29 replies to this topic

[YoungSchizo]

Today I took my first amount of Nefiracetam. Because I have no mg scale (yet) I scooped it with a mg spoon that can carry 6-9mg. More then 3 hours ago I scooped 6 Nefiracetam and 20 Choline Bitartrate together with a bit of chocolate as an fat source to absorb it in my (empty) stomach.

After 10-20 minutes I started noticing some mood lifting effects and my eyelids got a bit heavier. I'm a BF series gamer and I (still) don't enjoy the new shit game BF4, where I usually get bored very fast and (rage)play and eventually quit, I just kept playing like as if I liked it, didn't even care how boring and crap the game actually is. My main issues I'm having lately with schizophrenia symptoms is an increase of "positive symptoms", sort of conversations in my head instead of thoughts, Nefiracetam seems to reduced this as far as I noticed right now. Because of this positive symptom I'm quite agitated for weeks and also depressed lately (apathetic, feeling empty) and have a hard time to get an erection and enjoy the good old internet-pron , (here comes the awkward part) although I could not maintain a constant erection (just like the past several weeks) I could enjoy it a little bit more, sounds and movie were a bit more turning on and ejaculation was far more intense. The negative part of this however, it felt like I had an fitness work-out, my arm muscle was pumped like I really had a hard work-out but that was not the case(!!!) , this tension in my muscle kept on for a half hour!! (I wonder how my muscles will feel and/or if this pump would effect my muscle gain/firmness if I go to the gym to have a really hard work-out, I'm definitely gonna try this!)

(other) Pro's I noticed:
Decrease of positive symptoms
Improvement in mood
Slight increase in motivation
Slight improvement in concentration and focus
My mind is more at ease
Thoughts are clearer
Didn't have social interaction today so I'm about to call someone to see how that goes.

Con's:
My joints are less flexible (feels tense and stiff to the point it "hurts")
Muscle's I use become instantly tense
My eyelids feel heavier
Feeling a little bit of tiredness/numbness now that it start to wear off (feeling drugged)


Till yesterday I was using:
Mirtazapine - 30mg
Rivotril - 1,5mg
Sarcosine - 2/3 grams
Pregnenolone - 200mg
NAC - 1200mg
BCAA - 2 grams
ZMA 2 pills - 300mg Magnesium, 20mg Zinc, 7mg B6
Omega 3 - 1000mg
High dosed Multivitamin
Taurine 500mg

I'm throwing Preg out of my stack for the time being (This was already planned, I've been using it for the past 6 months, I first want a bloodtest/hormone test to see if my lowered libido has something to do with Preg), NAC (read somewhere this may interact with Nefi...???), ZMA (don't need it), Taurine (don't need it). I also wonder how/if Rivotril will (inter)act with Nefi when I take Rivo later this evening...

If I roughly calculate the Nefi intake today, it's about 6x7,5mg = 45mg, I don't know if I'm gonna up this to 100mg and/or how many times a day. I don't like taking things that makes me feel drugged, Nefi does, so I'm gonna try to trial this for 7 days before making any hard conclusions.

If some people would like updates let me know or I'm just wasting my time writing this log.

Edited by YoungS, 04 December 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

Update: After it wear off the tension in my joints and muscle's went away and I got a instant headache and somnolence that made me feel shit (took 2 paracetamol's and it got rid of my headache). My "inner conversation/positive symptoms" returned, however, after taking 0.5mg Rivotril it went away again, this time completely (whereas the past few weeks just 0.5mg did not help anymore and/or made me more depressed/agitated), my somnolence went away, mood enhanced (I, actually for the first time BF4 came out enjoyed playing the crap game for hours, time flew by), concentration, focus, thought clearance and being more social increased (the opposite of what Rivo usually does).

I think, even if Nefiracetam wear totally off I think it did something good in that haywired brain of mine though, or I would not have react so positive to just 0.5 Rivotril. Only "negative" thing I feel right now is I feel a little bit tired, especially around the eye area but that does not bother me.

