29 replies to this topic

[Constantine Vorobyoff]

I've tried everything. They help but not too much. Still I prefer taking them, it's better than nothing. Stimulants make your system down-regulate, as much as you give, as much will be taken back, nootropics as well (to a milder extent due to milder primary effect). How boring, muchachas.

[Sholrak]

WHat's everything? Could you put more detail on what have you used?

[Constantine Vorobyoff]

Most of nootropics that are posted on Wikipedia and stimulants. Antioxidants. What else is out there? Nothing.

[Multicultural Harmony]

Can partially agree. Nothing miraculous, they did not turn me into a genius and sucked much cash from my slender wallet, lol. From all the crap substances I've tried I have had at best about a 90% failure rate. Much of what works well for me I would least expect, oddballs like sodium butyrate seem to improve gut health /regulation and over time this leads to an improvement in overall feeling of wellbeing/ improved immunity. One of my favorite GI supplements, http://www.luckyvita...erly-omega-plex
found it by accident while doing one of my strange experiments, combining it with aspirin in an attempt to reactivate latent EBV, which didn't work but the supplement itself did in terms of health benefit.

I've only gotten mild improvements in working memory, mildy reduced inflammation/pain levels and some improvement in immune function (don't get sick nearly as often or severely as I once did). However, on the mood-enhancement and motivational front drugs have vastly improved (or at least I like to think recovered) from where I was at before which was chronic depression.

Piracetam had the annoying effect of remembering irrelevant details from 2 decades earlier and at distracting moments, but otherwise had a noticeable mood flattening effect. For me most 'nootropics' seem to adversely effect mood. I don't take any racetams but have tried a handful of them to know they aren't for me.

Concerning antioxidants I have learned from experience that not all are created equally. Imo ascorbic acid is useless for most people barring certain health conditions. I DO take stuff like D3 though, which oddly enough is at least noticeable in effect. I am usually not on more than 10 substances at once, and I don't use the kitchen sink approach and don't bother with multivitamins which rarely yield anything noticeable and usually amount to extra bucks wasted and an extra pill to swallow. I only take what 'work's too. If I don't feel any benefit from something I stop taking it and usually never bother with it again.

Also, the number 1 cognitive enhancer is by far daily moderate but intense aerobic exericise, that is if your health and immune system can handle it.

Edited by Pitolisant, 19 December 2013 - 02:06 AM.

[arboles]

Nootropics are in their infancy. maybe a few hundred years in the future it will be better.

[mission780]

If you don't mind taking psychedelic drugs (LSD, shrooms, cannabis) in very low doses then you've just found real and almost perfect nootropics.

[Constantine Vorobyoff]

Good point. Never tried anything of that for real. How do psychodelics help? Though I have a few clues what to expect.

[mission780]

Good point. Never tried anything of that for real. How do psychodelics help? Though I have a few clues what to expect.

The main nootropic effects of psychedelics are:
-Enhancement of cognition and perception.
-Faster thinking, more associations, more creativity, out of the box thinking.
-Improved mood and increased energy.
Can one ask for more?:-)

I'd recommend you start reading these three threads:
http://www.longecity...as-a-nootropic/
http://www.bluelight...eciation-Thread
http://www.longecity...as-a-nootropic/

Unfortunately, there is one big problem with psychedelics as nootropics and it is their high tolerance. It means you cannot really take them daily (apart from marijuana, but marijuana is much different - not so clear-headed as LSD, but still can be helpful for creativity, verbal and written skills, mood. In general I would say marijuana is a good nootropic for creative work and LSD/shrooms for analytical as well as creative stuff).

What nootropic effects do you look for?

Edited by mission780, 19 December 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[ratzynal]

Try a little Ketamine (pure-pharmaceutical grade) and you won't chase the grail or tilt at windmills anymore.

[mission780]

Try a little Ketamine (pure-pharmaceutical grade) and you won't chase the grail or tilt at windmills anymore.

