48 replies to this topic

[scottknl]

Hi all, thanks for more advice. I've been busy, and hence away from this site until today.

Scott, I think I may try a low fat vegan diet as it was recommended to me by a physician as having great weight loss potential. For omega 3, do you just take DHA, or EPA + DHA or ALA + DHA? I have DHA supplements here that I haven't taken yet, but I think I will soon. Honestly I think a vegan diet is natural for me since I'm vegetarian and don't eat much milk or eggs anyways. My biggest vice is FRIES!! But I can seriously cut back on that to lose weight, no problem. Any other tips for me in regards to a vegan diet?

Thanks. =)

My advice is to not go too low on the fats since they are necessary for the absorption of many vitamins. For example just including a few grams of nuts and seeds with your gigantic salad will greatly increase the absorption of the nutrition by a factor of 7x - 8x as much. Just don't drown a 40 calorie salad with 150 calories of salad dressing!!!

I agree with some of what Darryl mentioned regarding DHA and development of neural tissue, but I'd go a little further and suggest that they're called essential fatty acids for the reason that you must include them in your diet for maintenance of your nervous system. In my own near vegan diet, I get my omegas from flaxseed, flaxseed oil and various nuts and seeds. If you're interested you can find my diet here. I've been doing this since 2009.

Other advice would be not to trust a doctor that doesn't have a specialty in nutrition. Your average family doctor doesn't know anything about nutrition since they receive little to no training in it during their education. In fact, if you change to long term healthy eating of a properly balanced diet, you're likely to outlive quite a few doctors one after the other.

"Balanced diet persistence" is how you get healthy and stay healthy.

[Darryl]

@ Brett thanks for pointing out that study. There's no question that LA is preferable to saturated & trans fats for CVD prevention. The pathway/mechanistic evidence still suggests a high n-3:n-6 ratio is important, the n-3 (ie. fish oil) intervention evidence suggests its important, and some research like this is worrysome:

Ramsden, Christopher E., et al. "Use of dietary linoleic acid for secondary prevention of coronary heart disease and death: evaluation of recovered data from the Sydney Diet Heart Study and updated meta-analysis." BMJ: British Medical Journal 346 (2013).

Till a verdict comes in, it just seems prudent (to me) to aim as close as possible to 1:1 in ALA:LA, and that's very, very hard when consuming sunflower, corn, cottonseed, soybean, safflower and peanut oils.

On a weight-loss diets, its an easier call: if high caloric density foods are diet breakers, then one must necessarily choose what kinds of fats to permit oneself. My reading of the evidence suggests that minimizing all refined fats, permitting flaxseed / flaxmeal ad libitum, a daily handful of nuts, and just enough cooking oil (preferably the 1:2 ALA:LA of canola) for sauteeing aromatic veggies makes sense. Maybe by the time I'm down to a 22 BMI there will be better evidence than just the hierarchy ω-3 > ω-6 > MUFA > SFA > trans-FA that appears the consensus (outside the paleo/anti-PUFA echo chamber).

Edited by Darryl, 07 January 2014 - 05:25 AM.

[platypus]

I am going to see if I can get to 20, admittedly mostly for aesthetic reasons.

if you want to minimize fat-percentage, you should say so. BMI is a bad measure of "aesthetics" in athletic people.

[platypus]

Hi all, thanks for more advice. I've been busy, and hence away from this site until today.

Scott, I think I may try a low fat vegan diet as it was recommended to me by a physician as having great weight loss potential. For omega 3, do you just take DHA, or EPA + DHA or ALA + DHA? I have DHA supplements here that I haven't taken yet, but I think I will soon. Honestly I think a vegan diet is natural for me since I'm vegetarian and don't eat much milk or eggs anyways. My biggest vice is FRIES!! But I can seriously cut back on that to lose weight, no problem. Any other tips for me in regards to a vegan diet?

Thanks. =)

The vegan diet is difficult to pull off without developing deficiencies in the long run. Lacto-ovo vegetarian is easier and healthier, I think people should only go vegan for moral/spiritual reasons.

[theconomist]

Hi all, thanks for more advice. I've been busy, and hence away from this site until today.

Scott, I think I may try a low fat vegan diet as it was recommended to me by a physician as having great weight loss potential. For omega 3, do you just take DHA, or EPA + DHA or ALA + DHA? I have DHA supplements here that I haven't taken yet, but I think I will soon. Honestly I think a vegan diet is natural for me since I'm vegetarian and don't eat much milk or eggs anyways. My biggest vice is FRIES!! But I can seriously cut back on that to lose weight, no problem. Any other tips for me in regards to a vegan diet?

Thanks. =)

The vegan diet is difficult to pull off without developing deficiencies in the long run. Lacto-ovo vegetarian is easier and healthier, I think people should only go vegan for moral/spiritual reasons.

Disregard everything this person said.
The one thing you need to supplement as a vegan is b12. A proper cron vegan diet will have no other defficencies.

[platypus]

Disregard everything this person said.
The one thing you need to supplement as a vegan is b12. A proper cron vegan diet will have no other defficencies.

