[quote name='cryonicsculture' timestamp='1388955944' post='634393']
Hi Innocent,
Please don't confuse digital storage and existence w/ life. Digital lives are over hyped and your existence as an AI isn't you. You are dead, and a copy of you has replaced you. If your best friend wants to go get some drinks, you'll be... Personally I wouldn't mind having a digital copy of me around to live in tandem with, in fact I see it as a benefit, but digital existence alone is giving up your physical life when future technologies will be able to make virtually any physical form a possibility.
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What is a you?
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For efficiency of space and material, and sustainability we must store the smallest amount of us necessary
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which is?
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and print the rest of us
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which is precisely?
I agree the self is an unknown @ present.
So is the past.
The gamble is betting that technology (ie mathematics shaping the environment) is going to get much better.I think a map of deceased people is obviously not that person. But using that map to reconstruct from - a map of sufficient detail - the dead could be reconstituted.
To argue that couldn't happen is illogical, since that would mean some part of human is outside man's science, yet we can use man's science to cryo-preserve it!!!
Argument to the future is banned in philosophy, since it can not be proven true.
However as futurists, we allow the belief that technology will progress, since it always has in mankind's history.
It is a fundamental belief, a religion, and optimism and can not be used in debate as a truth, since the observed trend may break for many reasons eg by an extinction.
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when the tech becomes available. Scanning will come in handy when we wish to determine the best shape body to print for you, essentially allowing you to design your body like you were using DAZ Studio and a 3D model of Michael or Victoria Ver. XX that allows for internal biology options etc. The digital existence during this phase would also be responsible for helping bring the cryonicist up to speed on the future or undertake other efforts and will receive the physical experience through cyberization.
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O I see.
I hadn't thought about digital existence as a life form! I gather Frank Tipler holds it existence and some that that entire universe is a hologram eg a Bostrom's Simulation.
I too waive simulations and mean a reconstruction by data-mining the past as a likely scenario, good enough to micro-robot build any person and memories.
It looks easier when you have frozen bodies to work from, but the size of calculation, though daunting, is an argument of scale.
What limit of archaeology?
What limit on mathematics?
But cryonic preservation of your data is sensible.
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Robotizing surgery may work, I don't know much about it, but I know there are alot of people who don't want to be the first or we could have had robot surgery 20-30 years ago
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I know people who've had it. Fear of going first first isn't a valid argument in this context!
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I think there are some good opportunities for cryonics in crowdfunding if we can build a crowd. If we get 1000 from the people ahead of time, or even 2000, the money could go to developing the technology.
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If you got a pledge of $1,000 conditional on getting 1 million people pledged,
and followed with a dramatic social networked campaign,
I think people would do it, but I haven't market surveyed this,
It could however be determined by a sampling survey[quote]
The volunteerism model has survived for quite some time and is responsible for the highest price cryonics company (at time of founding) become the most inexpensive for whole body at present.
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OWCH!
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The Cryonics Institute has always charged $28000 for full body. When they were founded, that was $218,000 and they've mostly kept up with the tech, they just need to make neuro available IMHO. Alcor is currently charging $200,000 but was charging far less than CI when they were founded. Admittedly, you get a Cardiothoracic Surgeon at Alcor vs a Funeral Director (?) at CI, but either can do the operation IMO and from what I understand, some Cardiothoracic Surgeons may work probono for Alcor in which case Alcor can use the money for sustainability and outreach.
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I agree with moving closer and having more local storage
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Yup strategy.
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, but we have to achieve efficiency of scale at all of these places or it's going to get more expensive.
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THat's a matter of organisation see suntzu.
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Real Estate is cheap in the vicinity of both cryonics providers, so we just need to create jobs in these areas for cryonicists and this will improve the quality of cryopreservations across the board.
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There is POTS opf money about and stuff is tumbling in price. Land that is chepa can be irrigated.
Necessary land can be built out of the seas.
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In order to sue the States for not providing cryonics, we have to develop the tech to make it work. We're getting closer and will get there.
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You'd think so, but proof of concept is enough.
ie prove iotls is unsceintific to beleive that resurrection (recovery) is impossible: if something is not impossible, it can only mean it is possible.
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There are currently procedures you can follow at home to be ready if someone you trust is with you. There are a handful of supplements you can take and a chest thumper that can be used on you
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in conjunction with icing your head and body in a bathtub until
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You must use ad hominems in debate.
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suspended animation or another group gets to you. If certain tech works out, it may make home cryonics more possible, but will add additional expense though if the tech was dropped off on site for those in imminent need, that would help alot.
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Yup this is good.
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This is even a possibility right now if more funeral directors and hospitals started offering cryopreservation procedures.
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I see.
Most enlightening - thanks.