I was considering Ketamine, but I became discouraged after I read it's very easy to get addicted to it.

Anyway, I am interested what the main nootropic effects of Ketamine (in low doses) are?
What about its tolerance? Would you be possible to take it even daily (in low doses for nootropic effects only)?

Edited by mission780, 19 December 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[ratzynal]

Try a little Ketamine (pure-pharmaceutical grade) and you won't chase the grail or tilt at windmills anymore.

I was considering Ketamine, but I became discouraged after I read it's very easy to get addicted to it.

Anyway, I am interested what the main nootropic effects of Ketamine (in low doses) are?
What about its tolerance? Would you be possible to take it even daily (in low doses for nootropic effects only)?

OK, first, how old are you?
Second, Ketamine is not classified as a Nootropic, but neither is getting a promotion, sleeping with the hottest girl in the office/school etc. However, in my experience, getting a promotion is better than any Nootropic. Ketamine has the same effect for me as sleeping with the hottest girl, but it is not something to be trifled with.

[mission780]

Try a little Ketamine (pure-pharmaceutical grade) and you won't chase the grail or tilt at windmills anymore.

I was considering Ketamine, but I became discouraged after I read it's very easy to get addicted to it.

Anyway, I am interested what the main nootropic effects of Ketamine (in low doses) are?
What about its tolerance? Would you be possible to take it even daily (in low doses for nootropic effects only)?

OK, first, how old are you?
Second, Ketamine is not classified as a Nootropic, but neither is getting a promotion, sleeping with the hottest girl in the office/school etc. However, in my experience, getting a promotion is better than any Nootropic. Ketamine has the same effect for me as sleeping with the hottest girl, but it is not something to be trifled with.

I am over 30. Why does my age matter?

Neither is LSD/shrooms/cannabis classified as nootropics. Still they expose distinct nootropic effects and they are the biggest cognition/perception enhancers.

What exact effect does sleeping with the hottest girl have to you then? Your description is very vague at the moment.

[Multicultural Harmony]

If you don't mind taking psychedelic drugs (LSD, shrooms, cannabis) in very low doses then you've just found real and almost perfect nootropics.

LoL. I can imagine it now. Someone takes the above advice then starts his own cult.

[Simon Silver]

I've also tried about everything currently available except for colouracetam and cerebrolysin. I find that only acetylcholinesterace inhibitors, huperzine specifically, and phenylpiracetam seem to be worth the effort. The short duration of most others is a major drawback, and only these two provide any wakefulness or stimulation with them. CDP-choline has a nice boost as well. These have high blood pressure issues when combined altogether though.

Lions mane mushroom and Longan berries raise NGF and BDNF respectively which has noticeable effects in the dietary category. Noopept works, but only in combination with other things in my experience. If you dose high enough on the first three I listed above theres no way you won't feel prominant noticeable enhancement.

[Constantine Vorobyoff]

Hyperzine and others are meh, I don't get the hang of it. Phenylpiracetam (phenotropil) is a pure stimulator. Caffeine will act somewhat alike. Colouracetam, don't even need to bother, will be like a racetam.

[Constantine Vorobyoff]

What is the most interesting is how to make the brain regenerate faster so you can feed her more load. There is no problem of making it work real tough for a day or two with the help of stimulators or even will, but there is no chance of sustaining a high load for a couple of weeks, it becomes weary and weak.

[ratzynal]

Try a little Ketamine (pure-pharmaceutical grade) and you won't chase the grail or tilt at windmills anymore.

I was considering Ketamine, but I became discouraged after I read it's very easy to get addicted to it.

Anyway, I am interested what the main nootropic effects of Ketamine (in low doses) are?
What about its tolerance? Would you be possible to take it even daily (in low doses for nootropic effects only)?

OK, first, how old are you?
Second, Ketamine is not classified as a Nootropic, but neither is getting a promotion, sleeping with the hottest girl in the office/school etc. However, in my experience, getting a promotion is better than any Nootropic. Ketamine has the same effect for me as sleeping with the hottest girl, but it is not something to be trifled with.

