693 replies to this topic

[Geoffrey1]

I got this all back during the night. Quote "

We are a professional manufacture of the nutrition ingredients supplier, including plant extracts and other nutrients, annually income is $40000000.
Yes, we produce all items in the catalogue, we have 13 lines
"

then the reference to thier site: http://pioneerbiotec...index.php?cid=6

So they are figuring out smaller amounts for pricing. The larger quantities are still good of course.

Doing a search for what we are looking for from this company is a little confusing.

https://www.google.c...FHcHJhAfSpoDgDA

I am seeing prices of $900-$1000 per KG (minimum order 1KG)

http://www.lookchem....x?spid=10321557


And also finding $100-$200 per KG (minimum order 1KG)

http://www.alibaba.c...e-riboside.html

On the company's web page it says that they were established in 2003

http://pioneerbiotech.com/en/index.php

But if you look at the right on this page it says established in 2012...or am I missing something??

http://www.lookchem....x?spid=10321557

If you follow up with an email you will find the $500 /kilo is excellent: 150-200 turns out to be for smaller gram size orders----normal sop for Alibaba.. I followed up with a number of companies. Yes >>1,000-2000 for one kilo (closer to 2000 but maybe come in at $1500 after negotiating. If DP's prices hold we will come in close to $500 for a full kilo----sure it will be more for smaller quantities..

[dpaxton]

Finally got this in this morning. Smaller prices.

100g. $150
200g. $300
500g, $400
1000g $600

That is a high of 1.5$ per gram to .6$ per gram at 1kg. 50$ shipping for US and 60$ for the EU.

Anson Zhao
Sales & Marketing Director
Shaanxi Pioneer Biotech Co., Ltd
Email: sales@pioneerbiotech.com

Note that is from the forum as this is a trial for them. They are still not convinced a bunch of people from a forum have any buying power.

[nbourbaki]

Based on the pricing breakdown, I'd rather bite the bullet for the 1kg. What would be the next step and what is the plan for independent testing?

[Metagene]

This article is about the potential of Nicotinamide in treating atopic dermatitis.

https://docs.google....S05rZDlrV21sY2M

[Geoffrey1]

Finally got this in this morning. Smaller prices.

100g. $150
200g. $300
500g, $400
1000g $600

That is a high of 1.5$ per gram to .6$ per gram at 1kg. 50$ shipping for US and 60$ for the EU.

Anson Zhao
Sales & Marketing Director
Shaanxi Pioneer Biotech Co., Ltd
Email: sales@pioneerbiotech.com

Note that is from the forum as this is a trial for them. They are still not convinced a bunch of people from a forum have any buying power.

You mentioned a website being set up DP, with the ability to pay through paypal?? How does one proceed to place an order now that we have the prices?

[dpaxton]

My suggestion is to go ahead and email over to Anson with what you have in mind. They do take paypal. If anyone has questions of when the company started and what they do on a day to day basis, ask. It is all pretty easy.I am sure it will take some time for them to set up a retail website. In the mean time why not help them with some product ideas. It is rare to find a good synthesis house.

[medicineman]

so it's not a group buy, rather, an individual buy after finding decent prices? I'm lost

[borg389]

Anyone in the chicago area that wants to do a larger split?

[seescaper]

so it's not a group buy, rather, an individual buy after finding decent prices? I'm lost

I appreciate the efforts of everyone who is working on this but I am also getting quite confused as there are multiple prices, amounts, companies, payment methods, etc. and it is too much to sort out.

I would propose that anyone wishing to put something before the group, put all of the following in a single post, and the group can then discuss:
---The name of the company
---Their location
---Have they ever produced this compound before
---what else do they make and where can we look it up online and check reviews of the product and the company.
---the proposed purchase method: individual sales priced by volume on a website or a group purchase. if a group purchase, prices for fractions of kilos would be meaningless. as the group would be purchasing perhaps 20 kilos or more. we would need a price for the total purchase amount plus a total shipping cost. also, since this has been going on folks have been changing amounts so i suggest we all restate how much we want and get a total.
---shipping method---company ships to one group member who then disperses, or ship to each group member
---payment method---pay to one group member who then pays the company, or we each pay directly to the company.
---testing---how is the product to be tested and verified
If someone in the group has a store or website already set up for paypal or credit card purchases this would be a plus.
obviously we would all have to be trusting of anyone who would be handling financial arrangements,

