693 replies to this topic

[maxwatt]

A company I know in China are working to secure a legitimate supply which they will offer wholesale. I've no idea what their price will be.

[Virtual Reality]

So when will it be synthesized?

[Colli]

Count me in!

[meatsauce]

I am in!

[Nattzor]

Will anything happen with this or did OP just create a thread too see if people were interested?

[extiron]

I am in

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I found a supplier that can deliver a 25kg drum of the stuff for a reasonable price. The problem is 25kg is waaaaay too much for me. Also they don’t accept PayPal. Furthermore I never done business with them so I don’t know if they are reliable. But I asked around a lot and it’s a real company with a good reputation. And lastly I never arranged a group buy so I wouldn't be the right person to arrange such a thing. Perhaps I can arrange to package the stuff in 1kg sealed bags so someone can send those to group buy participants. I think the price would be between 100$ and 150$ a kilo. BUt it might be cheaper. Also I received labanalysis that confirm a purity of 99%.

[pleiotropic]

I found a supplier that can deliver a 25kg drum of the stuff for a reasonable price. .... Also I received labanalysis that confirm a purity of 99%.

cool, but their "labanalysis" is it in-house or can it be verified as independent? how can we verify? I've seen chinese suppliers say "yes, we can do X" then they quickly substitute some other chemical analysis for X in a word document and send it back without actually doing anything. Sometimes it's a say yes first policy to get a down payment regardless of whether they can actually perform the synth. Especially so with newer compounds? Did they tell you the method of synthesis too?

Just being skeptical here since I've seen a lot of canned responses from these companies.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I found a supplier that can deliver a 25kg drum of the stuff for a reasonable price. .... Also I received labanalysis that confirm a purity of 99%.

cool, but their "labanalysis" is it in-house or can it be verified as independent? how can we verify? I've seen chinese suppliers say "yes, we can do X" then they quickly substitute some other chemical analysis for X in a word document and send it back without actually doing anything. Sometimes it's a say yes first policy to get a down payment regardless of whether they can actually perform the synth. Especially so with newer compounds? Did they tell you the method of synthesis too?

Just being skeptical here since I've seen a lot of canned responses from these companies.

You're not the only one that is skeptical. The lab analysis is in-house. It's a COA and HNMR. I also asked independent contacts if they could check the company and if it's trustworthy. They told me that it is a real company and it has been checked on Hebei Indrustry and Commerce Bureau.
Furthermore the company told me that they synthesize Nicotinamide Riboside for 2 years now and that they are specialized in this compound. Which I found strange considering the Chromadex Patent is from 2013.
I have my doubts but everything I checked until know with my contacts in China; it seems to be the real thing. Thought I would just throw this in the group and discus it with you guys.

Edited by Rumpelstiltskin, 03 January 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Dstein]

So how do these group buys work?

[gnappi]

I found a supplier that can deliver a 25kg drum of the stuff for a reasonable price. The problem is 25kg is waaaaay too much for me. Also they don’t accept PayPal. Furthermore I never done business with them so I don’t know if they are reliable. But I asked around a lot and it’s a real company with a good reputation. And lastly I never arranged a group buy so I wouldn't be the right person to arrange such a thing. Perhaps I can arrange to package the stuff in 1kg sealed bags so someone can send those to group buy participants. I think the price would be between 100$ and 150$ a kilo. BUt it might be cheaper. Also I received labanalysis that confirm a purity of 99%.

Please, count me in for 1kg!!!

[OpaqueMind]

I am definitely also down for this buy. Do we know the typical dose range for a human?

[nbourbaki]

I would like to purchase 1.5kg if the group buy get's off the ground.

[Virtual Reality]

Studies were done on about 3.5 grams per day for a 70 kg individual
http://www.buy-nicot...e-riboside.com/

[OpaqueMind]

Put me down for a kilo. If anyone is collecting names that is. It's unclear to me whether anyone is actually taking the reins on this, or whether it was just floated as a potential group buy. I imagine sooner or later there will be a market surge of this given the pretty profound recent article, that is, if the mechanism is shared in humans, which I am under the impression it is since mitochondrial DNA, structure and function varies little between mammalian species. So if that happens the price should drop substantially, although probably not enough to match Rumpelstiltskins offer.

