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[Isochroma]

Strangely just two minutes ago I received a message on eBay from Focuspowders that he has 1g Coluracetam to sell but he has restricted the listing - likely in error - to the USA only - so I cannot buy or calculate the shipping cost.

I have replied requesting that he derestrict the shipping and that I will list his sale as soon as he does so. The text of the listing itself indicates international shipping and he ships internationally for all his other products so I expect this is an error.

I have successfully purchased Piracetam and Oxiracetam from him and he is my current supplier for those products but I can only hope he purchased his Coluracetam from a reputable seller.

For those inside the USA here is the listing: 1 Gram OF Coluracetam Nooptropic Like Oxiracetam Aniracetam

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 14 December 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[Isochroma]

Focuspowders did in fact restrict his shipping in error and has now corrected it in realtime.

His listing is now live in the Racetam Prices list December 13.5 2013.

His product ships to: Canada, USA and UK.

Congratulations go to him as the first commercial Coluracetam seller on eBay.

[tjcbs]

Just thought I'd mention that I received coluracetam from ND today, and it is pure white.

[Ceretropic]

Ohh, I forgot to mention it here. Coluracetam from Pandora Bioscience was identified as EDTA (Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid). They have also refused to refund us, even though we have testing proving they are selling a toxic substance labeled as coluracetam. Anybody considering using them for any reason should reconsider.