[midas]

The main thing here whether we end up buying as a group and get 20+KG or whatever, is that the product is what it is supposed to be.
Why don't we all put in a few $ each in a pot and get someone on here that has either the ability or the contacts to and have it tested get some (100 Grams) from Dpaxtons source it is only going to cost 15 of us $10 each plus whatever it costs to have it tested.
If Dpaxtons source turns out to be legitimate then I personally have no problem dealing with them on a one to one basis as they are willing to send both small and large quantities to individuals, which would take a lot of messing around out of a large group buy and having to individually have it re-packed and sent out all over the planet.

All we need to know is....is the product what it is supposed to be and is the company we are thinking of dealing with legitimate?

[dpaxton]

The only real way to do that is get a third party lab company local In Xi'an. I gues I can see if Anson will send a sample of the current lot over once they are found and the lab gets paid. That might be good since they would probably be familiar with Pioneer.

[Geoffrey1]

The main thing here whether we end up buying as a group and get 20+KG or whatever, is that the product is what it is supposed to be.
Why don't we all put in a few $ each in a pot and get someone on here that has either the ability or the contacts to and have it tested get some (100 Grams) from Dpaxtons source it is only going to cost 15 of us $10 each plus whatever it costs to have it tested.
If Dpaxtons source turns out to be legitimate then I personally have no problem dealing with them on a one to one basis as they are willing to send both small and large quantities to individuals, which would take a lot of messing around out of a large group buy and having to individually have it re-packed and sent out all over the planet.

All we need to know is....is the product what it is supposed to be and is the company we are thinking of dealing with legitimate?

Agreed, takes the hassle out and the paypal is a major plus.

important to know there are 2 grades being sold. Food grade, used in supplements which is 60 per-cent NR (i think that is what NiaGen is starting from; unclear what they "do" to it in terms of their patent) and USP comparable grade which is what we are being offered through Pioneer (thanks to DP's efforts). The supplement material is going for around $1000/kilo, the USP material for about 3 times that, $1500 or more/kilo (10 kilo order: perhaps others can do better).Do not think we will be able to do better than the 600/kilo we have the opportunity to purchase for the USP material (i think the 99.4 per-cent would be called USP) With s/h $650. Do not think you will come close to that for this purity but if anyone does please do let us know.
DP did excellent on our behalf. Question is : will the material sent meet the specifications of the CoA posted a few days ago. The sales manager whose email was posted said "Yes, it is the material you will get,it will always match the certificate of analysis." FWIW Testing/lab analysis of course an excellent idea.

[midas]

The only real way to do that is get a third party lab company local In Xi'an. I gues I can see if Anson will send a sample of the current lot over once they are found and the lab gets paid. That might be good since they would probably be familiar with Pioneer.

I don't think asking the guy we are thinking of dealing with to find someone to test the product is such a good idea, personally I would want a completely independent test of the product.
I also do not think it is a good idea to let the guy selling the product know that the initial 100 Grams is for testing purposes.

Didnt someone on this thread say they could have it tested??

Dpaxton......Looking at the Pioneer Biotech PDF product list and also the Pioneer Biotech website I cant find Nicotinamide Riboside on either of them?

Please excuse my trepidation here, but I have a health condition that I cant take any chances with and I must be 100% sure what I am going to be taking is the genuine article.

[borg389]

Please excuse my trepidation here, but I have a health condition that I cant take any chances with and I must be 100% sure what I am going to be taking is the genuine article.

I don't think anyone could object to someone wanting to have this stuff tested before we buy large amounts of it. Not at all unreasonable to want to be sure of it. If we want to, as someone else suggested, each post a small amount of money towards 100 grams and get it tested, I'll contribute although I can't do a lot. But 100 grams is 150 plus 50 for shipping I believe, not to mention whatever it costs to test. Unless they are willing to sell a smaller amount, it's going to be expensive.Unless someone takes a chance and orders a supply, and we contribute to them so that they can have a few grams tested? I have no idea how much testing would run though.

Edited by borg389, 08 March 2014 - 07:00 PM.