A company I know in China are working to secure a legitimate supply which they will offer wholesale. I've no idea what their price will be.

If you get any updates, please keep us informed.

[maxwatt]

i doubt anything will take off the way resveratrol did, the press is quite shy after that debacle.

As for updates on it, it may be after Chinese New Year.

[saxiephon]

I would like 1 KG as well.

[OpaqueMind]

I hope either someone here or a potential supplier jump on the chance to synthesise and sell this molecule in bulk... the going rate at the moment is fucking ridiculous, at ~£50 a bottle!! The mark up on that must be insane.

Also, check this out -



As you can see, there is a clear drop in NAD+ from years 1 - 15, and for some that was up to an ~80% decline.

The brain consumes ~20% of our daily energy supply, on average. Mitochondria are the main source of cellular energy, and are incredibly populous within the brain, particularly around synapses, which are responsible for neuroplasticity ie learning. NAD+ supports mitochondrial efficiency and communication. Therefore declining levels lead to less energy to perform inter/intra-cellular operations, of which neuroplasticity is one. Another crucial energy user is cell maintenance and repair. Neuronal integrity and flexibility are the foundations of a healthy and adaptive brain.

Hypothesis - could the abundance of this molecule explain (and if so to what degree) the incredible abilities of young minds to absorb information so easily and thoroughly?

Edited by OpaqueMind, 09 January 2014 - 05:19 PM.

[megatron]

In for a kilo as well. Are we getting anywhere with this?

[OpaqueMind]

As far as I can tell nobody seems to be spearheading this buy. I would but I'm deep in preparation for finals so my time is very limited I don't understand why there aren't more people throwing in, since this is a longevity board, and this substance is the most promising age-reverser I've yet seen. The description below makes no mention of NR's effect on healthy brains, but we can easily infer that since it boosts mitochondria very effectively that it will do the same for the brain.

The effects of nicotinamide riboside (NR) on insulin sensitivity, mitochondrial biogenesis and improving sirtuin function are truly unique. NR is the first molecule to possess an enviable triple action: anti-ageing, slimming and energising!

Enables more calories to be burned even when resting

¤ NR increases intracellular and mitochondrial levels of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) (which becomes NADH when joined with hydrogen) in cells and tissues. NAD+ is an essential factor in ATP metabolism. This increase in NAD helps the body burn more calories naturally, as NAD+ is a vital co-substrate of sirtuin enzymes. This clearly demonstrates that supplementing with NR offers the health benefits of following a low-calorie diet and taking regular exercise - without having to do either - and is thus particularly recommended for those who are overweight.

Improves insulin sensitivity


¤ NR largely prevents the negative metabolic effects of a high-fat diet: mice given NR supplements gained just 60% of the weight gained by a control group, and unlike the latter, none of the NR-supplemented mice went on to develop diabetes. “Even with a normal diet, NR improves insulin sensitivity", underlined Carles Canto.

Counteracts the effects of ageing


¤ NR supplementation measurably boosts the activity of the sirtuin enzymes SIRT1 and SIRT3, effects otherwise only achievable through drastic calorie reduction or by taking supplements that mimic such calorie restriction, such as resveratrol and its derivatives, or oxaloacetate (see these products for more info).

¤ Activating sirtuins improves metabolic functions associated with mitochondria (the cells’ energy powerhouses), including fat-burning and cells’ oxidative capacities. It is one of the most scientifically-validated ways of counteracting the effects of ageing, limiting the many diseases associated with mitochondrial decline and increasing lifespan in laboratory animals(and almost certainly that of humans too).

Offers hope for Alzheimer’s

¤ NAD+ activation has been linked to decreased toxicity of beta-amyloid peptides in Alzheimer’s disease. As a precursor of NAD+, NR promotes expression in the brain of the co-activators PGC-1α, major regulators of production of beta-amyloid peptides. Studies of mice models affected by Alzheimer’s disease suggest that NR is highly bioavailable in the brain and exerts neuro-protective effects, probably by stimulating the brain’s production of NAD. In one such study, researchers tested the hypothesis that NR treatment in a precise mouse model could reduce toxicity of beta-amyloid plaques. Mice affected by a similar form of Alzheimer’s disease were therefore given NR for a period of three months at the end of which the researchers observed a significant reduction in cognitive deterioration in the mice alongside an increase in NAD+ levels in the cerebral cortex. By promoting expression of PGC-1α in the brain, NR thus helps reduce production of beta-amyloid peptides.