The problem is the word "proper" is this context. There are plenty of stories of vegans tolerating their diet for 10-20 years before hitting a deficiency. The vegan diet is a rather extreme one so it does not surprise me that it is easy to do it slightly wrong.

ps. what's your take on carnosine supplementation and vegans?

[Tinply]

Thanks all for your further replies, I've read them all. Unfortunately, yesterday I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. That would explain why I get so achy and tired after exercising for a bit. I also have problems with aches and pains throughout my body, fatigue, mind fog, and so on, so it's good that I've figured out what the problem is. I'm seeing a kinesiologist on Friday to help me to develop an exercise plan. At my university I have a free gym membership, so I'm going to start working out a bit more, as per what I can tolerate.

[theconomist]

Disregard everything this person said.
The one thing you need to supplement as a vegan is b12. A proper cron vegan diet will have no other defficencies.

The problem is the word "proper" is this context. There are plenty of stories of vegans tolerating their diet for 10-20 years before hitting a deficiency. The vegan diet is a rather extreme one so it does not surprise me that it is easy to do it slightly wrong.

ps. what's your take on carnosine supplementation and vegans?

Interesting to supplement but not necessary. THe problem with many vegans is they start b12 too late or they don't supplement it properly. I'm not a vegan myself but you can't make absolute statements like that. Yes if supplements didn't exist a vegan diet would be unwise, however they do exist so the debate is moot. In my mind the best diet would be a severly cron vegan diet with limited carbs too, the problem is such a diet is almost impossible to follow for long periods, hence why the best advice is what Michael Pollan says; eat real food, not too much, mostly plants. Obviously you'd have to adapt your diet to your current health condition.

[Stefanovic]

In my country most obese people undergo weight loss surgery these days. Some people are always hungry no matter how much they eat.

[Darryl]

@platypus:

Muscle carnosine in vegans is limited by hepatic synthesis of β-alanine, and vegans have about 75% of the muscle carnosine content of omnivores. Omnivores get about 330 mg of dietary β-alanine daily (3¢ worth).

Preformed carnosine supplementation is pointless - its broken down by highly active plasma carnosinase.

Edited by Darryl, 10 January 2014 - 11:11 PM.

[Bogomoletz II]

Stimulants. Ephedrine+caffeine daily. Speeds up your metabolism. Should make you more energetic, too. That's useful when it comes to exercise. You can lose weight without doing cardio, but still, it's more effective with cardio, and it's healthy. Lastly and most importantly, you can't lose weight without a caloric deficit. You'll just have to get a grip and endure it. Ignore the hunger, distract your mind with engaging activities.

[JohnD60]

I do have a treadmill, but cannot go for too long because of my weight.

I have never had to lose weight since I have been lucky enough to have never been over weight. But, I have you seen the TV show the biggest loser. A large part of their weight loss plan, arguably the majority of their weight loss plan, is frequent cardio exercise.

I think the cardio just makes for 'good' t.v. Diet is way more important for weight loss.

i came across this interview today of a former Biggest Loser contestant by Lyle McDonald, a fairly well known diet author. http://www.bodyrecom...r-feedback.html
The contestant claims that they did 4+ hours of cardio a day, six days a week.

Edited by JohnD60, 10 February 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[platypus]

Stimulants. Ephedrine+caffeine daily. Speeds up your metabolism. Should make you more energetic, too. That's useful when it comes to exercise. You can lose weight without doing cardio, but still, it's more effective with cardio, and it's healthy. Lastly and most importantly, you can't lose weight without a caloric deficit. You'll just have to get a grip and endure it. Ignore the hunger, distract your mind with engaging activities.

I'd say building muscle is fundamental to losing fat. Becoming stronger should be an explicit goal of an exercise program for fat-loss, i.e. do not only do cardio!

[deadwood]

I think sometimes something goes wrong in the body and it screws up all the usual ways of losing weight. So a lot of otherwise good advice just might not work.

I think you might have to find a way of living on a relatively small amount of food. Even though that might sound terrible, it would be possible once you find a way to avoid hunger. I live on about 1700 calories a day, even though I am a 5' 10" male. I used to be about 230lb, and now I am around 150lb. I would not call this calorie restriction--it is the amount I find I can eat without gaining weight, and so I feel I have to abide by it or get bigger. And I count into that a lot of fibre, resistant starch, etc., so my food is not all "goodies" either. (It is crucial to count supplement calories, particularly when taking them in powder form.)

I am surprised that this satisfies me. I think resistant starch is a big part of making me feel full, and I sometimes add some spoonfuls of pectin, bran, or whatever, before my big meal, which is breakfast. I have systematically trained myself to want only one proper meal a day--at lunch and "tea" I do not have very much. But I do have cream in my coffee and milk in my tea, which I think of now as "food" drinks, believing them a key part of my absence of hunger. I also do not eat after tea-time (about 6 pm). I now consider lunch as a snack and my evening "meal" as just "tea". (I think the old idea of evening "tea" is very useful in keeping calories down.)