I am over 30. Why does my age matter?



Neither is LSD/shrooms/cannabis classified as nootropics. Still they expose distinct nootropic effects and they are the biggest cognition/perception enhancers.

What exact effect does sleeping with the hottest girl have to you then? Your description is very vague at the moment.

Asked your age out of prudence.

My description is vague because this is the kind of thing that really needn't be explained, but we have been misled and feminization is killing us. I wasted a lot of time and money in my youth looking for the magic pill. I was blinded by science. Now, I feel quite lucky.

Donald Trump is not surfing the net looking for "cognitive enhancement". He doesn't care. Many people don't like him, blah blah blah. I think he is a blowhard, but he doesn't care what I think.

Sleeping with the hottest girl boosts your testosterone and a host of other factors necessary for good health/cognition.

Inducing depression is easy--Social defeat stress.

The connections between alpha and testosterone are all over the literature. Connections between exercise and BDNF are well documented.

There is a lot of recent research into BDNF and cognitive health.... Omega-3 restores BDNF...

One dose of Ketamine, will dramatically increase BDNF, consequently enhancing cognition. Then start seriously doing HIIT. Then do some more research, keep working out and you will be golden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNsIiq-5354

We moderns get overly involved in minutiae. This post is curt, but well intended.

:edited for lack of humility/compassion

Edited by ratzynal, 20 December 2013 - 12:29 AM.

[Sholrak]

Most of nootropics that are posted on Wikipedia and stimulants. Antioxidants. What else is out there? Nothing.

So, almost a hundred compounds and nothing really helps you? What's your goal? Psychiatric? Study? Job? Art? Social? Mood? Instant forever happiness?

[formergenius]

They do indeed, but there are the new kids on the block which are relatively unexplored: NSI-189, JDTic, NRX-1074.. bet I forgot a few, but these show much more promise than current nootropics. On paper that is. Also, there's the matter of what baseline you are trying to improve. If you're functioning properly already, that leaves less room for improvement. Contrasting that, someone with moderate to severe cognitive deficits may experience a world of difference as a result of relativity, provided they find the appropriate substance to aid them. This seems to be the case with most reviews; people with issues tend to experience more benefits than those just seeking for that extra elusive NZT edge, excluding the anomaly of the occasional raving review. Or so it appears to me. Other than that I must agree that indeed; most nootropics don't even scratch the surface of what I'd like to see.

Edited by formergenius, 20 December 2013 - 01:07 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

Good point. Never tried anything of that for real. How do psychodelics help? Though I have a few clues what to expect.

Don't listen to him. People who reccomend psychadelics and drugs for "enchancement" should be autobanned here. All they can do is fuck up your brain.

[Multicultural Harmony]

Good point. Never tried anything of that for real. How do psychodelics help? Though I have a few clues what to expect.

Don't listen to him. People who reccomend psychadelics and drugs for "enchancement" should be autobanned here. All they can do is fuck up your brain.

Everything is toxic to someone in the right amount. Deprenyl, memantine to name a few. Heck, there's a guy on another forum that practically had his own memantine cult for awhile. Memantine induced psychosis is like being stuck in the movie The Truman Show, you will never look at your surroundings the same way again. Could that be described as 'brain enhancing'? LOL. No.

There was once a guy that triggered his psychosis with only tiny amounts of DMT.

But I have to agree, encouraging use of potentially pro-psychotic substances should be discouraged.

Edited by Pitolisant, 20 December 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

Good point. Never tried anything of that for real. How do psychodelics help? Though I have a few clues what to expect.

Don't listen to him. People who reccomend psychadelics and drugs for "enchancement" should be autobanned here. All they can do is fuck up your brain.

Everything is toxic to someone in the right amount. Deprenyl, memantine to name a few. Heck, there's a guy on another forum that practically had his own memantine cult for awhile. Memantine induced psychosis is like being stuck in the movie The Truman Show, you will never look at your surroundings the same way again. Could that be described as 'brain enhancing'? LOL. No.