¤ NR supplementation could therefore benefit Alzheimer’s patients by improving cognitive function and synaptic plasticity, and to some degree, by preventing production of toxic beta-amyloid plaques in the brain.

Restores energy and improves muscle performance

¤ NR improves mitochondrial function and muscular efficacy and performance in endurance tests. Rodents given NR supplements outperformed untreated animals by 10% in endurance running tests. Microscopic examination of their muscle fibres confirmed they were in better shape. The supplemented mice also performed better when exposed to a cold environment. Their greater resistance to the cold suggests both improved energy expenditure and mitochondrial function. “As a consequence, these findings indicate that NR could be used as a nutritional supplement for combatting metabolic and age-related disorders characterised by defective mitochondrial function.” Given the worrying prevalence of such problems, and the enthusiasm of the researchers’ conclusions, it makes sense to now begin recommending NR supplementation to anyone aged over 50.

and here's a review of the product on amazon...

I discovered N® Niagen by doing some research related to a news posting from the Harvard Medical School on 12/19/13 related to anti-aging and the communication between the nucleus of the cell and the mitochondria (the powerhouses of the cell). In essence the aging of mammals can be reversed. As the news release said: "The aging process we discovered is like a married couple--when they are young, they communicate well, but over time, living in close quarters for many years, communication breaks down," said Harvard Medical School Professor of Genetics David Sinclair, senior author on the study. "And just like with a couple, restoring communication solved the problem."

The news release went on to say: As Gomes and her colleagues investigated potential causes for this, they discovered an intricate cascade of events that begins with a chemical called NAD and concludes with a key molecule that shuttles information and coordinates activities between the cell's nuclear genome and the mitochondrial genome. Cells stay healthy as long as coordination between the genomes remains fluid.

The news release is found here: http://hms.harvard.e...-aging-12-19-13

Using the mice model, they were able to reverse the aging in mice equivalent from a 60 year old human to a 20 year old (muscle tone).

So I began looking for a compound that would increase ones NAD, and stumbled across this new compound (N) R Niagen.

Niagen is basically micronized vitamin B3. It provides all the benefits of B3/Niacin that researchers knew would be impressive, but couldn't really succeed because of the "niacin flush" and other factors regarding absorption in the human body.

I've now been taking Niagen for 3 weeks, and the results are impressive. My workouts at the gym have exploded to a new level that I was never able to obtain. My body composition is changing where I'm loosing fat in areas that I just could never achieve results while I'm toning and adding muscle.

Also, the nootropic effects are excellent with very clear and fast thinking, memory recall and attention which is really helping me at my work (software design).

For an added boost, I am combining this with a BioPQQ compound (such as made by Life Extension), which nourishes the mitochondria and causes them to replicate. PQQ activates genes that promote formation of new mitochondria and beneficially interacts with genes directly involved in mitochondrial health.

I recommended Niagen to a friend, and she remarked that after less than week, her workouts too were impressive. It was hard for her to believe that there was no stimulant involved, but just optimizing the energy production of our cells provided so much energy. She also reports being in a very good mood since she started taking it. When I think about it, I have to say I have not been in a bad mood at all since taking it, even though things had come up which could have put me there. So another interesting side effect.

I've tried many supplements with so/so to null results. I really feel I've found something special with Niagen.


I will post an update in another month or so to report on my progress.

Edited by OpaqueMind, 13 January 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Izan]

I found a supplier that can deliver a 25kg drum of the stuff for a reasonable price. The problem is 25kg is waaaaay too much for me. Also they don’t accept PayPal. Furthermore I never done business with them so I don’t know if they are reliable. But I asked around a lot and it’s a real company with a good reputation. And lastly I never arranged a group buy so I wouldn't be the right person to arrange such a thing. Perhaps I can arrange to package the stuff in 1kg sealed bags so someone can send those to group buy participants. I think the price would be between 100$ and 150$ a kilo. BUt it might be cheaper. Also I received labanalysis that confirm a purity of 99%.

put me down for a kilogram please!