Gonna pop another 1mg Rivo and 30mg Mirtazapine later this night and see how that'll work out..

Edited by YoungS, 05 December 2013 - 01:06 AM.

[Babychris]

No you are not wasting your time. I've wrote a long message, with no chance my computed had some bug..

So I was telling you if I can resume, that mirtazapine = bad (from personnal experience and a I'm studying for becoming doctor but the first argument is stronger) secondly don't listen too seriously to most of psychiatrist doctor. In my opinion skyzophrenia is real it's like a definitive issue. It pop for some reason (bad habits, childhood etc) but with some time and work I think that it could be seriously lowered and more you go away from it more it vanish.

You should discut about cutting your mirtazapine intake. I think that a high dose glycine and niacin with some noopept + Lion's mane and magnesium-L-thrénoate with some serious mental and physical work could be something beneficial.

[Reformed-Redan]

What do you mean by "inner conversation/positive symptoms"? That doesn't sound typical of schizo symptomes. If this is just an internal dialogue, then I don't see why it would be considered positive symptomes. If it were actual hallucinations like voices, then yeah.

[Reformed-Redan]

Please keep us updated; but, up the dose to 100mg. It won't drug you, at least it did not drug me. All that I noticed is that it reduced mental chatter, like "Oh, maybe I want to do that now or this or that."

[YoungSchizo]

What do you mean by "inner conversation/positive symptoms"? That doesn't sound typical of schizo symptomes. If this is just an internal dialogue, then I don't see why it would be considered positive symptomes. If it were actual hallucinations like voices, then yeah.

My internal dialogues are hard to describe/distinguish from actual hearing voices. Today for example, I experience it as internal dialogues, other days I experience it as ongoing spoken conversations/thoughts.. Last one is either a paranoid and/or positive symptom experience...(?)

Anyway, last two days I've been taken Nefi in very small amounts (4 scoops) at night couple of hours before going to bed, it gives me a feeling of overall well being, improves my mood and concentration. However, the down side, I also take paracetamol because even on a low dose it gives me a headache after it wears off.

One of these days I'll try 100mg.

[mono]

I just gave nefi a shot too. I found it to be quite powerful stuff, at first. I felt very focused and aware of my surroundings. Almost felt thoughtless.. I would notice alot of sounds I don't normally, such as the fridge running or endless chatter in a store. Normally I block these things out. Colours were brighter and there was a definite mood boost. There was a feeling of serenity and visual landscapes seemed more interesting and appealing.

I was interested in it as an NMDA enhancer for SZ. But I didn't find it effective. Tolerance developed extremely rapidly! Didn't find it enhanced my cognition in any noticeable way, I just felt more focused and less mental chatter. Can't say it had much of an effect on positives either..

All in all I enjoyed nefi but I wouldn't use it again. Apart from the tolerance issue I didn't find its effective beneficial to me in anyway apart from simply being an interesting experience.

[YoungSchizo]

I was reluctant to try 100mg, I took 100mg 3 hours ago, only thing I experience today is slight tiredness around the eyelids and "time goes faster", same here, TOLERANCE FFS!!

Tomorrow I'm going to supplement low dosages all over the day, see how that will work out.. Maybe dosing it low improve thing or either my trial is over due to tolerance.

Edited by YoungS, 08 December 2013 - 04:01 AM.

[Olon]

Interesting to hear that indirect AMPA receptor potentiation by CAMKII http://www.ncbi.nlm....iracetam camkii plus direct AMPA receptor potentiation is also not free of tolerance. I have been wondering why my quercetin plus lamotrigine combination is the only thing I have ever taken that is free of every kind of tolerance at all (for over one and a half year now). Not easy to get information about quercetin with the ~8000 hits at Pubmed but I recently found out that it inhibits calcineurin (CAMKII's counterpart). I had known about CAMKII activation by lamotrigine for a while, so I now think these two effects are responsible for the synergy between those drugs. Unfortunately calicineurin inhibition causes memory and working memory deficits, so this combination is only interesting for severely ill people like those with chronic schizophrenia. My personal favourite for an adequate target is the phosphatase STEP (because it sits at the end of every glutamate receptor tolerance induction pathway it is involved in, like a spider in the net). Unfortunately the only one who does research just told me he's running out of money. [to the administrator: how can I fix the problem of having to write in one block?]