There was once a guy that triggered his psychosis with only tiny amounts of DMT.

But I have to agree, encouraging use of potentially pro-psychotic substances should be discouraged.

Dude, I've been through 2 or 3 self induced psychotic states because of all this research. First time was from 4-aco-dmt, second time was a gradual onset when I was taking deprenyl and then started ritalin doses. At the time I had irrational paranoia. I'd call paranoia a quazi-psychotic state. There must be some imbalance between the dopamine-glutamate system. The first experience was hell, second was worse because you are not aware that you are becoming irrational, your thoughts seem just as rational as they were before because you are constantly rationalizing them to yourself. Now, the last incident was a panic attack brought on by consuming somewhere like 2g of potent cannabis. I was really out of it. I was afraid for myself and called 911. They treated me with lorazapam and told me to stick with Sertraline. I've experimented with myself considerably and would advise anyone to take an objective look at the possible benefits of consuming X substance. Don't just look at the positives. That is just bias.

Fortunately, I don't hear voices or see things that aren't there. Though I do have anxiety attacks sometimes. I'm going back to basics and limiting my core stack to:

Bacopa (It's good for just being smooth and steady)
Chinese Skullcap (going to trial this, everything point to positive effects)
Jiaogulan (tea)
ALCAR (sometimes, can be anxiogenic)
BPAP (very good effects, very positive on mood and motivation)
I'd like to add Selegiline; but, I don't need that much extra dopamine at this age and the neuroprotective effects can be achieved via other methods.

From the above I'll be adding once in a while some group buy chems. Like ISRIB or 7,8-dihydroxyflavone.

I see no point in releasing agents or agonists. They're unsustainable in the long run and alter your behavior and personality. For example, Adderall. It's only something I will save for important occasions. I'f Adrafinil works I might use it instead for sustained attention. The future is bright and I don't want to dim myself with reckless self experimentation anymore. All I can count on now is being steady, smooth, and consistent. The jumps I get from DRI/A's are not worth it if you look long term along with persistently high dopamine levels all over the brain. Personally, I think Strattera might be a good compound for ADD. People need to be more patient, it's not like Ritalin or Adderall that drops the hammer down and makes you do shit. There are also promising things out there like Compound 2 from 3ArmLampscooter's thread. Worth exploring further.

In the long run what are we all looking for? IMHO it is two-fold:

1. Increasing the amount of information we can process in any given amount of time, thereby increasing out processing speed and arriving at conclusions and realizations faster. Such as being in a state where you life is in threat and your perception of time slows down. All I wonder if this is possible to achieve and be sustainable. I doubt we could alter ourselves beyond our organic programming with synthetic compounds in these terms. It would be great to sit down and have an hour to go over material and yet make it feel like it was 3 hours. The converse is a state of flow where you feel like 3 hours passed by as if 1h. That might have to do. Better a state of flow than nothing.

2. Having your memory greatly increased. Here is a typical memory curve:

Now, here is the same memory curve for reviewing and re-doing material:

I'm sure compounds can be made to make the slope's of the intial curve less negative (that is, as close to zero as possible). I'm hoping ISRIB might hold promise in this regard.




Right now it's mostly hit or miss. Some things work really well for some, while producing little to no effect for others. Is this placebo? I don't have enough information to give an answer to that. There is evidence Piracetam does work. Will it ever be enough to satisfy our insatiable desire's? I doubt we would stop on NZT. There is always more to be wanted or desired. . .

[mission780]

Try a little Ketamine (pure-pharmaceutical grade) and you won't chase the grail or tilt at windmills anymore.

My description is vague because this is the kind of thing that really needn't be explained, but we have been misled and feminization is killing us. I wasted a lot of time and money in my youth looking for the magic pill. I was blinded by science. Now, I feel quite lucky.

