101 replies to this topic

[agwoodliffe]

I've also checked out the Examine.com page as you recommended, and strangely enough they have no comment on the Mitochondrial Complex I issue, although they did mention possible Liver toxicity at higher (but not infeasible) consumption doses. And of course, the potential testicular toxicity as already mentioned.

It's a real shame, because as I mentioned in a post I made long ago, Psoralea Corylifolia is one of the most fascinating herbs in terms of affecting neurotransmitters. It has a mixture of MAO-inbiting and NET/DAT inhibiting properties. That's why I hope to god that I'm wrong, and that it is perfectly safe to take.

Edited by agwoodliffe, 27 January 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[Area-1255]

Bump to this amazing thread, google is a fine friend. Flowering Quince (FQ) seems to be a potent DAT inhibitor as well. Think this is mentioned, it's also known as "Mu Gua".

[calm--]

Hi Bateau, thanks for the amazing post. I bought Solaray Jiaogulan, and just tried it this morning.

 

I've been feeling depressed for a couple years, and while piracetam and ciltep have helped a lot, I found that they are not something that I can take everyday. So I've stop taking them for about a week, and I'm back being depressed.

 

So this morning, before taking jiaogulan, I'm feeling depressed like usual, and groggy because I didn't have a good sleep. After 1 cap Solaray Jiaogulan, I felt a bit weird for a couple minutes. But 30 minutes after taking it, I start to feel some mood and motivation improvement. I start to feel more cheerful, motivated and social. It's not spectacular or euphoric like the first time I took tyrosine, but it's also zero negative side-effects. It feels like I'm being "normal" again.

 

Are you still taking it? Do you take it everyday? I found that dopamine precursors like tyrosine is not something that I can take everyday. Negative side-effects like anxiety and irritability will show up after prolong use. Do you find it to be the case with jiaogulan?

[calm--]

I took another capsule before lunch, and it was pretty much the same. It gave me some mood and energy boost, but also making me weird. This time the weirdness are stronger and lasted longer. The 2nd capsule is counter-productive and felt too much. I'm gonna stick with 1 capsule per day.

[GoingPrimal]

So does anyone here have experience with any of these herbs? I know agwoodliffe has used Psoralea, anyone else? 

 

I've used catuaba before, does seem to be dopaminergic but I was using it more so as a libido enhancing agent. Been using Gynostemma for a while now for multiple reasons, one of which is to restore/protect dopamine neurons, and while this is a highly unscientific statement, it seems to be doing a great job, combined with other protocols. 

 

I've got a bunch of jatamansi laying around but it one seriously funky tasting herb, so I haven't experimented with it properly. Uncaria and chinese skullcap are in a few TCM herbal formulas I've used but can't pin any effects to just those herbs. Anyone have experience with the more exotic herbs here?

[calm--]

I tried catuaba twice when taking it with ciltep. I took the Solaray's brand which contains 465 mg. 465 mg catuaba felt stronger than 500 mg tyrosine. Too strong for me.

 

First time I took it, I felt a good mood and motivation boost 1 hour after taking it. I'm being speedy, motivated but anxious. It felt too strong.

 

Second time, a month later, I didnt get the mood boost. Only anxiety and irritability. It was a bad day.

[GoingPrimal]

Compound in TCM herb Polygala protects dopamine neurons. Been using Polygala, along with Ablizzia, for their "shen" promoting effects. A shen-boosting herb in TCM is comparable to something that is cognitive-enhancing, anxiolytic and/or anti-depressive.

 

 

Tenuigenin protects dopaminergic neurons from inflammation-mediated damage induced by the lipopolysaccharide.

 

[JellyRev]

I've been taking some Jiaogulan as well. It's nothing amazing, but I do like it. seems similar to DLPA for me. 

 

L-tyrosine and NALT give me an odd uneasiness.  

[calm--]

Third day into jiaogulan. I dont feel the positives anymore on the second and third day.

[GoingPrimal]

I'm not sure I've ever really "felt" jiaogulan - it may help me be less fatigued at the end of the day or after a workout, but it's never been one of those eye-opening herbs. I'm using it in tea form, not a pill or an extract.

[aribadabar]

eye-opening herbs

 Which were those for you?

[GoingPrimal]

Not many.

 

The first few times using maca I had a ton of energy and was ravenously horny, which quickly faded - I feel nothing from it now. Epimedium is definitely noticeable in the libido department, though tolerance will build. Ashwagandha can be calming to the point of sedating depending on the dose. Cordyceps and rhodiola are very noticeable but only in terms of enhancing endurance. Had great results from polygala and albizzia flower in combination, did a wonderful job lifting my mood. But most other herbs I feel almost nothing from - astragalus, reishi, ginseng, nettles, eleuthero, etc. To feel them isn't the point in my mind, as long as they are exerting their beneficial effects.

[Revitalize]

But taking a Dopamine reuptake inhibitor would long term downregulate the dopamine receptors in the brain right? So if i want to upregulate dopamine even after i quit taking the supplements, what is the way to go except Jiaogulan and CDP Choline? Are there any other nootropics that does this?

[ceridwen]

PRL-8-53?

[Ark]

And this http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17599020

[deeptrance]

But taking a Dopamine reuptake inhibitor would long term downregulate the dopamine receptors in the brain right? So if i want to upregulate dopamine even after i quit taking the supplements, what is the way to go except Jiaogulan and CDP Choline? Are there any other nootropics that does this?

 

Supposedly memantine is also useful in this regard, if I'm interpreting its effects correctly. Exercise is probably the safest and most reliable method, however.