[YoungSchizo]

Sup Olon, it's been quite some time you are on this combination, what symptoms do you have left over?

[YoungSchizo]

Today someone brought Adonesine to my attention, I had a quick look into it, this drug seems like a potent anti-psychotic and cognitive decline reverser!!

Food for the readers:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21315743
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23870805
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22706302
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/62378
https://www.medify.c...tment=Adenosine
https://www.google.n....57752919,d.bGQ

Edited by YoungS, 08 December 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Olon]

what symptoms do you have left over?

The medication is emotionally damping and bad for memory and working memory. It takes some time to fall asleep at night and to get active in the morning. I think I can say my symptoms mainly come from the medication, not from the disease.

[Flex]

Paracetamol decreases the activity of the Anterior cingulate cortex, so the opposite of nefiracetam which activates it and a few other areals.

As far as I know is the Anterior cingulate cotex responible for ihibition.

Read this:
http://blogs.scienti...rug-is-tylenol/

[Flex]

Regarding adenosine:
Cordyceps sinensis act like adenosine

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20302371
..As an adenosine analogue, it is possible cordycepin goes through a similar metabolic pathway to that of adenosine....
..It is concluded that adenosine and cordycepin had short elimination half-lives and high rates of clearance and their biotransformation was suppressed by EHNA

[YoungSchizo]

Regarding adenosine:
Cordyceps sinensis act like adenosine

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20302371
..As an adenosine analogue, it is possible cordycepin goes through a similar metabolic pathway to that of adenosine....
..It is concluded that adenosine and cordycepin had short elimination half-lives and high rates of clearance and their biotransformation was suppressed by EHNA

(I haven't read the study's and findings regard to schizophrenia and Adenosine yet...)
(In case I want to give it a shot,) do you have a cheap reliable source (other than Alibaba.com and those expensive chemical companies) to purchase Cordycepin or the triphosphate version? Also, how to use it?

http://www.botanical...n/#.UqXfdvTuKyk
Cordycepin is a derivative of adenosine, differing by the absence of oxygen in the 3' position of its ribose part. (whatever the hell that means )

Edited by YoungS, 09 December 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Muad'Dib]

I bought Cordyceps from Badmonkeybotanicals.com i while ago.
They sell good quality stuff but are very slow, it took one whole month before it finally arrived.
I live in Europe.

[YoungSchizo]

Thanks for the source!! Do you use it and/or for which condition do you use it?
I've been reading some general stuff about Adenosine, it works just for 1 minute, side-effects are quite harsh but also last for one minute.. I'm a bit confused about how this could benefit for schizophrenics.. (I'm going to read those study's/papers asap)

[YoungSchizo]

Nevermind Adenosine.. FFS they haven't been able to put one Glutamate drug through the trials and there is a new hypothesis; Adenosine.. Cell-therapy to specific regions of the brain, drugs that have to developed and approved, I'll come back at Adenosine in 15 years, goddamn BS, got excited for nothing.

Though @ Muad'Dib, I'm still curious what pure Adenosine in Cordyceps-powder does for you..?

[Flex]

Just a Btw advice:
http://now.uiowa.edu...a-affects-brain

You should be carefull regarding Anti-psychotics, if You use them at all.

[YoungSchizo]

Yup I know, in another thread I already said this, had been using Zyprexa for 7/8 years, got permanent akathisia and hormonal imbalance from it (I think I suffer from hypothyroidism, going to let it checked out), last 3 years I couldn't gain muscle's, if I get the cold it takes 4 weeks to recover, stomach infection, eczema last year, this year Alopecia Barbae, things that I never had before.. I think in general those chemical BS dopamine anti-psychotic are bad for the immune-system. (And the fact Zyprexa didn't improve my symptoms, it just makes you numb and stupid so someone's symptoms do not aggravate).

