693 replies to this topic

[borg389]

I will just have to see what they are willing to do. I am sure they are going to have a pull, wiegh and package charge. Then whatever the shipping is. If this works I think I can get them to do one every other week of something as that would allow the entire previous order to get out the door. I will know in the morning. I am sure they may balk if there are 300 50 gram orders.

I imagine even an eight of a kilo might be too small. But if a quarter kilo is ok, I could split that with Prophets.

[PWAIN]

Given the new price, I'd like to drop mine from 1Kg to 250g, thanks.

[nbourbaki]

Given the new price, I'd like to drop mine from 1Kg to 250g, thanks.

I would also like to drop mine from 1kg to 1/2 kg.

[Geoffrey1]

looking ahead: I take my Niagen (Nicotinamide Riboside: way way over-priced) under my tongue, on an empty stomach. Excuse my ignorance but is there any treason to think it may pass the BBB and be better absorbed taken under the tongue.? Appreciate any opinions.
Geoffrey

[midas]

looking ahead: I take my Niagen (Nicotinamide Riboside: way way over-priced) under my tongue, on an empty stomach. Excuse my ignorance but is there any treason to think it may pass the BBB and be better absorbed taken under the tongue.? Appreciate any opinions.
Geoffrey

Should get into your blood stream quicker....if placed under your tongue.

The evidence is that it does pass the BBB as it is supposed to be neuro protective.

[Geoffrey1]

I have been looking all over for the supplier. In getting feedback from three different companies I cannot see it. All of them do the 99% and list it as a food additive for losing weight. So far the average is 500 per Kg if buying 50 Kg's at a time. In talking to the largest company they do not think it is possible to make it for that price. Has there been any feedback from the guy who started this?

I got the names of 2 reputable companies from my friend in Hong Kong: for USP material best quote was $2500 for purchase of 1 Kilo. The original quote from the Arizona company fellow is scary in terms of what he is selling re his other products. Definitely not what I would put into my body. Of course we can do better purchasing larger amounts but taking 1.5 grams a day is significant; better off not taking anything for those who want a "cheap" price. We're all aware of heavy metals etc problems from Chinese material.

DP 10kg $520/kg (figure we can get 10 kilos together) is a very good price if the material is of a purity (food additive should be of a good purity) Can we ascertain the purity of the batch we would get? Do you mind mentioning the name of the company; I can run it by my friend in HK.
Thanks again DP
Geoffrey

[dpaxton]

I have it so far that doing this is not the issue. They actually supply enough to the food inductry that they keep 50kg on hand at all times. I am, trying to set this up so that they do the lot split for a number of people. They do paypal and will do escrow. So if I set this up right we then have a long term synthesis company that can do one of these let's say every two weeks for different chemicals. The last hurdle is having them do the split up and shipping on this. I am still working on that. They do ship to north america and europe for 50 and 60$ for one kg respectively. I am sure we can get the lot specs when this is a go. The other issue is they are not sure they want to be bombarded with a bunch of small sales emails. I am not sure how to deal with that as I want them to do the paypal etc.

[Geoffrey1]

I have it so far that doing this is not the issue. They actually supply enough to the food inductry that they keep 50kg on hand at all times. I am, trying to set this up so that they do the lot split for a number of people. They do paypal and will do escrow. So if I set this up right we then have a long term synthesis company that can do one of these let's say every two weeks for different chemicals. The last hurdle is having them do the split up and shipping on this. I am still working on that. They do ship to north america and europe for 50 and 60$ for one kg respectively. I am sure we can get the lot specs when this is a go. The other issue is they are not sure they want to be bombarded with a bunch of small sales emails. I am not sure how to deal with that as I want them to do the paypal etc.

wonder if someone here who is short on cash but having time might receive one order, divide up and ship. We would of course give in exchange each paying more so they would receive their material for free. The company would receive multiple payments via paypal but only ship to one person; the person would receive their material at no cost and everyone else would pay a little more. Logistics to work out but just putting that out there in case someone has time but is short on cash

[dpaxton]

That would make things easier. I have two synthesis houses that are top notch and do not overcharge. If we had a trusted person here to do the logistics this would work. Maybe set up a week poll on what peope would want to get in a bulk buy. A week to gather the funds. Then order and get shipping finished. These guys do escrow which make something like this work. I can put the China side in place. This could turn out to be intersting as we can get the more exotic things in.