As you can see, I have not offered any technical advice at all--because it sounds as if you will have issues very particular to you. I just think you will need to find a way of being happy with eating relatively little. Good, filling, satisfying foods for me are potatoes, eggs, vegetables, "fruit" vegetables (green beans, peppers, tomatoes), mushrooms, dried fruit, oats. A filling tea for me, for example, is oats with raisins and a spoon of cream. I can feel as if I am eating quite a lot by piecing my intake together from the above types of foods, and by taking spoonfuls of resistant starch and fibres--as well as having cream or milk in my tea and coffee.

Congrats on teh weight loss. 1700 calories is plenty. It leaves no room for junk but who cares. 1700 nutrient dense calories is more than enough to fuel the body, I was a competitive athlete and never went beyond 2200 calories andthat's with 4-6 hr. work outs per day, 6 days a week. I just had to chose my food carefully.

I do have a treadmill, but cannot go for too long because of my weight.

I have never had to lose weight since I have been lucky enough to have never been over weight. But, I have you seen the TV show the biggest loser. A large part of their weight loss plan, arguably the majority of their weight loss plan, is frequent cardio exercise.

I think the cardio just makes for 'good' t.v. Diet is way more important for weight loss.

i came across this interview today of a former Biggest Loser contestant by Lyle McDonald, a fairly well known diet author. http://www.bodyrecom...r-feedback.html
The contestant claims that they did 4+ hours of cardio a day, six days a week.

Diet is "way more important"? Sorry, if you workout like a mad man you can eat like one too. I know trained athletes that eat like complete crap but look like adonis. It's propbably easier to eat healthy and do moderate exercise but I can guarentee you, if you have the will power to train 4 hrs. a day diet youll lose weight eating big macs.

[chemicalambrosia]

I do have a treadmill, but cannot go for too long because of my weight.

I have never had to lose weight since I have been lucky enough to have never been over weight. But, I have you seen the TV show the biggest loser. A large part of their weight loss plan, arguably the majority of their weight loss plan, is frequent cardio exercise.

I think the cardio just makes for 'good' t.v. Diet is way more important for weight loss.

i came across this interview today of a former Biggest Loser contestant by Lyle McDonald, a fairly well known diet author. http://www.bodyrecom...r-feedback.html
The contestant claims that they did 4+ hours of cardio a day, six days a week.

I recommended a book by Lyle McDonald earlier in this thread. He is a real deal guru when it comes to dieting/sports nutrition. As his comments say in that article he isn't a big believer in hard training while doing intense dieting. The Biggest Loser show obviously takes the exact opposite approach. If you have 4 hours a day to burn I guess that works...

[Bogomoletz II]

I'd say building muscle is fundamental to losing fat. Becoming stronger should be an explicit goal of an exercise program for fat-loss, i.e. do not only do cardio!

I'd say "fundamental" is a bit of an exaggeration. If you had more muscle to begin with, losing fat would be easier for you because your base metabolic rate would be higher. Losing fat and building muscle at the same time is inefficient, and some even refuse to acknowledge that it's possible. You should do resistence training during your fat losing period if you're interested in preserving muscle mass, though, and that's, as you know, what bodybuilders do when they "cut."

[platypus]

I'd say building muscle is fundamental to losing fat. Becoming stronger should be an explicit goal of an exercise program for fat-loss, i.e. do not only do cardio!

I'd say "fundamental" is a bit of an exaggeration. If you had more muscle to begin with, losing fat would be easier for you because your base metabolic rate would be higher. Losing fat and building muscle at the same time is inefficient, and some even refuse to acknowledge that it's possible. You should do resistence training during your fat losing period if you're interested in preserving muscle mass, though, and that's, as you know, what bodybuilders do when they "cut."

Right, even though lately there are people who claim to be able to maintain low bodyfat-levels while building muscle (leangains etc.), so perhaps the tide is turning?

[Bogomoletz II]

Right, even though lately there are people who claim to be able to maintain low bodyfat-levels while building muscle (leangains etc.), so perhaps the tide is turning?

I'm not saying you shouldn't give it a go, but what's wrong with the orthodox alternate bulking-cutting regimen? The methods that promise simultanous muscle gains and fat loss require some unusual diets and/or training programs, which all people aren't able or willing to do.

BTW, kinda random. Yesterday I stumbled on a bodybuilding.com article about isometric exercises and it described a study where the participants added 9 pounds of muscle and lost 4.9 pounds of fat in 10 weeks: http://www.bodybuild.../fun/sisco6.htm

Edited by Bogomoletz II, 18 February 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[medicineman]

You are morbidly obese. Over 50 BMI, most respectable institutions suggest pharmacotherapy +- surgery.

Bariatric surgery is associated with a vast improvement in metabolic profile.

There are safe new drugs on the market. Topamax /phentermine combo is a new player in market. It is relatively safe as well.

Bupropion is an antidepressant with pro-cognitive and appetite suppressing capabilities.

I'm not suggesting anything (be informed then choose) , but I would be more aggressive if I were you.

Edited by medicineman, 19 February 2014 - 04:48 PM.