[midas]

Please excuse my trepidation here, but I have a health condition that I cant take any chances with and I must be 100% sure what I am going to be taking is the genuine article.

I don't think anyone could object to someone wanting to have this stuff tested before we buy large amounts of it. Not at all unreasonable to want to be sure of it. If we want to, as someone else suggested, each post a small amount of money towards 100 grams and get it tested, I'll contribute although I can't do a lot. But 100 grams is 150 plus 50 for shipping I believe, not to mention whatever it costs to test. Unless they are willing to sell a smaller amount, it's going to be expensive.Unless someone takes a chance and orders a supply, and we contribute to them so that they can have a few grams tested? I have no idea how much testing would run though.

It was I who suggested getting the 100 Grams between us and having it tested....

I would do it myself but I have no idea of how or where I could get it tested....I was hoping that someone here who has had previous experience of such things would know somewhere that could get it tested..
I am pretty new to this forum and only found this place because I was researching NR so I really have no idea of how you would go about such tests..

Having said that, I just remembered that one of my friend's son is doing a chemistry degree at Oxford University, so I just sent him a message to see if I can have a word with his son and see if he can put me onto how/where I might be able to get the testing done......failing that I could always ask at my local pharmacy and see if the chemist knows...

I suspect that it may not be very easy as I would have thought whoever was doing the testing would have to be in a position that they knew all about NR, and as it is a fairly new thing that might not be so easy....Like I said, I don't really know much about this sort of thing so I may be wrong.

[borg389]

Please excuse my trepidation here, but I have a health condition that I cant take any chances with and I must be 100% sure what I am going to be taking is the genuine article.

I don't think anyone could object to someone wanting to have this stuff tested before we buy large amounts of it. Not at all unreasonable to want to be sure of it. If we want to, as someone else suggested, each post a small amount of money towards 100 grams and get it tested, I'll contribute although I can't do a lot. But 100 grams is 150 plus 50 for shipping I believe, not to mention whatever it costs to test. Unless they are willing to sell a smaller amount, it's going to be expensive.Unless someone takes a chance and orders a supply, and we contribute to them so that they can have a few grams tested? I have no idea how much testing would run though.

It was I who suggested getting the 100 Grams between us and having it tested....

I would do it myself but I have no idea of how or where I could get it tested....I was hoping that someone here who has had previous experience of such things would know somewhere that could get it tested..
I am pretty new to this forum and only found this place because I was researching NR so I really have no idea of how you would go about such tests..

Having said that, I just remembered that one of my friend's son is doing a chemistry degree at Oxford University, so I just sent him a message to see if I can have a word with his son and see if he can put me onto how/where I might be able to get the testing done......failing that I could always ask at my local pharmacy and see if the chemist knows...

I suspect that it may not be very easy as I would have thought whoever was doing the testing would have to be in a position that they knew all about NR, and as it is a fairly new thing that might not be so easy....Like I said, I don't really know much about this sort of thing so I may be wrong.

Ok. If you can find out from your friend's son, we can work out how to order and get it tested. Hopefully the testing company will need only a few grams.

[Hebbeh]

Currently working on getting this synthesized in the US. Will get back to you guys soon!

What happened to Nootropics Depot getting the group buy synthesized and tested rather than all this other unorganized nonsense?

[midas]

Currently working on getting this synthesized in the US. Will get back to you guys soon!

What happened to Nootropics Depot getting the group buy synthesized and tested rather than all this other unorganized nonsense?

I'm not sure "un-organised nonsense" is the best way to put that.

I for one am trying to organise something. It seems to me that a hell of a lot of people have showed interest in this and no one seems to be willing to step forward and make a move other than dpaxton (who is like myself another new member to the forum) with this supplier he has found.
I am very keen on getting this to move forward and am trying to make some sort of effort.
I am not sure who Nootropics Depot is on here (forum name) but I am assuming that due to the fact that he/she has not chimed in for a while has lost interest or cant deliver what we are looking for.
It would be much much easier if someone that was in the business could organise this for a small mark up in price but it doesn't look as though that is going to happen just now. So please forgive me for trying!

I am not holding my breath over my friends son but it is worth a try as he knows a lot more about this sort of thing than I do.