[Nattzor]

Wasn't a company (nootropicsdepot) gonna start supplying it (for cheaper than you're talking)?

[hmahal]

Is Parmatrix no longer organizing this using a US lab?

[borg389]

I have it so far that doing this is not the issue. They actually supply enough to the food inductry that they keep 50kg on hand at all times. I am, trying to set this up so that they do the lot split for a number of people. They do paypal and will do escrow. So if I set this up right we then have a long term synthesis company that can do one of these let's say every two weeks for different chemicals. The last hurdle is having them do the split up and shipping on this. I am still working on that. They do ship to north america and europe for 50 and 60$ for one kg respectively. I am sure we can get the lot specs when this is a go. The other issue is they are not sure they want to be bombarded with a bunch of small sales emails. I am not sure how to deal with that as I want them to do the paypal etc.

wonder if someone here who is short on cash but having time might receive one order, divide up and ship. We would of course give in exchange each paying more so they would receive their material for free. The company would receive multiple payments via paypal but only ship to one person; the person would receive their material at no cost and everyone else would pay a little more. Logistics to work out but just putting that out there in case someone has time but is short on cash

I'd be happy to do it, but it's not necessary to provide mine free. I'm between jobs so I have the time but I can afford a small amount.

Whether you folks trust me enough is another question as I'm relatively new to this website.

[ParMatrix]

I'm still looking into it for you guys =)

[longevist]

I am new to this forum, so forgive my ignorance but I need to ask this question:

Would taking similar amounts of nicotinic acid not yield similar results as taking nicotinamide riboside? It is my understanding that nicotinic acid is not a sirt-1 inhibitor and increases nad+. Of course you would have to stand the flush, but if you divide the daily dosage in three parts it might work. It would also be considerably cheaper.

[smithx]

It seems the discussion has come back around to low-cost and non-vetted suppliers.

So I will renew my offer of doing an automated GC/MS analysis of a sample, in exchange for 1Kg of material. Actually, I will do it for 500mg, because I don't need 1Kg.

[BigPapaChakra]

I am new to this forum, so forgive my ignorance but I need to ask this question:

Would taking similar amounts of nicotinic acid not yield similar results as taking nicotinamide riboside? It is my understanding that nicotinic acid is not a sirt-1 inhibitor and increases nad+. Of course you would have to stand the flush, but if you divide the daily dosage in three parts it might work. It would also be considerably cheaper.

Regular ol' nicotinamide inhibits sirtuins; NMR activates them. Nicotinamide can be converted to nicotinamide riboside and/or nicotinamide mononucleotide but it's a difficult, costly process, and dependent upon something called NAMPT. If I'm not mistaken NMR bypasses this and goes through some other processes to activate sirtuins and increase NAD+ in cells. In the studies being published on NMR, some by the manufacturers such as Chromadex, it has been shown to reverse and prevent the "psuedo-hypoxic" state associated with aging and many diseases. When given to young, healthy rats, it made them "supercharged" (actually the term used in the literature, I believe). The effects of NMR should be much different, and much more noticeable than niacin or its amide.

[Iporuru]

I am new to this forum, so forgive my ignorance but I need to ask this question:

Would taking similar amounts of nicotinic acid not yield similar results as taking nicotinamide riboside? It is my understanding that nicotinic acid is not a sirt-1 inhibitor and increases nad+. Of course you would have to stand the flush, but if you divide the daily dosage in three parts it might work. It would also be considerably cheaper.

Regular ol' nicotinamide inhibits sirtuins; NMR activates them. Nicotinamide can be converted to nicotinamide riboside and/or nicotinamide mononucleotide but it's a difficult, costly process, and dependent upon something called NAMPT. If I'm not mistaken NMR bypasses this and goes through some other processes to activate sirtuins and increase NAD+ in cells. In the studies being published on NMR, some by the manufacturers such as Chromadex, it has been shown to reverse and prevent the "psuedo-hypoxic" state associated with aging and many diseases. When given to young, healthy rats, it made them "supercharged" (actually the term used in the literature, I believe). The effects of NMR should be much different, and much more noticeable than niacin or its amide.

great answer thanks.