Donald Trump is not surfing the net looking for "cognitive enhancement". He doesn't care. Many people don't like him, blah blah blah. I think he is a blowhard, but he doesn't care what I think.

Sleeping with the hottest girl boosts your testosterone and a host of other factors necessary for good health/cognition.

Inducing depression is easy--Social defeat stress.

The connections between alpha and testosterone are all over the literature. Connections between exercise and BDNF are well documented.

There is a lot of recent research into BDNF and cognitive health.... Omega-3 restores BDNF...

One dose of Ketamine, will dramatically increase BDNF, consequently enhancing cognition. Then start seriously doing HIIT. Then do some more research, keep working out and you will be golden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNsIiq-5354

We moderns get overly involved in minutiae. This post is curt, but well intended.

:edited for lack of humility/compassion

Interesting research about Ketamine. Thanks for the video!

As I understand K is most helpful in depressive states and in such cases it can also improve cognition.

[Sholrak]

Good point. Never tried anything of that for real. How do psychodelics help? Though I have a few clues what to expect.

Don't listen to him. People who reccomend psychadelics and drugs for "enchancement" should be autobanned here. All they can do is fuck up your brain.

Everything is toxic to someone in the right amount. Deprenyl, memantine to name a few. Heck, there's a guy on another forum that practically had his own memantine cult for awhile. Memantine induced psychosis is like being stuck in the movie The Truman Show, you will never look at your surroundings the same way again. Could that be described as 'brain enhancing'? LOL. No.

There was once a guy that triggered his psychosis with only tiny amounts of DMT.

But I have to agree, encouraging use of potentially pro-psychotic substances should be discouraged.

Dude, I've been through 2 or 3 self induced psychotic states because of all this research. First time was from 4-aco-dmt, second time was a gradual onset when I was taking deprenyl and then started ritalin doses. At the time I had irrational paranoia. I'd call paranoia a quazi-psychotic state. There must be some imbalance between the dopamine-glutamate system. The first experience was hell, second was worse because you are not aware that you are becoming irrational, your thoughts seem just as rational as they were before because you are constantly rationalizing them to yourself. Now, the last incident was a panic attack brought on by consuming somewhere like 2g of potent cannabis. I was really out of it. I was afraid for myself and called 911. They treated me with lorazapam and told me to stick with Sertraline. I've experimented with myself considerably and would advise anyone to take an objective look at the possible benefits of consuming X substance. Don't just look at the positives. That is just bias.

Fortunately, I don't hear voices or see things that aren't there. Though I do have anxiety attacks sometimes. I'm going back to basics and limiting my core stack to:

Bacopa (It's good for just being smooth and steady)
Chinese Skullcap (going to trial this, everything point to positive effects)
Jiaogulan (tea)
ALCAR (sometimes, can be anxiogenic)
BPAP (very good effects, very positive on mood and motivation)
I'd like to add Selegiline; but, I don't need that much extra dopamine at this age and the neuroprotective effects can be achieved via other methods.

From the above I'll be adding once in a while some group buy chems. Like ISRIB or 7,8-dihydroxyflavone.

I see no point in releasing agents or agonists. They're unsustainable in the long run and alter your behavior and personality. For example, Adderall. It's only something I will save for important occasions. I'f Adrafinil works I might use it instead for sustained attention. The future is bright and I don't want to dim myself with reckless self experimentation anymore. All I can count on now is being steady, smooth, and consistent. The jumps I get from DRI/A's are not worth it if you look long term along with persistently high dopamine levels all over the brain. Personally, I think Strattera might be a good compound for ADD. People need to be more patient, it's not like Ritalin or Adderall that drops the hammer down and makes you do shit. There are also promising things out there like Compound 2 from 3ArmLampscooter's thread. Worth exploring further.