Maybe someone that knows who Nootropics Depot is on the forum can send them a message and ask them if they have made any headway on this, I would do that personally but like I said I dont know who to get in touch with??

like I said earlier I cant find NR actually listed on Pioneer Biotech's web site or on the previously posted PDF of Pioneer Biotech's products, so I am a little sceptical.
Also doing a search on google maps of the address for Pioneer Biotech I am not seeing a chemical plant on that street/road....Forgive me for being suspicious but I am not willing to send £450 ($650) to a company in China for a product that I am A) Not sure is the real thing and B) To a company that I am not sure actually exists.
This is why I have suggested that 10-15 of us put together and take a very small risk and see what comes of it.
Taking a gamble with our money is one thing, but taking a gamble with our health and well being is another, I cant afford to do either.

So, can someone please message Nootropics Depot and see if they are still in on this or not, please.

[Hebbeh]

Currently working on getting this synthesized in the US. Will get back to you guys soon!

What happened to Nootropics Depot getting the group buy synthesized and tested rather than all this other unorganized nonsense?

I'm not sure "un-organised nonsense" is the best way to put that.

I for one am trying to organise something. It seems to me that a hell of a lot of people have showed interest in this and no one seems to be willing to step forward and make a move other than dpaxton (who is like myself another new member to the forum) with this supplier he has found.
I am very keen on getting this to move forward and am trying to make some sort of effort.
I am not sure who Nootropics Depot is on here (forum name) but I am assuming that due to the fact that he/she has not chimed in for a while has lost interest or cant deliver what we are looking for.
It would be much much easier if someone that was in the business could organise this for a small mark up in price but it doesn't look as though that is going to happen just now. So please forgive me for trying!

I am not holding my breath over my friends son but it is worth a try as he knows a lot more about this sort of thing than I do.

Maybe someone that knows who Nootropics Depot is on the forum can send them a message and ask them if they have made any headway on this, I would do that personally but like I said I dont know who to get in touch with??

like I said earlier I cant find NR actually listed on Pioneer Biotech's web site or on the previously posted PDF of Pioneer Biotech's products, so I am a little sceptical.
Also doing a search on google maps of the address for Pioneer Biotech I am not seeing a chemical plant on that street/road....Forgive me for being suspicious but I am not willing to send £450 ($650) to a company in China for a product that I am A) Not sure is the real thing and B) To a company that I am not sure actually exists.
This is why I have suggested that 10-15 of us put together and take a very small risk and see what comes of it.
Taking a gamble with our money is one thing, but taking a gamble with our health and well being is another, I cant afford to do either.

So, can someone please message Nootropics Depot and see if they are still in on this or not, please.

Had you actually followed the thread, and from the context of my quote, that it should be obvious ParMatrix is the owner of Nootropics Depot and who has an established reputation in providing tested products and is apparently working on sourcing and testing Nicotinamide Riboside for cost as a community favor for forum members...rather than a bunch of new and unknown members all going in different directions supposedly attempting to source the compound from various unknown Chinese labs with no good plan on how to collect funds, test the compound for purity, and distribute the compound. That several new forum members are all randomly going in different directions when we were already putting a trusted plan together with a trusted vendor and member of the community and which could very well end up jeopardizing that established plan is, in fact, unorganized nonsense at best. Too many group buys on Longecity have ended badly recently for lesser reasons.

[dpaxton]

I am sorry if I am new and have found what was asked for in an orderly time frame. 25kg keg group buys from a new supplier is out of the question and thus you have the ability to pick up much smaller amounts for testing. You have no idea the back and forth to set this up. As far as testing goes my thought is that people start taking some command decisions on their own. No one had actually progressed on this in over a month other than some type of vague promises of setting up a synthesis house in the US.

I am sure it is very wise to wait a number of months for a wholesale house to do the work for you. You will pay four to seven times from the same supplier. That is actually a normal wholesale house markup before you then pay the ultimate of retail. It is your decision. Of course. Just find who makes the stuff. Make sure they are not rediculuos off the bat and then check them out.

If you want me to send people out on the ground in Xi'an to picture the place and then get hand samples with youtube videos, let me know. Arm chair whining will make you the butt of pricing forever. Has anyone grabbed there local phone book and called the testing labs and asked how they would test this and how much it would cost? I am still amazed. Sorry to bitch but when I see this I do not understand.