Great answer - OK, but not exactly to the question asked, which was about nicotinic acid, not nicotinamide. Whereas nicotinamide seems to inhibit sirtuins, nicotinic acid doesn't. Different tissues in our bodies may need different NAD precursors:

“It should be realized that not every cell is capable of converting each NAD+ precursor to NAD+ at all times. Exp<b></b>ression of the eight step de novo pathway is required to utilize trp. Exp<b></b>ression of the Nampt pathway is required to utilize Nam. Exp<b></b>ression of either the Nrk pathway or nucleoside phosphorylase and the Nampt pathway is required to utilize NR. Finally, exp<b></b>ression of the Preiss-Handler pathway is required to utilize Na. Because tissue and cell type specific enzyme exp<b></b>ression differences exist, the precursors are differentially utilized in the gut, brain, blood, and organs. Understanding the unique aspects of metabolism of each precursor is necessary to define the mechanisms underlying the physiological effects and side effects of each. (…)”

“Classical feeding studies showed that exogenously added Na is a better NAD+ precursor than Nam in liver, intestine (16), and kidney (50). Similarly, rats fed Na showed elevated levels of NAD+ in the heart and Sidney in addition to blood and liver, which are sites of Na and Nam utilization (41). Classical studies have been corroborated by a recent report that mouse Naprt1 is expressed in intestine, liver, kidney, and heart. In addition, human Sidney cell lines are able to use Na to increase intracellular NAD + concentration in a manner that depends on the NAPRT1 gene.”

Nicotinic Acid, Nicotinamide, and Nicotinamide Riboside: A Molecular Evaluation of NAD+ Precursor Vitamins in Human Nutrition
Annual Review of Nutrition, Vol. 28: 115-130. Katrina L. Bogan and Charles Brenner

[Geoffrey1]

A Pharmaceutical company in Xi'an, China is producing it, maybe others. The traders you see advertising in Alibaba are rushing to acquire it. I've tipped some of them off that it is a likely hot product. There are a couple of them who are basically honest and have some ability to differentiate quality from fake. The competition should keep the price down.

Please give the name of this primary producer Maxwatt. I will contact them re: a prices for a group buy.
Thanks
Geoffrey

[dpaxton]

I am talking to the company in Xi'an. they don't beleive that a forum can put together 10kg's of buying power. I put it to them a few ways to do it and am waiting a response. It sounds like they want one person to pick it up and then do the split. We will see.

[midas]

I think it would be to everyone's benefit here if the company/suppliers name was published so we can take a look at the reputation they have before any commitment to actually buy any product.
It seems a little strange to me that this information is not given freely to anyone that is wanting to be included in this group buy. I also think it is imperative that we are able to have the quality of the product checked for obvious reasons.

[dpaxton]

OK. Like I said they were afraid of a bunch of small inquiries as they normally deal with factories. The head of sales is with me on the idea of expanding a longevity line and setting up a web site. The prices I put up earlier are thiers.

Calalog::

Attached Files

•  CATALOGUE 3.pdf   255.64KB   33 downloads
•  Nicotinamide Riboside.pdf   150.13KB   43 downloads

[seescaper]

I think there are several issues and hurdles here. First, the companies are overseas and unfamiliar to any of us. I am not sure how to check reputation. A domestic company with a good reputation that we are familiar with would be preferable. Second, if the company tests the product themselves, and they are intending to cheat us, then the test results will likely be forged. Since we cannot know the company's intentions, the test results would be unverifiable. So having the company test the product themselves is suspect. If we independently test it, we either must get a sample or buy the batch and then have a portion tested. If we get a sample to test we don't know if the rest is the same quality. If we buy the batch and then test it and it is no good, we have no way to get our money back, unless it is in some kind of escrow held by a third party.
Further, the amounts we would purchase in toto would not be huge, and thus not be deserving of a big price break.
I am wondering if some of the companies that sell reliable products such as RevGenetics, beyond-a-century (they carry lots of powders), LEF, swanson, etc. would be open to working with us to achieve our goals, with the incentive also being to expose the product to a wider market.

[APBT]

Here's an entire on-going thread related to NR that may be of interest http://www.longecity...-strikes-again/

Has anyone attempted to contact ChromDex https://chromadex.co...nts/NIAGEN.html
or HPN http://hpnsupplements.com/products/nr/ regarding a bulk purchase?