[Overman]

I'm in for a kilo as well, but with the caveat that 3rd party analysis by a U.S or European company is necessary. I don't want to consume up to a 1000 grams worth of (potentially) contaminated product.

Additionally I am willing to participate in the organization/distribution process, however as it stands now I am not well known enough around here (although I'm a long time member). Solutions to this issue are welcome.

Side note: I've been taking tigerfitness' niagen for about a week and am noticing some really great results. Example: working four jobs and learning several advanced math topics which I've been meaning to get into came much easier than normal due to very noticeably consistent energy and mood. That consistency translates into more regular high level output wrt cognition. Importantly, I haven't noticed an increase in peak abilities (working memory, intermediate term memory, reasoning, creativity, etc). Will update in a more appropriate place after a few weeks have passed.

Edited by Overman, 14 January 2014 - 01:54 PM.

[88LS]

If this thing is going forward, consider me in.

[OpaqueMind]

Here is a decent list of potential suppliers. How to tell the good from the bad I'm not sure.

I found a supplier that can deliver a 25kg drum of the stuff for a reasonable price. The problem is 25kg is waaaaay too much for me. Also they don’t accept PayPal. Furthermore I never done business with them so I don’t know if they are reliable. But I asked around a lot and it’s a real company with a good reputation. And lastly I never arranged a group buy so I wouldn't be the right person to arrange such a thing. Perhaps I can arrange to package the stuff in 1kg sealed bags so someone can send those to group buy participants. I think the price would be between 100$ and 150$ a kilo. BUt it might be cheaper. Also I received labanalysis that confirm a purity of 99%.

Hey rumpel, could you send us a link to your supplier so someone who is willing to lead this buy can get the ball rolling? Also, do they deliver anything less than 25kg, in case this thing doesn't go through?

[Overman]

Any thoughts on 3rd party analysis?

It will add some time, but I think it's an invaluable precaution.


<300 for a kilo is great, and I think we can get 25-50 interested people and their money organized, so let's do it well and carefully.

[Werper]

I would be interested, Maybe we can get scienceguy behind the buy.

[OpaqueMind]

Any thoughts on 3rd party analysis?

It will add some time, but I think it's an invaluable precaution.


<300 for a kilo is great, and I think we can get 25-50 interested people and their money organized, so let's do it well and carefully.

It depends on how much it is, but I think if we're going to be taking a significant amount through time then it would be a wise precaution.

If we buy from a reputable company such as the one Rumpel says his contacts claimed were, then it may not be so important... although can we trust hearsay? His contacts are probably reliable, but how can we know that? If we knew the synth root we might be able to figure out the likelihood and type of contaminants that might occur. If the synth is as simple as 3Alarm says then the potential for incomplete synth contaminants is very low, potentially zero. Someone with more chemistry knowledge could perhaps chime in on this matter.

Also, how would we analyse the material before we buy in bulk? Perhaps we could ask for a sample? Can you organise this analysis Ubermensch?

Also, do you think Niagen is worth the price, for a little test run at least?

[megatron]

I see T&W Group is the first company on the list. I think that's the manufacturer NSN use, and I think people are happy with the quality of their products? Didn't ScienceGuy also show satisfaction with their LC-MS and HNMR analysis?

[Dstein]

Also, how would we analyse the material before we buy in bulk? Perhaps we could ask for a sample?

Also, do you think Niagen is worth the price, for a little test run at least?

If they send you a sample, how reasonable is it to assume that it is the same stuff that you would receive in the bulk purchase?

NR can be cheaply produced from a special strain of bakers/brewers yeast; Niagen is ridiculously overpriced.

[Dstein]

As far as I can tell nobody seems to be spearheading this buy.

If somebody would explain to me how these group buys work, I might be interested in spearheading this.
Has anybody considered making it at home from yeast? The strain that you would need is here http://www.atcc.org/...ll/4021847.aspx