[pleiotropic]

I'm with Hebbeh. Nootropics Depot is the least riskiest option as it leverages their existing sourcing knowledge, they're able to organise testing and have payment and worldwide shipping established and we don't need to pay in advance with the risk of it falling through if scammed.

If anyone else still insists on covering the risks of doing their own group buy and wants a US based lab for analysis: Colmaric does independent testing for Health Supplement Wholesalers and some other companies that I've seen: http://i.imgur.com/yKBGxQm.jpg

[midas]

Currently working on getting this synthesized in the US. Will get back to you guys soon!

What happened to Nootropics Depot getting the group buy synthesized and tested rather than all this other unorganized nonsense?

I'm not sure "un-organised nonsense" is the best way to put that.

I for one am trying to organise something. It seems to me that a hell of a lot of people have showed interest in this and no one seems to be willing to step forward and make a move other than dpaxton (who is like myself another new member to the forum) with this supplier he has found.
I am very keen on getting this to move forward and am trying to make some sort of effort.
I am not sure who Nootropics Depot is on here (forum name) but I am assuming that due to the fact that he/she has not chimed in for a while has lost interest or cant deliver what we are looking for.
It would be much much easier if someone that was in the business could organise this for a small mark up in price but it doesn't look as though that is going to happen just now. So please forgive me for trying!

I am not holding my breath over my friends son but it is worth a try as he knows a lot more about this sort of thing than I do.

Maybe someone that knows who Nootropics Depot is on the forum can send them a message and ask them if they have made any headway on this, I would do that personally but like I said I dont know who to get in touch with??

like I said earlier I cant find NR actually listed on Pioneer Biotech's web site or on the previously posted PDF of Pioneer Biotech's products, so I am a little sceptical.
Also doing a search on google maps of the address for Pioneer Biotech I am not seeing a chemical plant on that street/road....Forgive me for being suspicious but I am not willing to send £450 ($650) to a company in China for a product that I am A) Not sure is the real thing and B) To a company that I am not sure actually exists.
This is why I have suggested that 10-15 of us put together and take a very small risk and see what comes of it.
Taking a gamble with our money is one thing, but taking a gamble with our health and well being is another, I cant afford to do either.

So, can someone please message Nootropics Depot and see if they are still in on this or not, please.

Had you actually followed the thread, and from the context of my quote, that it should be obvious ParMatrix is the owner of Nootropics Depot and who has an established reputation in providing tested products and is apparently working on sourcing and testing Nicotinamide Riboside for cost as a community favor for forum members...rather than a bunch of new and unknown members all going in different directions supposedly attempting to source the compound from various unknown Chinese labs with no good plan on how to collect funds, test the compound for purity, and distribute the compound. That several new forum members are all randomly going in different directions when we were already putting a trusted plan together with a trusted vendor and member of the community and which could very well end up jeopardizing that established plan is, in fact, unorganized nonsense at best. Too many group buys on Longecity have ended badly recently for lesser reasons.

OK, no problem, this "new and unknown member" will step back and let you get on with it.

I was only trying to help.

I am sorry if I am new and have found what was asked for in an orderly time frame. 25kg keg group buys from a new supplier is out of the question and thus you have the ability to pick up much smaller amounts for testing. You have no idea the back and forth to set this up. As far as testing goes my thought is that people start taking some command decisions on their own. No one had actually progressed on this in over a month other than some type of vague promises of setting up a synthesis house in the US.

I am sure it is very wise to wait a number of months for a wholesale house to do the work for you. You will pay four to seven times from the same supplier. That is actually a normal wholesale house markup before you then pay the ultimate of retail. It is your decision. Of course. Just find who makes the stuff. Make sure they are not rediculuos off the bat and then check them out.

If you want me to send people out on the ground in Xi'an to picture the place and then get hand samples with youtube videos, let me know. Arm chair whining will make you the butt of pricing forever. Has anyone grabbed there local phone book and called the testing labs and asked how they would test this and how much it would cost? I am still amazed. Sorry to bitch but when I see this I do not understand.

I for one would like to thank you for all your hard work on looking into this for us, I very much appreciate it...........I just need to be sure that what I am considering buying is what it actually says it is....

Please don't think I am being ungrateful for the effort you have put in here.