[dpaxton]

The email over to Anson Zhao and get some samples. Test them. I personally do not need a twenty to thirty times markup from the companies you mentioned. Give me the names of the US based synthesis houses and I will call them.

[Geoffrey1]

I think there are several issues and hurdles here. First, the companies are overseas and unfamiliar to any of us. I am not sure how to check reputation. A domestic company with a good reputation that we are familiar with would be preferable. Second, if the company tests the product themselves, and they are intending to cheat us, then the test results will likely be forged. Since we cannot know the company's intentions, the test results would be unverifiable. So having the company test the product themselves is suspect. If we independently test it, we either must get a sample or buy the batch and then have a portion tested. If we get a sample to test we don't know if the rest is the same quality. If we buy the batch and then test it and it is no good, we have no way to get our money back, unless it is in some kind of escrow held by a third party.
Further, the amounts we would purchase in toto would not be huge, and thus not be deserving of a big price break.
I am wondering if some of the companies that sell reliable products such as RevGenetics, beyond-a-century (they carry lots of powders), LEF, swanson, etc. would be open to working with us to achieve our goals, with the incentive also being to expose the product to a wider market.

LEF is already in process of including it in their product line. Will be over-pricesd I am thinking as is all their products. Sure that other companies will also be proceeding : lot's of buzz, Sinclair of course mega well-known and followed. Besides high prices will take months.

[Geoffrey1]

If they are a primary pharma producer they are not going to take the trouble to bait and switch us (re: analysis) for the 10 kilos we may purchase. Not at the risk of losing their reputation for that amount. But one can get significantly better quotes for >10 kilos than for one kilo of course.
I did check with my friend in HK; he has purchased standardized herbs from Shaanxi; says they are reputable FWIW.
Actually cheaper to test each order than think in terms of LEF (who purchase most of their material from China) etc.
Sounds like there will be a website; sure that 250 grams will be marked up relative to purchasing 1 kilo. However on our end 3-4 people can connect here purchase a kilo and one of the 4 could take delivery and weight out/ship to others. Or perhaps option to purchase 250 grams on the website DP mentioned. Either way having an analysis done i is not that expensive relative to the current price being charged ($50 for 60 125 mg caps).

DP: do you know the size of the company.? I do think they are the primary producer mentioned; I did contact them about a week ago and they also produce the USP grade material (this will be food grade however I am sure),

I reference size/ amount of sales since it is the small companies who screw around with faking CoA's etc. A larger company has too much to lose to do that: again especially for the amount we would be purchasing. If you look at $540 or so per kilo versus $50 for 60 125 mg caps that allows for each one or group actually to have their own tests done and still save a great deal. Eventually price will come down but will be months.

So DP any info on size of company??

And again thanks DP; appreciate your efforts.

[dpaxton]

I will email over on this. Amazed still.

[Metagene]

I want to get in on this. Amount TBA.

[dpaxton]

I got this all back during the night. Quote "

We are a professional manufacture of the nutrition ingredients supplier, including plant extracts and other nutrients, annually income is $40000000.
Yes, we produce all items in the catalogue, we have 13 lines
"

then the reference to thier site: http://pioneerbiotec...index.php?cid=6

So they are figuring out smaller amounts for pricing. The larger quantities are still good of course.

[midas]

I got this all back during the night. Quote "

We are a professional manufacture of the nutrition ingredients supplier, including plant extracts and other nutrients, annually income is $40000000.
Yes, we produce all items in the catalogue, we have 13 lines
"

then the reference to thier site: http://pioneerbiotec...index.php?cid=6

So they are figuring out smaller amounts for pricing. The larger quantities are still good of course.

Doing a search for what we are looking for from this company is a little confusing.

https://www.google.c...FHcHJhAfSpoDgDA

I am seeing prices of $900-$1000 per KG (minimum order 1KG)

http://www.lookchem....x?spid=10321557


And also finding $100-$200 per KG (minimum order 1KG)

http://www.alibaba.c...e-riboside.html

On the company's web page it says that they were established in 2003

http://pioneerbiotech.com/en/index.php

But if you look at the right on this page it says established in 2012...or am I missing something??

http://www.lookchem....x?spid=10321557