[stanfordlee]

Very informative, will exam them carefully

[calm--]

Is DRI something that can be taken daily? I just gave Catuaba another try. Day 1-2 was nice. Starting day 3, I became over-stimulated, jittery, anxious and slightly irritable. Have to stop after a couple days. I only took 1 cap 465 mg per day.

Edited by calm--, 12 August 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[Flex]

Altough I´ve mentioned this else where, here is it again for completions sake:

 

Effect of Thunbergia laurifolia extract on extracellular dopamine level in rat nucleus accumbens.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23724461

 

aka Rang Jued

 

If I´m not mistaken, it works via Potassium/Kalium channels.

 

My personal experience was mixed.

In 2012 before my depression, 2-3 pills of 240mg didn´t do much, exept for beeing a bit dull afterwards.

In 2015 2 pills made me genuine speedy and manic for 1-2 hours ! but I was dull for 1 Day afterwards. I dont think it was damage related just maybe mechanism related

However after I got PSSD it didnt do much like in 2012.

 

Edited by Flex, 02 February 2016 - 09:15 PM.

[BobbyDick]

Selegiline + PEA = Amphetamine. PEA is very potent noradrenalin dopamine releasing agent.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

 

 

• CDP choline will indirectly increase dopamine activity
• Selegeline/Rasagiline
• Nicotine
• Modafinil

Dopamine topic on examine.com: https://examine.com/topics/Dopamine/

 

 

[Baten]

I would not recommend nicotine or modafinil in this context honestly. They won't help dopamine imo.

[Sleepdealer]

 

I would not recommend nicotine or modafinil in this context honestly. They won't help dopamine imo.

 

Modafinil is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor though. Whatever the context, dopamine has always it's prime target.

[Flex]

Selegiline + PEA = Amphetamine. PEA is very potent noradrenalin dopamine releasing agent.

 

Yes and therefore everyone should be cautious about the dosage.

Otherwise You are ready for the emergency room or worse !

 

Do allways idiotic low doses at the beginning because how would You increase the metabolism of PEA when You´ve inhibited it irreversible ? i.e. --> Emergency
 

[BobbyDick]

Indeed. If anyone is interested should get more informations.

[normalizing]

i did a PEA + peperine because i read this does some serious stimulation and i believe i experienced what is commonly reffered to as "serotonin syndrome" even though separely none of them really is a serotonin inhibitor as far as i know. regardless, in combo they did cause something similar and it sucked ass.

[BobbyDick]

Only selegiline is potent enough to block iMAO-B that PEA will work.

[Doc Psychoillogical]

Some more interesting info about DA:\

 

Interactions between dopamine and GABA in the control of ambulatory activity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9013386

...These data show that GABAergic drugs had a reduced effect after stimulation of dopaminergic neurotransmission. On the other hand, when dopamine D1 receptors were blocked, nonselective GABA agonists and the GABAB agonist baclofen were potentiated. This was not the case for the GABAA agonist THIP, suggesting that the GABAA receptor is of slight importance for the interactions between GABA and dopamine in the control of ambulatory activity. No potentiation of GABAergic agonists was obtained after treatment with a dopamine D2 antagonist.

 

Carvacrol: from ancient flavoring to neuromodulatory agent.

Zotti M1, Colaianna M, Morgese MG, Tucci P, Schiavone S, Avato P, Trabace L.

Author information

Abstract

Oregano and thyme essential oils are used for therapeutic, aromatic and gastronomic purposes due to their richness in active substances, like carvacrol; however, the effects of the latter on the central nervous system have been poorly investigated. The aim of our study was to define the effects of carvacrol on brain neurochemistry and behavioural outcome in rats. Biogenic amine content in the prefrontal cortex and hippocampus after chronic or acute oral carvacrol administration was measured. Animals were assessed by a forced swimming test. Carvacrol, administered for seven consecutive days (12.5 mg/kg p.o.), was able to increase dopamine and serotonin levels in the prefrontal cortex and hippocampus. When single doses were used (150 and 450 mg/kg p.o.), dopamine content was increased in the prefrontal cortex at both dose levels. On the contrary, a significant dopamine reduction in hippocampus of animals treated with 450 mg/kg of carvacrol was found. Acute carvacrol administration only significantly reduced serotonin content in either the prefrontal cortex or in the hippocampus at the highest dose. Moreover, acute carvacrol was ineffective in producing changes in the forced swimming test. Our data suggest that carvacrol is a brain-active molecule that clearly influences neuronal activity through modulation of neurotransmitters. If regularly ingested in low concentrations, it might determine feelings of well-being and could possibly have positive reinforcer effects.

PMID: 23708230 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 

 

GETTING TO THE POINT:

By Dosing a GABAergic(B4Sleep/Night)

Then Dose a Dopaminergic(Morning/Day)(Carvacrol/others perviously suggested)

MIGHT be used as a desensitizing then expressive dopamine regimen,possibly, thoughts?

 

Edited by Mr. Psychillogical, 07 February 2016 - 09:39 PM.

[normalizing]

those essential oils were administered orally? from what i know, essential oils can be quite toxic to just dose orally....

[ron45]

 

You can also add these
- Sulbutiamine
- PEA
- PS
- MAOIs also can elicit a dopaminergic response, see selegiline and rasagiline

Greetings,

I have learned about 3 EXTREMELY important ones from you're list, as with any substances they can just be controled, but these are not. THANK YOU VERY VERY VERY MUCH. Thank You .

May I please ask you, which ones are the best and where should I buy selegiline (which online shop?)

Thank You

 

 Seleiline.tiff   24.13KB   6 downloads

 

65 dollars including shipping, credit cards yes first order takes a while because it comes from India. Totall reliable arrives in regular mail.

 

Ron