[Dstein]

Had you actually followed the thread, and from the context of my quote, that it should be obvious ParMatrix is the owner of Nootropics Depot and who has an established reputation in providing tested products and is apparently working on sourcing and testing Nicotinamide Riboside for cost as a community favor for forum members...rather than a bunch of new and unknown members all going in different directions supposedly attempting to source the compound from various unknown Chinese labs with no good plan on how to collect funds, test the compound for purity, and distribute the compound.

I would also like to add that nootropicsdepot/parmatrix originally looked into using Chinese suppliers, but didn't find any that he liked. I would be inclined to think that he had good reason for rejecting these suppliers.

[gearzo]

Had you actually followed the thread, and from the context of my quote, that it should be obvious ParMatrix is the owner of Nootropics Depot and who has an established reputation in providing tested products and is apparently working on sourcing and testing Nicotinamide Riboside for cost as a community favor for forum members...rather than a bunch of new and unknown members all going in different directions supposedly attempting to source the compound from various unknown Chinese labs with no good plan on how to collect funds, test the compound for purity, and distribute the compound.

I would also like to add that nootropicsdepot/parmatrix originally looked into using Chinese suppliers, but didn't find any that he liked. I would be inclined to think that he had good reason for rejecting these suppliers.

good to know thats why most of us are scared of chinese supplier

[seescaper]

Had you actually followed the thread, and from the context of my quote, that it should be obvious ParMatrix is the owner of Nootropics Depot and who has an established reputation in providing tested products and is apparently working on sourcing and testing Nicotinamide Riboside for cost as a community favor for forum members...rather than a bunch of new and unknown members all going in different directions supposedly attempting to source the compound from various unknown Chinese labs with no good plan on how to collect funds, test the compound for purity, and distribute the compound.

I would also like to add that nootropicsdepot/parmatrix originally looked into using Chinese suppliers, but didn't find any that he liked. I would be inclined to think that he had good reason for rejecting these suppliers.

good to know thats why most of us are scared of chinese supplier

I personally think that any supplier should not be doing this for the first time for us, but should already be synthesizing this stuff and have a public track record that can be reviewed by supplying references from other purchaser or online reviews. The exception would be a familiar supplier with an impeccable reputation. No one wants to spend hundreds of dollars on something that he/she has no clue as to its content or quality, and after all we are going to ingest this! The other issue about questionable suppliers is that there is no way to force them to return our money if we are scammed. What are we going to do, go to small claims court in China?
I would also wonder, if this supplement is so good, why multiple sources of distribution aren't springing up already. Such competition alone would bring down the price.
I understand we have been discussing this for several months now, but I would rather wait a lot longer than risk making a huge mistake.
As for testing, I question a chemistry student having the expertise. I would think that we should select the testing facility by reputation and have the company test it on their dime. It should only take a small quantity. Then, if it is legit, we can reimburse. Alternatively we could hold back 50% of the cost with final payment due after we test it. This would be a very big incentive to provide the correct product.

[midas]

As for testing, I question a chemistry student having the expertise.

No one was suggesting getting a student to do the testing, I suggested asking him as he might be able to put me onto a company or maybe even have it tested by a lab at Oxford University where he is a student....You know, Oxford, its a bit like Harvard only better

As far as waiting months for someone else to get off their butt and sort something out...Why!

Also keep in mind that 90% of supplements on the market use raw materials sourced from China, all that matters here is that it is what it is supposed to be and the right quality, not where it is manufactured.

I predict that we will be sitting round for ever and a day waiting for this to come to us and I still think that a few of us could put a few $'s each into a pot any buy 100 Grams and have it tested.

[midas]

http://arc-inc.com/i...vents&Itemid=93

[Jbac]

http://arc-inc.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102%3Anp2012&catid=43%3Anews-a-events&Itemid=93

it's radioactive lol

[midas]

http://arc-inc.com/i...vents&Itemid=93

it's radioactive lol

Oops, looks like I posted the wrong link....

[longevist]

I would not object to putting a few bucks towards a small order that would be tested. If I am not mistaken, there was someone in this thread that volunteered to test the material in exchange for a 100 grams or so of the product. Since nootropics depot rejected the Chinese suppliers, we should expect to pay considerably more than $600 per kg even if they would sell it to forum members at cost.