In the long run what are we all looking for? IMHO it is two-fold:

1. Increasing the amount of information we can process in any given amount of time, thereby increasing out processing speed and arriving at conclusions and realizations faster. Such as being in a state where you life is in threat and your perception of time slows down. All I wonder if this is possible to achieve and be sustainable. I doubt we could alter ourselves beyond our organic programming with synthetic compounds in these terms. It would be great to sit down and have an hour to go over material and yet make it feel like it was 3 hours. The converse is a state of flow where you feel like 3 hours passed by as if 1h. That might have to do. Better a state of flow than nothing.

2. Having your memory greatly increased. Here is a typical memory curve:

Now, here is the same memory curve for reviewing and re-doing material:

I'm sure compounds can be made to make the slope's of the intial curve less negative (that is, as close to zero as possible). I'm hoping ISRIB might hold promise in this regard.




Right now it's mostly hit or miss. Some things work really well for some, while producing little to no effect for others. Is this placebo? I don't have enough information to give an answer to that. There is evidence Piracetam does work. Will it ever be enough to satisfy our insatiable desire's? I doubt we would stop on NZT. There is always more to be wanted or desired. . .

Nice post, would be good to know one's own brain physiology,neurotrasmitters and hormones levels before starting taking mind altering compounds.

They are not a hit or miss. Unless you want the happiness you never had right now and magically... Well, the thing would be make huge amounts of research about neurology, pharmacology, psichiatry, even endocrinology... to make sure we are not barbarizing us. Know what does not work as you'd like, if it's serotonin, dopamine or cholinergics, anxiety problems, trauma, burnout, stress, fear... You have to kanow that you are doing right. If you enforce dopamine system with ciltep, and you notice effects, you have to learn that's dopamine boosting and link that knowledge to the experiences lived. If not, you will just take tons of supplements without even making an objective analysis of the effects of each one, and will end desperate or maniac or something... Think about it, if you have taken , all the nootropics that appear on the wikipedia web, you must have a vast knowledge in that matter. C'mon, let's be serious, what's the point of this topic?

Edited by Sholrak, 20 December 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[Constantine Vorobyoff]

You tell me. Though you've spoke long enough. The point is that we can't study all day. Any skill like language, music, math, doesn't matter. Deteriation happens pretty quickly and you are done.

[Multicultural Harmony]

I'll repeat myself. Aerobic exercise is still the best 'nootropic' there is, that is if you are healthy enough to do so. I'll be surprised if it is surpassed in the next decade, although it is possible.

I think that for most of the people that are not in the 50+ category, motivation/mood is the rate-limiting factor.

[ratzynal]

I'll repeat myself. Aerobic exercise is still the best 'nootropic' there is, that is if you are healthy enough to do so. I'll be surprised if it is surpassed in the next decade, although it is possible.

I think that for most of the people that are not in the 50+ category, motivation/mood is the rate-limiting factor.

Bravo. However, convincing smart people, that are already stuck in a rut, that they can't buy what they are looking for is difficult. Especially after years of dancing serotonin molecules on TV. Televangelists were convinced that Teletubbies were satanic, I think TeleTransmitters are infinitely more pernicious.

[deeptrance]

...we have been misled and feminization is killing us. 

...Sleeping with the hottest girl boosts your testosterone and a host of other factors necessary for good health/cognition.

 

Every man I know who makes these kinds of remarks is a sexually frustrated man-child who perceives women as "other" --- the feminine, the enemy. The way you toss out the phrase "sleeping with the hottest girl" is wildly dehumanizing and objectifying. And your comment assumes that the reader it is a heterosexual male, but that might be a safe bet on this forum.

Edited by deeptrance, 29 October 2015 - 04:26 AM.

[UKLAD]

If you don't mind taking psychedelic drugs (LSD, shrooms, cannabis) in very low doses then you've just found real and almost perfect nootropics.

 

have a listen to this http://smartdrugsmar...9-psychedelics/

[Ark]

I've tried everything. They help but not too much. Still I prefer taking them, it's better than nothing. Stimulants make your system down-regulate, as much as you give, as much will be taken back, nootropics as well (to a milder extent due to milder primary effect). How boring, muchachas.

I call b.s...