Update on Nefiracetam:
I still take it at night couple of hours before going to bed, I literally fall a sleep while watching TV and my sleep is so deep it's awesome! Usually I wake up at least once a night, with Nefi, the past 4 days I didn't wake up once. I use 1,5mg Rivo and 30mg Mirta, this does not cause sedation but this accounts for a good night sleep, Nefi is so sedating when it wears off, it's a great adjunct. However, I don't notice anything else from Nefi anymore.

[Muad'Dib]

I found a interesting paper about Sodium nitroprusside as treatment for both negative and posietive symptoms of Schizophrenia.

http://jornal.fmrp.u...AMA-Jaime-1.pdf

[YoungSchizo]

It's indeed interesting, however, if they gonna use this in psychiatry it has to go through the 3 phases of trials, that's at least 5-8 years before it will be practically used. The Protein approach to schizophrenia seems to be a very promising treatment in the future, by that time I'm fucking old ffs!

Sooo, my question remains, do you use Cordyceps/Adenosine and how is your experience on it..??

Edited by YoungS, 10 December 2013 - 07:26 PM.

[Muad'Dib]

I bought Cordyceps for its cAMP increasing effect but found out later that it abolish Forskolin activation of cAMP.

I Have not used it more than a couple of times but i will run a trial soon to assess if it has any benefits.

[YoungSchizo]

If you have schizophrenia, depression and/or cognitive problems or whatsoever let us know it will work out for ya..

[YoungSchizo]

My last update on Nefiracetam:
Today I divided my dosages over 3 times a day, 4-6 scoops. Like some people mentioned before Nefiracetam somewhat stops mental chatter, that's positive, I lose track of time and it gives me a "I don't care what's happening" kinda attitude, even though this is a good thing for me (I'm quite stressful lately) it's also a bit annoying and makes you feel emotionally numb (i.o.w. it does not relieve me of the stress, it just masks it). As far as cognition, other than enhancing focus/concentration it does not work for cognition, to test this I tried to perform in a IQ test, halfway through I decided to stop because I was very slow in answering questions because I had a very hard time solving it. The mood improving properties are gone, tolerance perhaps.. If Nefiracetam decreases positive symptoms, I don't think so, I think, just like current anti-psychotic, it just slows down the process of it, because of the short half-life of Nefi this sucks and makes Nefi not quite suitable as an anti-psychotic (in the long-term).

Clearance of thoughts and being more social is mood/stress related I guess..

It's also hard to distinguish if it causes tolerance or not, some days I really felt like I took Nefi, other days I only felt tired when it wears off..

After day one I did not have any side-effects in my joints and muscle's again, however, everyday I end up with a headache from Nefi even though I take enough Choline.

Conclusion: Unfortunately, Nefi is not the kind of chemical I want/need daily! I bought only a sample of Nefi and I think I'm just gonna keep it for days that I'm not stressed and feel happy, Nefi is great for recreational use and as adjunct to Mirta and Rivo for a very deep night sleep!

Edited by YoungS, 12 December 2013 - 02:18 AM.

[mono]

I just tried phenylpiracetam, had a psychotic break and almost had a bloody heart attack. Be careful!

[YoungSchizo]

I just tried phenylpiracetam, had a psychotic break and almost had a bloody heart attack. Be careful!

That sucks, I'm sorry to hear m8! What's the difference between Phenylpira and Piracetam?

[jroseland]

Seems like a pretty limited upside on Nefiracetam. I've yet to ascertain any good reason to take it....

[YoungSchizo]

Seems like a pretty limited upside on Nefiracetam. I've yet to ascertain any good reason to take it....

Reviving this thread made me "re-live" my experience/momemts with nefiracetam. Thanks (I guess)

Edited by YoungSchizo, 14 January 2017 - 11:56 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I love reading your posts, YoungSchizo. I feel that you and I think (or you used to think) similarly with regards to psychiatry, but maybe it's ignorance of psychiatry. There's much to learn from your experiences. Too bad fiddling with drugs to find a working disease model can't change the dna for the better